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Jesse Williams speech at BET Awards (1 Viewer)

Let's start with "some".
How do you know that Williams hasn't had any actual instances where he was racially discriminated against?  Most people have.

There's also the issue I was raising earlier of perception being more important than reality on race issues.  Williams likely has perceived incidents that were not grounded in racial discrimination as being totally about racial discrimination.  Those incidents were very real to him.

Finally, everyone is credible on race issues.  We all live in society, we all have a race, and we've all had experiences touching on race.  Speak away.

 
Okay, my "some" comment was unfair.

Regardless, I think his message was bordering on incoherent rambling. Of course he has the freedom of speech but its not mandatory that your speech be taken seriously.

 
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Word is he's going to name his second child "kounta"...you know, like the movie. Unreal.

 
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It's more us-them mentality lately in black society and because very few in the media are calling it on the carpet for its prejudiced tones...it's increasing and spreading.
Only seems that way because you are on social media, which attracts the worst of the worst.

 
I've referenced it many times on this board in various threads.  I have hundreds of black friends on Facebook from my school days in VA.

Every single remotely racial topic seems to have the same type of posts from my old friends.

Cosby is innocent..."they" just mad a black man was about to buy the network.

Michael was killed cause "they" didn't want him owning Sony and the Beatles.

Why can't "they" leave OJ alone...now they planting knives from 20 years ago.

Endless posts of those same guys referenced in this speech and how white America is hunting the black man.

White people keeping all the Oscars for themselves.

It goes on and on...it's mind-boggling how racism is at the forefront of every post...yet the examples are the most flawed ill-reasoned examples you could imagine.
Yep, I have a similar experience and can attest that this is 100% true.  

For the disbelievers, try this out:  Add black news sites like The Grio, The Root, and News One to your newsfeed.  Look at the most liked comments on each post, and they're all the exact examples tdoss gave or are in a same vein.  Commenters taking contrary positions are often ridiculed as an Uncle Tom or coon.

 
From my perspective...no.

I've referenced it many times on this board in various threads.  I have hundreds of black friends on Facebook from my school days in VA.

Every single remotely racial topic seems to have the same type of posts from my old friends.

Cosby is innocent..."they" just mad a black man was about to buy the network.

Michael was killed cause "they" didn't want him owning Sony and the Beatles.

Why can't "they" leave OJ alone...now they planting knives from 20 years ago.

Endless posts of those same guys referenced in this speech and how white America is hunting the black man.

White people keeping all the Oscars for themselves.

It goes on and on...it's mind-boggling how racism is at the forefront of every post...yet the examples are the most flawed ill-reasoned examples you could imagine.

When finally, I can't fathom the depths any longer and muster up the courage to question the logic...for example, how Cosby can be so well embraced and defended by these women even after what he did...I'm roundly dismissed or silenced.  I'm told it's this big conspiracy.  I try to reason with them and even cite how he admitted under oath of sealed testimony that he drugged young women for sex...I'm then unfriended or by the responses you can see that this relevation is news to them.  It's readily apparent that they're getting their news from sensational headlines and skewed views and not even hearing half the story, much less the entire sordid tale.

I'm saying...from my point of view...the race relations have gotten worse of late.  The last ten years or so have emboldened these fringe beliefs and it seems like more and more of the black community is rallying behind some of the most racist notions imaginable...completely devoid of reasoned thought.

Just look at Timberlake.  Dude tweeted how he supports this idiot's speech and is immediately turned on because he's white and is misappropriating and benefitting from black culture.

It's more us-them mentality lately in black society and because very few in the media are calling it on the carpet for its prejudiced tones...it's increasing and spreading.
It seems like the influence of the internet and social media only encourage this blame game on both sides. There are plenty of white people with FB feeds full of stupid anti black, anti immigrant, anti Muslim things. 

 
need2know said:
Wtf is this guy talking about
No kidding.   The rant reminds me of the Damon Wayans In Living Color skit when he was the inmate giving speeches and trying to use fancy vocabulary words but his overall message made no sense.

 
People don't like to hear it and many brush it off as nonsense, but a certain (albeit probably small) population of minorities don't want racism to go away. Sadly, some prominent figures in the black community actually make a pretty good living because of the divide. 

 
People don't like to hear it and many brush it off as nonsense, but a certain (albeit probably small) population of minorities don't want racism to go away. Sadly, some prominent figures in the black community actually make a pretty good living because of the divide. 
Do you think Williams falls into this category?   He clearly embraces his blackness and is promoting a self-deterministic agenda but that's a long way from wishing racism to continue. 

 
Do you think Williams falls into this category?   He clearly embraces his blackness and is promoting a self-deterministic agenda but that's a long way from wishing racism to continue. 
I don't know the man, but I doubt he falls into that catagory. Most people don't. I was speaking in broader terms. 

 
It seems like the influence of the internet and social media only encourage this blame game on both sides. There are plenty of white people with FB feeds full of stupid anti black, anti immigrant, anti Muslim things. 
I'm sure there are...I'm just speaking from my perspective.

I have Christians and atheists who denigrate Islam.

I have Muslim friends who try to put a positive light to Islam or who have become very quiet of late.

I've got American friends who are anti-immigration.

I have pretty much all walks of life in my circle of friends.

Except the vocal anti-black contingent.  I'm sure they're there...but they're quiet about it.  I guess you could maybe spin the anti-Obama crowd as being somewhat racist but to be honest, it looks like they hate Hillary just as much and I never saw any of them post anything about his race specifically except a few questioning his origin story.

The only ones I've seen even remotely anti-black are my Mexican American friends.  It's weird how accepted it is in that group...but it's rare still.

But my black friends all seem to have free reign to spew hate-speech and post never-ending meme's with just the most outlandish falsehoods that only further divide the races.

 
Case in point...while we were on here debating blame and what should be done involving the kid who died by alligator at a Florida Disney resort...more than a few of my black friends were posting things like, "One white kid dies from an alligator and it's a big deal...but they've been using our children as alligator bait for years, and nobody's got nothing to say about that!"

It's a disturbing undercurrent that seems to pop up all the time.  Every day it's something.

Yesterday was something about a racist pool sign or something.  I don't know...just didn't have time to check into it.

 
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Am I allowed to be upset about the racial discrimination and "hate speech" I face on a weekly basis here in certain parts of Memphis? 

Just checking on the rules.  :D

 
Interesting dynamic going on....

Twitter which is much more diverse than here, even My twitter... Wants nothing to do with a White person giving an opinion at all...

I see a lot of "Timberlake still doesn't get it"  "White people are closing their ears and eyes like always to this issue"..

Really not sure what Timberlake or any white person could say - Other than Just shutting up - Which IMO is ridiculous and a Major part of the problem.

We're supposed to not be Closed to the issue but, also just shut up..... 
We should simultaneously not have an opinion but also show compassion. And maybe give him a decent acting gig because I've never heard of him and don't care what he thinks.  

 
But my black friends all seem to have free reign to spew hate-speech and post never-ending meme's with just the most outlandish falsehoods that only further divide the races.
You're part of the problem if you allow this stuff to go on from your 'friends'.

 
You're part of the problem if you allow this stuff to go on from your 'friends'.
No, he's not.

First, he said he did try to reason with several friends, and got unfriended.

Second, it's mainly futile to try to reason people when they are reacting emotionally.  It generally leads to allegations of racism against the white person trying to reason, and allegations of Uncle Tom-ism against a black person trying to intervene.  Sometimes you just want to laugh at stupid #### rather than get involved in a battle.

This is an actual message from a black acquaintance when I asked if he has tried to convert friends to his way of thinking:

"In all honesty, I have tried to convert my fellow blacks to my point of view; but mostly to no avail. Most blacks are so indoctrinated into an "us versus them" mentality that even in clear-cut cases of non-blacks being on the right and blacks being on the wrong, most blacks will side with their racial brethren regardless. Hyper-tribalism for most blacks is beyond extreme."

There are lot of black people out there like this guy.  Most remain silent because even they don't even want to jump into the feeding frenzy.

 
This is an actual message from a black acquaintance when I asked if he has tried to convert friends to his way of thinking:

"In all honesty, I have tried to convert my fellow blacks to my point of view; but mostly to no avail. Most blacks are so indoctrinated into an "us versus them" mentality that even in clear-cut cases of non-blacks being on the right and blacks being on the wrong, most blacks will side with their racial brethren regardless. Hyper-tribalism for most blacks is beyond extreme."

There are lot of black people out there like this guy.  Most remain silent because even they don't even want to jump into the feeding frenzy.
Have seen a lot of cases of this around this town. It's sad, but on some levels I can't blame them for not wanting to deal with the repercussions of trying to set people straight. 

A white buddy got hit in a predominantly black part of town. The other car ran the redlight and hit him. Of course, as soon as he got out of the car, black folks came out of the woodwork as witnesses that he ran the light. He of course was cited, took the financial hit, and had to deal with the fall out from his insurance carrier. 

I'm Pro-Choice and fairly liberal when it comes to social issues (pro gay rights, etc). However, down here in the uber-conservative bible belt, I've given up on trying to talk white people down from ignorant positions because it's the majority here. So I generally just avoid the situations or extricate myself from them.  In that regard it's hard to blame black folks who don't have the desire to stand up to the ignorant among them. 

 
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I could live with his comments. I just don't understand the backlash against Timberlake.  It screams someone looking for a fight. 

 
You're part of the problem if you allow this stuff to go on from your 'friends'.
I look at it like this...everyone has their right to their opinion.  If they're not actually threatening anyone...then whatever...

Every now and then I'll climb out on that limb and question the thinking and like I said, I'm either deleted, ignored or just talked over.  I like to think that every now and then I've reached one of them to pull them back from that ledge.

Also, we're talking about "friends" on FB that are 2500 miles away and we haven't seen each other in 20+ years since high school.

Lastly...like I said...I'm for letting people speak their minds.  It helps me better understand the different mentalities and also let's me know who might be imbalanced.

 
I look at it like this...everyone has their right to their opinion.  If they're not actually threatening anyone...then whatever...

Every now and then I'll climb out on that limb and question the thinking and like I said, I'm either deleted, ignored or just talked over.  I like to think that every now and then I've reached one of them to pull them back from that ledge.

Also, we're talking about "friends" on FB that are 2500 miles away and we haven't seen each other in 20+ years since high school.

Lastly...like I said...I'm for letting people speak their minds.  It helps me better understand the different mentalities and also let's me know who might be imbalanced.
You're not part of the problem. You're a normal person. HTH

 
I could live with his comments. I just don't understand the backlash against Timberlake.  It screams someone looking for a fight. 
He stole the black peoples' music - this aggression will not stand, man!  That's it - we're taking back white people music from Hootie.

 
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I could live with his comments. I just don't understand the backlash against Timberlake.  It screams someone looking for a fight. 
It's becoming evident that many of them just hate/distrust white people period, and aren't looking for any kind of reconciliation or common understanding. My stance is, I do my best to be open and friendly to everyone I meet until they give me a reason not to be. I don't participate in oppression. I'm just one guy trying to navigate this world like anyone. If someone wants to tell me that's not enough, and I'll never "get it" because I could never understand what it's like to be black in America...okay, I can accept that, but I guess that means I'm the enemy no matter what, just because I'm white? So, you don't really want me to try to be friendly and accepting because obviously I'm being phony and should just admit it already? I don't get the ultimate point that is being made, other than you hate me because I'm white. That's the message I'm getting from a lot of the BLM crowd. It's not just about police reform, or raising awareness. It's the black equivalent of the Trump movement -- a safe space for being openly racist.

 
McGarnicle said:
It's becoming evident that many of them just hate/distrust white people period, and aren't looking for any kind of reconciliation or common understanding. My stance is, I do my best to be open and friendly to everyone I meet until they give me a reason not to be. I don't participate in oppression. I'm just one guy trying to navigate this world like anyone. If someone wants to tell me that's not enough, and I'll never "get it" because I could never understand what it's like to be black in America...okay, I can accept that, but I guess that means I'm the enemy no matter what, just because I'm white? So, you don't really want me to try to be friendly and accepting because obviously I'm being phony and should just admit it already? I don't get the ultimate point that is being made, other than you hate me because I'm white. That's the message I'm getting from a lot of the BLM crowd. It's not just about police reform, or raising awareness. It's the black equivalent of the Trump movement -- a safe space for being openly racist.
You know, McGarnicle, I myself dabbled in black oppression once. 

 
I was critical of Jesse Williams but this dimwit makes me want to donate to the Black Panthers
What effect does this new DJ Khaled, Jay Z, and Future video have on you?

Full admission, I was watching the BET Awards and the BET After Party where they premiered that linked video.  The video struck me as even more Us vs. Them than Williams' speech based on the nature of the video and the homogeneous casting of the two sides facing off (minus the poser Khaled.)  

I didn't want to share the video earlier because I wanted to keep the focus on Williams' speech, but now that we're sharing other videos....

 
I don't think the state of race relations in this country has materially changed; there were huge advances from the 50s to the 80s but things have stagnated since.  The thing that concerns me now is everybody is shouting and refusing to listen, which diminishes the chance for meaningful dialog. 

 
I feel like her rant is going to make everything better and Mr. Williams will probably apologize in some type of public forum.  
Now that he knows Southern Democrats were for slavery during the Civil War, that'll change everything.

 
I don't think the state of race relations in this country has materially changed; there were huge advances from the 50s to the 80s but things have stagnated since.  The thing that concerns me now is everybody is shouting and refusing to listen, which diminishes the chance for meaningful dialog. 
I know its all anecdotal, but I know of at least a dozen openly racist people in their 60's and older.  I've maybe run across 1 or 2 people in my generation (late 30's) and younger who have ever made an openly racist comment.  I'd consider that progress.  Maybe there are more closet racists in the younger age groups, but I feel like what you see in the open is at least an indication of what is going on in private.

 
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I know its all anecdotal, but I know of at least a dozen openly racist people in their 60's and older.  I've maybe run across 1 or 2 people in my generation (late 30's) and younger who have ever made an openly racist comment.  I'd consider that progress.  Maybe there are more closet racists in the younger age groups, but I feel like what you see in the open is at least an indication of what is going on in private.
That's a fair point on an individual level.  Institutions have been desegregated which gives people more exposure to people of other races.  If you're working or attending school with others, human decency and institutional mores drive people to at least be civil.

My point was more about stagnation of societal attitudes about racial progress.  Black people expected the gains from the 60s & 70s to continue moving forward while White people can counter that they're not personally racist, there's a black president and MLK has a national holiday.  

 
Things have changed. I now look at black people and wonder how much they hate or resent me. I didn't used to do that. Progress. 
It's tough not to. 

Reminds me of a story my dad tells about when he was in the Air Force in the early 60's and felt like he had made friends with some of the black guys he was stationed with. That is, until he overheard those same guys at the bar talking about going into town to "kill whitey".

Still, whenever I start to feel like this, I remember this exchange from Gettysburg

Chamberlain: Tell me something, Buster... what do you think of Negroes?

Kilrain: Well, if you mean the race... I don't really know. This is not a thing to be ashamed of. The thing is, you cannot judge a race. Any man who judges by the group is a pea-wit.

 
McGarnicle said:
It's becoming evident that many of them just hate/distrust white people period, and aren't looking for any kind of reconciliation or common understanding. My stance is, I do my best to be open and friendly to everyone I meet until they give me a reason not to be. I don't participate in oppression. I'm just one guy trying to navigate this world like anyone. If someone wants to tell me that's not enough, and I'll never "get it" because I could never understand what it's like to be black in America...okay, I can accept that, but I guess that means I'm the enemy no matter what, just because I'm white? So, you don't really want me to try to be friendly and accepting because obviously I'm being phony and should just admit it already? I don't get the ultimate point that is being made, other than you hate me because I'm white. That's the message I'm getting from a lot of the BLM crowd. It's not just about police reform, or raising awareness. It's the black equivalent of the Trump movement -- a safe space for being openly racist.
:goodposting:

I actually have nothing against the openly racist group (BLM or Trump). They're full of hate, typically stupid, and make it easy for those of us with normal rational thinking to advance in life. People like this will make my life easier and the same for my children as long as we just avoid them, which is pretty easy to do.

 
I know its all anecdotal, but I know of at least a dozen openly racist people in their 60's and older.  I've maybe run across 1 or 2 people in my generation (late 30's) and younger who have ever made an openly racist comment.  I'd consider that progress.  Maybe there are more closet racists in the younger age groups, but I feel like what you see in the open is at least an indication of what is going on in private.
Either that or they know it isn't tolerated today and will get them fired, so they keep it to themselves. I hope it is the former though and not the latter.

 
What effect does this new DJ Khaled, Jay Z, and Future video have on you?

Full admission, I was watching the BET Awards and the BET After Party where they premiered that linked video.  The video struck me as even more Us vs. Them than Williams' speech based on the nature of the video and the homogeneous casting of the two sides facing off (minus the poser Khaled.)  

I didn't want to share the video earlier because I wanted to keep the focus on Williams' speech, but now that we're sharing other videos....
I don't really see anything I object to personally in that video. 

I've done a lot of work in rough neighborhoods, and work that required outreach in the community, from the pillars to the villans, preachers and gangstas and politicians and police. 

And for the toxic structure that I firmly believe our criminal justice is, and the notions of being institutionalized, we have to hope to find a balance of reality and practicality. 

There is a disconnect based on my experience, that should be part of the dialogue such as seen in the video.  Because I can tell you, there is a significant segment of the community, that while they don't like the incarceration rates as a whole, also want what everyone wants, a safe neighborhood to be in, to come home to  and to have their kids play in. 

What DO you do with some idiot that would open fire in public unless under absolute self defense?  What DO you do with someone who would rob and steal from people?  That's the hard duality at play in most of these communities, there might be a very healthy, well founded, mistrust of the police, but by god, like anyone else, they want them there when they need them.  I can also tell you as easily as a criminal gets instututionalized, so too does a cop working the beat in these neighborhoods. 

As for the message of the video, again, no problem, there's a long history of prison art work and the like and there's a universal message that resonnates in the concept (if its not musically my cup of tea).   I have no problem with Folsom Prison Blues any more than I have an issue with this. 

My issue with Jesse Williams is, in his construct, I'm not allowed to have an issue. 

But I DO look at it the same way I look at say, a Bruce Springsteen or a Jimmy Buffett.  At this point, Jay Z is a character, a persona, as much as Bruce or Buffett.  He has more in common with them than his target audience.  Now, they both draw on a well of experience and influence and background in these lifestyle to make their music.  But Jay Z in jail?  Come on.  Not happening, never would happen.  But Johnny Cash never did hard time either.

 
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Max Power said:
I could live with his comments. I just don't understand the backlash against Timberlake.  It screams someone looking for a fight. 
Well, considering he's got far more talent than almost anyone, I can see the jealousy.  

 
:goodposting:

I actually have nothing against the openly racist group (BLM or Trump). They're full of hate, typically stupid, and make it easy for those of us with normal rational thinking to advance in life. People like this will make my life easier and the same for my children as long as we just avoid them, which is pretty easy to do.
Good point. :goodposting:

 
Now I've got a handful of black friends posting this nonsense:

Statue of Liberty was a Black Woman Until Racist America Rejected It

Inspired by this thread...I called one out on the blatantly falsehoods behind this meme (or whatever you want to call it).

I mean, for God's sake...the image on the left is of a statue that was made in 2007 and is in the Caribbean.

It's constant...I don't know where these things are coming from but there seems to be an endless supply of race-baiting untruths being shared and posted.

She stood her ground a bit and said she can't find it right now but remembers a documentary that backs up the story of the Statue originally being a black woman.

I just told her that some of that may be true...although I can't seem to find a reputable source to cite on it...but to post this with that image on the left and act like it's truth is obviously misleading at best and is just another tool meant to stir up racial discord.


Not that I think she created it or even posted it trying to start static...I just think she bought into it and posted it to hopefully "educate" others...what bothers me is not the message, it's the fact that people don't even take a second to research it.  All the while, telling others, "research this...I did...and it's true!"

 
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McGarnicle said:
It's becoming evident that many of them just hate/distrust white people period, and aren't looking for any kind of reconciliation or common understanding. My stance is, I do my best to be open and friendly to everyone I meet until they give me a reason not to be. I don't participate in oppression. I'm just one guy trying to navigate this world like anyone. If someone wants to tell me that's not enough, and I'll never "get it" because I could never understand what it's like to be black in America...okay, I can accept that, but I guess that means I'm the enemy no matter what, just because I'm white? So, you don't really want me to try to be friendly and accepting because obviously I'm being phony and should just admit it already? I don't get the ultimate point that is being made, other than you hate me because I'm white. That's the message I'm getting from a lot of the BLM crowd. It's not just about police reform, or raising awareness. It's the black equivalent of the Trump movement -- a safe space for being openly racist.
GP man!

 
Have seen a lot of cases of this around this town. It's sad, but on some levels I can't blame them for not wanting to deal with the repercussions of trying to set people straight. 

A white buddy got hit in a predominantly black part of town. The other car ran the redlight and hit him. Of course, as soon as he got out of the car, black folks came out of the woodwork as witnesses that he ran the light. He of course was cited, took the financial hit, and had to deal with the fall out from his insurance carrier. 

I'm Pro-Choice and fairly liberal when it comes to social issues (pro gay rights, etc). However, down here in the uber-conservative bible belt, I've given up on trying to talk white people down from ignorant positions because it's the majority here. So I generally just avoid the situations or extricate myself from them.  In that regard it's hard to blame black folks who don't have the desire to stand up to the ignorant among them. 
Very true 

 

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