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John McCain (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
The Commish
Footballguy
Maybe it's gone up....last I saw they were down about 5-6 points with most of them being white women. I guess it could have gone up from the end of last year....not sure
There was also a 3-4 point increase of those who identified as independent at that time.
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tommyGunZ
Footballguy
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
A lot of that is simply a farce. We saw the same thing when conservatives got embarassed about calling themselves Republicans during the twilight of the Bush years and in the early Obama years. They'll call themselves independents, or tea partiers, or libertarians. And they'll continue to vote for Republicans.Maybe it's gone up....last I saw they were down about 5-6 points with most of them being white women. I guess it could have gone up from the end of last year....not sure
There was also a 3-4 point increase of those who identified as independent at that time.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Right - they're bowing out before they get voted out. But they're not leaving the Republican party because of Trump. They've embraced him.
As soon as Gowdy announced he wasn't running, he came out and said that if Trump is innocent, he should start acting like it. Very very few Republicans embrace Trump. They are caught in an impossible situation where they can't reveal their true feelings or they will get destroyed by the party. McCain is the perfect example. People can't wait for him to die because he actually spoke about what he thought was right and didn't pretend to think Trump was smart or a quality person. Currently, Lindsay Graham is the only Republican I know who doesn't kiss Trump's ### and is running for reelection. It's very rare. Bottom line is, the pretend to like Trump to save their jobs.
rockaction
Footballguy
I don't know where this narrative of McCain as casting party-line votes comes from. Is McCain-Feingold down?
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
I think that's bending over backwards to give those guys the benefit of the doubt. IMO, a more accurate way to determine a politician's views on Trump is to examine their words and their votes. And on that basis, they are all in with Trump.
So the part about needing to do that if they want to get reelected went over your head. I see.
rockaction
Footballguy
Yes, he's a Republican willing to work across the aisle on campaign financing and immigration.
Those are huge issues.
rockaction
Footballguy
Simply pointing out that a Republican president running on a generally Republican platform earns Republican support is like saying "water is wet."
Of course he's supporting a lot of Trump policies and nominations. They're both Rs right now.
He so far, according to 538, has opposed his Trump's foreign policy, trade policies (I think), and has in the past broke from his party on campaign financing and immigration.
What do you expect him to do, support Bernie Sanders?
eta* Just because he voted to repeal the ACA doesn't make him unwilling to work across the aisle on things. It might, to a Democrat, seem evil, but it's a perfectly respectable Republican position.
Of course he's supporting a lot of Trump policies and nominations. They're both Rs right now.
He so far, according to 538, has opposed his Trump's foreign policy, trade policies (I think), and has in the past broke from his party on campaign financing and immigration.
What do you expect him to do, support Bernie Sanders?
eta* Just because he voted to repeal the ACA doesn't make him unwilling to work across the aisle on things. It might, to a Democrat, seem evil, but it's a perfectly respectable Republican position.
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tommyGunZ
Footballguy
No, I expect McCain to continue supporting Trump's policies and positions on the issues. That's his MO.
rockaction
Footballguy
In a way, Trump ran on a Republican platform with several tweaks to it, so it's not like there's a particular brand of anything that Trump represents. He ran on immigration restrictions and trade and industry, and took an extreme Republican position on immigration and a blue collar one on trade and industry. But Trump is also a prototypical Republican, or has governed like one. Too much is made of Trumpism; not enough made of how traditionally Republican he is in everything but temperament.No, I expect McCain to continue supporting Trump's policies and positions on the issues. That's his MO.
And it's obvious that McCain doesn't like the guy.
rockaction
Footballguy
I don't think I said that. The main point I was trying to get across is that he has a history, unlike almost ninety percent of Congress, of reaching across the aisle to pass major legislation.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
You're right again. In his 35+ years in Congress, McCain has reached across the aisle a couple of times.
bagger
Footballguy
Totally agree. Too many republicans try to play it both ways. Speak out against his most outlandish statements but then vote right along his agenda and do nothing to check his constant pushing the boundaries of democracy.
you don’t get to vote with him on everything and then on the way out the door make a few statements to clear your conscience/
rockaction
Footballguy
When it comes to campaign finance reform and immigration, those are significant issues that most people aren't willing to reach across the aisle on because they're so integral to each party's platform.
So I think you guys are giving him short shrift here.
rockaction
Footballguy
But I happen to like him and wish him well. He's a fine man.
The Commish
Footballguy
It's always possible they could be lying. You asked for the data, so I gave you the best we have. If you don't believe it, or put little stock in it, oktommyGunZ said:A lot of that is simply a farce. We saw the same thing when conservatives got embarassed about calling themselves Republicans during the twilight of the Bush years and in the early Obama years. They'll call themselves independents, or tea partiers, or libertarians. And they'll continue to vote for Republicans.The Commish said:Maybe it's gone up....last I saw they were down about 5-6 points with most of them being white women. I guess it could have gone up from the end of last year....not sure
There was also a 3-4 point increase of those who identified as independent at that time.
We'll know for sure in a few months and in 2020 based on voting results, right?
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
This sort of undermines the point you're trying to make. Sure, McCain voted in favor of Trump's position a large percentage of the time. But a ton of those votes were boring issues where McCain was voting the way that any Republican would have voted. I mean, so what if McCain voted to confirm Trump's pick for Secretary of Agriculture?tommyGunZ said:
Edit: Of all the things I hate about Trump, most of them don't involve policy, or at least not the kind of policy that a legislator would be voting on. I didn't like the tax bill, and I despise Trump's stance on immigration. I also don't support repealing Obamacare, but realistically any Republican was going to come down on that side on that one. But mostly when I think of why I hate Trump, the first few things that come to mind involve his racism and misogyny, his overall lowering of our discourse, and his recklessly incompetent approach to foreign policy. None of those are items where McCain or any other senator can do much in terms of their votes.
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McCain differed on Trump on DACA in favor of a bipartisan bill that didn't include money for the wall saved the GOP from embarrassment by voting against a silly bill to overturn Obamacare. I am sure there are other issues of lessor note he opposed Trump on as well. Most importantly he dislikes Trump because of his lack of integrity and character.
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I've said this for a year now. If one single Republican office holder would have a moment of morality and actually take to a podium somewhere and say 'enough is enough' and make an epic, emotional, heartfelt speech about how he will no longer stand by quietly as this horrible criminal attempts to discredit the DOJ, FBI, and CIA in an attempt to get away with his years of lawbreaking, and plead to fellow Republicans to take a stand against this tyrant, he would go down in history as an American hero. The tide would turn and one by one the others would see public reaction and follow suit. It would save the Republican party and, more importantly, the country. But none of them have the spine. Not yet.
Good, then stop praising those that are leaving office. Their greatest responsibility in office is to check the power of the Executive Branch. Not take their ball and go home because they don't want to deal with the scrutiny of office.
NREC34
Footballguy
And that person would get primaried ASAP and never be heard from again. Therein lies the rub.
Not praising them. Simply pointing out that when the pressure of getting reelected is removed, these guys actually find the balls to speak their minds.
That's what stopping every single one of them. I know that. But you're wrong about the second part. It would start a movement. And suddenly other Republicans would grow a set. Those who are considered heroes in this country didn't necessarily take the easy path.
Definitely not the only people in the country who are afraid to speak their minds for fear of losing their jobs, but I do agree with you in principle. They were voted in to serve the country.
And the second they are asked to they run and hide. These people should be called out, not applauded, not treated like they are fulfilling some sort of service to us.
rockaction
Footballguy
I disagree. How's that? I think sometimes things are so untenable, you just leave. It becomes not worth it.
I was just conversating, not arguing. Just because you are a godless Eagles fan I don't have to argue with you about everything
ETA: Expressing my frustration out loud is probably a better phrase than conversating.
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Well it sounded aggressive and it hurt me. :(I was just conversating, not arguing. Just because you are a godless Eagles fan I don't have to argue with you about everything
ETA: Expressing my frustration out loud is probably a better phrase than conversating.
I'm sorry, I will purchase two Philadelphia Style Cheeseteaks today and say one injury recovery prayer for Carson Wentz as penance.
Although if you could let me know which God I should pray to that would be helpful, I'm assuming the collective population of Philadelphia had to sell it's soul to some deity for that Super Bowl.
dkp993
Footballguy
Go ahead and add a third prayer cuz my Rams are coming and Philly will need all the help they can get. ?Make it one cheesesteak and two prayers for Wentz and all will be forgiven.
Rams Vikings Saints and Packers with a healthy Rodgers. NFC is going to be brutal this year.
dkp993
Footballguy
No doubt. It's a toss up especially with the first 4 you mention. A good case can be made for any of those teams.
My house will be brutal this year, the wife's a die hard Vikes fan. Sundays will be fun this year!
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NREC34
Footballguy
SHIZNITTTT
Footballguy
SHIZNITTTT
Footballguy
https://nypost.com/2018/05/10/fox-business-analyst-slammed-for-attacking-john-mccain/
This idiot calls Senator McCain a songbird.
This idiot calls Senator McCain a songbird.
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
I like to drown one in Amaretto, revive it using bird CPR, drown it again in creme de menthe, then eat it with a towel over my head so God can't see.
timschochet
Footballguy
Great article by Charlie Sykes as to why Trump is jealous of the hero he himself can never be.
https://www.weeklystandard.com/charles-j-sykes/john-mccains-integrity-exposes-donald-trumps-true-character
https://www.weeklystandard.com/charles-j-sykes/john-mccains-integrity-exposes-donald-trumps-true-character
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