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Joe Bryant on Brandon Flowers: "He's not the same player he u (1 Viewer)

aquafish82

Footballguy
Per the daily email update Volume 15, Issue #53 -- Sunday Night, June 22nd, 2014....

"

[ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ FOOTBALLGUYS VIEW ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ]

We'll see Flowers latched on with a new team before the start of training camp. He's not the same player he used to be, but Flowers could still serve as valuable veteran depth as a nickel corner."

I may not know as much about the Xs and Os as Joe Bryant, but since when do corners decline at the age of 28.

 
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they can decline at any age.

did you read the flowers thread --- bryant probably pulled that opinion out of there

I think asomugha was 30 when he fell off the map after everybody debated between him and revis as the league's top corner.

 
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It's all about scheme fit. Flowers was given some extremely difficult responsibilities in KC and because of it he gave up a lot of plays. He may not be a Pro Bowl caliber player, I'm not sure he ever was to be honest, but he is a quality starter in the NFL. He will start as the CB2 in SD and push Verrett to the nickel IMO. Verrett is best suited as a nickel in the NFL.

 
Hahaha, yeah, I think this ALL THE TIME when reading those blurbs. Joe is really quick on the draw with the "lost a step" or "not the same player he used to be". Joe seems like a good guy, but he needs to dial it back with those phrases if he's even the one writing them anymore. I've been reading these e-mails for years and quite often a player will get a better QB or better offensive line and suddenly return to being the player he used to be. Sometimes in the middle of the season. Funny how that works. But yeah, calling out Flowers at 28 seemed a bit extreme even for Joe, although I haven't followed Flowers so this could be one of those rare instances where it is correct to say it. Unlikely given his age, though.

 
Hahaha, yeah, I think this ALL THE TIME when reading those blurbs. Joe is really quick on the draw with the "lost a step" or "not the same player he used to be". Joe seems like a good guy, but he needs to dial it back with those phrases if he's even the one writing them anymore. I've been reading these e-mails for years and quite often a player will get a better QB or better offensive line and suddenly return to being the player he used to be. Sometimes in the middle of the season. Funny how that works. But yeah, calling out Flowers at 28 seemed a bit extreme even for Joe, although I haven't followed Flowers so this could be one of those rare instances where it is correct to say it. Unlikely given his age, though.
Yeah, though it's not just Joe. A lot of people will over-react to a bad season...

I find it kind of funny that the daily e-mails go the opposite way with Eli Manning. He had an atrocious season last year, but instead of him "not being the same player he used to be," it's all about the "stale" system last season and how the Giants will bounce back with a new OC. Which could be completely true, but perhaps the same mentality should be applied to Flowers...

 
Hahaha, yeah, I think this ALL THE TIME when reading those blurbs. Joe is really quick on the draw with the "lost a step" or "not the same player he used to be". Joe seems like a good guy, but he needs to dial it back with those phrases if he's even the one writing them anymore. I've been reading these e-mails for years and quite often a player will get a better QB or better offensive line and suddenly return to being the player he used to be. Sometimes in the middle of the season. Funny how that works. But yeah, calling out Flowers at 28 seemed a bit extreme even for Joe, although I haven't followed Flowers so this could be one of those rare instances where it is correct to say it. Unlikely given his age, though.
Yeah, though it's not just Joe. A lot of people will over-react to a bad season...

I find it kind of funny that the daily e-mails go the opposite way with Eli Manning. He had an atrocious season last year, but instead of him "not being the same player he used to be," it's all about the "stale" system last season and how the Giants will bounce back with a new OC. Which could be completely true, but perhaps the same mentality should be applied to Flowers...
Oh for sure. But I expect that out of the SP. Joe's been around long enough to know better and it's his profession. I'm almost positive Rivers was one of those guys who wasn't the same player he used to be, but I guess he made a deal with the devil last year... Andre probably got called out early last season, too, before finding himself again. I actually try not to read the "our view" parts. They seem like he's just going through the motions at this point, which I can't blame him for. I'm sure I'd get sick of trying to write those things every day for years on end and I'd start getting lazy with my catch phrases.

 
Hahaha, yeah, I think this ALL THE TIME when reading those blurbs. Joe is really quick on the draw with the "lost a step" or "not the same player he used to be". Joe seems like a good guy, but he needs to dial it back with those phrases if he's even the one writing them anymore. I've been reading these e-mails for years and quite often a player will get a better QB or better offensive line and suddenly return to being the player he used to be. Sometimes in the middle of the season. Funny how that works. But yeah, calling out Flowers at 28 seemed a bit extreme even for Joe, although I haven't followed Flowers so this could be one of those rare instances where it is correct to say it. Unlikely given his age, though.
Joe still does the daily emails. I don't know if he'd ever give those up.

The thing about Brandon Flowers is that we don't just have to use our own opinions. Obviously getting released this late in the offseason isn't ideal because a lot of teams have already made other plans or don't have enough cap space left, but the guy just signed a 1-year, $3-million contract. I think that's pretty damning evidence that 32 NFL GMs think he's not the player he used to be.

Now, GMs are wrong all the time (Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie basically signed a 1-year, $5 million deal before cashing in big this offseason), but in 2011 Flowers signed a 5-year, $50 million contract with $22 million guaranteed. It's an AWFUL long way down from there all the way to a 1-year, $3-million "show me" deal.

 
Hahaha, yeah, I think this ALL THE TIME when reading those blurbs. Joe is really quick on the draw with the "lost a step" or "not the same player he used to be". Joe seems like a good guy, but he needs to dial it back with those phrases if he's even the one writing them anymore. I've been reading these e-mails for years and quite often a player will get a better QB or better offensive line and suddenly return to being the player he used to be. Sometimes in the middle of the season. Funny how that works. But yeah, calling out Flowers at 28 seemed a bit extreme even for Joe, although I haven't followed Flowers so this could be one of those rare instances where it is correct to say it. Unlikely given his age, though.
Joe still does the daily emails. I don't know if he'd ever give those up.

The thing about Brandon Flowers is that we don't just have to use our own opinions. Obviously getting released this late in the offseason isn't ideal because a lot of teams have already made other plans or don't have enough cap space left, but the guy just signed a 1-year, $3-million contract. I think that's pretty damning evidence that 32 NFL GMs think he's not the player he used to be.

Now, GMs are wrong all the time (Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie basically signed a 1-year, $5 million deal before cashing in big this offseason), but in 2011 Flowers signed a 5-year, $50 million contract with $22 million guaranteed. It's an AWFUL long way down from there all the way to a 1-year, $3-million "show me" deal.
The deal he signed is more about the timing of his release than the decline in his play IMO. There just aren't teams out there who can afford to sign him for a lot of money at this stage of the offseason.
 
Hahaha, yeah, I think this ALL THE TIME when reading those blurbs. Joe is really quick on the draw with the "lost a step" or "not the same player he used to be". Joe seems like a good guy, but he needs to dial it back with those phrases if he's even the one writing them anymore. I've been reading these e-mails for years and quite often a player will get a better QB or better offensive line and suddenly return to being the player he used to be. Sometimes in the middle of the season. Funny how that works. But yeah, calling out Flowers at 28 seemed a bit extreme even for Joe, although I haven't followed Flowers so this could be one of those rare instances where it is correct to say it. Unlikely given his age, though.
Joe still does the daily emails. I don't know if he'd ever give those up.

The thing about Brandon Flowers is that we don't just have to use our own opinions. Obviously getting released this late in the offseason isn't ideal because a lot of teams have already made other plans or don't have enough cap space left, but the guy just signed a 1-year, $3-million contract. I think that's pretty damning evidence that 32 NFL GMs think he's not the player he used to be.

Now, GMs are wrong all the time (Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie basically signed a 1-year, $5 million deal before cashing in big this offseason), but in 2011 Flowers signed a 5-year, $50 million contract with $22 million guaranteed. It's an AWFUL long way down from there all the way to a 1-year, $3-million "show me" deal.
The deal he signed is more about the timing of his release than the decline in his play IMO. There just aren't teams out there who can afford to sign him for a lot of money at this stage of the offseason.
Possibly, but the Jets (for example), have a good deal of cap room and are in need of a starting caliber CB...and he was not even rumored to be on their radar. Maybe it is the Jets and not Flowers, but in a way the timing is not awful for him...he is the first big name CB cut after the draft, so he would technically be first in line for teams that missed out on CB in the draft...certainly would have been better for him if it were before FA opened, but this is not nearly as bad as an August cut after 3-4 other CBs have been let go.

 
Hahaha, yeah, I think this ALL THE TIME when reading those blurbs. Joe is really quick on the draw with the "lost a step" or "not the same player he used to be". Joe seems like a good guy, but he needs to dial it back with those phrases if he's even the one writing them anymore. I've been reading these e-mails for years and quite often a player will get a better QB or better offensive line and suddenly return to being the player he used to be. Sometimes in the middle of the season. Funny how that works. But yeah, calling out Flowers at 28 seemed a bit extreme even for Joe, although I haven't followed Flowers so this could be one of those rare instances where it is correct to say it. Unlikely given his age, though.
Joe still does the daily emails. I don't know if he'd ever give those up.

The thing about Brandon Flowers is that we don't just have to use our own opinions. Obviously getting released this late in the offseason isn't ideal because a lot of teams have already made other plans or don't have enough cap space left, but the guy just signed a 1-year, $3-million contract. I think that's pretty damning evidence that 32 NFL GMs think he's not the player he used to be.

Now, GMs are wrong all the time (Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie basically signed a 1-year, $5 million deal before cashing in big this offseason), but in 2011 Flowers signed a 5-year, $50 million contract with $22 million guaranteed. It's an AWFUL long way down from there all the way to a 1-year, $3-million "show me" deal.
The deal he signed is more about the timing of his release than the decline in his play IMO. There just aren't teams out there who can afford to sign him for a lot of money at this stage of the offseason.
Yeah, like I said, I'm sure that played a role. But still, we're looking at 1 year and $3 million dollars. Miles Austin got a virtually identical deal a month ago (1 year, $2m). Miles Austin. You can't just explain that entire gap by pointing to the timing. No one else in the entire NFL was willing to pay him more than $3m for a 1-year rental? A third of the league has more than $10 million in cap space. The Packers and Colts both have $13m. Could they not have used a CB? The Jets, Bengals, Browns, and Jags have over $20 million in cap space this year. None of them could have tossed $3m Flowers' way?

The NFL ATL crew was saying much the same thing- they were hearing Flowers' contract was so bad because there simply wasn't much interest in him around the league. Only a handful of teams even bothered contacting him. If he'd been cut after 2011, how many teams do you think would have been contacting his agent?

 
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It's all about scheme fit. Flowers was given some extremely difficult responsibilities in KC and because of it he gave up a lot of plays. He may not be a Pro Bowl caliber player, I'm not sure he ever was to be honest, but he is a quality starter in the NFL. He will start as the CB2 in SD and push Verrett to the nickel IMO. Verrett is best suited as a nickel in the NFL.
Who's the number one? I'm pretty excited if the Chargers have a CB better than Verrett or Flowers that I don't know about.

 
It's all about scheme fit. Flowers was given some extremely difficult responsibilities in KC and because of it he gave up a lot of plays. He may not be a Pro Bowl caliber player, I'm not sure he ever was to be honest, but he is a quality starter in the NFL. He will start as the CB2 in SD and push Verrett to the nickel IMO. Verrett is best suited as a nickel in the NFL.
Who's the number one? I'm pretty excited if the Chargers have a CB better than Verrett or Flowers that I don't know about.
I was assuming Wright would be the CB1 or LCB. I could be wrong. Either way I think Wright and Flowers are the starters with Verrett playing nickel.
 
It's all about scheme fit. Flowers was given some extremely difficult responsibilities in KC and because of it he gave up a lot of plays. He may not be a Pro Bowl caliber player, I'm not sure he ever was to be honest, but he is a quality starter in the NFL. He will start as the CB2 in SD and push Verrett to the nickel IMO. Verrett is best suited as a nickel in the NFL.
Who's the number one? I'm pretty excited if the Chargers have a CB better than Verrett or Flowers that I don't know about.
I was assuming Wright would be the CB1 or LCB. I could be wrong. Either way I think Wright and Flowers are the starters with Verrett playing nickel.
i didnt think wright was that great last year. i see it as verrett, flowers, weddle and maybe addae. one name to remember as well is steve williams.

 
Hahaha, yeah, I think this ALL THE TIME when reading those blurbs. Joe is really quick on the draw with the "lost a step" or "not the same player he used to be". Joe seems like a good guy, but he needs to dial it back with those phrases if he's even the one writing them anymore. I've been reading these e-mails for years and quite often a player will get a better QB or better offensive line and suddenly return to being the player he used to be. Sometimes in the middle of the season. Funny how that works. But yeah, calling out Flowers at 28 seemed a bit extreme even for Joe, although I haven't followed Flowers so this could be one of those rare instances where it is correct to say it. Unlikely given his age, though.
Joe still does the daily emails. I don't know if he'd ever give those up.

The thing about Brandon Flowers is that we don't just have to use our own opinions. Obviously getting released this late in the offseason isn't ideal because a lot of teams have already made other plans or don't have enough cap space left, but the guy just signed a 1-year, $3-million contract. I think that's pretty damning evidence that 32 NFL GMs think he's not the player he used to be.

Now, GMs are wrong all the time (Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie basically signed a 1-year, $5 million deal before cashing in big this offseason), but in 2011 Flowers signed a 5-year, $50 million contract with $22 million guaranteed. It's an AWFUL long way down from there all the way to a 1-year, $3-million "show me" deal.
The deal he signed is more about the timing of his release than the decline in his play IMO. There just aren't teams out there who can afford to sign him for a lot of money at this stage of the offseason.
Yeah, like I said, I'm sure that played a role. But still, we're looking at 1 year and $3 million dollars. Miles Austin got a virtually identical deal a month ago (1 year, $2m). Miles Austin. You can't just explain that entire gap by pointing to the timing. No one else in the entire NFL was willing to pay him more than $3m for a 1-year rental? A third of the league has more than $10 million in cap space. The Packers and Colts both have $13m. Could they not have used a CB? The Jets, Bengals, Browns, and Jags have over $20 million in cap space this year. None of them could have tossed $3m Flowers' way?

The NFL ATL crew was saying much the same thing- they were hearing Flowers' contract was so bad because there simply wasn't much interest in him around the league. Only a handful of teams even bothered contacting him. If he'd been cut after 2011, how many teams do you think would have been contacting his agent?
Austin got $300K guaranteed, Flowers $1.5mm, and Flowers can earn $2mm more in incentives this year- the contracts aren't virtually identical at all. It's also a pretty good situation for him to try and rebuild his value, so it's not a guarantee that no one else in the entire NFL was willing to give him more than he signed for.

 
It's all about scheme fit. Flowers was given some extremely difficult responsibilities in KC and because of it he gave up a lot of plays. He may not be a Pro Bowl caliber player, I'm not sure he ever was to be honest, but he is a quality starter in the NFL. He will start as the CB2 in SD and push Verrett to the nickel IMO. Verrett is best suited as a nickel in the NFL.
Who's the number one? I'm pretty excited if the Chargers have a CB better than Verrett or Flowers that I don't know about.
I was assuming Wright would be the CB1 or LCB. I could be wrong. Either way I think Wright and Flowers are the starters with Verrett playing nickel.
i didnt think wright was that great last year. i see it as verrett, flowers, weddle and maybe addae. one name to remember as well is steve williams.
Wright was arguably the worst CB in the NFL last year and definitely in the top 10.

 
It's all about scheme fit. Flowers was given some extremely difficult responsibilities in KC and because of it he gave up a lot of plays. He may not be a Pro Bowl caliber player, I'm not sure he ever was to be honest, but he is a quality starter in the NFL. He will start as the CB2 in SD and push Verrett to the nickel IMO. Verrett is best suited as a nickel in the NFL.
Who's the number one? I'm pretty excited if the Chargers have a CB better than Verrett or Flowers that I don't know about.
I was assuming Wright would be the CB1 or LCB. I could be wrong. Either way I think Wright and Flowers are the starters with Verrett playing nickel.
i didnt think wright was that great last year. i see it as verrett, flowers, weddle and maybe addae. one name to remember as well is steve williams.
Wright was arguably the worst CB in the NFL last year and definitely in the top 10.
I thought Wright was poor early but improved as the season went on. He was playing CB1 last year IIRC but maybe that changes.
 
Hahaha, yeah, I think this ALL THE TIME when reading those blurbs. Joe is really quick on the draw with the "lost a step" or "not the same player he used to be". Joe seems like a good guy, but he needs to dial it back with those phrases if he's even the one writing them anymore. I've been reading these e-mails for years and quite often a player will get a better QB or better offensive line and suddenly return to being the player he used to be. Sometimes in the middle of the season. Funny how that works. But yeah, calling out Flowers at 28 seemed a bit extreme even for Joe, although I haven't followed Flowers so this could be one of those rare instances where it is correct to say it. Unlikely given his age, though.
Joe still does the daily emails. I don't know if he'd ever give those up.

The thing about Brandon Flowers is that we don't just have to use our own opinions. Obviously getting released this late in the offseason isn't ideal because a lot of teams have already made other plans or don't have enough cap space left, but the guy just signed a 1-year, $3-million contract. I think that's pretty damning evidence that 32 NFL GMs think he's not the player he used to be.

Now, GMs are wrong all the time (Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie basically signed a 1-year, $5 million deal before cashing in big this offseason), but in 2011 Flowers signed a 5-year, $50 million contract with $22 million guaranteed. It's an AWFUL long way down from there all the way to a 1-year, $3-million "show me" deal.
The deal he signed is more about the timing of his release than the decline in his play IMO. There just aren't teams out there who can afford to sign him for a lot of money at this stage of the offseason.
Yeah, like I said, I'm sure that played a role. But still, we're looking at 1 year and $3 million dollars. Miles Austin got a virtually identical deal a month ago (1 year, $2m). Miles Austin. You can't just explain that entire gap by pointing to the timing. No one else in the entire NFL was willing to pay him more than $3m for a 1-year rental? A third of the league has more than $10 million in cap space. The Packers and Colts both have $13m. Could they not have used a CB? The Jets, Bengals, Browns, and Jags have over $20 million in cap space this year. None of them could have tossed $3m Flowers' way?

The NFL ATL crew was saying much the same thing- they were hearing Flowers' contract was so bad because there simply wasn't much interest in him around the league. Only a handful of teams even bothered contacting him. If he'd been cut after 2011, how many teams do you think would have been contacting his agent?
Austin got $300K guaranteed, Flowers $1.5mm, and Flowers can earn $2mm more in incentives this year- the contracts aren't virtually identical at all. It's also a pretty good situation for him to try and rebuild his value, so it's not a guarantee that no one else in the entire NFL was willing to give him more than he signed for.
Austin had a $300,000 signing bonus, but it's not at all uncommon for first-year salaries to be guaranteed, too. I tried googling, but I can't find if Austin's was. Even if it's not, his full 1-year contract is practically guaranteed for everything except for injury.

Flowers' incentives definitely fall under the "very unlikely to be earned" category. He needs to play in 92.5% of the defense's snaps, and the Chargers need to reach the AFCCG. Even setting aside how likely San Diego is to reach the AFCCG, Flowers has only appeared in 92.5% of his defense's snaps once in his entire career (2011). He'd have to stay fully healthy for all 16 games, he'd have to not come off the field in specialty sub-packages, and the Chargers coaches would have to call their defense straight (i.e. not reducing his field time by a handful of snaps in blowouts to save $2m against the cap). They're theoretically achievable and they give his agent a selling point when trying to spin the deal, but the real meat of his contract is the 1-year, $3m.

I actually think Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie is a pretty good comp. Aqib Talib also got a 1-year deal, although a lot of that was based on off-field issues. Rogers-Cromartie is a guy who was forced to sign a deal that was well below what he could have earned a few years prior because the bloom had come off the rose, so to speak. DRC wound up turning things around, playing marvelously, and proving the NFL wrong. He cashed in big this offseason as a result. Maybe Flowers will do the same thing. Still, I think it's fair to say that the NFL is skeptical about whether he's the same player he was a few years ago.

 
It's all about scheme fit. Flowers was given some extremely difficult responsibilities in KC and because of it he gave up a lot of plays. He may not be a Pro Bowl caliber player, I'm not sure he ever was to be honest, but he is a quality starter in the NFL. He will start as the CB2 in SD and push Verrett to the nickel IMO. Verrett is best suited as a nickel in the NFL.
Who's the number one? I'm pretty excited if the Chargers have a CB better than Verrett or Flowers that I don't know about.
I was assuming Wright would be the CB1 or LCB. I could be wrong. Either way I think Wright and Flowers are the starters with Verrett playing nickel.
i didnt think wright was that great last year. i see it as verrett, flowers, weddle and maybe addae. one name to remember as well is steve williams.
Wright was awful last year, as were all of the San Diego CBs. Here is how they ranked in PFF's rankings from last season:

#94 Johnny Patrick

#101 Richard Marshall

#102 Shareece Wright

#104 Derek Cox

...and, as bad as those rankings are, they are slightly worse if you look at just the pass coverage rankings, ignoring the other categories (pass rushing, run defense, penalties).

Unfortunately, Flowers ranked #87 last season. But as some have pointed out, that was at least in part to a bad fit for him in the defensive scheme. So hopefully he will be better in San Diego. I'd be surprised if he isn't better than Wright.

I also don't agree that Verrett will be limited to the nickel.

 
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If the NFL thought he was a Pro Bowl-caliber player, he would have gotten more.

This isn't a right guard, or a punter. This is the positon that every team would say they need another good one.

Plenty of teams have enough money to throw him a better contract than that.

 
I've also heard a ton about this 'bad fit'.

Nice way to say he can't cover one on one.

KC ran man to man. So Flowers can't do that? He's a zone guy? Fine, but then he's limited.

Corners that can only play zone are a lot easier to find than man cover guys.

 
I've also heard a ton about this 'bad fit'.

Nice way to say he can't cover one on one.

KC ran man to man. So Flowers can't do that? He's a zone guy? Fine, but then he's limited.

Corners that can only play zone are a lot easier to find than man cover guys.
not many guys can cover the likes of DJax and DThom on their own 1 on 1. That's basically what KC asked him to do and he got little S help.
 
Really. He was shadowing the other teams #1 receiver, with little safety help, every week.

If that's true, then yeah, I would say he was a victim in KC. I also find that hard to believe.

 
Massraider seems to be talking out of his ###. Does anyone actually know the other offers he got? Or the exact defensive schemes? He also has history with Eddie Royal, so maybe he took a little less,to play on a contender, in a scheme that will showcase his talents just so he can land an even bigger deal next year.

 
Massraider seems to be talking out of his ###. Does anyone actually know the other offers he got? Or the exact defensive schemes? He also has history with Eddie Royal, so maybe he took a little less,to play on a contender, in a scheme that will showcase his talents just so he can land an even bigger deal next year.
Cornerback is the most in-demand position there is. I don't really think that's debatable.

I think Flowers is definitely one of SD's three best corners, and was probably one of KC's three best. So I think SD is better and KC is worse. And at that price, I wish Oakland has signed him. OK?

And I.think it's a great price. Even if he sucks, doesn't hurt SD even a little bit.

But the price, last year's performance, and oh yeah, getting straight up CUT, tends to make me wonder if he is all big name, small game now.

Is it really that hard to imagine why one would question it?

What's KC gonna do with the cap space? Make a splash in free agency? Everyone left is a minimum wage guy. They better use that space to lock up some young talent, or it'll look even worse for Flowers.

But last year's

 
Hahaha, yeah, I think this ALL THE TIME when reading those blurbs. Joe is really quick on the draw with the "lost a step" or "not the same player he used to be". Joe seems like a good guy, but he needs to dial it back with those phrases if he's even the one writing them anymore. I've been reading these e-mails for years and quite often a player will get a better QB or better offensive line and suddenly return to being the player he used to be. Sometimes in the middle of the season. Funny how that works. But yeah, calling out Flowers at 28 seemed a bit extreme even for Joe, although I haven't followed Flowers so this could be one of those rare instances where it is correct to say it. Unlikely given his age, though.
Joe still does the daily emails. I don't know if he'd ever give those up.

The thing about Brandon Flowers is that we don't just have to use our own opinions. Obviously getting released this late in the offseason isn't ideal because a lot of teams have already made other plans or don't have enough cap space left, but the guy just signed a 1-year, $3-million contract. I think that's pretty damning evidence that 32 NFL GMs think he's not the player he used to be.

Now, GMs are wrong all the time (Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie basically signed a 1-year, $5 million deal before cashing in big this offseason), but in 2011 Flowers signed a 5-year, $50 million contract with $22 million guaranteed. It's an AWFUL long way down from there all the way to a 1-year, $3-million "show me" deal.
Like I said, maybe it's actually true here, but the real issue is that Joe is extremely fast and loose with that phrase. It is pretty much automatic if the guy has a down year and is a RB equal to or greater than 28 years of age and a WR/TE equal to or greater than 30 years of age. It doesn't matter if the entire offensive line had season ending injuries or if the QB played horribly, the player will definitely be getting a "not the player he used to be" thrown at him in the "our view" this year.

:tinfoilhat: ... maybe Joe programmed some macros to populate the "our view" section and I've just stumbled onto one of the functions.

 
It's a one year deal with $3 million guaranteed. He gets another million if he plays 78.5% of the defensive snaps, and another million if he plays 92.5% of the defensive snaps and the Chargers reach the AFC Championship game.

So it could be a $3 million deal, a $4 million deal, or a $5 million deal, with the most likely probably being $4 million.

Flowers had a down season last year. (He made the Pro Bowl on reputation only.) The scheme changed. He was asked to play more press-man without a lot of help, and that's not really his strength. He ended up moving inside to cover the slot. Earlier in his career, when he excelled, he played more off-man or zone.

People are right to say that, if he can't thrive in any scheme, he is limited. Cornerbacks who can't play man on the outside without deep help don't make as much as those who can.

He seems to fit the Chargers scheme, though, so this year will be the test: is he not the same cornerback he used to be, or is he the same cornerback who looks different in different schemes?

Time will tell.

I would expect Flowers to start on the outside and be the Chargers' best cornerback unless Varrett is an extremely fast learner (even despite missing on-field offseason reps because of his shoulder).

Wright did start to play better toward the end of the season last year. It's possible that Wright will play opposite Flowers and Varrett will move inside. It's also possible that Varrett will start opposite Flowers and Williams will play inside. Or Ghee could be one of the top three guys. Gilchrist could also be in the mix. Or any combination. It's really up in the air. The only solid expectation, IMO, is that Flowers will start.

 
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Hahaha, yeah, I think this ALL THE TIME when reading those blurbs. Joe is really quick on the draw with the "lost a step" or "not the same player he used to be". Joe seems like a good guy, but he needs to dial it back with those phrases if he's even the one writing them anymore. I've been reading these e-mails for years and quite often a player will get a better QB or better offensive line and suddenly return to being the player he used to be. Sometimes in the middle of the season. Funny how that works. But yeah, calling out Flowers at 28 seemed a bit extreme even for Joe, although I haven't followed Flowers so this could be one of those rare instances where it is correct to say it. Unlikely given his age, though.
Joe still does the daily emails. I don't know if he'd ever give those up.

The thing about Brandon Flowers is that we don't just have to use our own opinions. Obviously getting released this late in the offseason isn't ideal because a lot of teams have already made other plans or don't have enough cap space left, but the guy just signed a 1-year, $3-million contract. I think that's pretty damning evidence that 32 NFL GMs think he's not the player he used to be.

Now, GMs are wrong all the time (Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie basically signed a 1-year, $5 million deal before cashing in big this offseason), but in 2011 Flowers signed a 5-year, $50 million contract with $22 million guaranteed. It's an AWFUL long way down from there all the way to a 1-year, $3-million "show me" deal.
The deal he signed is more about the timing of his release than the decline in his play IMO. There just aren't teams out there who can afford to sign him for a lot of money at this stage of the offseason.
Yeah, like I said, I'm sure that played a role. But still, we're looking at 1 year and $3 million dollars. Miles Austin got a virtually identical deal a month ago (1 year, $2m). Miles Austin. You can't just explain that entire gap by pointing to the timing. No one else in the entire NFL was willing to pay him more than $3m for a 1-year rental? A third of the league has more than $10 million in cap space. The Packers and Colts both have $13m. Could they not have used a CB? The Jets, Bengals, Browns, and Jags have over $20 million in cap space this year. None of them could have tossed $3m Flowers' way?

The NFL ATL crew was saying much the same thing- they were hearing Flowers' contract was so bad because there simply wasn't much interest in him around the league. Only a handful of teams even bothered contacting him. If he'd been cut after 2011, how many teams do you think would have been contacting his agent?
Austin got $300K guaranteed, Flowers $1.5mm, and Flowers can earn $2mm more in incentives this year- the contracts aren't virtually identical at all. It's also a pretty good situation for him to try and rebuild his value, so it's not a guarantee that no one else in the entire NFL was willing to give him more than he signed for.
Austin had a $300,000 signing bonus, but it's not at all uncommon for first-year salaries to be guaranteed, too. I tried googling, but I can't find if Austin's was. Even if it's not, his full 1-year contract is practically guaranteed for everything except for injury.

Flowers' incentives definitely fall under the "very unlikely to be earned" category. He needs to play in 92.5% of the defense's snaps, and the Chargers need to reach the AFCCG. Even setting aside how likely San Diego is to reach the AFCCG, Flowers has only appeared in 92.5% of his defense's snaps once in his entire career (2011). He'd have to stay fully healthy for all 16 games, he'd have to not come off the field in specialty sub-packages, and the Chargers coaches would have to call their defense straight (i.e. not reducing his field time by a handful of snaps in blowouts to save $2m against the cap). They're theoretically achievable and they give his agent a selling point when trying to spin the deal, but the real meat of his contract is the 1-year, $3m.

I actually think Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie is a pretty good comp. Aqib Talib also got a 1-year deal, although a lot of that was based on off-field issues. Rogers-Cromartie is a guy who was forced to sign a deal that was well below what he could have earned a few years prior because the bloom had come off the rose, so to speak. DRC wound up turning things around, playing marvelously, and proving the NFL wrong. He cashed in big this offseason as a result. Maybe Flowers will do the same thing. Still, I think it's fair to say that the NFL is skeptical about whether he's the same player he was a few years ago.
According to Spotrac, Austin has just the $300K guaranteed, and the rest is far from practically guaranteed- he's not even a lock to make the team. His hammy's act up again and he's gone, etc.

You're wrong about Flowers as well- yes, to hit all of his incentives he needs those things to happen, but according to this article, all he has to do is play 78.5% of the defensive snaps in order to earn "at least" another $1mm. The article says he played in 78.11% last year while missing 3 games, so that's far from "very unlikely to be earned". It also says he has $3mm guaranteed.

Anywho, obviously NFL teams valued him somewhat less than KC did back in 2011, but there are other factors at play as well. The Miles Austin reference was particularly puzzling to me.

 
According to Spotrac, Austin has just the $300K guaranteed, and the rest is far from practically guaranteed- he's not even a lock to make the team. His hammy's act up again and he's gone, etc.

You're wrong about Flowers as well- yes, to hit all of his incentives he needs those things to happen, but according to this article, all he has to do is play 78.5% of the defensive snaps in order to earn "at least" another $1mm. The article says he played in 78.11% last year while missing 3 games, so that's far from "very unlikely to be earned". It also says he has $3mm guaranteed.

Anywho, obviously NFL teams valued him somewhat less than KC did back in 2011, but there are other factors at play as well. The Miles Austin reference was particularly puzzling to me.
I mostly brought up Austin because he's one of the few guys to sign a contract since the NFL draft, so he was ostensibly signing in a similar environment (i.e. after teams had already made their plans at each position and the free agent money had largely dried up).

Early reports I saw on Flowers' contract was that it was $3m with another $2m in incentives if he played 92.5% of snaps and reached the AFCCG. With the further details posted in this thread that the $2m bonus is split into 2 levels, I do agree that the contract is essentially a 1-year, $4m contract with $1m in injury protection in case Flowers misses substantial time.

Either way, it's quite a far cry from his 2011 contract. Even given the extenuating circumstances, it suggests that NFL GMs have cooled on him considerably as a player.

 
According to Spotrac, Austin has just the $300K guaranteed, and the rest is far from practically guaranteed- he's not even a lock to make the team. His hammy's act up again and he's gone, etc.

You're wrong about Flowers as well- yes, to hit all of his incentives he needs those things to happen, but according to this article, all he has to do is play 78.5% of the defensive snaps in order to earn "at least" another $1mm. The article says he played in 78.11% last year while missing 3 games, so that's far from "very unlikely to be earned". It also says he has $3mm guaranteed.

Anywho, obviously NFL teams valued him somewhat less than KC did back in 2011, but there are other factors at play as well. The Miles Austin reference was particularly puzzling to me.
I mostly brought up Austin because he's one of the few guys to sign a contract since the NFL draft, so he was ostensibly signing in a similar environment (i.e. after teams had already made their plans at each position and the free agent money had largely dried up).

Early reports I saw on Flowers' contract was that it was $3m with another $2m in incentives if he played 92.5% of snaps and reached the AFCCG. With the further details posted in this thread that the $2m bonus is split into 2 levels, I do agree that the contract is essentially a 1-year, $4m contract with $1m in injury protection in case Flowers misses substantial time.

Either way, it's quite a far cry from his 2011 contract. Even given the extenuating circumstances, it suggests that NFL GMs have cooled on him considerably as a player.
That's how I see it too.

Also, the Chargers would be extremely happy to pay the extra $1M if he stays healthy all season and they reach the AFCCG.

 
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Wright did start to play better toward the end of the season last year. It's possible that Wright will play opposite Flowers and Verrett will move inside. It's also possible that Verrett will start opposite Flowers and Williams will play inside. Or Ghee could be one of the top three guys. Gilchrist could also be in the mix. Or any combination. It's really up in the air. The only solid expectation, IMO, is that Flowers will start.
Ghee is my favorite to be the slot CB - he plays like butter when healthy.

 

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