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John Skelton bandwagon (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter resko99
- Start date
JamesTheScot
Footballguy
Like many QB's that come into the league, he's raw. But he has some intriguing ability in terms of arm strength. And I recall seeing him featured in some sports science show before his rookie season where his release speed and maybe arm strength where examined and described as rare. So I think there's something there in terms of physical ability.
I'm cautiously optimistic. He has potential. The mental side of the game is what will determine his career trajectory, just like with most QB's. Clearly he has some work to do in that regard, but it isn't like he's uniquely hindered in that regard. I'm not seeing much different than what we could expect from any 2nd year QB who wasn't an early first round prospect.
I've had my eye on him since last year watching for signs of improvement. I just pulled the trigger on him yesterday in my main league dynasty auction. I figured that if I am going to get him cheap, it has to be now because I think Kolb is very vulnerable this year and if Skelton does anything to hold on to the starting gig, he'll be more expensive next year.
Obviously the front office has some loyalty to Kolb. Skelton won't have it handed to him. But winning is what counts and the longer Kolb struggles, the more likely Skelton is to get a long look.
I'm cautiously optimistic. He has potential. The mental side of the game is what will determine his career trajectory, just like with most QB's. Clearly he has some work to do in that regard, but it isn't like he's uniquely hindered in that regard. I'm not seeing much different than what we could expect from any 2nd year QB who wasn't an early first round prospect.
I've had my eye on him since last year watching for signs of improvement. I just pulled the trigger on him yesterday in my main league dynasty auction. I figured that if I am going to get him cheap, it has to be now because I think Kolb is very vulnerable this year and if Skelton does anything to hold on to the starting gig, he'll be more expensive next year.
Obviously the front office has some loyalty to Kolb. Skelton won't have it handed to him. But winning is what counts and the longer Kolb struggles, the more likely Skelton is to get a long look.
JamesTheScot
Footballguy
I don't see much difference in terms of Mallet and Skelton. Both have great arms but legit questions about whether they can adapt mentally to the complex NFL passing game. Mallet comes from a bigger school, but that doesn't mean much to me.
Why are you guys talking about Skelton like he's a new commodity? The guy has 11 starts under his belt over 2 years with the Cards...everyone knows what he can do...he's backup talent in the NFL, so is Kolb. He's just a better fantasy bet because he actually has the balls to throw it up to Fitz. Either way, I wouldn't have either as my QB2 or my taxi squad future QB.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
after the Kolb failure, Flynn not impressing in camp and Cassel just being avg in his KC career, no teams are going to be trading for another's back up to make them a starter anytime soon.
Sudoku_in_the_Bathtub
Footballguy
And I think this trend started with Flynn.Kolb is truly awful. We'd been better off with Kyle Orton....or Donovan McNabb. McNabb today could be at least as good as Kolb. Kolb's simply scared to stand in the pocket.------------In the case of Flynn vs. Russell Wilson. Flynn has zero experience advantage in that O and only a handful of games more NFL experience.For as good as his Lions performance was, Flynn should have had 2-3 more picks in that game. And you saw his physical limitations with his throws (balls floating/late on passes)No reason to give a high pick(s) & huge contract for an unproven middle of the road talent at QB.
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It worked out pretty well for, the Packers trading for Atlanta's back up some guy named Farve, I think? How about Seattle and a guy they got from Green Bay named Hasselback. To a lesser degree Fitzpatrick for Bills coming from St. Louis. I agree most good quarterbacks are drafted and groomed by their own team, but you can find good ones. Plus it is training camp I am not writing off Flynn just yet.
ItsOnlytheRiver
Footballguy
Fitzpatrick had at least one other stop (And a bunch of starts) between St. Louis and Buffalo.
And...he still sucks.
Shutout
Footballguy
Like him better than Kolb. He will step into a throw and not abandon the pocket quickly and, most importantly to MY fantasy teams, he will throw it to Fitz.
Re: the "teams won't trade for backups any time soon...". Poppycock. People are too premature on Flynn. Just because the Seahawks seem intent on wasting time acting like they have 3 different legit options (even after seeing 1st hand that TJAX was the reason they went out and got, not one, but TWO more QBs), doesn't mean that Flynn won't show soon enough that he will be fine there this year. I really liked Wilson at the college level but I think the height issue is going to pose a real barrier. We saw last night with Chase Daniel, who is the same height as Brees, that all 6'0" QBs are not the same. Daniel had a legit chance to have every pass tipped last night. Unless Wilson is like Brees and has unnaturally long arms and a delivery that looks like a catapult, I think he will have the same issues until he fixes them. Like his attitude, just think he's got some adjusting to do.
Teams WILL trade for a backup. Its different with each case but I would think a guy like Mallet or T.J. Yates and a few others would get interest. Other guys like McCoy, not so much. Its kinda like turning back the clock when it comes to the backup QB market: You're going to have to have the old-school size, arm, etc. The "System" guys will find it harder.
Re: the "teams won't trade for backups any time soon...". Poppycock. People are too premature on Flynn. Just because the Seahawks seem intent on wasting time acting like they have 3 different legit options (even after seeing 1st hand that TJAX was the reason they went out and got, not one, but TWO more QBs), doesn't mean that Flynn won't show soon enough that he will be fine there this year. I really liked Wilson at the college level but I think the height issue is going to pose a real barrier. We saw last night with Chase Daniel, who is the same height as Brees, that all 6'0" QBs are not the same. Daniel had a legit chance to have every pass tipped last night. Unless Wilson is like Brees and has unnaturally long arms and a delivery that looks like a catapult, I think he will have the same issues until he fixes them. Like his attitude, just think he's got some adjusting to do.
Teams WILL trade for a backup. Its different with each case but I would think a guy like Mallet or T.J. Yates and a few others would get interest. Other guys like McCoy, not so much. Its kinda like turning back the clock when it comes to the backup QB market: You're going to have to have the old-school size, arm, etc. The "System" guys will find it harder.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
Farve was great and Matt had anice little career, but those are the real only success stories. If Schuab ever stayed healthy for a season or 2 he could have an AFC Championship or SB. But for the most part, trading for another teams back up to make them a starter just doesn't work.
JamesTheScot
Footballguy
I think Waldman has addressed this issue and believes that Wilson has a delivery that somewhat mitigates his height disadvantage.
Shutout
Footballguy
I think its really hard to "know" until we actually see it. For all things that are the same and similar and measureable, there IS a difference when you are trying to play "over" NFL linemen vs. college and against NFL defenses vs. college. I really think Wilson can do the footwork that puts him in the spot to have clear lanes but who knows on the other parts. One thing that is good, we will get a chance to see really soon.
Inspiration
Footballguy
Richard Bartel was the QB on that play.
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Phlash
Footballguy
Well, the trend truly picked up after Matt Schaub was traded for two 2nd round draft picks and ended up being pretty damn good (if injury prone). Flynn will be the end of it, most likely.
It will never end. You know why? Because men coach football, and have egos, and think they are smarter than everyone else, so they think can fix any problem or make anyone better. Trading for backups fail quite a bit, but then someone hits a home run (like Farve) and everyone thinks they can do it too.Well, the trend truly picked up after Matt Schaub was traded for two 2nd round draft picks and ended up being pretty damn good (if injury prone). Flynn will be the end of it, most likely.
ponchsox
Footballguy
No thanks, I'll walk.
K and thanks for sharing.
I probably should have mentioned that the leagues I've rostered him in are a start 2 QB and a superflex where QB can be the flex. I'm not looking for top 10 upside this year but he has got to have mid QB #2 upside especially with Fitz.Meatwad Reloaded
Footballguy
great analysis...with the qbs out there, there is no way this guy is even qb 2 unless we are talking 14 team league...now, lightning has been known to strike and you could end up with a great season from him, but there is no way I draft him, I would say there is a 5% chance of him blowing up, their o - line is pretty bad. Best case scenario is that you rotate weeks where he scores 20 - 25 points with weeks where he scores -3 - 9 points.nothing is worse that playing qb roulette during a fantasy season imo.
I'm gonna have to disagree here. He threw for 1900 yards in 8 games (and not all were full games). Thats 3800 on a full season. Plus He is young (24) and as raw as he is, seems to be learning the Pro game quickly.
Beerguzzler
Footballguy
Stay far far away from any Phoenix QB. There's enough tape on both of them by now to know they both suck. Cards will be picking a QB round 1 next year.
Really? Gotta admit I havn't watched all that much tape, but what is it you don't like about Skelton?
Hoss Style
Footballguy
I know someone touched on this earlier, but as a Fitz owner I do know that he did better with Skelton at the helm.
I haven't seen much on tape or live, though, so I'm not sure why that happened. Was he making better throws? Did he just have the onions to throw it to Fitz even when he was covered and Fitz made the play? Was he better in the pocket? Someone with more knowledge on the QBs can tell you about that. I just know Fitz-stock goes slightly up with Skelton - therefore I'm on the bandwagon (kind of...).
I haven't seen much on tape or live, though, so I'm not sure why that happened. Was he making better throws? Did he just have the onions to throw it to Fitz even when he was covered and Fitz made the play? Was he better in the pocket? Someone with more knowledge on the QBs can tell you about that. I just know Fitz-stock goes slightly up with Skelton - therefore I'm on the bandwagon (kind of...).
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Hoss Style
Footballguy
Ok, after my last post I got to thinking, "Does Skelton really get Fitz the ball more/better than Kolb?" Since it's a bit slow this morning I went and looked.
Fitz with Kolb
3/62/0
7/133/1
5/64/1
8/102/0
4/66/0
4/78/0
3/98/0
4/55/0
Fitz with Skelton
4/43/1
7/146/2
3/41/1 (Skelton/Bartel)
3/55/0
7/149/1
3/65/0
6/105/1
9/149/0
Although Kolb had a few good game with Fitz it seems that Skelton is better for him in every catagory. Kolb got it to Fitz 4.75 times a game. Skelton got it to him 5.25 - about one more pass completed every 2 games. Kolb - 82.25 ypg to Fitz. Skelton got 94.13 ypg to him. As for TDs Kolb got Fitz 0.25 a game (2 total). Skelton tossed him 0.63 per game (5 total - took out the one that Bartel threw to Fitz).
I don't know what any of this means other than the fact that I own Fitz and prefer it when Skelton starts. As to what this means in real life and each QB's skill - I'll let others with more knowledge speak on that.
Fitz with Kolb
3/62/0
7/133/1
5/64/1
8/102/0
4/66/0
4/78/0
3/98/0
4/55/0
Fitz with Skelton
4/43/1
7/146/2
3/41/1 (Skelton/Bartel)
3/55/0
7/149/1
3/65/0
6/105/1
9/149/0
Although Kolb had a few good game with Fitz it seems that Skelton is better for him in every catagory. Kolb got it to Fitz 4.75 times a game. Skelton got it to him 5.25 - about one more pass completed every 2 games. Kolb - 82.25 ypg to Fitz. Skelton got 94.13 ypg to him. As for TDs Kolb got Fitz 0.25 a game (2 total). Skelton tossed him 0.63 per game (5 total - took out the one that Bartel threw to Fitz).
I don't know what any of this means other than the fact that I own Fitz and prefer it when Skelton starts. As to what this means in real life and each QB's skill - I'll let others with more knowledge speak on that.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
All that plus, Flynn was actually a free agent signing. Seattle did not trade anything for him.
Ketamine Dreams
Footballguy
Granted he hasn't shown a whole lot yet, but we knew he's a raw project. Given more time in practice and in game situations, it's possible that he starts to 'get it' and matures. I certainly don't predict he'll become a fantasy stud, but he does seem to have the physical attributes needed to play the game. He does appear to have a decent chance at becoming the starter there this year. He has Fitz and some developing young targets at WR and at TE. In deep leagues, especially dynasty leagues, I think he's worth a flier. Pick him up and let him sit on your bench for awhile. He's probably more likely to flame than to succeed, but there's a chance he develops into something this year.
Skelton is cheap value who has the upside to put up 3600-4000 yds and maybe 18-24 td's. I believe he has some pretty good wr's to work with including Fitz. I think Blackmon can only help as the season goes on. Housler is a big target at TE. The backfeild is still a question mark and that's why Skelton gunslinger mentality is the best weapon they have in AZ. In a start 2 qb league or superflex type league he has good value, a starters value. You will just have to watch some starts against the strongest defenses, but that is true with any non top 12 type position player. I would target/draft him ahead of about 10-12 other qbs in my 2 qb redrafts this year if he is declared the starter. If he is the starter at the 1st game, I see no way they go back to Kolb again later. Kolb only has a foothold in the battle due to the contract and trade cost. If he loses out in the battle, Kolb has no value any longer and they will see what they have with Skelton for the long haul. Otherwise they need to think about the next draft and that qb batch. My 2 cents worth on the situation.
I can guarantee you Blackmon will in no way help Skelton.
I'm actually keeping an eye on the QBs in Zona s a possible low end #2. May be worthless, may be not. If one of them improves, it could be a dynamic offense.
Warpig
Footballguy
I also recall some guy by the name of Mark Brunell being picked up from GB. He was collecting dust on the bench behind some scrub named Brett Favre.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
In dynasty Skelton was a guy you could scoop off the WW and stash until recently. I think his accuracy issues will probably mean he's not a long term guy, but sometimes guys surprise -- especially small school guys. If he pans out you land a long-term QB2 for nothing. If he doesn't you cut him and have lost nothing. There's only upside, no risk.
Warpig
Footballguy
You and I may not know what his throwing motion is like since we haven't seen it, but pretty sure the scouts would know and the beat writers and aren't they the ones saying his throwing motion compensates for his height?Not only is Brees a comparison, but ofcourse Doug Flutie and Philip Rivers has/had a weird throwing motion and they are/were successful in the league.
mr roboto
Footballguy
Emphasis on 'could'. I drafted him in the 4th round in a rookie draft (2QB league). But now people are wondering if he is worth acquiring. That's a much tougher question than if he's worth a ww pickup or not.
biju
Footballguy
Both have looked like garbage. Unless you're in a 2 QB league I wouldn't be concerned with either of these guys. The QBOTF isn't on this roster.
Routilla
Footballguy
I am indeed.
Abraham
Footballguy
They can't bench kolb and bring him back when Skelton stinks. What would happen if kolb came on in week 8 and played well? It would cost them a shot at a top qb an piss off the fans. No, the only way to roll is to start kolb and think of it as a no lose situation: if he is good and you win, well, you are winning. If he stinks and you pull him for Skelton, you can start scouting Barkley or bray and not look back.
fatness
Footballguy
Even if both QB's stink all year, I don't think Arizona is a bad enough team to be able to count on a real high draft pick.
Abraham
Footballguy
There will be no fewer than 3 qbs in the top 15 (Barkley, jones, Wilson). None of the three are likely to go in the top 5. Bray and Murray both have a chance to come out early and be top 20 picks.
kutta
Footballguy
I disagree. I really think Skelton is going to be the week 1 starter.All he has to do is play decently Thursday night and the job is his. Wiz has said Skelton will probably play into the 2nd half on Thursday, which is a good indication that he will start week 1.I was at the game last week, and it the fan base truly does not want Kolb and does want Skelton. Kolb was booed at the start of the game, and Skelton got a huge ovation when he came in. The only way the fans are going to be pissed off is if Kolb is the starter week 1.
bagger
Footballguy
^hell fans were booing kolb in training camp.kolb is only due 1mm for salary in the season. they ate the 7.5mm in march or whenever so it really comes down to skelton starting, kolb is the backup and will be released at the end of the year as he is due 9mm next season.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Skelton is not a good QB, nor is he better than Kevin Kolb. This is all media driving. The Kolb I knew in Philly (and early last season) was winning player of the week in most of his spot starts. He took a couple shots to the head thanks to Levi Brown and has never looked the same. The way the fans and media is treating Kolb he probably holds no value in Arizona. I gave up on Kolb after he didn't do anything vs Minn last year, he just didn't look right. I thought this would be the year to see what type of player he really is, Roberts - Floyd- Fitz is a hell of a receiving core, but he wont make it in Ari the way he gets portrayed on TV.
I don't understand why people think Skelton is any good. When he started last year he was horrible, the Arizona defense happen to turn stellar and so did the special teams. His first two game he went for 4td-2int on 55% passing. Then he threw 7td-12int in the rest of his games played, which probably mean the scouting report is out on him. But he happened to go 6-2 so the fans and media thinks "uhh Skelton - Kolb = wins" so they create a controversy . Just because your team wins doesn't mean you played well. The Rams game they won because of a KO return in OT. The other Rams game he had 0 TD and 2 picks, how do you give a guy credit for winning games like that?
Kolb and Skelton had almost the same amount of work last year. One guy had a better comp%, higher ypa, 2 less td and 6 less ints in less attempts. Somehow he's considered the worse of the two, I don't get it.. And just because you throw the ball hard that doesn't make you Bret Favre.
I don't understand why people think Skelton is any good. When he started last year he was horrible, the Arizona defense happen to turn stellar and so did the special teams. His first two game he went for 4td-2int on 55% passing. Then he threw 7td-12int in the rest of his games played, which probably mean the scouting report is out on him. But he happened to go 6-2 so the fans and media thinks "uhh Skelton - Kolb = wins" so they create a controversy . Just because your team wins doesn't mean you played well. The Rams game they won because of a KO return in OT. The other Rams game he had 0 TD and 2 picks, how do you give a guy credit for winning games like that?
Kolb and Skelton had almost the same amount of work last year. One guy had a better comp%, higher ypa, 2 less td and 6 less ints in less attempts. Somehow he's considered the worse of the two, I don't get it.. And just because you throw the ball hard that doesn't make you Bret Favre.
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kutta
Footballguy
You really don't have a clue about the AZ fans. We don't give a darn about the wins that Skelton had. We obviously know many of those games could have gone either way.The two things Skelton did was he stood in the pocket and he threw the ball to Fitz. That's why the fans like him. We see the potential in him. We see nothing in Kolb.
The Hank
Footballguy
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
This is my point exactly, he's already written off as terrible. Most qb's struggle their first season as a starter, the real indicator is how do adjust in your 2nd year, 3rd year ect... I was watching the last preseason game and Kolb marched the team down the field for a td and looked great, it just so happened the td was a run opposed to Skelton throwing a 3 yd td. The next series he couldn't get his feet set and was getting sacked, even gave up a safety. One play he escaped the blitz and thew a pass on the money to a receiver but he was out of bounds. The other throws he had pressure in his face and threw the ball away, thats better than a turn over or a sack. I think Kollb has something but the media and FANS think he's terrible, he's done in Arizona. Skelton makes horrible decisions. If you'd rather have a guy just throw to Fitz, you have him. But don't forget the Warner days when 3 guys were serious threats. Arizona is close to having that personnel now at wr and TE. Aside from fantasy football I can't fathom why you would just want your qb to not be capable of spreading the ball around.'kutta said:
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