Joe Bryant...are you kidding? (1 Viewer)

[Liquid Tension]

I love the random shots and really like Joe's take on a lot of items. It is understood that nobody will see eye to eye on every issue, but this quote in random shots is absurd...

"Like everyone else, I love LaDainian Tomlinson. But those "system RB" whispers weren't quelled any Sunday. Tomlinson sat out the 2nd half with the Chargers holding a big lead. Michael Turner left with an injury and Darren Sproles looked like Jim Brown back there with 122 yards and two touchdowns."

System RB If by that you mean a guy who can do EVERYTHING at an extremely high level, then I am with you, but if you are using system running back in the traditional and most likely sense, then I call

Maybe you were just

Edited to add that maybe irresponsible was too strong, but I don't think it should have been written.

 

[Keith Lewis]

I agree with Joe on this one. Stick LT in Chicago and let's see what he can do.

 

[KoolKat]

He makes a valid point.

 

[Max Power]

I agree with Joe on this one. Stick LT in Chicago and let's see what he can do.

Win the SB

 

[AnonymousBob]

I have no problem with what he said. He tries to stir the pot ever so mildly every now and then. What he said is stupid, but irresponsible? C'mon, now YOU'RE the one that is exaggerating things.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Can you offer evidence otherwise?

(FWIW, there is nothing wrong with being a "system" runner. Just ask Emmitt Smith.)

 

[BoltBacker]

Yes.

Have some egg-nog and enjoy the holidays. Geesh.

 

[redman]

I agree with Joe on this one. Stick LT in Chicago and let's see what he can do.

LT was in a worse situation early in his career. He's already answered such questions.

 

[gman8343]

I wouldn't call it irresponsible. I would, however, call it incorrect.

 

[redman]

He makes a valid point.

Sure, who doesn't use the Detroit Lions rushing defense as a benchmark for running back/running game excellence?

 

[Keith Lewis]

Think about it, a couple years ago people were saying "LJ will go for 2500 yards rushing".....

Then the line falls apart/retires, Trent Green turns to mud and he's out of everyones top 5 and loads of people warning on him.

Do you really think if LTs top 3 linemen retired, Rivers goes down(not that he's great) and Volek comes in that LT is a stud. Don't kid yourselves.

 

[fantasyplayer]

I'm normally a believer in the "System RB" theory, but I think LT is one of the exceptions. He's been a Top 3 fantasy producer for 6 seasons, with multiple QBs and coaches. Not to menion he was a Top 10 RB for a few seasons when the Chargers were brutal.

Sure, his numbers would be worse if he were in Chicago. But Benson's numbers would be WAY worse than LT's if he were in SD.

 

[CrossEyed]

Darren Sproles got me into the championship game in a league that gives points for return yards. I never expected the rushing yards, but I'll take it.

And yeah, I think that was kind of a ridiculous comment. I'm not sure how you can watch the guy play and think he's a "system back".

 

[Keith Lewis]

I think Marshall Faulk in his prime > LT in his prime.

 

[KoolKat]

He makes a valid point.

Sure, who doesn't use the Detroit Lions rushing defense as a benchmark for running back/running game excellence?

He is saying that last week's game did not quell the rumors that had begun previous to that game. So the benchmark was apparently set earlier. I am not saying I agree with it, but it is a valid argument. I do not agree with half the things said on this board, but it does not mean they are irresponsible. They are simply opinions, and everyone has one.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Cam Cameron and Hudson Houck went from San Diego to Miami and Ronnie Brown was leading the league in yards from scrimmage at the time of his season-ending injury.

 

[Colin Dowling]

I think Marshall Faulk in his prime > LT in his prime.

I agree 100%.

 

[gman8343]

I think Marshall Faulk in his prime > LT in his prime.

two of the best that ever lived - one could make an argument either way. I'd find it difficult to belive for one moment that LT is a system back. Anyone who has watched him play knows how great he is.

 

[pizzatyme]

Irresponsible? The man owns this site. I'd say freedom of the speach on his own site's products falls well short of irresponsible.

Now calling him irresponsible, that IS irresponsible!

 

[mbuehner]

Every running back short of Barry Sanders is a system running back to some extent.

 

[Keith Lewis]

Every running back short of Barry Sanders is a system running back to some extent.

I'd add Earl Campbell and Gale Sayers to the list with Barry.

 

[KoolKat]

Every running back short of Barry Sanders is a system running back to some extent.

Love the sig!

 

[TD Ryan]

I think Marshall Faulk in his prime > LT in his prime.

all depends on what system LT-the system back is in.In Marty's system, LT > M FaulkIn Norv's system, Faulk > LTbut really they're all system backs because even M Faulk was greater than M Faulk as long as he was in the Martz system... which by the way, is the one that doesn't even run the ball, but who cares really... they're all just system backs.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

I think Marshall Faulk in his prime > LT in his prime.

I agree 100%.

Tomlinson is the better power runner and probably the better blocker as well.Faulk is the better receiver, probably faster, and more elusive.can't go wrong with either though.Thurman in his prime isn't too far down from these guys.

 

[Liquid Tension]

I wouldn't call it irresponsible. I would, however, call it incorrect.

OK I could pull out irresponsible as many people are getting caught up on that, but I think this was a little too much and is a bit irresponsible to even write that. In other words if Joe doesn't believe it at all then he shouldn't write it. if he does believe it then that is another issue.I am not someone who gets too uptight over items, but I thought this was far off base and felt the need to call it out. If you agree with Joe, no issue with me, I just think you are wrong.

 

[Tom Baker]

Yeah, maybe if San Diego had drafted Michael Bennett instead of LT, Bennett would now be breaking all those records playing in that, you know, system.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Joe didn't say that he believes Tomlinson is a system back. He said what happened with Sproles would give some ammunition to people who do. Seems pretty logical.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Think about it, a couple years ago people were saying "LJ will go for 2500 yards rushing".....Then the line falls apart/retires, Trent Green turns to mud and he's out of everyones top 5 and loads of people warning on him.Do you really think if LTs top 3 linemen retired, Rivers goes down(not that he's great) and Volek comes in that LT is a stud. Don't kid yourselves.

Yes, he is still a stud, because he does everything at the top level, however, he may not be as productive. He is still a stud until his skills erode. This is one of my issues with people overrating players who have great talent around them or underrating players with no talent around them.

 

[Despyzer]

Cam Cameron and Hudson Houck went from San Diego to Miami and Ronnie Brown was leading the league in yards from scrimmage at the time of his season-ending injury.

Houck was lured away from SD when Miami added Sabin. Tomlinson was one of the better RBs in the league when Cam was coaching at Indiana. What else ya got?

 

[jonessed]

LTs line was absolute crap his first few years and he still put up great numbers. The line this year has seriously underperformed and he still does well. Benchmarking against a beaten Detroit D in the second half is asinine.

 

[TommyGilmore]

Can you offer evidence otherwise?(FWIW, there is nothing wrong with being a "system" runner. Just ask Emmitt Smith.)

Because Troy Hambrick really lit the world on fire when Smith left. And Smith did nothing in Arizona.

 

[redman]

I think Marshall Faulk in his prime > LT in his prime.

That's debateable at the least.Here's how I'd break down the two:Speed: FaulkBreaking Tackles: LTOpen field running: FaulkRunning in traffic: LTShort yardage: LTReceiving: Faulk (very slim margin here)Pass blocking: LTDurability: LTI'd give LT the edge personally, and if I was in the proverbial 4th and short situation, I'd want LT in my backfield and not Faulk, and that's not even close. Faulk's faults meant that he lost a lot of value inside the five yard line. That's a pretty big problem.

 

[Liquid Tension]

He makes a valid point.

Sure, who doesn't use the Detroit Lions rushing defense as a benchmark for running back/running game excellence?

He is saying that last week's game did not quell the rumors that had begun previous to that game. So the benchmark was apparently set earlier. I am not saying I agree with it, but it is a valid argument. I do not agree with half the things said on this board, but it does not mean they are irresponsible. They are simply opinions, and everyone has one.

And what is valid about it? LT has great accelleration, balance, cutting ability, vision, agility, hands and runs with very good pad level for solid power for a guy with everything else. He also can block very well. What system is this NOT valuable in?

 

[Slinger]

Every running back short of Barry Sanders is a system running back to some extent.

Love the sig!

I'm going to borrow it because I agree with all my heart.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Cam Cameron and Hudson Houck went from San Diego to Miami and Ronnie Brown was leading the league in yards from scrimmage at the time of his season-ending injury.

Hudson Houck has been in Miami for a few years.

 

[biggyd]

Maybe the random shots article is not for you. Here are the opening paragraphs in case you missed them.

We do a lot of really insightful, thoughtful and serious features here at Footballguys with some very smart people thinking deeply for you. This is not one of those features.

This is a few pages of me downloading my goofy and dysfunctional mental hard drive that gets stuffed with way too many random items from 40 hours of watching and re-watching (God Bless TiVO) football every weekend.

 

[Slinger]

Joe's actually right. LT, while a really good RB, isn't even a Top 10 of all-time RB, but has been treated as such in the last 3 or 4 years. Go put him in Arizona, Chicago or Detroit and lets see how he peforms. A Top 10'er like Barry Sanders would do fine regardless. LT wouldn't.

 

[Despyzer]

Do you really think if LTs top 3 linemen retired, Rivers goes down(not that he's great) and Volek comes in that LT is a stud. Don't kid yourselves.

In 2002, Tomlinson's starting O-linemen were named Ed Ellis, Damion Macintosh, Tonio Funoti, DeVaughn Parker, and Jason Ball. His QB was an old and washed-up Doug Flutie.The result? 1,683 yards at 4.5 per clip, He also caught 79 balls and totaled 15 TDs.The lineup really wasn't much different the next year when he rushed for 1,645 at 5.3 per carry. He also brought down 100 catches and had 17 total TDs.Your premise was proved to be nonsense years before you ever spouted it.

 

[footballnerd]

I think any team will take LT over any RB out there. He's durable, fast and excellent vision which will let him thrive in any system. Only other back would be ADP, and he got nothing on LT's health record.

 

[Liquid Tension]

I think Marshall Faulk in his prime > LT in his prime.

I agree 100%.

Tomlinson is the better power runner and probably the better blocker as well.Faulk is the better receiver, probably faster, and more elusive.can't go wrong with either though.Thurman in his prime isn't too far down from these guys.

I would choose LT2 over Faulk (maybe this is a poll?). Faulk is a little more like Sanders from a running standpoint and was able to play in a dome half his games. While LT2 plays in nice SD, Denver, Oakland and KC are tougher road stadiums. I am surprised if many people feel that Faulk is better than LT2?

 

[Synthesizer]

He makes a valid point.

Sure, who doesn't use the Detroit Lions rushing defense as a benchmark for running back/running game excellence?

First, it was the Lions.Second, Tomlinson has been around long enough to have gone through multiple head coaches, offensive coordinators, offensive lineman and coaches, and quarterbacks. Too much has changed around him to call him a system RB.

 

[switz]

I agree with Joe on this one. Stick LT in Chicago and let's see what he can do.

People with short memories... do any of you recall how LT played BEFORE the Chargers were a good team?

 

[menobrown]

He makes a valid point.

Sure, who doesn't use the Detroit Lions rushing defense as a benchmark for running back/running game excellence?

First, it was the Lions.Second, Tomlinson has been around long enough to have gone through multiple head coaches, offensive coordinators, offensive lineman and coaches, and quarterbacks. Too much has changed around him to call him a system RB.

He was not so bad at TCU either.

 

[Davej626]

Can you offer evidence otherwise?

(FWIW, there is nothing wrong with being a "system" runner. Just axe Emmitt Smith.)

Corrected. And settle down Francis.

 

[laxiepoo]

Can you offer evidence otherwise?(FWIW, there is nothing wrong with being a "system" runner. Just ask Emmitt Smith.)

Emmitt is one of LT's heroes, and he's always respected that.I'm a huge chargers fan. Sure, he's got a great system here, good O-Line for running, fantastic Full Backs in Neal and Pinnock. But you stick a fantastic runner behind a crappy line or in a bad offense, and of course they'll struggle. See James, Edgerrin, circa 2006.As with everything in life, the truth is somewhere in the middle. The system has to be a good one for a RB to flourish, but the entire team needs to be successful to produce a runner with number like LT has generated over the past few years. You need good to great O-Line, QB, WRs, Defense, and ST.Denver for years has been considered a RB friendly system, producing RBs that are System Backs. Portis seems to be the exception, but take a look at Tatum Bell, Mike Anderson, and a couple others who put up 1000 yard seasons in mile-high country and couldn't get anything moving anywhere else.Bottom line, LT is a unique talent, not a System RB. His production IS directly related to a Good System, but his talents, vision, and dedication are what set him apart from putting pads and a helmet on me and letting me run behind that line and Lorenzo Neal.

 

[switz]

Yeah, maybe if San Diego had drafted Michael Bennett instead of LT, Bennett would now be breaking all those records playing in that, you know, system.

If I recall correctly, wasn't that the argument FOR drafting Bennett in your FF league over Tomlinson? Didn't MIN have a better offense, better OL, etc.?LT is no system RB, and people who think so are

 

[Norman Einstein]

But Benson's numbers would be WAY worse than LT's if he were in SD.

true, cuz he'd be on the bench

 

[Liquid Tension]

Joe didn't say that he believes Tomlinson is a system back. He said what happened with Sproles would give some ammunition to people who do. Seems pretty logical.

Ahhh, someone getting to the crux of the matter a little bit. However, Joe said, "But those "system RB" whispers weren't quelled any Sunday" and to me he is not excluding himself from that discussion and he not only doesn't distance himself, he fuels it by his comments and the backing it up.Honestly, I have never heard anyone call LT2 a system RB before...maybe that is why I am reacting to the absurdity of the comment. When I see a system RB, I view that as someone who is only succeeding because of the system they are in...and that is folly when looking at LT2.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Joe didn't say that he believes Tomlinson is a system back. He said what happened with Sproles would give some ammunition to people who do. Seems pretty logical.

Ahhh, someone getting to the crux of the matter a little bit. However, Joe said, "But those "system RB" whispers weren't quelled any Sunday" and to me he is not excluding himself from that discussion and he not only doesn't distance himself, he fuels it by his comments and the backing it up.Honestly, I have never heard anyone call LT2 a system RB before...maybe that is why I am reacting to the absurdity of the comment. When I see a system RB, I view that as someone who is only succeeding because of the system they are in...and that is folly when looking at LT2.

Who do you think of in the NFL as a system RB?

 

[switz]

Joe didn't say that he believes Tomlinson is a system back. He said what happened with Sproles would give some ammunition to people who do. Seems pretty logical.

Ahhh, someone getting to the crux of the matter a little bit. However, Joe said, "But those "system RB" whispers weren't quelled any Sunday" and to me he is not excluding himself from that discussion and he not only doesn't distance himself, he fuels it by his comments and the backing it up.Honestly, I have never heard anyone call LT2 a system RB before...maybe that is why I am reacting to the absurdity of the comment. When I see a system RB, I view that as someone who is only succeeding because of the system they are in...and that is folly when looking at LT2.

Who do you think of in the NFL as a system RB?

LJ is a system RB, and it's apparentPriest Holmes WAS a system RB in KC...

Mike Anderson, Olandis Gary, Rueben Droughns were system RBs in DEN, and it apparent

IMO Willie Parker is a system RB

and Emmitt Smith