John Lynch set to retire on Monday...one of the all time greats. (1 Viewer)

[gump]

He's overrated because there are a lot of people out there like you who think he is HOF caliber. He didn't force or recover a lot of fumbles. He didn't sack the QB. He wasn't a great pass defender. He didn't even average 5 tackles per game. He was a great hitter. Period. That's it.

Worst take of the day.He was a leader of one of the greatest defenses in NFL history. Obviously he did more than hit.

Fine, he was one of multiple leaders on a great defense. That doesn't change the substance of my post.I also think calling his Tampa Bay defense one of the greatest of all time is a stretch. They were the best defense in 2002, and they were a top 10 defense from roughly 1996 to 2005... but there are a lot of defenses in NFL history that were better.

"Top 10" is a good way to describe the '99 Bucs D...the one that held perhaps the best offense in NFL history to 11 points on the turf in the NFCC.They were above average.

1. Buffalo and Jacksonville had better defenses in 1999. Do you disagree?2. Since I mentioned 2002, and you mentioned 1999, is it safe to say that top 10 was a fair characterization for the other years I mentioned? Do you think defenses that are top 10 over a long stretch are typically among the best in NFL history? Or do you think a defense that is one of the top few defenses 2 times in a 4 year period is typically among the best in NFL history?

3. Please tell us where you think John Lynch's Tampa defenses rank in NFL history. Define it however you want - individual seasons, decades, whatever.

Well...since I'm not a numbers guru...I'll leave it to Football Outsiders and their DVOA (only '95 forward):1. Bucs D was #1 in 1999

2. Good question...but Bucs were both, so shouldn't matter.

3. Individually, the Lynch-led 2002 was the best in the last 15 years. Overall, the Bucs had the most consistency over that time as well.

Add on to this that the Bucs had the longest streak of top 10 defenses in NFL history...I think it's safe to say that D will be viewed historically as one of the best.

 

[Tau837]

He's overrated because there are a lot of people out there like you who think he is HOF caliber. He didn't force or recover a lot of fumbles. He didn't sack the QB. He wasn't a great pass defender. He didn't even average 5 tackles per game. He was a great hitter. Period. That's it.

Worst take of the day.He was a leader of one of the greatest defenses in NFL history. Obviously he did more than hit.

Fine, he was one of multiple leaders on a great defense. That doesn't change the substance of my post.I also think calling his Tampa Bay defense one of the greatest of all time is a stretch. They were the best defense in 2002, and they were a top 10 defense from roughly 1996 to 2005... but there are a lot of defenses in NFL history that were better.

"Top 10" is a good way to describe the '99 Bucs D...the one that held perhaps the best offense in NFL history to 11 points on the turf in the NFCC.They were above average.

1. Buffalo and Jacksonville had better defenses in 1999. Do you disagree?2. Since I mentioned 2002, and you mentioned 1999, is it safe to say that top 10 was a fair characterization for the other years I mentioned? Do you think defenses that are top 10 over a long stretch are typically among the best in NFL history? Or do you think a defense that is one of the top few defenses 2 times in a 4 year period is typically among the best in NFL history?

3. Please tell us where you think John Lynch's Tampa defenses rank in NFL history. Define it however you want - individual seasons, decades, whatever.

Well...since I'm not a numbers guru...I'll leave it to Football Outsiders and their DVOA (only '95 forward):1. Bucs D was #1 in 1999

2. Good question...but Bucs were both, so shouldn't matter.

3. Individually, the Lynch-led 2002 was the best in the last 15 years. Overall, the Bucs had the most consistency over that time as well.

Add on to this that the Bucs had the longest streak of top 10 defenses in NFL history...I think it's safe to say that D will be viewed historically as one of the best.

That is interesting that DVOA shows the Bucs D as the best in 1999. They were 3rd in points allowed and 3rd in yards allowed. Meanwhile, Jacksonville was 1st in points allowed and 4th in yards allowed, and Buffalo was 2nd in points allowed and 1st in yards allowed. I think a case could easily be made that Jacksonville and especially Buffalo were just as good if not better than Tampa in 1999.Looking at the DVOA stuff appears to show that in Lynch's last 7 years they had a top 10 defense, and over the last 5 of those years, they had a top 4 defense. That is a very good run. I don't know how that stacks up to other great defenses of the past. That is, I don't know how many other teams had a comparable 5 year run.

ETA: I don't really think this will be enough to get Lynch into the HOF, though.

 

[gump]

He's overrated because there are a lot of people out there like you who think he is HOF caliber. He didn't force or recover a lot of fumbles. He didn't sack the QB. He wasn't a great pass defender. He didn't even average 5 tackles per game. He was a great hitter. Period. That's it.

Worst take of the day.He was a leader of one of the greatest defenses in NFL history. Obviously he did more than hit.

Fine, he was one of multiple leaders on a great defense. That doesn't change the substance of my post.I also think calling his Tampa Bay defense one of the greatest of all time is a stretch. They were the best defense in 2002, and they were a top 10 defense from roughly 1996 to 2005... but there are a lot of defenses in NFL history that were better.

"Top 10" is a good way to describe the '99 Bucs D...the one that held perhaps the best offense in NFL history to 11 points on the turf in the NFCC.They were above average.

1. Buffalo and Jacksonville had better defenses in 1999. Do you disagree?2. Since I mentioned 2002, and you mentioned 1999, is it safe to say that top 10 was a fair characterization for the other years I mentioned? Do you think defenses that are top 10 over a long stretch are typically among the best in NFL history? Or do you think a defense that is one of the top few defenses 2 times in a 4 year period is typically among the best in NFL history?

3. Please tell us where you think John Lynch's Tampa defenses rank in NFL history. Define it however you want - individual seasons, decades, whatever.

Well...since I'm not a numbers guru...I'll leave it to Football Outsiders and their DVOA (only '95 forward):1. Bucs D was #1 in 1999

2. Good question...but Bucs were both, so shouldn't matter.

3. Individually, the Lynch-led 2002 was the best in the last 15 years. Overall, the Bucs had the most consistency over that time as well.

Add on to this that the Bucs had the longest streak of top 10 defenses in NFL history...I think it's safe to say that D will be viewed historically as one of the best.

That is interesting that DVOA shows the Bucs D as the best in 1999. They were 3rd in points allowed and 3rd in yards allowed. Meanwhile, Jacksonville was 1st in points allowed and 4th in yards allowed, and Buffalo was 2nd in points allowed and 1st in yards allowed. I think a case could easily be made that Jacksonville and especially Buffalo were just as good if not better than Tampa in 1999.Looking at the DVOA stuff appears to show that in Lynch's last 7 years they had a top 10 defense, and over the last 5 of those years, they had a top 4 defense. That is a very good run. I don't know how that stacks up to other great defenses of the past. That is, I don't know how many other teams had a comparable 5 year run.

ETA: I don't really think this will be enough to get Lynch into the HOF, though.

Sorry...misread #2. Let me re-answer:Since the Bucs were the only D in NFL history with a 10-year run like theirs, plus the best D in the 15 year span mentioned...I think they'll be viewed as one of the best due to both longevity and individually great seasons.

I actually think the '99 D was better...mostly because I think Hardy Nickerson was one of the best MLB in pass coverage I've ever seen, which is key in the Tampa 2. Throw in maybe the best OLB in pass coverage in NFL history in DB...and that D was sick. They peaked at the end of the season as well, shutting down one of the best offenses in NFL history on their home turf.