Jim Harbaugh: NFL's read-option rules flawed (1 Viewer)

[Biabreakable]

Jim Harbaugh: NFL's read-option rules flawed, biased

• By Kevin Patra
• Around the League writer
• Published: Sept. 6, 2013 at 06:29 p.m.
• Updated: Sept. 7, 2013 at 08:52 a.m

Jim Harbaugh didn't like Green Bay Packers linebacker Clay Matthews' "tough talk" about hitting read-option quarterbacks, so he contacted the NFL earlier this week.

The San Francisco 49ers coach said Friday he didn't care for the answers he got.


"I think it's flawed and a bit biased," Harbaugh said of the league's response to his concerns about quarterback hits.

Harbaugh then went on an approximately 5-minute monologue and discussion with reporters about the rule, which included him miming options for how QBs might have to show they don't have the ball.

"I'm not advocating that they don't hit the quarterback if he has the ball, but if he's in the pocket I believe there should be a strike zone." Harbaugh said. "Same strike zone that is given to the quarterback when he's in the pocket and throwing the ball. I feel like you give a license now to players to hit quarterbacks at the knee or in the head."

Harbaugh explained that he was concerned that defenders would hit quarterbacks in the knee or head with an excuse that they couldn't tell if the QB had the ball and could be considered a running back.

"By definition, a fake is a deception," Harbaugh said, continuing to voice his concern. "It is a deception, deceptive maneuver....Now are they opened up to being hit in the head and the knees, treated like a running back?...It seems like they would have more of an appetite to look at that, and they've said they don't have an appetite to look at it any further."

The strong ending suggests Harbaugh isn't going to let the issue fade away.

He did tell reporters his game plan wouldn't change or affect how he uses quarterback Colin Kaepernick. At the very least Harbaugh has ensured refs will be keeping a close eye on all the hits Kaepernick takes Sunday against the Packers.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000239471/article/jim-harbaugh-nfls-readoption-rules-flawed-biased

I think this is pretty comical. The read option plays will choose to leave a defender unblocked so that they can get a man advantage to the run play side, but the unblocked defender is not supposed to be able to hit the QB?

With the NFL rules that favor protecting QB above all others this is supposed to extend to read option as well? For further context the 49ers did hit Kevin Williams with a block to his knee when he was away from the play and in a defenseless position. This was a couple weeks ago. KW will be out week 1 because of this block to the knee, when the lineman could have hit Williams anywhere, but purposefully went at Kevin's knee. No fine was levied to the lineman for this hit, even though Jared Allen was fined $25k for a hit on a Bears lineman who was considered in a defenseless position. On this hit Jared Allen went high and blasted the guy, but he did not target the players head or his knee (I think the knee is much worse despite concussion talk recently).

So this proves the bias of the league in favor of offensive players, and apparently no concern for defensive players.

 

[Buffaloes]

why didn't he bring this up last year when Alex Smith was his QB?

 

[Arwald]

If you want the protection that a traditional pocket-passer QB gets, you have to play like one. If the QB plays like a RB he can be hit like a RB.

 

[mcd]

Ten years ago the NFL didn't protect the traditional pocket passer QB the way they do now. If the read option becomes more popular & the stars like RGIII/Wilson/Kaep keep getting injured, the NFL will gravitate towards protecting them more. There will be a window where they can be hit, but it will be much more narrow & the penalties will start hurting the defensive teams.

 

[Arwald]

Ten years ago the NFL didn't protect the traditional pocket passer QB the way they do now. If the read option becomes more popular & the stars like RGIII/Wilson/Kaep keep getting injured, the NFL will gravitate towards protecting them more. There will be a window where they can be hit, but it will be much more narrow & the penalties will start hurting the defensive teams.

A passing quarterback is in a defenseless stance because he has to throw the ball, in the read-option he still has a protective position similar to when he would run (he is faking that he might run), therefore he needs no extra protection. This is just Harbough trying to influence the Refs to call the game for him something I find a bit embarassing even for him.

 

[KingPrawn]

Jim Harbaugh is the biggest in the NFL

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Excellent coach. Giant whiner.

 

[hotboyz]

Ok I address the elephant in the room if Brady and Payten was running read option like that there would not be a rule that u can treat them like Rb. Now that these young guys mostly minority QBS are changing the game now we wanna allow the Qb to be hit!!

Now don't get me wrong I feel they should be hit but all Qb should be able to be hit. There absolutely is a bias against the young minority running Qbs

 

[Buffaloes]

There absolutely is a bias against the young minority running Qbs

Of this generation's QBs, who was the 1st QB to run the option on a regular basis?

 

[ImTheScientist]

Harbaugh..... the poster child for the forty-whinners.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlIq_kYuhI0

 

[Warrior]

So this proves the bias of the league in favor of offensive players, and apparently no concern for defensive players.

No, not really.

 

[DeaLerZ]

Ok I address the elephant in the room if Brady and Payten was running read option like that there would not be a rule that u can treat them like Rb. Now that these young guys mostly minority QBS are changing the game now we wanna allow the Qb to be hit!!

Now don't get me wrong I feel they should be hit but all Qb should be able to be hit. There absolutely is a bias against the young minority running Qbs

yea i agree... its a bunch of bs... all QB's should be treated the same.. i don't care what kind of play they are running

 

[footballnerd]

With two ex-niner QBs advising the Pack, Harbaugh trying to work the refs for whatever he can get. They'll be comin, run Kap run....for a TD!

 

[32 Counter Pass]

Jim Harbaugh is the biggest in the NFL

Good posting

 

[Biabreakable]

So this proves the bias of the league in favor of offensive players, and apparently no concern for defensive players.

No, not really.

Do you think they are held to the same standard? Are the rules being enforced equally regardless of the position they play?

Here is another example that has long irked me.

A defensive player is not allowed to strike a offensive player in the head with their hands. Deacon Jones made the HOF at least in part due to his signature head slap tactic.

Deacon Jones Supported Equal Rights When It Came to Head Slaps for Men (and Women)Deacon Jones was an all-time great football player. A Hall of Famer voted to the NFL’s 75th Anniversary team, Jones finished his career with 173.5 sacks. Many of those sacks came following Jones’ trademark move – the head slap. If you listen to Adam Carolla, you’re familiar with this clip of Deacon Jones talking about his head slap move.

“Anytime you go upside a man’s head – or a woman – then they have a tendency to blink they eyes. Or close they eyes.”

Unfortunately, the interviewer did not ask Jones to clarify that statement. Probably because no one thought about soundbytes like that back then, but also because Deacon Jones was not the kind of guy you ask to further explain himself. The NFL has since made the move illegal to use on both men and women.

http://thebiglead.com/2013/06/04/deacon-jones-supported-equal-rights-when-it-came-to-head-slaps-for-men-and-women-video/

The league has since outlawed this tactic and penalties as well as fines will be levied for any defender who does this.

Meanwhile an offensive player who is carrying the ball is allowed to stiff arm to the head and no penalty is called. I saw one penalty called against a ball carrier out of hundreds to thousands of instances of seeing ball carriers stiff arm defenders in their head.

The one instance (and there may be a few more, I don't watch all games) I did see of a penalty being called on the ball carrier for stiff arming to the head was where the BC grabbed the face mask and held on to it, driving the defender back gripping the face mask for over 2 seconds. If the blow is glancing, there is no penalty called at all.

When one considers the physics of 2 players going full speed in opposite directions towards each other, a blow to the head is not just going to make that player blink, it is going to impact the players head and drive it back causing hyper-extension of the neck, which anyone will instinctively try to change their momentum, and fall backwards in order to prevent their neck being damaged/broken.

Only a lawyer would argue that this is not proof of there being a double standard for offensive players compared to defensive players. Although my statement may have been too absolute, because I do think the league cares about all players. Just not equally.

 

[chinawildman]

Easy, just have Kaepernick assume a "fake passing stance" after a read-option handoff. He will still be on the move, but with his hands up around his chest pretending to pass. Assuming he is still in the pocket, he should be afforded the same rules protecting pocket passers.

 

[Rick James]

jesus christ shutup jim

 

[Donnybrook]

why didn't he bring this up last year when Alex Smith was his QB?

This year Kap's backup is Colt McCoy. Enough said.

 

[apalmer]

So this proves the bias of the league in favor of offensive players, and apparently no concern for defensive players.

No, not really.

Do you think they are held to the same standard? Are the rules being enforced equally regardless of the position they play?

Here is another example that has long irked me.

A defensive player is not allowed to strike a offensive player in the head with their hands. Deacon Jones made the HOF at least in part due to his signature head slap tactic.

Deacon Jones Supported Equal Rights When It Came to Head Slaps for Men (and Women)Deacon Jones was an all-time great football player. A Hall of Famer voted to the NFL’s 75th Anniversary team, Jones finished his career with 173.5 sacks. Many of those sacks came following Jones’ trademark move – the head slap. If you listen to Adam Carolla, you’re familiar with this clip of Deacon Jones talking about his head slap move.

“Anytime you go upside a man’s head – or a woman – then they have a tendency to blink they eyes. Or close they eyes.”

Unfortunately, the interviewer did not ask Jones to clarify that statement. Probably because no one thought about soundbytes like that back then, but also because Deacon Jones was not the kind of guy you ask to further explain himself. The NFL has since made the move illegal to use on both men and women.

http://thebiglead.com/2013/06/04/deacon-jones-supported-equal-rights-when-it-came-to-head-slaps-for-men-and-women-video/

The league has since outlawed this tactic and penalties as well as fines will be levied for any defender who does this.

Meanwhile an offensive player who is carrying the ball is allowed to stiff arm to the head and no penalty is called. I saw one penalty called against a ball carrier out of hundreds to thousands of instances of seeing ball carriers stiff arm defenders in their head.

The one instance (and there may be a few more, I don't watch all games) I did see of a penalty being called on the ball carrier for stiff arming to the head was where the BC grabbed the face mask and held on to it, driving the defender back gripping the face mask for over 2 seconds. If the blow is glancing, there is no penalty called at all.

When one considers the physics of 2 players going full speed in opposite directions towards each other, a blow to the head is not just going to make that player blink, it is going to impact the players head and drive it back causing hyper-extension of the neck, which anyone will instinctively try to change their momentum, and fall backwards in order to prevent their neck being damaged/broken.

Only a lawyer would argue that this is not proof of there being a double standard for offensive players compared to defensive players. Although my statement may have been too absolute, because I do think the league cares about all players. Just not equally.

Well, you're half right: here's a lawyer to argue that there's a world of difference between a stiff-arm and a head slap. An offensive lineman will get called for hands to the face the same as a defensive lineman. Your case is dismissed for lack of evidence.

 

[BaBastage]

Ok I address the elephant in the room if Brady and Payten was running read option like that there would not be a rule that u can treat them like Rb. Now that these young guys mostly minority QBS are changing the game now we wanna allow the Qb to be hit!!

Now don't get me wrong I feel they should be hit but all Qb should be able to be hit. There absolutely is a bias against the young minority running Qbs

Agree here. Full disclaimer, I have some bias involved as I'm a 49ers homer.

But it seems to me there should be a rule protecting all players that if you're not actively involved in the play, you can't be hit wontonly.

This would also eliminate the every year or two crushing of a player that was 'out of a play' and someone decides to knock them senseless. (Warren Sapp, I'm looking at you on the Chad Clifton hit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBpEIRaGq2U)

 

[BaBastage]

Harbaugh..... the poster child for the forty-whinners.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlIq_kYuhI0

Irony... sweet irony. That extra 'n' makes it pronounce "Winners" instead of "Whiners".

Even as a 49er fan, I agree with you though... lobby to change the rules in the offseason, but once the rules are laid out, learn to abide by them.

Keep in mind that your guy Wilson will be subject to the same being knocked around as Kaepernick.

 

[Patroclus]

Waaaah

 

[Biabreakable]

So this proves the bias of the league in favor of offensive players, and apparently no concern for defensive players.

No, not really.

Do you think they are held to the same standard? Are the rules being enforced equally regardless of the position they play?

Here is another example that has long irked me.

A defensive player is not allowed to strike a offensive player in the head with their hands. Deacon Jones made the HOF at least in part due to his signature head slap tactic.

Deacon Jones Supported Equal Rights When It Came to Head Slaps for Men (and Women)Deacon Jones was an all-time great football player. A Hall of Famer voted to the NFL’s 75th Anniversary team, Jones finished his career with 173.5 sacks. Many of those sacks came following Jones’ trademark move – the head slap. If you listen to Adam Carolla, you’re familiar with this clip of Deacon Jones talking about his head slap move.

“Anytime you go upside a man’s head – or a woman – then they have a tendency to blink they eyes. Or close they eyes.”

Unfortunately, the interviewer did not ask Jones to clarify that statement. Probably because no one thought about soundbytes like that back then, but also because Deacon Jones was not the kind of guy you ask to further explain himself. The NFL has since made the move illegal to use on both men and women.

http://thebiglead.com/2013/06/04/deacon-jones-supported-equal-rights-when-it-came-to-head-slaps-for-men-and-women-video/

The league has since outlawed this tactic and penalties as well as fines will be levied for any defender who does this.

Meanwhile an offensive player who is carrying the ball is allowed to stiff arm to the head and no penalty is called. I saw one penalty called against a ball carrier out of hundreds to thousands of instances of seeing ball carriers stiff arm defenders in their head.

The one instance (and there may be a few more, I don't watch all games) I did see of a penalty being called on the ball carrier for stiff arming to the head was where the BC grabbed the face mask and held on to it, driving the defender back gripping the face mask for over 2 seconds. If the blow is glancing, there is no penalty called at all.

When one considers the physics of 2 players going full speed in opposite directions towards each other, a blow to the head is not just going to make that player blink, it is going to impact the players head and drive it back causing hyper-extension of the neck, which anyone will instinctively try to change their momentum, and fall backwards in order to prevent their neck being damaged/broken.

Only a lawyer would argue that this is not proof of there being a double standard for offensive players compared to defensive players. Although my statement may have been too absolute, because I do think the league cares about all players. Just not equally.

Well, you're half right: here's a lawyer to argue that there's a world of difference between a stiff-arm and a head slap. An offensive lineman will get called for hands to the face the same as a defensive lineman. Your case is dismissed for lack of evidence.

Yeah I learned a long time ago not to argue with lawyers.

Is a stiff arm that contacts the face called as a hands to the face penalty consistently? Not from what I have seen.

 

[chickensoup]

Basically he wants a rule change to force the free release DE/OLB to HAVE to play contain instead of going for the play? Yeah not going to happen. It makes the read option too strong. Normally the guy who has the opposite side is one of the last to know who has the ball because they purposely disguise it. Until he sees the RB with it, he has to assume the QB has it and a rule like he wants is absurd

 

[Rick James]

The problem is, Harbaugh took Mathews' comments too far. All Matthews said was that a good way to stop the read option is to hit the QB. he didn't say they would do anything illegal or put a bounty on Kaep's head.

Both Harbaughs are incredible whiners.

 

[shive1]

Jim Harbaugh is the biggest in the NFL

"I want cake NOOOOOOWWWW!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zce-QT7MGSE

 

[Biabreakable]

Kind of what I was thinking wanting the cake and eating it too.

 

[chinawildman]

When does he ever say the defender shouldn't be allowed to hit the quarterback? Learn to read folks. A QB carrying out a play action fake is still protected and you can't go for his head or knees. Harbaugh is advocating the same protection be granted to a read-option QB carrying out the same fake.

 

[Biabreakable]

I am learning how to read. Thank you. I also heard what he said.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Nothing wrong with what Harbaugh said. It's the equivalent of a player raising his arms and looking for a flag after a play. Maybe it's not a penalty, but you have to act like it is. Maybe you get something in a close call.

Harbaugh is drawing attention to it now (before his first game) so the refs might take a closer look at it. And the fact that the refs might take a closer look just might get a defense to let up a little. If not, they're no worse off. I think that's all it is -- trying to give his team an edge for the season.

 

[Run It Up]

All these tears.

 

[Arwald]

When does he ever say the defender shouldn't be allowed to hit the quarterback? Learn to read folks. A QB carrying out a play action fake is still protected and you can't go for his head or knees. Harbaugh is advocating the same protection be granted to a read-option QB carrying out the same fake.

Those two plays are fundamentally different in that in the play action fake the QB is "faking" to not have the ball and going into a passing stance, where he is protected, while the read option QB is faking to RUN with the ball. In the read option the two plays are usually either the QB running with the ball or the RB running with it. As long as he is faking to be a RB, the quarterback can be hit like a RB.

Nothing wrong with what Harbaugh said. It's the equivalent of a player raising his arms and looking for a flag after a play. Maybe it's not a penalty, but you have to act like it is. Maybe you get something in a close call.

Harbaugh is drawing attention to it now (before his first game) so the refs might take a closer look at it. And the fact that the refs might take a closer look just might get a defense to let up a little. If not, they're no worse off. I think that's all it is -- trying to give his team an edge for the season.

I don't see the other 31 coaches doing it.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

When does he ever say the defender shouldn't be allowed to hit the quarterback? Learn to read folks. A QB carrying out a play action fake is still protected and you can't go for his head or knees. Harbaugh is advocating the same protection be granted to a read-option QB carrying out the same fake.

Those two plays are fundamentally different in that in the play action fake the QB is "faking" to not have the ball and going into a passing stance, where he is protected, while the read option QB is faking to RUN with the ball. In the read option the two plays are usually either the QB running with the ball or the RB running with it. As long as he is faking to be a RB, the quarterback can be hit like a RB.

Nothing wrong with what Harbaugh said. It's the equivalent of a player raising his arms and looking for a flag after a play. Maybe it's not a penalty, but you have to act like it is. Maybe you get something in a close call.

Harbaugh is drawing attention to it now (before his first game) so the refs might take a closer look at it. And the fact that the refs might take a closer look just might get a defense to let up a little. If not, they're no worse off. I think that's all it is -- trying to give his team an edge for the season.

I don't see the other 31 coaches doing it.

I don't think 31 coaches use read-option to that degree. But I recall Andy Reid complaining about Vick getting hit. I've heard coaches complain about a player being targeted-- even by the refs. You see it a lot in basketball, too. It's a mind game coaches play. They're just trying to get an advantage for their team. I think Harbaugh's doing the same thing. He knows if Kaepernick takes a big hit and gets hurt, their season is over. He's just trying to swing the odds in his favor.

 

[thecatch]

When does he ever say the defender shouldn't be allowed to hit the quarterback? Learn to read folks. A QB carrying out a play action fake is still protected and you can't go for his head or knees. Harbaugh is advocating the same protection be granted to a read-option QB carrying out the same fake.

Those two plays are fundamentally different in that in the play action fake the QB is "faking" to not have the ball and going into a passing stance, where he is protected, while the read option QB is faking to RUN with the ball. In the read option the two plays are usually either the QB running with the ball or the RB running with it. As long as he is faking to be a RB, the quarterback can be hit like a RB.

Nothing wrong with what Harbaugh said. It's the equivalent of a player raising his arms and looking for a flag after a play. Maybe it's not a penalty, but you have to act like it is. Maybe you get something in a close call.

Harbaugh is drawing attention to it now (before his first game) so the refs might take a closer look at it. And the fact that the refs might take a closer look just might get a defense to let up a little. If not, they're no worse off. I think that's all it is -- trying to give his team an edge for the season.

I don't see the other 31 coaches doing it.

I don't think 31 coaches use read-option to that degree. But I recall Andy Reid complaining about Vick getting hit. I've heard coaches complain about a player being targeted-- even by the refs. You see it a lot in basketball, too. It's a mind game coaches play. They're just trying to get an advantage for their team. I think Harbaugh's doing the same thing. He knows if Kaepernick takes a big hit and gets hurt, their season is over. He's just trying to swing the odds in his favor.

Exactly. He's calling attention to the issue now so it will at least be on the referees' minds if defensive players start trying to take cheap shots at Kaepernick. It is whining, no doubt, but Harbaugh is not concerned with what the Shark Pool's take on his comments is. (Phil Jackson did this same type of thing successfully in basketball for decades).

 

[MoveToSkypager]

First they came for the read option quarterbacks,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a read option quarterback.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Nothing wrong with what Harbaugh said. It's the equivalent of a player raising his arms and looking for a flag after a play. Maybe it's not a penalty, but you have to act like it is. Maybe you get something in a close call.

Harbaugh is drawing attention to it now (before his first game) so the refs might take a closer look at it. And the fact that the refs might take a closer look just might get a defense to let up a little. If not, they're no worse off. I think that's all it is -- trying to give his team an edge for the season.

Bad strategy though. The refs will have this ironed out quickly and Harbaugh will be left on the wrong side of this. If he wanted to pull this type of manipulation, he could have pulled the card the Spurrier used in ~1996. Just before the national championship game, Spurrier complained to the refs about Florida St hitting after the whistle. This influenced how the game was called, but it worked because it was the very next game, and they had to err on the side of caution on the fly. It wouldn't have worked if Spurrier complained at the beginning of the season because the refs and the NFL can consider this situation over a longer period of time.

 

[Man of Zen]

First they came for the read option quarterbacks,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a read option quarterback.

I'm just hoping the NFL allows defenders to light these guys up on game day, and not just on paper. Would like to see the league put the kibosh on this thing before the NFL finishes its transformation into the 1980's Big 8. Dullest. Football. Ever.

Thank God the NCAA let the Canes hit those QB's in bowl games, or we'd still be watching wishbones.

 

[pollardsvision]

Ok I address the elephant in the room if Brady and Payten was running read option like that there would not be a rule that u can treat them like Rb. Now that these young guys mostly minority QBS are changing the game now we wanna allow the Qb to be hit!!

Now don't get me wrong I feel they should be hit but all Qb should be able to be hit. There absolutely is a bias against the young minority running Qbs

I'm never opposed exploring the racial factor, if one exists, but I highly doubt it in this case.

Kap/Wilson/RG3 are very exciting and have a chance to be very marketable stars for the NFL, and I can't imagine the NFL isn't interested in protecting them as much as possible.

It seems like simply an issue of figuring out what's right and how much protection is possible. They'll get it figured out, though they'll always be harder to protect, no matter how hits after the hand-off are handled.

And I'm of thinking that the NFL will never allow hard hits on a QB clearly surrendering, so this is probably much ado about nothing.

 

[chinawildman]

When does he ever say the defender shouldn't be allowed to hit the quarterback? Learn to read folks. A QB carrying out a play action fake is still protected and you can't go for his head or knees. Harbaugh is advocating the same protection be granted to a read-option QB carrying out the same fake.

Those two plays are fundamentally different in that in the play action fake the QB is "faking" to not have the ball and going into a passing stance, where he is protected, while the read option QB is faking to RUN with the ball. In the read option the two plays are usually either the QB running with the ball or the RB running with it. As long as he is faking to be a RB, the quarterback can be hit like a RB.

Exactly. Which is why I suggested that after giving/faking the handoff, Kap just runs with the ball up near his chest (or pretends to) as if he will pass. That way he is still running, but is still technically a "passer", and as long as he is in the pocket, he is protected from head/knee shots. I have a feeling that's what we'll see today.

 

[pollardsvision]

When does he ever say the defender shouldn't be allowed to hit the quarterback? Learn to read folks. A QB carrying out a play action fake is still protected and you can't go for his head or knees. Harbaugh is advocating the same protection be granted to a read-option QB carrying out the same fake.

Those two plays are fundamentally different in that in the play action fake the QB is "faking" to not have the ball and going into a passing stance, where he is protected, while the read option QB is faking to RUN with the ball. In the read option the two plays are usually either the QB running with the ball or the RB running with it. As long as he is faking to be a RB, the quarterback can be hit like a RB.

Exactly. Which is why I suggested that after giving/faking the handoff, Kap just runs with the ball up near his chest (or pretends to) as if he will pass. That way he is still running, but is still technically a "passer", and as long as he is in the pocket, he is protected from head/knee shots. I have a feeling that's what we'll see today.

Yeah, it seems like this is will be a fairly simple issue.

Throw hands up or act like a passer, no hit.

Act like a runner, boom.