John Elway's Career (1 Viewer)

[thekidd2009]

Seems like a lot of revisionist history goes on with how Elway is remembered. He had a ton of hype being the number 1 overall pick and went out on top winning two superbowls at the end of his career. However, for a guy that is consistently mentioned as a top 3 qb, I fail to see how this is so. Elway never passed for more than 27 TD passes in his 16-year career. It wasn't until Elway was in his 11th NFL campaign of 1993 that he ever surpassed 22 TD passes in a season. He averaged 18.75 TD passes per year, while tossing 226 picks (14.13 per year). That is 19-14 average TD:INT ratio. And save for that breakout 1993 campaign, when Elway lead the league in completions (348) and yards (4,030), he never led the league in any major passing categories (completions, yards, TDs, passer rating).

I Still am confused to how Elway won an mvp award in the strike shortened season of 1987. Elway had a 54.6 completion % 3,198 yds 19td's and 12int's. For comparison's sake, Joe Montana had a 66.8 completion % 3,054 yds 31 td's and 13int's. That same year, Jerry Rice went 65 catches 1,078 yds and 22tds. Not to be out done, Reggie White had 21 sacks in only 12 games! All of these seasons far outweigh Elway's, yet Elway won the mvp.

Elway was a great player and I'm not trying to take that away from him, but to consider him in the top 3 quarterbacks of all time is absurd. I understand numbers don't tell the whole story but when comparing him to the other all time greats, his career numbers are more of a product of him playing 16 years, rather than him being the best at his position. I would like to hear from others regarding how they view John Elway when ranking the all time greats. I was born in 1986, so i missed out on the early years of Elway and only got to see the tail end of his career. I took it as gospel that Elway was one the greatest of all time; However, when looking back on his numbers and his career, things don't seem to add up.

 

[Multiple Scores]

Your selling horseface short.

 

[hotboyz]

I absolutely agree then dan marino is always shortchanged when his name is mentioned. In my opinion dan marino was the best qb ever and warren moon needs to be included in the conversation of top 5 qbs

 

[thekidd2009]

Your selling horseface short.

Do you care to elaborate? From all the reading i've done, you had Montana and Marino in the 80's and Young and Farve in the 90's. Where does Elway fit in after these guys in both of these decades.

 

[DawnBTVS]

There are several things that really "pushed" Elway up...

1: His amazing ability to comeback on anybody, anywhere, at anytime. He was arguably rivaling Joe Montana in terms of who you didn't want to face in the final 2 minutes with the game on the line. That was a huge, huge part of his legacy.

2: He was a very solid scrambler even into his later years. He didn't run very often but he was capable of going for a 10-20 yard scramble at just the right time during a drive.

3: His surrounding cast for most of his career was up there with Tom Brady's 2001-2003 "cast" of teammates offensively in terms of carrying a team despite having very little to really work with. Take a gander at these names... from 1983-1989

- RB Sammy Winder

- RB Tony Dorsett (Who was 34 years old by 1988)

- RB Bobby Humphrey

- WR Steve Watson (Solid player but not quite elite)

- WR Rick Upchurch

- WR Butch Johnson

- WR Vance Johnson

- WR Mark Jackson

- WR Ricky Nattiel

- TE Clarence Kay

4: He carried the team on his back to 3 SB appearances up to 1989 and went up against absolute juggernauts in those losses.

 

[thekidd2009]

I absolutely agree then dan marino is always shortchanged when his name is mentioned. In my opinion dan marino was the best qb ever and warren moon needs to be included in the conversation of top 5 qbs

Yea it's ashame that Marino will slowly be forgotten as his records fall. With the rule changes and the possible 18 game regular season the only one's left are his 4th quarter comebacks and his single season yardage mark. The yardage record might fall this year...

 

[Ladsud]

It was a different era, besides Marino there werent many qbs putting up huge numbers. You compared him to Montana in your post, Montana only had one 30 td year and never had a 4000yd year. Compare him to the numbers QBs are putting up today they arent anything special, 10 qbs went over 4000 in 2009.

Theres been alot of rule changes since those days that really help out the passing game.

 

[thekidd2009]

There are several things that really "pushed" Elway up...1: His amazing ability to comeback on anybody, anywhere, at anytime. He was arguably rivaling Joe Montana in terms of who you didn't want to face in the final 2 minutes with the game on the line. That was a huge, huge part of his legacy.2: He was a very solid scrambler even into his later years. He didn't run very often but he was capable of going for a 10-20 yard scramble at just the right time during a drive.3: His surrounding cast for most of his career was up there with Tom Brady's 2001-2003 "cast" of teammates offensively in terms of carrying a team despite having very little to really work with. Take a gander at these names... from 1983-1989- RB Sammy Winder- RB Tony Dorsett (Who was 34 years old by 1988)- RB Bobby Humphrey- WR Steve Watson (Solid player but not quite elite)- WR Rick Upchurch- WR Butch Johnson- WR Vance Johnson- WR Mark Jackson- WR Ricky Nattiel- TE Clarence Kay4: He carried the team on his back to 3 SB appearances up to 1989 and went up against absolute juggernauts in those losses.

It's definitely impressive that Elway made it to 5 superbowls but he didn't seem to fair to well in these games.His totals in the superbowls are 76 attempts 152 completions 50% 1,128 yards 3 td's 8 int's 59.3 rating

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Elway was a leader and also brought his team down the field to score when they got behind in the 4th quarter. He is top3 at 4th quarter winning drives, almost sure of it. Remember that when Elway entered the league same time as Marino, the season highs for TDs was something like 32 and yds passing might have been about 4,000 or close to it. Elway was part of the new era of QBs and he had great leadership skills.

 

[chinawildman]

I think it's a mistake to look at statlines to evaluate the validity of a player's MVP candidacy... He was the MVP for the Denver Broncos of 1987, not the MVP of the FF realm that year.

 

[Hastur]

Right now, SSOG is sitting down, playing with his kids, having a philosophical discussion with his wife, or mowing the lawn. His heart is only half into it because he knows there's just something not right in the universe, but he can't quite put his finger on it.

When he sees this thread, he's gonna freak.

 

[RTB1]

Look at Elway's coach for most of his career - Dan Reeves. While Reeves has an impressive coaching career, he was known as a "close-to-the-vest" type of coach that called a conservative game plan, and would only really turn Elway loose during the 4th quarter when the game was on the line. Elway has voiced his frustration several times since his retirement about what he could have done without Reeves reigning him in.

There's a reason that Shanahan, an offensive "genius", hasn't had much success without Elway. There's a reason Elway's career prior to working with an offensive coach was statistically "inferior" to Marino and Montana.

If you never saw him play, the numbers don't tell the story. When your team played the Broncos and Elway, you never felt safe. Prior to Vick, he was THE athletic QB in the NFL.

Forget the individual stats. Look at his win-loss record, and look at the players around him while he compiled those stats.

Elway deserves his reputation.

 

[shredhead]

Right now, SSOG is sitting down, playing with his kids, having a philosophical discussion with his wife, or mowing the lawn. His heart is only half into it because he knows there's just something not right in the universe, but he can't quite put his finger on it.

When he sees this thread, he's gonna freak.

I think you are exactly right, I can't wait to read SSOG's response to this thread.

 

[thekidd2009]

Right now, SSOG is sitting down, playing with his kids, having a philosophical discussion with his wife, or mowing the lawn. His heart is only half into it because he knows there's just something not right in the universe, but he can't quite put his finger on it.

When he sees this thread, he's gonna freak.

I think you are exactly right, I can't wait to read SSOG's response to this thread.

Yea i'm waiting for him to chime in as well but i know he's impossible to debate with. I'm just simply pointing out alot of the discrepancies in Elway's legacy. I just don't see how Elway is viewed by some as the best QB of all time.

 

[ROBOPUNTER]

Is it true he was never a 1st team All Pro? Not a single time?

 

[thekidd2009]

I think it's a mistake to look at statlines to evaluate the validity of a player's MVP candidacy... He was the MVP for the Denver Broncos of 1987, not the MVP of the FF realm that year.

He was the MVP of the NFL and numbers play a huge part in who wins it. The seasons that I listed, specifically Rice's and Reggie White's were arguably the best seasons of all time at there positions. If it would have been a full 16 games, imagine what numbers both are looking at. Comparing Elway to Montana that same year and he gets blown away. I fail to see how this is the MVP of the league.

 

[Chaka]

You left wins out of your analysis.

 

[thekidd2009]

Is it true he was never a 1st team All Pro? Not a single time?

I've been trying to figure that out myself. His MVP year would have been the only year that he was an all-pro but when I look it up, I don't find him ever listed as a 1st team all pro.

 

[Choke]

Seems like a lot of revisionist history goes on with how Elway is remembered.

There is, no doubt about it. Elway has gotten better the longer he's been retired.

 

[cstu]

Prior to Vick, he was THE athletic QB in the NFL.

He was a good running QB but Steve Young was a much better running QB.

 

[shredhead]

Right now, SSOG is sitting down, playing with his kids, having a philosophical discussion with his wife, or mowing the lawn. His heart is only half into it because he knows there's just something not right in the universe, but he can't quite put his finger on it.

When he sees this thread, he's gonna freak.

I think you are exactly right, I can't wait to read SSOG's response to this thread.

Yea i'm waiting for him to chime in as well but i know he's impossible to debate with. I'm just simply pointing out alot of the discrepancies in Elway's legacy. I just don't see how Elway is viewed by some as the best QB of all time.

I am lucky enough to have been able to watch Elway's entire career as a Colorado resident and Bronco fan. I can't explain it as well as others, but Brant above does a pretty good job of it. You will never be able to come close to explaining Elway's legacy with numbers and stats. You were to young to appreciate the greatness and even the feel of that era in the NFL. Unfortunately, even if you tried, you will never understand, and that's OK, it just is that way because of when you were born. Elway had the intangibles and raw talent that was far greater than his numbers. I hate this analogy, but it fits in Elway's case, he had the "it" factor.

 

[eze028]

Right now, SSOG is sitting down, playing with his kids, having a philosophical discussion with his wife, or mowing the lawn. His heart is only half into it because he knows there's just something not right in the universe, but he can't quite put his finger on it.

When he sees this thread, he's gonna freak.

I think you are exactly right, I can't wait to read SSOG's response to this thread.

Yea i'm waiting for him to chime in as well but i know he's impossible to debate with. I'm just simply pointing out alot of the discrepancies in Elway's legacy. I just don't see how Elway is viewed by some as the best QB of all time.

There is no discrepancies in Elways career. He was from a different time for the QB position, back then DB's were allowed to rape WR's. DE's and LB's were allowed to crush the QB. The passing attack of today was in its infancy back then. Coaches like Reeves were the norm. If Elway played under Walsh, or even better Jerry Glanville (man I prayed for that as a kid). Imagine the numbers he could have posted? Elway, like Marino (sickens me to say that) were ahead of there time, with the exception of maybe Moon, he was around first.

 

[thekidd2009]

You left wins out of your analysis.

What all time great quarterback doesn't rank highly in wins?

 

[DawnBTVS]

It's definitely impressive that Elway made it to 5 superbowls but he didn't seem to fair to well in these games.

His totals in the superbowls are 76 attempts 152 completions 50% 1,128 yards 3 td's 8 int's 59.3 rating

I think you're relying a wee bit too much on statistics but I'll bite...1986

vs. New England: 257 yards and 1 TD vs. 2 INT. 18 yards rushing and 1 TD.

vs. Cleveland (aka The Drive): 244 yards and 1 TD vs. 1 INT. 56 yards rushing.

Then he goes up against a NY Giants team that were 1st in Run D and 3rd in TD Passes allowed. They were also 7th in INT.

1987

vs. Houston: 259 yards and 2 TD vs. 1 INT. 8 yards rushing and 1 TD.

vs. Cleveland (aka The Fumble): 281 yards and 3 TD vs. 1 INT. 36 yards rushing.

Then he goes up against a Washington team that were 10th in Run D and 8th in TD Passes allowed. They were also 6th in INT.

1989

vs. Pittsburgh: 239 yards and 1 TD vs. 1 INT. 44 yards rushing.

vs. Cleveland: 385 yards and 3 TD vs. 0 INT. 39 yards rushing.

Then he goes up against a San Francisco team that were 3rd in Run D and 3rd in TD Passes allowed. They were also 9th in INT.

When I say he went up against juggernauts... they were juggernauts on Defense just as, if not more so on Offense. Every SB opponent he faced was at least Top 10 in Run D, Top 8 in allowing TD passes, and Top 9 in intercepting opposing quarterbacks.

There's also a reason that people say Terrell Davis helped Elway get over the hump (along with Rod Smith, Ed McCaffrey, and Shannon Sharpe).

 

[Chaka]

You left wins out of your analysis.

What all time great quarterback doesn't rank highly in wins?

He has more wins than everyone but Favre, and it took Favre longer to pass him.The guy was a winner.

 

[ROBOPUNTER]

. Every SB opponent he faced was at least Top 10 in Run D, Top 8 in allowing TD passes, and Top 9 in intercepting opposing quarterbacks.

These seem like pretty common traits of a Super Bowl team. I haven't looked it up, have you?

 

[Mile High]

Right now, SSOG is sitting down, playing with his kids, having a philosophical discussion with his wife, or mowing the lawn. His heart is only half into it because he knows there's just something not right in the universe, but he can't quite put his finger on it.

When he sees this thread, he's gonna freak.

I think you are exactly right, I can't wait to read SSOG's response to this thread.

Yea i'm waiting for him to chime in as well but i know he's impossible to debate with. I'm just simply pointing out alot of the discrepancies in Elway's legacy. I just don't see how Elway is viewed by some as the best QB of all time.

So a guy who hardly saw him play is wondering way those who did, call him one of the best of all time .

 

[ROBOPUNTER]

You left wins out of your analysis.

What all time great quarterback doesn't rank highly in wins?

He has more wins than everyone but Favre, and it took Favre longer to pass him.The guy was a winner.

I bet Elway thanks the good lord for Davis every night in his prayers.pre-Terrell Davis Elway's record was 105-66-1 (.610) playoffs: 7-6 (.538)

after TD's arrival Elway's record was 43-16 (.729) playoff: 7-1 (.875)

 

[thekidd2009]

Right now, SSOG is sitting down, playing with his kids, having a philosophical discussion with his wife, or mowing the lawn. His heart is only half into it because he knows there's just something not right in the universe, but he can't quite put his finger on it.

When he sees this thread, he's gonna freak.

I think you are exactly right, I can't wait to read SSOG's response to this thread.

Yea i'm waiting for him to chime in as well but i know he's impossible to debate with. I'm just simply pointing out alot of the discrepancies in Elway's legacy. I just don't see how Elway is viewed by some as the best QB of all time.

So a guy who hardly saw him play is wondering way those who did, call him one of the best of all time .

I admitted in my post that I saw him towards the tail end of his career and am trying to get some insight into why he is viewed as the best or the second best of all time. I remembered Elway as being a very good qb but he wasn't as good as Marino, Favre, or Young in the 90's and that was the "prime" of his career.

 

[thekidd2009]

You left wins out of your analysis.

What all time great quarterback doesn't rank highly in wins?

He has more wins than everyone but Favre, and it took Favre longer to pass him.The guy was a winner.

I bet Elway thanks the good lord for Davis every night in his prayers.pre-Terrell Davis Elway's record was 105-66-1 (.610) playoffs: 7-6 (.538)

after TD's arrival Elway's record was 43-16 (.729) playoff: 7-1 (.875)

Terrell Davis was an absolute monster and those mid 1990's broncos teams were incredible. I think this highlights the fact that football is the ultimate team sport. It took the best rushing attack in the league for Elway, who is considered by some to be the best qb of all time, to win a superbowl.

 

[DawnBTVS]

. Every SB opponent he faced was at least Top 10 in Run D, Top 8 in allowing TD passes, and Top 9 in intercepting opposing quarterbacks.

These seem like pretty common traits of a Super Bowl team. I haven't looked it up, have you?

Probably but it seemed like the OP was expecting(?) John Elway to win Super Bowls singlehandedly or something. I was pointing out that Elway carried his teams to the SB but when faced with a stout challenge that the rest of his teammates really couldn't match, Elway was in no position to carry the Broncos on his back either.

I admitted in my post that I saw him towards the tail end of his career and am trying to get some insight into why he is viewed as the best or the second best of all time. I remembered Elway as being a very good qb but he wasn't as good as Marino, Favre, or Young in the 90's and that was the "prime" of his career.

The issue here is that the 90's really weren't the prime years of Elway. Maybe statistically but Elway was 33 years old by the time 1993 rolled around. It's like saying Tom Brady or Peyton Manning's prime years are occurring right now when they're around 32/33 years old.- Dan Marino: Was 32 in 1993 and started fading a bit, especially compared to his early season numbers.

- Brett Favre: Was 24 in 1993 and easily entering his prime years as a QB.

- Steve Young: Was 32 in 1993 and was actually a similar case to John Elway. Only made it to and won 1 SB as a starter despite much, much better surrounding talent.

- Troy Aikman: Was 27 in 1993 and was in his prime then.

If you really want to "learn" about Elway I recommend the following

- Find any NFL Films team highlights that you can (I know Hulu.com has some under the Sports section)

- Find any NFL Films features on Elway or TIVO/DVR any "Classic Games" on NFL Network that feature Elway and the Broncos

 

[Michael Brown]

Right now, SSOG is sitting down, playing with his kids, having a philosophical discussion with his wife, or mowing the lawn. His heart is only half into it because he knows there's just something not right in the universe, but he can't quite put his finger on it.

When he sees this thread, he's gonna freak.

I think you are exactly right, I can't wait to read SSOG's response to this thread.

Yea i'm waiting for him to chime in as well but i know he's impossible to debate with. I'm just simply pointing out alot of the discrepancies in Elway's legacy. I just don't see how Elway is viewed by some as the best QB of all time.

So a guy who hardly saw him play is wondering way those who did, call him one of the best of all time .

And what is wrong with this? The numbers don't really bear him out as one of the best of all-time, so the kid wants to know what it was that caused the legacy. It's like a thirtysomething guy like myself questioning my dad and uncles on why Joe Namath is in the Hall of Fame when his stats are so bad.

 

[PolishNorbi]

Intangibles. Simple as that. Steve Nash only led assists in 04-05, and assists & ft pct in 05-06. Heck, he wasn't in top 5 in most of the other categories, yet he won back to back MVPs why is that?

 

[FreeBaGeL]

The issue here is that the 90's really weren't the prime years of Elway. Maybe statistically but Elway was 33 years old by the time 1993 rolled around. It's like saying Tom Brady or Peyton Manning's prime years are occurring right now

Tom Brady's best and second best seasons occurred when he was 30 and 32 years old. He's on pace to have his 3rd best season this year, at age 33.Peyton Manning had the second best season of his career last year, at age 33.I do get your point that the OP was only 4-7 years old during that point, but I'm a little older and likewise don't recall Elway being mentioned among the all-time greats so much while he was playing as say, Peyton or Brady are now.Like someone earlier said, for whatever reason, it seems like Elway has magically gotten better every year since he retired.

 

[Mile High]

Right now, SSOG is sitting down, playing with his kids, having a philosophical discussion with his wife, or mowing the lawn. His heart is only half into it because he knows there's just something not right in the universe, but he can't quite put his finger on it.

When he sees this thread, he's gonna freak.

I think you are exactly right, I can't wait to read SSOG's response to this thread.

Yea i'm waiting for him to chime in as well but i know he's impossible to debate with. I'm just simply pointing out alot of the discrepancies in Elway's legacy. I just don't see how Elway is viewed by some as the best QB of all time.

So a guy who hardly saw him play is wondering way those who did, call him one of the best of all time .

And what is wrong with this? The numbers don't really bear him out as one of the best of all-time, so the kid wants to know what it was that caused the legacy. It's like a thirtysomething guy like myself questioning my dad and uncles on why Joe Namath is in the Hall of Fame when his stats are so bad.

It's not all about the numbers or stats. If you saw him play then you would understand.

 

[shredhead]

The issue here is that the 90's really weren't the prime years of Elway. Maybe statistically but Elway was 33 years old by the time 1993 rolled around. It's like saying Tom Brady or Peyton Manning's prime years are occurring right now

Tom Brady's best and second best seasons occurred when he was 30 and 32 years old. He's on pace to have his 3rd best season this year, at age 33.Peyton Manning had the second best season of his career last year, at age 33.



I do get your point that the OP was only 4-7 years old during that point, but I'm a little older and likewise don't recall Elway being mentioned among the all-time greats so much while he was playing as say, Peyton or Brady are now.

Like someone earlier said, for whatever reason, it seems like Elway has magically gotten better every year since he retired.

Or maybe it's just that you young whipper snappers are getting a little wiser as you age.

 

[Tubalcane]

I admitted in my post that I saw him towards the tail end of his career and am trying to get some insight into why he is viewed as the best or the second best of all time. I remembered Elway as being a very good qb but he wasn't as good as Marino, Favre, or Young in the 90's and that was the "prime" of his career.

You need to buy a video of John or something. You are greatly misinformed. If you had taken John Elway and put him in a West Coast Offense, there would be no record left unbroken by him. He and Marino were once in a lifetime talent. They are the best there ever was. And let's not forget...He beat both Marino and Favre to win that superbowl in 97. To say that Favre was better than Elway is joke. Favre played his whole career in a West Coast offense. Put him with Dan Reeves...and you'd have never heard of him much. Elway and Marino were the only two QBs that I can remember, that if it was 3rd and 17...you thought the chances were above 50% that they would convert it. I can't say that about any other QBs.

 

[shredhead]

I admitted in my post that I saw him towards the tail end of his career and am trying to get some insight into why he is viewed as the best or the second best of all time. I remembered Elway as being a very good qb but he wasn't as good as Marino, Favre, or Young in the 90's and that was the "prime" of his career.

You need to buy a video of John or something. You are greatly misinformed. If you had taken John Elway and put him in a West Coast Offense, there would be no record left unbroken by him. He and Marino were once in a lifetime talent. They are the best there ever was. And let's not forget...He beat both Marino and Favre to win that superbowl in 97. To say that Favre was better than Elway is joke. Favre played his whole career in a West Coast offense. Put him with Dan Reeves...and you'd have never heard of him much.

Elway and Marino were the only two QBs that I can remember, that if it was 3rd and 17...you thought the chances were above 50% that they would convert it. I can't say that about any other QBs.

I'm one of the biggest Elway fans ever, but I think you gotta add Montana and Manning to that list.

 

[ROBOPUNTER]

. Every SB opponent he faced was at least Top 10 in Run D, Top 8 in allowing TD passes, and Top 9 in intercepting opposing quarterbacks.

These seem like pretty common traits of a Super Bowl team. I haven't looked it up, have you?

Probably but it seemed like the OP was expecting(?) John Elway to win Super Bowls singlehandedly or something. I was pointing out that Elway carried his teams to the SB but when faced with a stout challenge that the rest of his teammates really couldn't match, Elway was in no position to carry the Broncos on his back either.

I admitted in my post that I saw him towards the tail end of his career and am trying to get some insight into why he is viewed as the best or the second best of all time. I remembered Elway as being a very good qb but he wasn't as good as Marino, Favre, or Young in the 90's and that was the "prime" of his career.

The issue here is that the 90's really weren't the prime years of Elway. Maybe statistically but Elway was 33 years old by the time 1993 rolled around. It's like saying Tom Brady or Peyton Manning's prime years are occurring right now when they're around 32/33 years old.- Dan Marino: Was 32 in 1993 and started fading a bit, especially compared to his early season numbers.

- Brett Favre: Was 24 in 1993 and easily entering his prime years as a QB.

- Steve Young: Was 32 in 1993 and was actually a similar case to John Elway. Only made it to and won 1 SB as a starter despite much, much better surrounding talent.

- Troy Aikman: Was 27 in 1993 and was in his prime then.

If you really want to "learn" about Elway I recommend the following

- Find any NFL Films team highlights that you can (I know Hulu.com has some under the Sports section)

- Find any NFL Films features on Elway or TIVO/DVR any "Classic Games" on NFL Network that feature Elway and the Broncos

Okay. I read that point of yours as if it was something unique.I remember most of Elway's career. The NFL wasn't broadcasted like it is now, so I didn't watch every game, but he was on a good number of nationally televised games that I recall. The primary memory of Elway that I have is that the offense flowed through and depended on him having a great game in order for the Broncs to win, even moreso than Marino. But I never remember watching him and thought to myself that he was the best QB in the league.

 

[GetmethereForte]

Not to high jack, but in a 15 month period, Elways wife left him, his sister died of cancer, and he was scammed out of 15 million in a pyramid scheme. Terrible.

 

[Native]

Agree with the OP. I can think of 15 other QB's Id rather have over Elway. Horribly overrated.

 

[kinged]

Elway seemed to turn it on when behind, but I seem to remember his poor play would often be the reason they fell behind, then suddenly he would turn it on. It's a weird jekyll and Hyde type situation.. I know that's sacrilige to Elway fans, but that's how I rmember it.

I have no link, but I seem to remember one time someone posted a breakdwon of the % of times a QB brought a team back i nthe 4th quarter from being down.. Not who had the most times, but who had the conversion %. I beieve Elway was basically middle of the road, while Montan had the best %. In other words, if the Broncos were behind 75 times and he brought them back 25 times- its not really as good as someone who brings a team back 20 times out of 30. BTW- those #'s are mine just to make the point.

One great game I do remember was the KC/Den Monday night game in Montana's last year. Elway brought Denver back and ran in a go ahead td with about 90 seconds left. Then Montana oneupped him ,and drove KC for the winning Td with jsut a few seconds left. Was just a fantastic due between legends....

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I have no link, but I seem to remember one time someone posted a breakdwon of the % of times a QB brought a team back i nthe 4th quarter from being down.. Not who had the most times, but who had the conversion %. I beieve Elway was basically middle of the road, while Montan had the best %. In other words, if the Broncos were behind 75 times and he brought them back 25 times- its not really as good as someone who brings a team back 20 times out of 30. BTW- those #'s are mine just to make the point.

These would be interesting numbers to see. And REAL comeback victories (IE losing with under 5 mins left, none of this entire 4th quarter nonsense) along with it.I remember this came up with Big Ben once. He has a large number of "comeback" wins, but because of Pitt's combination of bad offense and good defense for much of his career, it led to tons of close 4th quarter games, and I believe someone ran the numbers that on an actual success ratio, his was no better than Rex Grossman's.In fact, it would be interested to see this with all QBs. Get rid of the entire 4th quarter stuff, move it down to the last 2-5 minutes and only when trailing (not tied), and run a success ratio on all the QBs and see who the REAL comback kings are.

 

[shredhead]

All you non believers need to watch this http://www.hulu.com/watch/137402/in-their-...ncos#s-p3-so-i3

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

I absolutely agree then dan marino is always shortchanged when his name is mentioned. In my opinion dan marino was the best qb ever and warren moon needs to be included in the conversation of top 5 qbs

This is one of the reasons why I think Jerry Rice is the best NFL player ever. You bring up qb, you get this, Unitas, Farve, Montana etc...same thing at RB. At WR, Rice is so much better at his position than anyone else that ever played it there's no real argument. Easily could be the best player I ever saw.

 

[cvnpoka]

Intangibles. Simple as that. Steve Nash only led assists in 04-05, and assists & ft pct in 05-06. Heck, he wasn't in top 5 in most of the other categories, yet he won back to back MVPs why is that?

bc nba mvp voter are morons.

 

[The Moz]

He was no stat stuffer thats for certain and isn't nearly a top 10 QB in terms of talent -- but with the game on the line is there another QB other than maybe Montana that you would rather be at QB? Yeah he only won 2 SB's at the end of his career when they had TD BUT!! he went to 3 more in his prime based pretty much solely on his shoulders. He wasn't a numbers QB he just won games.

 

[Ice Cream Man]

Agree with the OP. I can think of 15 other QB's Id rather have over Elway. Horribly overrated.

Watched a lot of old games during the 80's and I agree, I didn't think he was anything special. Numbers lie, but at the same time, stories and memories have a tendency to be romanticized.

 

[Chreesto]

Another thing about Elway, that is only evident to those who watched him, is his unbelievable raw ability. One of the hardest throwing Qbs I've ever seen. He and Favre are similar in that, at their peaks, they could make throws with just their arm (improper mechanics) that nobody else could dream of. I remember very distinctly a play in the late 80's where Elway was getting pressured and scrambled to his right, he basically was running backwards and sideways towards the sideline and right before he went out he launched a 40-50 yard bullet on a rope to Mark Jackson or Ricky Nattiel or some other less than amazing (but good enough) receiver. It was one of those plays that only a handful of Qbs in league history could have made, really only Favre comes to mind as someone else who could have done it. Like Favre he has a pretty high interception to Td ratio. The dude was a bit of a gambler and may have relied too much on his natural ability at times, but he left a lot of us with our jaws hanging. That is why Elway ranks where he ranks. Would he be the guy you'd choose over Montana, Brady or Manning to start a franchise? Probably not, but he might be the guy you'd pick to lead you back from an almost impossible deficit late in a game.

 

[cvnpoka]

i am old enough to remember all the hate elway got for never winning the big one. its kinda funny how quick that mentality changes.