What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Jesse Williams speech at BET Awards (1 Viewer)

Eephus said:
This thread is a pretty good example of why Williams said "if you have no interest in equal rights for black people, then do not make suggestions to those that do"
Click to expand...
If someone wants to make a case for equal rights, they shouldn't make a blatantly racist statement when doing so.

 
TripItUp said:
The police brutality stuff is pretty bad...I thought it was an appropriate forum to raise awareness.

That being said, I prefer the MLK approach to the Malcolm X approach. 
Click to expand...
This guy has some explaining to do regarding HIS reality in this world pursuant to the reality he's demanding of others. 

White people Dont get it, white people shouldn't comment, ok. 

But this guy, for intents and purposes, culture aside, walks down the street and people would assume he's white. 

Now im a believer, as a white guy, that race isn't everything. The black guy dressed in the Armani is going to be treated better everywhere than the white kid with a wife beater, beard and camo shorts. So there is a lot of classism in racism.  

That said, straight ahead racism is alive and a factor in this world, without question. 

The fake black lady, Rachel dozeal, her situation fascinated me.  Probably as she was ridiculed by people who at the exact same point in history they were championing Caitlin Jenner as "brave". I was completely at a loss to find a difference. But one argument  that made some sense to me, was that Rachel dozeal could exist as a black person for a decade but in a few hours she could "appear" to be white, straight hair less makeup and in effect, turn it off. Make it go away. She never could or would firmly get the black expoerience because black people cant just do a magic wipe on their identity. 

So with that I think of this guy.   It might be disingenuous of the blue eyed brother to pick up the flag of militancy, since one could argue he's lived a white experience strictly in terms of appearance where and when apporpriate. 

 
McGarnicle said:
I guess somewhere in there is the attack on the entertainment industry's treatment of blacks, lack of roles & recognition etc. -- the same stuff we heard during the Oscars. But the phrase "this invention called whiteness" is extremely bigoted and offensive and undermines whatever message he was trying to convey. He should apologize and possibly should lose his TV gig which we all know is what would happen if a white actor made similar remarks about blacks. I won't hold my breath.
Click to expand...
Well, given that white skinned humans were originally a spinoff of black humans- I'm thinking that's where he's coming from. (notice I didn't say "race" there)

 
Smack Tripper said:
This guy has some explaining to do regarding HIS reality in this world pursuant to the reality he's demanding of others. 

White people Dont get it, white people shouldn't comment, ok. 

But this guy, for intents and purposes, culture aside, walks down the street and people would assume he's white. 

Now im a believer, as a white guy, that race isn't everything. The black guy dressed in the Armani is going to be treated better everywhere than the white kid with a wife beater, beard and camo shorts. So there is a lot of classism in racism.  

That said, straight ahead racism is alive and a factor in this world, without question. 

The fake black lady, Rachel dozeal, her situation fascinated me.  Probably as she was ridiculed by people who at the exact same point in history they were championing Caitlin Jenner as "brave". I was completely at a loss to find a difference. But one argument  that made some sense to me, was that Rachel dozeal could exist as a black person for a decade but in a few hours she could "appear" to be white, straight hair less makeup and in effect, turn it off. Make it go away. She never could or would firmly get the black expoerience because black people cant just do a magic wipe on their identity. 

So with that I think of this guy.   It might be disingenuous of the blue eyed brother to pick up the flag of militancy, since one could argue he's lived a white experience strictly in terms of appearance where and when apporpriate. 
Click to expand...
First, I don't think that anyone would mistake Jesse Williams as white.  Light-skinned, high yellow, or mixed; but not white.

Second, you can argue that a light-skinned black person who can "pass" can better see the preference they get in comparison to darker skinned black people.

Third, you note that it seems disingenuous for a blue eyed, mixed guy to pick up the flag of black militancy, but it's it's likely specifically because Williams is light skinned and blue eyed that he's militant.  He's trying to show his black bona fides and be accepted as authentically black.

My main problem with the speech was the double standard.  Here we are at a celebration of black art and success at the Black Music Awards on Black Entertainment Television.  The whole event was a celebration of blackness, and that's fine.  Great even.  Seems ridiculous under those circumstances, however, to rail against whiteness as a fabrication and negative aspect of society.

And the positive media reception of the speech evidences a further double standard because, assuredly, a white speaker giving a comparable take on "blackness" would be eviscerated by the media.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Gary Coal Man said:
First, I don't think that anyone would mistake Jesse Williams as white.  Light-skinned, high yellow, or mixed; but not white.

Second, you can argue that a light-skinned black person who can "pass" can better see the preference they get in comparison to darker skinned black people.

Third, you note that it seems disingenuous for a blue eyed, mixed guy to pick up the flag of black militancy, but it's it's likely specifically because Williams is light skinned and blue eyed that he's militant.  He's trying to show his black bona fides and be accepted as authentically black.

My main problem with the speech was the double standard.  Here we are at a celebration of black art and success at the Black Music Awards on Black Entertainment Television.  The whole event was a celebration of blackness, and that's fine.  Great even.  Seems ridiculous under those circumstances, however, to rail against whiteness as a fabrication and negative aspect of society.

And the positive media reception of the speech evidences a further double standard because, assuredly, a white speaker giving a comparable take on "blackness" would be eviscerated by the media.
Click to expand...
Today is my first exposure and experience with the guy, to me he looks white, it is what it is, in terms of my opinion. People are free to google and make up their mind. This doesn't look like a guy that walks down the street though and faced what vontaze burfict faces 

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTQ0MzAzMTM5M15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwMzE4MTU5NTE@._V1_UY317_CR126,0,214,317_AL_.jpg

as for points 2 and 3, I agree and have thought the same and I really don't have an issue with this general opinion with what he or anyone says.  But as I think he's entitled to his opinion, I'm entitled to mine and I think the narrow band with what he framed himself with opens him to criticism. 

I think there's a lot of value in BLM and their particular mission statement of addressing police brutality.  But I think their movement will unfortunately never be taken as seriously as maybe it should given the frequent tone of rebuke is that the movement wants so called "outsiders" (i.e. White America) to listen to them but there is to be no dialogue fostered and any questions will not only be ignored but are somehow insulting. 

 
Looks white to me.....

He also mentioned the names of some ppl who actually attacked police officers.... That's not a good idea regardless of color.

To kill Timberlake for saying "we're all the same"... Please.

 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/justin-timberlake-totally-missed-the-point-of-jesse-williams-bet-speech_us_5771217be4b0f168323a00c9

The entire point of Jesse Williams speech was that we live in a society where we are not treated as though we are all the same. It’s easy for Timberlake, no matter how well-intentioned, to dismiss a very valid critique by trotting out the same, tired, colorblind approach to race. He was essentially saying: “Realize I’m the same as you, be nice to me, then we can talk.” And yet, the onus should not be on black people to accommodate white feelings in order to “have a conversation.”

.....

So what "Onus" was on Justin Timberlake - To never sing in any way that might sound "Black"....  "Stop Appropriating Black Music"  Freaking ridiculous...

MAYBE ppl aren't ready to see the world "Colorblind".... Like I Do.... BUT, hopefully that day will come and it will be a much better world...

IMO Black Lives Matter has a place but, go one step too far and the whole thing just makes it all worse and breeds contempt.. You can't just point fingers, say whatever the hell you want, point fingers and then tell everyone else to SHUT UP and SIT DOWN...

Timberlake is right.

 
Gary Coal Man said:
Most white people agree with Timberlake, most black people agree with Williams, and never the twain shall meet.  Never.

Different people see the world differently.  No level of dialogue will change this.  Timely article.
Click to expand...


Most White People think we're all Humans and on this planet to Fight as One Together....Let's Group hug and work For a better earth

And most Black ppl think "SIT DOWN WHITE MAN...... You will never get what I see and experience... You steal our music and culture so just SHUT UP"

Ummm?????  Ok.

 
Eephus said:
This thread is a pretty good example of why Williams said "if you have no interest in equal rights for black people, then do not make suggestions to those that do"
Click to expand...
I guess the trump thread has been railroaded so this must be the angry white guys thread for now. 

 
Gary Coal Man said:
No, that's not what I'm saying.  

I'm suggesting that no matter which approach your kids take to race and no matter how well-intentioned they are, there will be some people calling them racist because they're white and, in certain circles, that's the fashionable thing to do these days.
Click to expand...
Who cares what 'some people' call me?  I do and say what I think is right and if you have a problem with that you can go #### yourself.

 
Did I really just watch a half white guy accuse white people of stealing black culture?

:loco:

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ok, I read his speech. I won't lie, my initial reaction was "What?" Now that I've had time to digest it, that hasn't changed. I guess I'm just not that sharp.

 
I'm confused about the Timberlake beef.  I don't follow him as an artist, but I assume he acknowledges his influences and has appreciation for the history of his music's genre.  What is he suppose to do?  Stay out of a type of entertainment that has been historically black? That doesn't seem right nor beneficial to anyone.

 
Juxtatarot said:
I'm confused about the Timberlake beef.  I don't follow him as an artist, but I assume he acknowledges his influences and has appreciation for the history of his music's genre.  What is he suppose to do?  Stay out of a type of entertainment that has been historically black? That doesn't seem right nor beneficial to anyone.
Click to expand...


Timberlake should know his place and say the right things or SIT DOWN..... 

And apologize to Janet???  What's that about, the nipple thing????

 
The cuitural appropriation thing is so stupid.   It would be like saying black people should stay out of the film business since it was created and developed by white people. 

 
Gary Coal Man said:
Most white people agree with Timberlake, most black people agree with Williams, and never the twain shall meet.  Never.
Click to expand...
I don't believe this for a minute.  People like to look at points in time and make huge generalizations.  Things are better and will just continue to get that way.  While we still have some really hateful racist people, most of them are slowly dying off and younger ones are much fewer than in years gone by.  Granted none of us will be around in 100 years but assuming the planet and humans are still around I would guess things will be just that much better.  We are 150 years from when slavery ended and 50 since segregation ended.  It's horrible that we aren't further along but we are making progress.

 
This guy is a real piece of work.  Wow.  What a jack ###.

Forget about the whole race thing.  Rich, pampered celebrities screeching about injustice or whatever celebrity-cause-of-the-week is what really turns people off.  We want to watch you act, but that's about it.  So accept yet ANOTHER ####### AWARD from ANOTHER ####### AWARD SHOW and shut the hell up.  Seriously, Hollywood throws so many award shows for themselves I'm surprised they even have time to film any shows.

Let's also not forget that preaching celebrities will NOT be giving anything of theirs up to get you justice or anything else for that matter. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Question to the forum: If you think white people are making progress to get past racism, do you think black people are making the same progress?

i don't think I encounter much racism, if any, in my real life. And I work in a very diverse downtown Baltimore. Maybe I'm just sheltered, but I only witness these things through technology. 

 
AAABatteries said:
I don't believe this for a minute.  People like to look at points in time and make huge generalizations.  Things are better and will just continue to get that way.  While we still have some really hateful racist people, most of them are slowly dying off and younger ones are much fewer than in years gone by.  Granted none of us will be around in 100 years but assuming the planet and humans are still around I would guess things will be just that much better.  We are 150 years from when slavery ended and 50 since segregation ended.  It's horrible that we aren't further along but we are making progress.
Click to expand...
We'll never get rid of "racism" for several reasons:

-- Society is ever broadening what constitutes "racism".  

-- Racial groups compete for power and control.

-- Some influential society shapers want racial animosity so as to be able to galvanize voting blocs.  

-- in-group bias is considered racist when practiced by whites, but in-group bias is natural.

-- Racial groups are reluctant to be honest about their own shortcomings and would rather blame others.

-- Etc.

"Things are better and will just continue to get that way."

Not according to polls* of both black and white Americans.  It's certainly possible, even probable, that people's perception of race relations does not match reality, but perception may matter more than reality in this particular area.

New York Times

U.S. News

Gallup

Williams' speech being widely praised by black Americans supports the idea that many black Americans don't believe race relations are getting markedly better.  (First two polls above.)

 
Last edited by a moderator:
This thread is focusing on the messenger rather than the message.  There have been two pages of ad hominem attacks on Williams for being too rich, not black enough, just a celebrity, not important enough to be a spokesman and not having a hot enough wife. 

I think his speech is in the tradition of Black self-determinism that has a lineage through Garvey and Malcolm X.  Critics have tried to dismiss Williams by making it about class and celebrity, even though his speech was about race.  I think he kind of went off the rails in his last section about cultural appropriation but the rest of it made it pretty clear that he doesn't care what we think anyway.

 
James Daulton said:
boots11234 said:
Does anyone else think of camping immediately whenever you see a post by MITYH?  Haha
Click to expand...
Camping's not exactly the first thing that comes to mind...
Click to expand...
Is that a monkey or a little boy in his avatar? 

For @boots11234 do you often see men in yellow hats talking to monkeys when you camp?  If so, please PM the GPS coordinates because I'm gonna send a drone over there to make sure that nonsense ends. 

 
Eephus said:
This thread is focusing on the messenger rather than the message.  There have been two pages of ad hominem attacks on Williams for being too rich, not black enough, just a celebrity, not important enough to be a spokesman and not having a hot enough wife. 

I think his speech is in the tradition of Black self-determinism that has a lineage through Garvey and Malcolm X.  Critics have tried to dismiss Williams by making it about class and celebrity, even though his speech was about race.  I think he kind of went off the rails in his last section about cultural appropriation but the rest of it made it pretty clear that he doesn't care what we think anyway.
Click to expand...
Why should we care what he thinks??? Hes a nobody

 
doowain said:
He's not just another actor popping off at the mouth.  At least he has some credibility.
Click to expand...
He has a college degree so that makes this rant credible?  I have an engineering degree, but if you relied on me to build a bridge you would fall in the water.

 
Eephus said:
This thread is focusing on the messenger rather than the message.  There have been two pages of ad hominem attacks on Williams for being too rich, not black enough, just a celebrity, not important enough to be a spokesman and not having a hot enough wife. 

I think his speech is in the tradition of Black self-determinism that has a lineage through Garvey and Malcolm X.  Critics have tried to dismiss Williams by making it about class and celebrity, even though his speech was about race.  I think he kind of went off the rails in his last section about cultural appropriation but the rest of it made it pretty clear that he doesn't care what we think anyway.
Click to expand...
I think there is a place for the BLM movement and a discussion about the police and public.  But when you relegate it to a strictly racial scenario, when there are many instances of aggressive or instances of "over-policing" that can and do go on amongst the police and people of all races, perhaps dominated by by african americans, I know empirically thats the case but not sure if the hard math necessarily supports that premise.  To take umbrage with "all lives matter" as many in the BLM movement do, ignores the destination malcom X evolved to. 

I'm willing to listen to this dialogue, as the dynamics of power vs. the proletariat fascinate me.  But when you limit and frame things simply to one race, then that, in my view, puts all the baggage of that on the table.  And I have been appalled for years by inner city violence.  I wish the black lives movement would maybe spread some of their understandable and justified rage against the police and apply some of that energy and focus to some of rampant and endless inner city violence.  Numbers of which, get reported as a blurb, like some minor league baseball score, every Monday or Tuesday.  7 dead, 35 wounded in chicago this weekend, 5 dead, 24 wounded, 11 dead 51 wounded, must have been a crazy weekend.  Its an ongoing American holocaust, and we, righteously, justifiably, kvetch when we have our Orlando's, our San Bernadino's, our Newtowns, and at least a dialogue happens.  This just goes on, and as uncomfortable as it may be for the black power structure, its generally black folks shooting other black folks.  

I don't in any way seek to justify or minimize police violence, but at the same time, we need to be adults and see the broader spectrum of a situation.  The violence of police is probably somewhat rooted in knowing the potential for violence in many predominantly black communities. 

If we magically removed police brutality in America tomorrow, what challenges would black people still face?  And is that the biggest issue facing their community?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
If you want to take control of your own culture stop worrying about what white people think.

Asians, Hispanic/Latino, Middle-Eastern an Indian people don't give a #### about white culture. They take what they want.

Of course their is racism.  Blacks are 12% of the population.  Just a numbers game.  Group dynamic.  Of course slavery a huge issue.  But a black person comparing themselves to someone back then is insulting IMO.

 
Interesting dynamic going on....

Twitter which is much more diverse than here, even My twitter... Wants nothing to do with a White person giving an opinion at all...

I see a lot of "Timberlake still doesn't get it"  "White people are closing their ears and eyes like always to this issue"..

Really not sure what Timberlake or any white person could say - Other than Just shutting up - Which IMO is ridiculous and a Major part of the problem.

We're supposed to not be Closed to the issue but, also just shut up..... 

 
Reaper said:
Interesting dynamic going on....

Twitter which is much more diverse than here, even My twitter... Wants nothing to do with a White person giving an opinion at all...

I see a lot of "Timberlake still doesn't get it"  "White people are closing their ears and eyes like always to this issue"..

Really not sure what Timberlake or any white person could say - Other than Just shutting up - Which IMO is ridiculous and a Major part of the problem.

We're supposed to not be Closed to the issue but, also just shut up..... 
Click to expand...
It's the reason that most sensible people will simply ignore this and their movement will continue to stall. 

 
Eephus said:
This thread is focusing on the messenger rather than the message.  There have been two pages of ad hominem attacks on Williams for being too rich, not black enough, just a celebrity, not important enough to be a spokesman and not having a hot enough wife. 

I think his speech is in the tradition of Black self-determinism that has a lineage through Garvey and Malcolm X.  Critics have tried to dismiss Williams by making it about class and celebrity, even though his speech was about race.  I think he kind of went off the rails in his last section about cultural appropriation but the rest of it made it pretty clear that he doesn't care what we think anyway.
Click to expand...
You really don't think his line about "this invention called whiteness abuses and uses us" was a bit much? Seriously?

 
Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument. The heated mind resents the chill touch and relentless scrutiny of logic. William E. Gladstone (Fmr British Prime Minister)

Nothing does reason more right, than the coolness of those that offer it: For Truth often suffers more by the heat of its defenders, than from the arguments of its opposers. William Penn (Old, rich, white guy...That also founded Pennsylvania)

Don't raise your voice, improve your argument. Desmond Tutu (anti-apartheid warrior)

When you have no basis for an argument, abuse the plaintiff. Marcus Tullius Cicero (you know...Cicero)

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Reaper said:
I see a lot of "Timberlake still doesn't get it"  "White people are closing their ears and eyes like always to this issue"..
Click to expand...
What is it exactly that white people aren't getting?  Does this guy (and others) honestly believe it was better for black people to live in 1620 or 1760 than it is in 2012 or 2016?  

 
Eephus said:
This thread is focusing on the messenger rather than the message.  There have been two pages of ad hominem attacks on Williams for being too rich, not black enough, just a celebrity, not important enough to be a spokesman and not having a hot enough wife. 

I think his speech is in the tradition of Black self-determinism that has a lineage through Garvey and Malcolm X.  Critics have tried to dismiss Williams by making it about class and celebrity, even though his speech was about race.  I think he kind of went off the rails in his last section about cultural appropriation but the rest of it made it pretty clear that he doesn't care what we think anyway.
Click to expand...
It should be focused on the messenger. He'd have us believe that he has struggled through hardship and become an activist for equal rights. But the fact is, he hasn't struggled one bit. His race has never held him back in any discernible way. I'd appreciate not being lectured by a guy who clearly came from privilege. 

 
Is the goal to see everyone equally and have everyone be colorless?  If that is the goal, then why is color always brought up?  It makes it really difficult to move forward and see people as colorless.  Personally, I try and treat everyone how they treat me regardless of color.  Do I have prejudices?  Of course I do because those are based on experiences I have had - good and bad.  But that doesn't mean I don't give everyone the benefit of the doubt until something changes my opinion of that particular person.

I also think that if people were able to take themselves a lot less seriously and be able to laugh at yourself (I do it all the time) then much of this tension would be diminished.

 
Life gets a bit easier when you stop giving a #### about the daily faux-outrage. Don't know who this guy is... DGAF about his opinion on anything any more than I would some random guy yelling on a street corner. :shrug:

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Man in the yellow hat said:
It should be focused on the messenger. He'd have us believe that he has struggled through hardship and become an activist for equal rights. But the fact is, he hasn't struggled one bit. His race has never held him back in any discernible way. I'd appreciate not being lectured by a guy who clearly came from privilege. 
Click to expand...
How much personal struggle would Williams have had to experience before you'd consider his opinion credible?

 
avoiding injuries said:
Question to the forum: If you think white people are making progress to get past racism, do you think black people are making the same progress?

i don't think I encounter much racism, if any, in my real life. And I work in a very diverse downtown Baltimore. Maybe I'm just sheltered, but I only witness these things through technology. 
Click to expand...
From my perspective...no.

I've referenced it many times on this board in various threads.  I have hundreds of black friends on Facebook from my school days in VA.

Every single remotely racial topic seems to have the same type of posts from my old friends.

Cosby is innocent..."they" just mad a black man was about to buy the network.

Michael was killed cause "they" didn't want him owning Sony and the Beatles.

Why can't "they" leave OJ alone...now they planting knives from 20 years ago.

Endless posts of those same guys referenced in this speech and how white America is hunting the black man.

White people keeping all the Oscars for themselves.

It goes on and on...it's mind-boggling how racism is at the forefront of every post...yet the examples are the most flawed ill-reasoned examples you could imagine.

When finally, I can't fathom the depths any longer and muster up the courage to question the logic...for example, how Cosby can be so well embraced and defended by these women even after what he did...I'm roundly dismissed or silenced.  I'm told it's this big conspiracy.  I try to reason with them and even cite how he admitted under oath of sealed testimony that he drugged young women for sex...I'm then unfriended or by the responses you can see that this relevation is news to them.  It's readily apparent that they're getting their news from sensational headlines and skewed views and not even hearing half the story, much less the entire sordid tale.

I'm saying...from my point of view...the race relations have gotten worse of late.  The last ten years or so have emboldened these fringe beliefs and it seems like more and more of the black community is rallying behind some of the most racist notions imaginable...completely devoid of reasoned thought.

Just look at Timberlake.  Dude tweeted how he supports this idiot's speech and is immediately turned on because he's white and is misappropriating and benefitting from black culture.

It's more us-them mentality lately in black society and because very few in the media are calling it on the carpet for its prejudiced tones...it's increasing and spreading.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Cjw_55106
2016 Emmy Awards
Replies
7
Views
476
Capella
Capella
GregR
Greg's Useless Trivia #50 - 100 questions (75 greatest hits, 25 new)
Replies
19
Views
3K
GregR
GregR
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
FWIW The NSA IS READING/SAVING ur emails/calls/texts etc
2
Replies
62
Views
5K
kevzilla
kevzilla

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top