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John Cena Apologizes In Mandarin? (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
squistion
Footballguy
I have. Please be so kind as to name those in this thread who have been China apologists with some quotes, as I have no idea who you are talking about.
quick-hands
Footballguy
He does shows in china as well. Heck. Ric Flair did a job for the north korean politburo
Collision in Korea
Poster featuring Antonio Inoki and Ric Flair
Promotion New Japan Pro-Wrestling World Championship Wrestling
Date April 28–29, 1995 (aired August 4, 1995)
City Pyongyang, North Korea
Thunderlips
Footballguy
True. I just think though that all those dealings with Ivanka and China while she was helping shape policy sent a mixed message to the American public; particularly whle the Trump administration was denouncing China and claiming they were a threat.
identikit
Footballguy
So what was the secession?Technically I was born in the only place in this county to successfully secede from the country.
I suppose that makes me a faux American.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
quick-hands
Footballguy
But why go to the last guy who is gone when the current first family is actively enriching themselves. Come on man.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
I think the last administration was more antagonistic towards China. It was pretty hypocritical that a policy maker in the Trump White House was personally making money with China...while the Trump administration was selling us on an idea that it was the countries best interests to not deal with China. Biden, at least from alot of Conservative sites I see on the line, seems to be more "friendly" toward China. Maybe he doesn't see them as big a threat and is more open to doing business with them?
Thunderlips
Footballguy
ETA: At any rate, our leaders...be it Hunter Biden or Donald Trump send mixed messages when it comes to THEIR wallets in regards to the evility of China. It would be nice if they walked the personal walk while talking the talk.
quick-hands
Footballguy
Biden is very friendly. Extremely freindly.
He seems to be pretty friendly with Putin as well.
quick-hands
Footballguy
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
Key West; "We seceded where others failed"
They seceded, and immediately applied for aide. The issue was over border checks going back to the mainland.
quick-hands
Footballguy
Im sure they actually have them. And they might of be him getting a massage. According to anonymous sources.
identikit
Footballguy
quick-hands
Footballguy
identikit
Footballguy
djmich
Footballguy
Eh sounds like your painting a scenario that can never be acted on correctly. We do business with China and they with us, I accept that. Calling out the #### they do wrong despite potential business impacts is actually a principled stand.
Are you suggesting the right thing is to say nothing? Or to kill legitimate trade?
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Panama Canal Zone?Technically I was born in the only place in this county to successfully secede from the country.
I suppose that makes me a faux American.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
On the macro level...I don't know what we should do. To be honest, I don't know if we could win a hot war with them. I don't know if we can win a legit cold war with them. I think they are legimiately playing for an endgame while we're still reading the instructions to the game. I'd say that both Obama and Trump failed to understand the importance of the Chinese investments of Africa in the past decade and I think the Trump REALLY dropped the ball on a move to invest in South America as a response to the Chinese/Africa situation.
On a micro level in regards to the Trump Administration...I think they could have made more of an effort to nudge their personal finances and business opportunities to be more in line with their governmental opinons in regards to China. Trumps personal business ties to a country he claims is not our friend doesn't look good and clouds opinons as to whether or not China is a bad as he says; after all...if he and his family are willing to take money/do business with them...why shouldn't I?
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
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knowledge dropper
Footballguy
Great heel turn.
Why do you hate America?Technically I was born in the only place in this county to successfully secede from the country.
I suppose that makes me a faux American.
rockaction
Footballguy
I think that's the ultimate end game behind the outrage, isn't it? Whether it is at all pragmatic or feasible is another case.
This seems a lot like a cultural relativism. I think anybody with a functioning noggin can tell you, to some degree, that not only do we tend not to equate the two countries but why that's a false equivalence.Whether or not I agree with Chinas stance has nothing to do with whether I am “outraged” that they demand people play by their rules.
In America we make people play by our rules.
rockaction
Footballguy
This thing that you never asked for -- this thing that was implemented by cultural hardliners intent on culturally erasing in print or word the removal of the concept of atrocity and as follows that, at times, basic dignity and autonomy.
Y U NO LIKE?
dkp993
Footballguy
I guess what I’m missing here is who is apologizing for, supporting or backing China in this thread? What I’m reading is people aren’t surprised he bent the knee to the almighty dollar. I’ve not seen 1 word of support for China, it’s policies or its treatment of their people.
rockaction
Footballguy
It was about the claims that this was a "faux outrage." Claiming "faux outrage," or pooh-poohing the suggestion that what Cena did was either wrong, or at least unseemly, is what I'm referring to.
I didn't say anything where people were on China's side. Actually the whole point of Ivan's point is to identify that someone had called it "faux outrage," and that that sort of response is along the lines of "Why are YOU SO MAD?!" predictable.
Joe saw it. I saw it. You have to read the thread in continuity and see who is addressing who.
This isn't the squistion/quick-hands meta-commentary. That's a different issue altogether. Read more carefully and you'll see what I'm saying.
dkp993
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
No sweat. I skim a lot. I've learned after so many years here that one will get hoisted on their own petard for it. We have an exacting bunch.
E Street Brat
Footballguy
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
It's the same thing as we saw last year with that NBA/Rockets/China thing (I forgot the issue at this point tbh), but it all comes down to Cena & Studio doing everything they can to keep that China dollar flowing in.
E Street Brat
Footballguy
Aren't there people on the left that see China's public private partnership the wave of the future and would love to see that type of system replace our own.
The people I speak of aren't the general libs like you guys here, But the uber rich lefties.
djmich
Footballguy
And frankly, this seems to be no different from pandering to BLM. All about the $'s
Its ironic though. You think I am simply dismissive of the OP opinion (which, also ironically, is true), but to prove that you dismiss my point of view.
There is no rational reason to be angry with Cena for bowing down to China's wishes. China has a long-standing policy of One China, and if you do business there, you know that going in. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. Not if you are Cena, or the NBA, or any other large multi-national corporation.
So, for anyone to say "Is this real?" - as if Bloomberg made it up whole cloth - is the quintessential example of faux outrage. Its taking a nothing story, and treating as though its a shocking news story. And, then the easiest way to deal with that is to look dismissively upon anyone who calls them on it - as if its so "predictable".
From my perspective, you can disagree with the One China policy, but you can't be surprised that China takes it seriously, and that a film star and studio try to make amends to salvage their financial dealings within China. There is nothing wrong with what Cena did here - even if you would have made a stronger stand yourself in that situation.
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rockaction
Footballguy
First, I really didn't dismiss a point a view. As a matter of fact, if you'd taken the time to explain that you disagree with modern media standards of what counts as a story, we'd have a jumping off point. But you instead jumped in with it being a non-story by even today's standards.
So, to further the substantive part of this argument, I don't think it's a story made up of whole cloth. There was a public statement made by Cena through a media opportunity, a reprisal because of said statement, and then a retraction and apology because of pressure from the Chinese government. Yes, if being a part of the mass media and taking up its charge (to entertain and be front-and-center at all costs) is making up stuff out of whole cloth, then we can have a discussion along the lines of Boorstin's The Image and what mass media really does in our day and age. Then we could really discuss what makes a story a story. In other words, if you were to lament that the story was only story but for the media and the PR Cena was doing in the first place (his gaffe) and that his subsequent retraction and apology furthered the non-story, that'd be fine. But you weren't doing that. You were assigning it non-story status by current media and societal standards, when the genesis of the story is really a large chunk of what passes for stories in our day and media age.
I mean, I'm more than receptive to the above critique (and have read the book that pointed it out! Yay for me!) about PR and the PR cycle being all full of #### and fake and odious and not really "news," in the least, but rather, a way to smuggle product down the throats of consumers (both of news and of goods), and I would have engaged thusly.
As it was, you simply called it a non-story, and I assumed you were talking about the modern standard of what constitutes a "story."
Sorry, I went to quote your above comment but crapped the roll. @Sinn Feinso you can see the response.
So, to further the substantive part of this argument, I don't think it's a story made up of whole cloth. There was a public statement made by Cena through a media opportunity, a reprisal because of said statement, and then a retraction and apology because of pressure from the Chinese government. Yes, if being a part of the mass media and taking up its charge (to entertain and be front-and-center at all costs) is making up stuff out of whole cloth, then we can have a discussion along the lines of Boorstin's The Image and what mass media really does in our day and age. Then we could really discuss what makes a story a story. In other words, if you were to lament that the story was only story but for the media and the PR Cena was doing in the first place (his gaffe) and that his subsequent retraction and apology furthered the non-story, that'd be fine. But you weren't doing that. You were assigning it non-story status by current media and societal standards, when the genesis of the story is really a large chunk of what passes for stories in our day and media age.
I mean, I'm more than receptive to the above critique (and have read the book that pointed it out! Yay for me!) about PR and the PR cycle being all full of #### and fake and odious and not really "news," in the least, but rather, a way to smuggle product down the throats of consumers (both of news and of goods), and I would have engaged thusly.
As it was, you simply called it a non-story, and I assumed you were talking about the modern standard of what constitutes a "story."
Sorry, I went to quote your above comment but crapped the roll. @Sinn Feinso you can see the response.
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djmich
Footballguy
I thought JB was saying "is it real" because Cena was speaking Chinese lol. With that linguistic backdrop is just seems very "grovelly".
There actually are rational reasons to be angry with Cena....as you state at the end a person may feel that he should have taken a stronger stand. You can think the fact that he didnt is bad and think less of him. But you can at the same time you can also realize the factors at play and that its all about the dollars. Frankly, when I read the thread this is basically what EVERYONE is saying.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Its not what I am saying. I have no problem with Cena issuing the apology - in fact, I think its smart business. It happens quite often - as we saw recently with the NBA. To be angry with Cena is, frankly, weird. I get being upset with China (I disagree, but I understand that).
When in Rome, do as the Romans. When in China, do what the Chinese want (or don't go to China).
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
We just disagree.
Cena apologizing (only after the immediate backlash in China) is not a news-worthy story in any era.
It has the same pull as "Dog bites man" - sure you can print it, and generate some clicks - but its not newsworthy.
Now, if a non-story runs through a political filter - as it apparently did in this case - you get the faux outrage over a nothing story. Because "how dare anyone bow down to China?" (And this happens in reverse to - I see it all the time where a non-story runs through a democratic lens, and you have a lot of faux outrage).
Every tech company makes concessions to China, every multinational corporation makes concessions to china. A movie star correcting a gaffe (as viewed in China) shouldn't even merit a tweet.
If we were in China - sure, I could see this as a big deal. But, I also would think that anyone up in arms about a movie star making a mistake in how he characterized Taiwan as faux outrage. If this had been Tim Cook, or a senior politician making that mistake - sure. But, a movie star? Meh.
rockaction
Footballguy
Fair enough. We have enough ginned-up outrage and seeing things through a particular political lens is often problematic. One thing maybe to think of, though: Cena's statement itself was generally apolitical, or at least ignorant, yet it was immediately seen through a political lens by one major actor in the story; not the media, but namely China, who found it enough of a threat to issue reprisals and calls for retraction. That's the story, and a worthy one.
If that's not a story worth reporting (that their political lens is so acute as to be ruffled by a decently known movie star and professional wrestler) then I'm not sure what is. It certainly puts into context how China views everything through a political lens. Maybe that should be the takeaway, that they are totalitarian in everything they do, and that they see everything as a function of the political. But that would be calling totalitarianism just that, something our corporations who see fit to comment on social justice causes of all stripes these days are afraid of.
That's also the story. We just disagree whether it is significant. I would argue that the state of mind that allows one entity to sermonize the public (think BLM and commercial entities) while at the same time getting their billions from people who act twice as odiously as the worst police deptarment in the world is something to behold! It's akin to the character defense in a trial. Once you introduce a defendant's good character, the prosecution's case for it not being so is the fairest of games. Once corporations (and earlier this century, unions were the largest groups of socially aware people) started meddling in social consciousness with respect to social structures, thus did they bear the burden of their choices in all walks of life that pertained thereto.
If that's not a story worth reporting (that their political lens is so acute as to be ruffled by a decently known movie star and professional wrestler) then I'm not sure what is. It certainly puts into context how China views everything through a political lens. Maybe that should be the takeaway, that they are totalitarian in everything they do, and that they see everything as a function of the political. But that would be calling totalitarianism just that, something our corporations who see fit to comment on social justice causes of all stripes these days are afraid of.
That's also the story. We just disagree whether it is significant. I would argue that the state of mind that allows one entity to sermonize the public (think BLM and commercial entities) while at the same time getting their billions from people who act twice as odiously as the worst police deptarment in the world is something to behold! It's akin to the character defense in a trial. Once you introduce a defendant's good character, the prosecution's case for it not being so is the fairest of games. Once corporations (and earlier this century, unions were the largest groups of socially aware people) started meddling in social consciousness with respect to social structures, thus did they bear the burden of their choices in all walks of life that pertained thereto.
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quick-hands
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
He means "liberal" in the philosophical tradition, not the modern liberal <----------> conservative paradigm, where when discussing where we are stand along that line we're arguing about degrees of our liberality, for the most part. "Liberal" as in potentially "classical liberal." "Liberal" as juxtaposed against "illiberal," or "authoritarian" or "totalitarian."
Not like, "you damn left wing libs."
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
I can't imagine anyone is surprised by this. American corporations have turned a blind eye to kids locked in a factory to make our clothing. Our culture is we pursue the $$$ no matter what the cost here. I don't support it but it's what we do. The NBA is no different.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Meaning people in China. No doubt the NBA doesn’t care as ling as they keep making money.
