Johnson/Peterson (1 Viewer)

[fruity pebbles]

Here's some speculation on Peterson's role if drafted by the Browns. Could effect early results I guess.

Browns buzz now centers on Sooner

Browns buzz now centers on Sooner

Saturday, February 24, 2007

Tony Grossi

Plain Dealer Reporter

Indianapolis- The buzz at the NFL combine is that the Browns are leaning toward taking Oklahoma running back Adrian Peterson with the third pick in the draft.

"I'm picking that up," Peterson said with a grin on Friday.

How does the top-rated running back in the draft feel about that?

"Cleveland is a great town," he said. "They've got some Sooners down there already. I wouldn't mind being a Cleveland Brown."

Browns General Manager Phil Savage has run a pipeline to Norman, Okla. In 2005, he selected Sooners safety Brodney Pool and cornerback Antonio Perkins. Last year, he took receiver Travis Wilson.

Peterson would be the most spectacular Oklahoma player to come to Cleveland since Greg Pruitt. The rewards of taking him are immense, but the risks are great, too.

Peterson's injury history reads like a script of Grey's Anatomy.

As a freshman in 2004, Peterson dislocated his left shoulder in fall drills and reinjured it several times during the season. He had surgery in January 2005.

As a sophomore in 2005, he missed all or parts of four games with a right high ankle sprain.

As a junior in 2006, he fractured his left collarbone diving into the end zone in the middle of the year and missed seven games. He came back to play in the epic Fiesta Bowl game against Boise State.

"I think it shows a lot about what he's made of when he decided to come back and play in the bowl game," Savage said Friday. "He didn't have anything to gain and certainly had something to lose."

Peterson has more to prove here, which is why he has elected to participate in all running back drills scheduled for Sunday. He is peppered with questions about durability and injuries.

"The only injury I'm dealing with now is the collarbone injury," Peterson said. "A couple of doctors are saying there's no surgery required, and it's going to heal on its own. And when it heals, it'll be stronger than before. I'm just focusing on going out Sunday and performing."

Injuries aside, there is not much else to question about the 6-1½, 217-pound runner.

"He is the total package," said Lions coach Rod Marinelli, who might be eyeing Peterson with the No. 2 pick.

At Oklahoma, Peterson was healthy for the equivalent of two seasons. He finished third on the running back-rich school's all-time rushing list with 4,045 yards. He averaged 5.4 yards a carry. If he had been healthy four years, Peterson would have shattered the all-time NCAA rushing record.

"It was a missed opportunity, but I have no regrets," Peterson said. "Everything happens for a reason. Whatever happened in the past, I'm looking forward to going into the NFL. It's my dream."

The Browns would like to join the NFL trend of dividing their rushing load among two feature backs. They can see Peterson, a home-run threat, and Reuben Droughns complementing each other well. Indianapolis and Chicago employed that style to get to the Super Bowl. Anthony Lynn, the Browns' new running backs coach, saw it work in Dallas, too.

"Running backs take a pounding," coach Romeo Crennel said Friday. "If you have two guys that you feel can get the job done, then it makes it easier for those guys to last a whole year.

"Reuben, he got nicked up in the second game on that hit [to his shoulder] at Cincinnati. That impacted how some of the season went for him. If you have another guy you can rotate in there and take some of the pressure and contact off him, I think that can work pretty good. The difference is that you got to have two. If you got two, you can use them."

Some draft publications have compared Peterson to Hall of Famer Eric Dickerson because of their size, strength, speed and upright running style.

"He's an explosive runner," Savage said. "Every time he touches [the football], there's a chance he can take it the distance. He's the kind of runner that will have four or five of what you would characterize as ordinary runs and then he explodes for a 50-60-yard run.

"All the reports we've heard from OU are extremely positive on him in terms of toughness, temperament, demeanor. Those are all qualities we're looking for in a player."

The question of durability remains.

To reach this Plain Dealer reporter:

tgrossi@plaind.com, 216-999-4670

Have to be diplomatic. Don't want to piss off their current starting runningback in case they don't take Peterson.

 

[lod2005]

In all reality, this thread should be called Johnson vs Lynch. As I have said all along, Lynch is superior to Peterson.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/article.php?id=6486

 

[EBF]

But in some formats, Calvin is a very viable choice as the 1.01 pick. Keep in mind that it's not all about the short-term. Consider the following questions:1996Top RB: Eddie GeorgeTop WR: Marvin Harrison, Terrell OwensWho had more value in 1997? Who has more value now? 1998 Top RB: Fred TaylorTop WR: Randy MossWho had more value in 1999? Who has more value now? 1999Top RB: Edgerrin JamesTop WR: Torry HoltWho had more value in 2000? Who has more value now?Great WRs can sometimes carry much greater long-term dynasty value than great RBs. Eddie George would've been great to own from 1996-2001, but Marvin Harrison and Terrell Owens have been far more valuable for the past five years. I think there's a very good chance that Peterson will carry more trade value than Johnson after one year. That doesn't mean he'll end up being the more valuable commodity in the long haul.

Since you mentioned it, in the standard FBG scoring system (0 PPR), here's how the players you mentioned have fared:(First year fantasy value, career fantasy value)Eddie George, 78, 556Marvin Harrison, 17, 809Terrell Owens, 0, 649Fred Taylor, 139, 421 Randy Moss, 111, 674Edgerrin James, 186, 682Torry Holt, 0, 515Harrison, Owens, Moss, and Holt happened to go on to have HOF worhty careers. Many other Top 10 overall (NFL Draft) have not. Sure, if you knew without a doubt that a WR was going to come in an be dominant for 10+ years than grabbing a WR is probably a better plan. But how many WRs are actually DOMINANT for a full 10 years?

I see your point, but if you're going to make that argument then you also have to acknowledge the risk of Peterson becoming another Curtis Enis, Ki-Jana Carter, Tim Biakabutuka, William Green, etc. I think the interesting point here is that top rookie RBs usually hold far more value than top rookie WRs after their rookie seasons. If you draft Peterson and he has a decent rookie year, you'll quite probably be able to trade him for Johnson and more after their rookie year.

 

[ThePittbully]

Just wait for the cluster ford if Denver drafts Marshawn. Lynch would definitely go in the #1 spot in a lot of drafts.

Yea I have 1.1 and 1.2, and I'm extremely high on CJ. If Marshawn would goto Denver I dont know what I would do, it would make things much more difficult

 

[BigTex]

Doesn't the high WR bust rate for top 10 picks bother you guys. 1995-2004 WRs picked in the top 10.

In a word? No. Almost none of those guys carried the kind of grades that Calvin Johnson carries. I hear that most teams have him listed as the #1 player on their board. The only comparable talents from recent drafts are Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, and Charles Rogers. Two of those guys are stars. The other one failed more because of character issues than lack of talent (Rogers was 6'2" with 4.3 speed and plenty of football skills). Every indication is that Calvin Johnson is not a moronic dope fiend like Rogers. At a certain point, you have to trust your eyes. It only takes a few minutes of watching #21 to know he's going to be a player in the NFL. Like I've been saying, the worst case scenario is a Keyshawn Johnson type career. The best case scenario is production along the lines of what we saw from Moss and TO in their best years.

Larry Fitz is really the only valuable one out of those 3 though. Rogers is obviously worthless. AJ can be had for a decent #2 RB. If you hot on the runningback, ala LT or Steven Jackson, he's worth triple what even a great WR is worth. Runningbacks also tend to be worth more for longer even if they're not performing. Benson hasn't really done much of anything, yet he still has considerable value in dynasty leagues. Wrs have to hit almost right off the bat to keep their value or it plummets. Troy Williamson can be had right now for a bag of peanuts.

Steven Jackson is a best case scenario and he's not worth triple a great WR. In my PPR league, Andre Johnson had a higher weekly average than Chester Taylor, Shaun Alexander, Rudi Johnson, Ronnie Brown, Joseph Addai, and Edgerrin James. That was with David Carr throwing him passes. I don't think anyone is arguing that Peterson/Lynch aren't better picks in most formats. In a non-PPR league that requires you to start at least 2 RBs, the RBs hold much more value than Johnson. But in some formats, Calvin is a very viable choice as the 1.01 pick. Keep in mind that it's not all about the short-term. Consider the following questions:1996Top RB: Eddie GeorgeTop WR: Marvin Harrison, Terrell OwensWho had more value in 1997? Who has more value now? 1998 Top RB: Fred TaylorTop WR: Randy MossWho had more value in 1999? Who has more value now? 1999Top RB: Edgerrin JamesTop WR: Torry HoltWho had more value in 2000? Who has more value now?Great WRs can sometimes carry much greater long-term dynasty value than great RBs. Eddie George would've been great to own from 1996-2001, but Marvin Harrison and Terrell Owens have been far more valuable for the past five years. I think there's a very good chance that Peterson will carry more trade value than Johnson after one year. That doesn't mean he'll end up being the more valuable commodity in the long haul.

1997Top RB: Warrick DunnTop WR: Ike HilliardWho had more value in 1998? Who has more value now?2000Top RB: Jamal LewisTop WR: Peter WarrickWho had more value in 2001? Who has more value now?2001Top RB: LaDainian TomlinsonTop WR: David TerrellWho had more value in 2002? Who has more value now?2002Top RB: Clinton PortisTop WR: Donte' Stallworth/Javon WalkerWho had more value in 2003? Who has more value now?2003Top RB: Larry JohnsonTop WR: Andre JohnsonWho had more value in 2004? Who has more value now?2004Top RB: Steven JacksonTop WR: Larry FitzgeraldWho had more value in 2005? Who has more value now?2005Top RB: Ronnie BrownTop WR: Braylon EdwardsWho had more value in 2006? Who has more value now?2006Top RB: Reggie BushTop WR: Santonio HolmesWho has more value now?Conclusion from our history lesson: RB>>>>>>>>>>>>>WR

 

[Eggbert34]

RB's make dynastys period...if you have RB's you can win, you can have CJ or Steve Smith and it doesnt matter. You have LT and you almost make playoffs every year. So i wouldnt take CJ #1 no matter what

 

[Eggbert34]

Doesn't the high WR bust rate for top 10 picks bother you guys. 1995-2004 WRs picked in the top 10.

In a word? No. Almost none of those guys carried the kind of grades that Calvin Johnson carries. I hear that most teams have him listed as the #1 player on their board. The only comparable talents from recent drafts are Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, and Charles Rogers. Two of those guys are stars. The other one failed more because of character issues than lack of talent (Rogers was 6'2" with 4.3 speed and plenty of football skills). Every indication is that Calvin Johnson is not a moronic dope fiend like Rogers. At a certain point, you have to trust your eyes. It only takes a few minutes of watching #21 to know he's going to be a player in the NFL. Like I've been saying, the worst case scenario is a Keyshawn Johnson type career. The best case scenario is production along the lines of what we saw from Moss and TO in their best years.

Larry Fitz is really the only valuable one out of those 3 though. Rogers is obviously worthless. AJ can be had for a decent #2 RB. If you hot on the runningback, ala LT or Steven Jackson, he's worth triple what even a great WR is worth. Runningbacks also tend to be worth more for longer even if they're not performing. Benson hasn't really done much of anything, yet he still has considerable value in dynasty leagues. Wrs have to hit almost right off the bat to keep their value or it plummets. Troy Williamson can be had right now for a bag of peanuts.

Steven Jackson is a best case scenario and he's not worth triple a great WR. In my PPR league, Andre Johnson had a higher weekly average than Chester Taylor, Shaun Alexander, Rudi Johnson, Ronnie Brown, Joseph Addai, and Edgerrin James. That was with David Carr throwing him passes. I don't think anyone is arguing that Peterson/Lynch aren't better picks in most formats. In a non-PPR league that requires you to start at least 2 RBs, the RBs hold much more value than Johnson. But in some formats, Calvin is a very viable choice as the 1.01 pick. Keep in mind that it's not all about the short-term. Consider the following questions:1996Top RB: Eddie GeorgeTop WR: Marvin Harrison, Terrell OwensWho had more value in 1997? Who has more value now? 1998 Top RB: Fred TaylorTop WR: Randy MossWho had more value in 1999? Who has more value now? 1999Top RB: Edgerrin JamesTop WR: Torry HoltWho had more value in 2000? Who has more value now?Great WRs can sometimes carry much greater long-term dynasty value than great RBs. Eddie George would've been great to own from 1996-2001, but Marvin Harrison and Terrell Owens have been far more valuable for the past five years. I think there's a very good chance that Peterson will carry more trade value than Johnson after one year. That doesn't mean he'll end up being the more valuable commodity in the long haul.

1997Top RB: Warrick DunnTop WR: Ike HilliardWho had more value in 1998? Who has more value now?2000Top RB: Jamal LewisTop WR: Peter WarrickWho had more value in 2001? Who has more value now?2001Top RB: LaDainian TomlinsonTop WR: David TerrellWho had more value in 2002? Who has more value now?2002Top RB: Clinton PortisTop WR: Donte' Stallworth/Javon WalkerWho had more value in 2003? Who has more value now?2003Top RB: Larry JohnsonTop WR: Andre JohnsonWho had more value in 2004? Who has more value now?2004Top RB: Steven JacksonTop WR: Larry FitzgeraldWho had more value in 2005? Who has more value now?2005Top RB: Ronnie BrownTop WR: Braylon EdwardsWho had more value in 2006? Who has more value now?2006Top RB: Reggie BushTop WR: Santonio HolmesWho has more value now?Conclusion from our history lesson: RB>>>>>>>>>>>>>WR

 

[santo71]

So the combine for these guys has made this an even muddier picture. These dudes are good, no doubt, but Peterson is worth a lot more than CJ to a team that wants to win within a 3-5 year stretch.

Having said that, if you take the real long term approach and feel like you can be a contender every year, and have drafted accordingly, I can see where CJ has more value.

I don't know man, this is a real tough draft if you have 1.1, you have to pick a strategy and stick with it.

 

[noneother]

So the combine for these guys has made this an even muddier picture. These dudes are good, no doubt, but Peterson is worth a lot more than CJ to a team that wants to win within a 3-5 year stretch.Having said that, if you take the real long term approach and feel like you can be a contender every year, and have drafted accordingly, I can see where CJ has more value. I don't know man, this is a real tough draft if you have 1.1, you have to pick a strategy and stick with it.

if you are rebuilding, or building, and you have the 1.1 your team might not be good enough to take advantage of AD in that timeframe, maybe CJ is the way to go....get mcfaddon or slaton next year...

 

[KoolKat]

Doesn't the high WR bust rate for top 10 picks bother you guys. 1995-2004 WRs picked in the top 10.

In a word? No. Almost none of those guys carried the kind of grades that Calvin Johnson carries. I hear that most teams have him listed as the #1 player on their board. The only comparable talents from recent drafts are Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, and Charles Rogers. Two of those guys are stars. The other one failed more because of character issues than lack of talent (Rogers was 6'2" with 4.3 speed and plenty of football skills). Every indication is that Calvin Johnson is not a moronic dope fiend like Rogers. At a certain point, you have to trust your eyes. It only takes a few minutes of watching #21 to know he's going to be a player in the NFL. Like I've been saying, the worst case scenario is a Keyshawn Johnson type career. The best case scenario is production along the lines of what we saw from Moss and TO in their best years.

Larry Fitz is really the only valuable one out of those 3 though. Rogers is obviously worthless. AJ can be had for a decent #2 RB. If you hot on the runningback, ala LT or Steven Jackson, he's worth triple what even a great WR is worth. Runningbacks also tend to be worth more for longer even if they're not performing. Benson hasn't really done much of anything, yet he still has considerable value in dynasty leagues. Wrs have to hit almost right off the bat to keep their value or it plummets. Troy Williamson can be had right now for a bag of peanuts.

Steven Jackson is a best case scenario and he's not worth triple a great WR. In my PPR league, Andre Johnson had a higher weekly average than Chester Taylor, Shaun Alexander, Rudi Johnson, Ronnie Brown, Joseph Addai, and Edgerrin James. That was with David Carr throwing him passes. I don't think anyone is arguing that Peterson/Lynch aren't better picks in most formats. In a non-PPR league that requires you to start at least 2 RBs, the RBs hold much more value than Johnson. But in some formats, Calvin is a very viable choice as the 1.01 pick. Keep in mind that it's not all about the short-term. Consider the following questions:1996Top RB: Eddie GeorgeTop WR: Marvin Harrison, Terrell OwensWho had more value in 1997? Who has more value now? 1998 Top RB: Fred TaylorTop WR: Randy MossWho had more value in 1999? Who has more value now? 1999Top RB: Edgerrin JamesTop WR: Torry HoltWho had more value in 2000? Who has more value now?Great WRs can sometimes carry much greater long-term dynasty value than great RBs. Eddie George would've been great to own from 1996-2001, but Marvin Harrison and Terrell Owens have been far more valuable for the past five years. I think there's a very good chance that Peterson will carry more trade value than Johnson after one year. That doesn't mean he'll end up being the more valuable commodity in the long haul.

1997Top RB: Warrick DunnTop WR: Ike HilliardWho had more value in 1998? Who has more value now?2000Top RB: Jamal LewisTop WR: Peter WarrickWho had more value in 2001? Who has more value now?2001Top RB: LaDainian TomlinsonTop WR: David TerrellWho had more value in 2002? Who has more value now?2002Top RB: Clinton PortisTop WR: Donte' Stallworth/Javon WalkerWho had more value in 2003? Who has more value now?2003Top RB: Larry JohnsonTop WR: Andre JohnsonWho had more value in 2004? Who has more value now?2004Top RB: Steven JacksonTop WR: Larry FitzgeraldWho had more value in 2005? Who has more value now?2005Top RB: Ronnie BrownTop WR: Braylon EdwardsWho had more value in 2006? Who has more value now?2006Top RB: Reggie BushTop WR: Santonio HolmesWho has more value now?Conclusion from our history lesson: RB>>>>>>>>>>>>>WR

I'd say this situation is more like the Larry Fitzgerald Season, and SJax wasn't the undisputed #1 RB, many teams took Kevin Jones. And until this season Fitzgerald had held more value than both of them. I think the pick depends on whether your league is PPR and Start 3 WR. Mine is, I'll take CJ.

 

[David Yudkin]

To better flesh out this discussion, here are all the RBs and WRs that were Top 10 NFL draft picks fromthe past 25 years and how they've done. A couple of them were supplemental draft picks which muddies the waters a bit, but at least this is full discluosure of how guys have done.

Player, first year fantasy value, career fantasy value

Barry Sanders, 139, 1235

Marshall Faulk, 125, 1164

LaDainian Tomlinson, 85, 1013

Eric Dickerson, 191, 887

Marcus Allen, 203, 884

Edgerrin James, 186, 682

Jerome Bettis, 97, 434

Fred Taylor, 139, 421

Curt Warner, 111, 406

Ricky Williams, 0, 380

Gerald Riggs, 0, 303

Jamal Lewis, 43, 296

Garrison Hearst, 0, 246

Bobby Humphrey, 63, 116

Thomas Jones, 0, 92

Keith Byars, 0, 82

Mike Rozier, 0, 58

Darrin Nelson, 0, 48

Curtis Enis, 0, 26

Sammie Smith, 0, 26

Cadillac Williams, 19, 19

Reggie Bush, 17, 17

Brent Fullwood, 0, 13

Bo Jackson, 6, 6

Ronnie Brown, 1, 1

Cedric Benson, 0, 0

Lawrence Phillips, 0, 0

Tim Biakabutuka, 0, 0

Ki-Jana Carter, 0, 0

Tommy Vardell, 0, 0

Blair Thomas, 0, 0

Tim Worley, 0, 0

Alonzo Highsmith, 0, 0

Michael Haddix, 0, 0

Cris Carter, 0, 624

Tim Brown, 5, 535

Torry Holt, 0, 515

Sterling Sharpe, 0, 496

Herman Moore, 0, 394

Joey Galloway, 48, 312

Irving Fryar, 0, 278

Keyshawn Johnson, 17, 193

Rob Moore, 0, 165

Terry Glenn, 38, 158

David Boston, 0, 157

Plaxico Burress, 0, 156

Curtis Conway, 0, 149

Al Toon, 0, 146

Larry Fitzgerald, 0, 103

Andre Johnson, 16, 70

Roy Williams, 2, 59

Michael Westbrook, 0, 57

Koren Robinson, 0, 50

Peter Warrick, 0, 34

Ike Hilliard, 0, 18

Travis Taylor, 0, 13

Braylon Edwards, 0, 9

JJ Stokes, 0, 2

Troy Williamson, 0, 0

Mike Williams, 0, 0

Reggie Williams, 0, 0

Charles Rogers, 0, 0

David Terrell, 0, 0

Desmond Howard, 0, 0

Joey Jones, 0, 0

Kenny Jackson, 0, 0

 

[santo71]

To better flesh out this discussion, here are all the RBs and WRs that were Top 10 NFL draft picks fromthe past 25 years and how they've done. A couple of them were supplemental draft picks which muddies the waters a bit, but at least this is full discluosure of how guys have done.Player, first year fantasy value, career fantasy valueBarry Sanders, 139, 1235Marshall Faulk, 125, 1164LaDainian Tomlinson, 85, 1013Eric Dickerson, 191, 887Marcus Allen, 203, 884Edgerrin James, 186, 682Jerome Bettis, 97, 434Fred Taylor, 139, 421Curt Warner, 111, 406Ricky Williams, 0, 380Gerald Riggs, 0, 303Jamal Lewis, 43, 296Garrison Hearst, 0, 246Bobby Humphrey, 63, 116Thomas Jones, 0, 92Keith Byars, 0, 82Mike Rozier, 0, 58Darrin Nelson, 0, 48Curtis Enis, 0, 26Sammie Smith, 0, 26Cadillac Williams, 19, 19Reggie Bush, 17, 17Brent Fullwood, 0, 13Bo Jackson, 6, 6Ronnie Brown, 1, 1Cedric Benson, 0, 0Lawrence Phillips, 0, 0Tim Biakabutuka, 0, 0Ki-Jana Carter, 0, 0Tommy Vardell, 0, 0Blair Thomas, 0, 0Tim Worley, 0, 0Alonzo Highsmith, 0, 0Michael Haddix, 0, 0Cris Carter, 0, 624Tim Brown, 5, 535Torry Holt, 0, 515Sterling Sharpe, 0, 496Herman Moore, 0, 394Joey Galloway, 48, 312Irving Fryar, 0, 278Keyshawn Johnson, 17, 193Rob Moore, 0, 165Terry Glenn, 38, 158David Boston, 0, 157Plaxico Burress, 0, 156Curtis Conway, 0, 149Al Toon, 0, 146Larry Fitzgerald, 0, 103Andre Johnson, 16, 70Roy Williams, 2, 59Michael Westbrook, 0, 57Koren Robinson, 0, 50Peter Warrick, 0, 34Ike Hilliard, 0, 18Travis Taylor, 0, 13Braylon Edwards, 0, 9JJ Stokes, 0, 2Troy Williamson, 0, 0Mike Williams, 0, 0Reggie Williams, 0, 0Charles Rogers, 0, 0David Terrell, 0, 0Desmond Howard, 0, 0Joey Jones, 0, 0Kenny Jackson, 0, 0

Woah, this is crazy. Essentially this makes this argument non-existent.

 

[Jedimaster21]

I love both of these guys. However, I firmly believe that RBs are the key to fantasy success, whether in dynasty or redraft. I am going to take Peterson and have zero regrets.

 

[Penguin]

2004

Top RB: Steven Jackson Chris Perry

Top WR: Larry Fitzgerald

Who had more value in 2005? Who has more value now?

Fixed

 

[Kit Fisto]

I love both of these guys. However, I firmly believe that RBs are the key to fantasy success, whether in dynasty or redraft. I am going to take Peterson and have zero regrets.

Yup.

 

[EBF]

To better flesh out this discussion, here are all the RBs and WRs that were Top 10 NFL draft picks fromthe past 25 years and how they've done. A couple of them were supplemental draft picks which muddies the waters a bit, but at least this is full discluosure of how guys have done.Player, first year fantasy value, career fantasy valueBarry Sanders, 139, 1235Marshall Faulk, 125, 1164LaDainian Tomlinson, 85, 1013Eric Dickerson, 191, 887Marcus Allen, 203, 884Edgerrin James, 186, 682Jerome Bettis, 97, 434Fred Taylor, 139, 421Curt Warner, 111, 406Ricky Williams, 0, 380Gerald Riggs, 0, 303Jamal Lewis, 43, 296Garrison Hearst, 0, 246Bobby Humphrey, 63, 116Thomas Jones, 0, 92Keith Byars, 0, 82Mike Rozier, 0, 58Darrin Nelson, 0, 48Curtis Enis, 0, 26Sammie Smith, 0, 26Cadillac Williams, 19, 19Reggie Bush, 17, 17Brent Fullwood, 0, 13Bo Jackson, 6, 6Ronnie Brown, 1, 1Cedric Benson, 0, 0Lawrence Phillips, 0, 0Tim Biakabutuka, 0, 0Ki-Jana Carter, 0, 0Tommy Vardell, 0, 0Blair Thomas, 0, 0Tim Worley, 0, 0Alonzo Highsmith, 0, 0Michael Haddix, 0, 0Cris Carter, 0, 624Tim Brown, 5, 535Torry Holt, 0, 515Sterling Sharpe, 0, 496Herman Moore, 0, 394Joey Galloway, 48, 312Irving Fryar, 0, 278Keyshawn Johnson, 17, 193Rob Moore, 0, 165Terry Glenn, 38, 158David Boston, 0, 157Plaxico Burress, 0, 156Curtis Conway, 0, 149Al Toon, 0, 146Larry Fitzgerald, 0, 103Andre Johnson, 16, 70Roy Williams, 2, 59Michael Westbrook, 0, 57Koren Robinson, 0, 50Peter Warrick, 0, 34Ike Hilliard, 0, 18Travis Taylor, 0, 13Braylon Edwards, 0, 9JJ Stokes, 0, 2Troy Williamson, 0, 0Mike Williams, 0, 0Reggie Williams, 0, 0Charles Rogers, 0, 0David Terrell, 0, 0Desmond Howard, 0, 0Joey Jones, 0, 0Kenny Jackson, 0, 0

Is this PPR?I don't think anyone disputes that Peterson is the better pick in non-PPR leagues.

 

[BigTex]

Doesn't the high WR bust rate for top 10 picks bother you guys. 1995-2004 WRs picked in the top 10.

In a word? No. Almost none of those guys carried the kind of grades that Calvin Johnson carries. I hear that most teams have him listed as the #1 player on their board. The only comparable talents from recent drafts are Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, and Charles Rogers. Two of those guys are stars. The other one failed more because of character issues than lack of talent (Rogers was 6'2" with 4.3 speed and plenty of football skills). Every indication is that Calvin Johnson is not a moronic dope fiend like Rogers. At a certain point, you have to trust your eyes. It only takes a few minutes of watching #21 to know he's going to be a player in the NFL. Like I've been saying, the worst case scenario is a Keyshawn Johnson type career. The best case scenario is production along the lines of what we saw from Moss and TO in their best years.

Larry Fitz is really the only valuable one out of those 3 though. Rogers is obviously worthless. AJ can be had for a decent #2 RB. If you hot on the runningback, ala LT or Steven Jackson, he's worth triple what even a great WR is worth. Runningbacks also tend to be worth more for longer even if they're not performing. Benson hasn't really done much of anything, yet he still has considerable value in dynasty leagues. Wrs have to hit almost right off the bat to keep their value or it plummets. Troy Williamson can be had right now for a bag of peanuts.

Steven Jackson is a best case scenario and he's not worth triple a great WR. In my PPR league, Andre Johnson had a higher weekly average than Chester Taylor, Shaun Alexander, Rudi Johnson, Ronnie Brown, Joseph Addai, and Edgerrin James. That was with David Carr throwing him passes. I don't think anyone is arguing that Peterson/Lynch aren't better picks in most formats. In a non-PPR league that requires you to start at least 2 RBs, the RBs hold much more value than Johnson. But in some formats, Calvin is a very viable choice as the 1.01 pick. Keep in mind that it's not all about the short-term. Consider the following questions:1996Top RB: Eddie GeorgeTop WR: Marvin Harrison, Terrell OwensWho had more value in 1997? Who has more value now? 1998 Top RB: Fred TaylorTop WR: Randy MossWho had more value in 1999? Who has more value now? 1999Top RB: Edgerrin JamesTop WR: Torry HoltWho had more value in 2000? Who has more value now?Great WRs can sometimes carry much greater long-term dynasty value than great RBs. Eddie George would've been great to own from 1996-2001, but Marvin Harrison and Terrell Owens have been far more valuable for the past five years. I think there's a very good chance that Peterson will carry more trade value than Johnson after one year. That doesn't mean he'll end up being the more valuable commodity in the long haul.

1997Top RB: Warrick DunnTop WR: Ike HilliardWho had more value in 1998? Who has more value now?2000Top RB: Jamal LewisTop WR: Peter WarrickWho had more value in 2001? Who has more value now?2001Top RB: LaDainian TomlinsonTop WR: David TerrellWho had more value in 2002? Who has more value now?2002Top RB: Clinton PortisTop WR: Donte' Stallworth/Javon WalkerWho had more value in 2003? Who has more value now?2003Top RB: Larry JohnsonTop WR: Andre JohnsonWho had more value in 2004? Who has more value now?2004Top RB: Steven JacksonTop WR: Larry FitzgeraldWho had more value in 2005? Who has more value now?2005Top RB: Ronnie BrownTop WR: Braylon EdwardsWho had more value in 2006? Who has more value now?2006Top RB: Reggie BushTop WR: Santonio HolmesWho has more value now?Conclusion from our history lesson: RB>>>>>>>>>>>>>WR

I'd say this situation is more like the Larry Fitzgerald Season, and SJax wasn't the undisputed #1 RB, many teams took Kevin Jones. And until this season Fitzgerald had held more value than both of them. I think the pick depends on whether your league is PPR and Start 3 WR. Mine is, I'll take CJ.

Fitz has had only one good season: 2005Even if SJax is not the #1 RB that's not the discussion. SJax >>>>>>>Fitz

 

[BigTex]

2004

Top RB: Steven Jackson Chris Perry

Top WR: Larry Fitzgerald

Who had more value in 2005? Who has more value now?

Fixed

Wrong, SJax was drafted @ #24 by St. Luis and Perry was drafted @ #26 by Cinci: http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/years/2004Now, try again!

 

[EBF]

Doesn't the high WR bust rate for top 10 picks bother you guys. 1995-2004 WRs picked in the top 10.

In a word? No. Almost none of those guys carried the kind of grades that Calvin Johnson carries. I hear that most teams have him listed as the #1 player on their board. The only comparable talents from recent drafts are Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, and Charles Rogers. Two of those guys are stars. The other one failed more because of character issues than lack of talent (Rogers was 6'2" with 4.3 speed and plenty of football skills). Every indication is that Calvin Johnson is not a moronic dope fiend like Rogers. At a certain point, you have to trust your eyes. It only takes a few minutes of watching #21 to know he's going to be a player in the NFL. Like I've been saying, the worst case scenario is a Keyshawn Johnson type career. The best case scenario is production along the lines of what we saw from Moss and TO in their best years.

Larry Fitz is really the only valuable one out of those 3 though. Rogers is obviously worthless. AJ can be had for a decent #2 RB. If you hot on the runningback, ala LT or Steven Jackson, he's worth triple what even a great WR is worth. Runningbacks also tend to be worth more for longer even if they're not performing. Benson hasn't really done much of anything, yet he still has considerable value in dynasty leagues. Wrs have to hit almost right off the bat to keep their value or it plummets. Troy Williamson can be had right now for a bag of peanuts.

Steven Jackson is a best case scenario and he's not worth triple a great WR. In my PPR league, Andre Johnson had a higher weekly average than Chester Taylor, Shaun Alexander, Rudi Johnson, Ronnie Brown, Joseph Addai, and Edgerrin James. That was with David Carr throwing him passes. I don't think anyone is arguing that Peterson/Lynch aren't better picks in most formats. In a non-PPR league that requires you to start at least 2 RBs, the RBs hold much more value than Johnson. But in some formats, Calvin is a very viable choice as the 1.01 pick. Keep in mind that it's not all about the short-term. Consider the following questions:1996Top RB: Eddie GeorgeTop WR: Marvin Harrison, Terrell OwensWho had more value in 1997? Who has more value now? 1998 Top RB: Fred TaylorTop WR: Randy MossWho had more value in 1999? Who has more value now? 1999Top RB: Edgerrin JamesTop WR: Torry HoltWho had more value in 2000? Who has more value now?Great WRs can sometimes carry much greater long-term dynasty value than great RBs. Eddie George would've been great to own from 1996-2001, but Marvin Harrison and Terrell Owens have been far more valuable for the past five years. I think there's a very good chance that Peterson will carry more trade value than Johnson after one year. That doesn't mean he'll end up being the more valuable commodity in the long haul.

1997Top RB: Warrick DunnTop WR: Ike HilliardWho had more value in 1998? Who has more value now?2000Top RB: Jamal LewisTop WR: Peter WarrickWho had more value in 2001? Who has more value now?2001Top RB: LaDainian TomlinsonTop WR: David TerrellWho had more value in 2002? Who has more value now?2002Top RB: Clinton PortisTop WR: Donte' Stallworth/Javon WalkerWho had more value in 2003? Who has more value now?2003Top RB: Larry JohnsonTop WR: Andre JohnsonWho had more value in 2004? Who has more value now?2004Top RB: Steven JacksonTop WR: Larry FitzgeraldWho had more value in 2005? Who has more value now?2005Top RB: Ronnie BrownTop WR: Braylon EdwardsWho had more value in 2006? Who has more value now?2006Top RB: Reggie BushTop WR: Santonio HolmesWho has more value now?Conclusion from our history lesson: RB>>>>>>>>>>>>>WR

I'd say this situation is more like the Larry Fitzgerald Season, and SJax wasn't the undisputed #1 RB, many teams took Kevin Jones. And until this season Fitzgerald had held more value than both of them. I think the pick depends on whether your league is PPR and Start 3 WR. Mine is, I'll take CJ.

Fitz has had only one good season: 2005Even if SJax is not the #1 RB that's not the discussion. SJax >>>>>>>Fitz

For now. But who do you think is more likely to be a major contributor in five years? I think it's Fitz.

 

[T with T]

First of all lets get one thing straight... Bush is by far the best RB under 22 years old... I love AD and CJ and I think they are gonna be awesome... BUT I LOVE R. BUSH esp. in a PPR he is MONEY and he is gonna continue to get better with or without D. McCalister.. Secondly... Peterson is not gonna be a bust like the one guy wrote earlier because he runs upright.. thats a load of shi$.. lol he is a monster... I definatly would consider CJ first overall if i had solid rbs and it was a ppr league and you could start 3-4 wrs........ if u start 2-3 rbs and u have 3 solid rbs then I would definately draft CJ.. If i had one solid rb and two guys with potential I would probably go with AP.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Doesn't the high WR bust rate for top 10 picks bother you guys. 1995-2004 WRs picked in the top 10.

In a word? No. Almost none of those guys carried the kind of grades that Calvin Johnson carries. I hear that most teams have him listed as the #1 player on their board. The only comparable talents from recent drafts are Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, and Charles Rogers. Two of those guys are stars. The other one failed more because of character issues than lack of talent (Rogers was 6'2" with 4.3 speed and plenty of football skills). Every indication is that Calvin Johnson is not a moronic dope fiend like Rogers. At a certain point, you have to trust your eyes. It only takes a few minutes of watching #21 to know he's going to be a player in the NFL. Like I've been saying, the worst case scenario is a Keyshawn Johnson type career. The best case scenario is production along the lines of what we saw from Moss and TO in their best years.

Larry Fitz is really the only valuable one out of those 3 though. Rogers is obviously worthless. AJ can be had for a decent #2 RB. If you hot on the runningback, ala LT or Steven Jackson, he's worth triple what even a great WR is worth. Runningbacks also tend to be worth more for longer even if they're not performing. Benson hasn't really done much of anything, yet he still has considerable value in dynasty leagues. Wrs have to hit almost right off the bat to keep their value or it plummets. Troy Williamson can be had right now for a bag of peanuts.

Steven Jackson is a best case scenario and he's not worth triple a great WR. In my PPR league, Andre Johnson had a higher weekly average than Chester Taylor, Shaun Alexander, Rudi Johnson, Ronnie Brown, Joseph Addai, and Edgerrin James. That was with David Carr throwing him passes. I don't think anyone is arguing that Peterson/Lynch aren't better picks in most formats. In a non-PPR league that requires you to start at least 2 RBs, the RBs hold much more value than Johnson. But in some formats, Calvin is a very viable choice as the 1.01 pick. Keep in mind that it's not all about the short-term. Consider the following questions:1996Top RB: Eddie GeorgeTop WR: Marvin Harrison, Terrell OwensWho had more value in 1997? Who has more value now? 1998 Top RB: Fred TaylorTop WR: Randy MossWho had more value in 1999? Who has more value now? 1999Top RB: Edgerrin JamesTop WR: Torry HoltWho had more value in 2000? Who has more value now?Great WRs can sometimes carry much greater long-term dynasty value than great RBs. Eddie George would've been great to own from 1996-2001, but Marvin Harrison and Terrell Owens have been far more valuable for the past five years. I think there's a very good chance that Peterson will carry more trade value than Johnson after one year. That doesn't mean he'll end up being the more valuable commodity in the long haul.

1997Top RB: Warrick DunnTop WR: Ike HilliardWho had more value in 1998? Who has more value now?2000Top RB: Jamal LewisTop WR: Peter WarrickWho had more value in 2001? Who has more value now?2001Top RB: LaDainian TomlinsonTop WR: David TerrellWho had more value in 2002? Who has more value now?2002Top RB: Clinton PortisTop WR: Donte' Stallworth/Javon WalkerWho had more value in 2003? Who has more value now?2003Top RB: Larry JohnsonTop WR: Andre JohnsonWho had more value in 2004? Who has more value now?2004Top RB: Steven JacksonTop WR: Larry FitzgeraldWho had more value in 2005? Who has more value now?2005Top RB: Ronnie BrownTop WR: Braylon EdwardsWho had more value in 2006? Who has more value now?2006Top RB: Reggie BushTop WR: Santonio HolmesWho has more value now?Conclusion from our history lesson: RB>>>>>>>>>>>>>WR

I'd say this situation is more like the Larry Fitzgerald Season, and SJax wasn't the undisputed #1 RB, many teams took Kevin Jones. And until this season Fitzgerald had held more value than both of them. I think the pick depends on whether your league is PPR and Start 3 WR. Mine is, I'll take CJ.

Fitz has had only one good season: 2005Even if SJax is not the #1 RB that's not the discussion. SJax >>>>>>>Fitz

For now. But who do you think is more likely to be a major contributor in five years? I think it's Fitz.

Five years? A lot can change in five years and a lot of fantasy points can be scored within those 5 years. Think you're looking too far out. Mark Clayton is more likely to be a major contributor than LT in five years. Doesn't mean I'd rather have Clayton.

 

[BigTex]

Doesn't the high WR bust rate for top 10 picks bother you guys. 1995-2004 WRs picked in the top 10.

In a word? No. Almost none of those guys carried the kind of grades that Calvin Johnson carries. I hear that most teams have him listed as the #1 player on their board. The only comparable talents from recent drafts are Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, and Charles Rogers. Two of those guys are stars. The other one failed more because of character issues than lack of talent (Rogers was 6'2" with 4.3 speed and plenty of football skills). Every indication is that Calvin Johnson is not a moronic dope fiend like Rogers. At a certain point, you have to trust your eyes. It only takes a few minutes of watching #21 to know he's going to be a player in the NFL. Like I've been saying, the worst case scenario is a Keyshawn Johnson type career. The best case scenario is production along the lines of what we saw from Moss and TO in their best years.

Larry Fitz is really the only valuable one out of those 3 though. Rogers is obviously worthless. AJ can be had for a decent #2 RB. If you hot on the runningback, ala LT or Steven Jackson, he's worth triple what even a great WR is worth. Runningbacks also tend to be worth more for longer even if they're not performing. Benson hasn't really done much of anything, yet he still has considerable value in dynasty leagues. Wrs have to hit almost right off the bat to keep their value or it plummets. Troy Williamson can be had right now for a bag of peanuts.

Steven Jackson is a best case scenario and he's not worth triple a great WR. In my PPR league, Andre Johnson had a higher weekly average than Chester Taylor, Shaun Alexander, Rudi Johnson, Ronnie Brown, Joseph Addai, and Edgerrin James. That was with David Carr throwing him passes. I don't think anyone is arguing that Peterson/Lynch aren't better picks in most formats. In a non-PPR league that requires you to start at least 2 RBs, the RBs hold much more value than Johnson. But in some formats, Calvin is a very viable choice as the 1.01 pick. Keep in mind that it's not all about the short-term. Consider the following questions:1996Top RB: Eddie GeorgeTop WR: Marvin Harrison, Terrell OwensWho had more value in 1997? Who has more value now? 1998 Top RB: Fred TaylorTop WR: Randy MossWho had more value in 1999? Who has more value now? 1999Top RB: Edgerrin JamesTop WR: Torry HoltWho had more value in 2000? Who has more value now?Great WRs can sometimes carry much greater long-term dynasty value than great RBs. Eddie George would've been great to own from 1996-2001, but Marvin Harrison and Terrell Owens have been far more valuable for the past five years. I think there's a very good chance that Peterson will carry more trade value than Johnson after one year. That doesn't mean he'll end up being the more valuable commodity in the long haul.

1997Top RB: Warrick DunnTop WR: Ike HilliardWho had more value in 1998? Who has more value now?2000Top RB: Jamal LewisTop WR: Peter WarrickWho had more value in 2001? Who has more value now?2001Top RB: LaDainian TomlinsonTop WR: David TerrellWho had more value in 2002? Who has more value now?2002Top RB: Clinton PortisTop WR: Donte' Stallworth/Javon WalkerWho had more value in 2003? Who has more value now?2003Top RB: Larry JohnsonTop WR: Andre JohnsonWho had more value in 2004? Who has more value now?2004Top RB: Steven JacksonTop WR: Larry FitzgeraldWho had more value in 2005? Who has more value now?2005Top RB: Ronnie BrownTop WR: Braylon EdwardsWho had more value in 2006? Who has more value now?2006Top RB: Reggie BushTop WR: Santonio HolmesWho has more value now?Conclusion from our history lesson: RB>>>>>>>>>>>>>WR

I'd say this situation is more like the Larry Fitzgerald Season, and SJax wasn't the undisputed #1 RB, many teams took Kevin Jones. And until this season Fitzgerald had held more value than both of them. I think the pick depends on whether your league is PPR and Start 3 WR. Mine is, I'll take CJ.

Fitz has had only one good season: 2005Even if SJax is not the #1 RB that's not the discussion. SJax >>>>>>>Fitz

For now. But who do you think is more likely to be a major contributor in five years? I think it's Fitz.

SJax is still young and this is only his second full season as a starter. At this point I'd rather have SJax, we really don't who will be better in five years. Neither one of these guy may not even be in the NFL for whatever reason. Right now SJax is >>>>>>>Fitz. While most will be planning five years from now SJax owners would have won multiple championships. (In some cases that is)But, to each his own.

 

[Kit Fisto]

Five years? A lot can change in five years and a lot of fantasy points can be scored within those 5 years. Think you're looking too far out. Mark Clayton is more likely to be a major contributor than LT in five years. Doesn't mean I'd rather have Clayton.

 

[Kit Fisto]

SJax is still young and this is only his second full season as a starter. At this point I'd rather have SJax, we really don't who will be better in five years. Neither one of these guy may not even be in the NFL for whatever reason. Right now SJax is >>>>>>>Fitz. While most will be planning five years from now SJax owners would have won multiple championships. (In some cases that is)But, to each his own.

Steven Jackson was the MVP in every league I played in last year.

 

[EBF]

Doesn't the high WR bust rate for top 10 picks bother you guys. 1995-2004 WRs picked in the top 10.

In a word? No. Almost none of those guys carried the kind of grades that Calvin Johnson carries. I hear that most teams have him listed as the #1 player on their board. The only comparable talents from recent drafts are Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, and Charles Rogers. Two of those guys are stars. The other one failed more because of character issues than lack of talent (Rogers was 6'2" with 4.3 speed and plenty of football skills). Every indication is that Calvin Johnson is not a moronic dope fiend like Rogers. At a certain point, you have to trust your eyes. It only takes a few minutes of watching #21 to know he's going to be a player in the NFL. Like I've been saying, the worst case scenario is a Keyshawn Johnson type career. The best case scenario is production along the lines of what we saw from Moss and TO in their best years.

Larry Fitz is really the only valuable one out of those 3 though. Rogers is obviously worthless. AJ can be had for a decent #2 RB. If you hot on the runningback, ala LT or Steven Jackson, he's worth triple what even a great WR is worth. Runningbacks also tend to be worth more for longer even if they're not performing. Benson hasn't really done much of anything, yet he still has considerable value in dynasty leagues. Wrs have to hit almost right off the bat to keep their value or it plummets. Troy Williamson can be had right now for a bag of peanuts.

Steven Jackson is a best case scenario and he's not worth triple a great WR. In my PPR league, Andre Johnson had a higher weekly average than Chester Taylor, Shaun Alexander, Rudi Johnson, Ronnie Brown, Joseph Addai, and Edgerrin James. That was with David Carr throwing him passes. I don't think anyone is arguing that Peterson/Lynch aren't better picks in most formats. In a non-PPR league that requires you to start at least 2 RBs, the RBs hold much more value than Johnson. But in some formats, Calvin is a very viable choice as the 1.01 pick. Keep in mind that it's not all about the short-term. Consider the following questions:1996Top RB: Eddie GeorgeTop WR: Marvin Harrison, Terrell OwensWho had more value in 1997? Who has more value now? 1998 Top RB: Fred TaylorTop WR: Randy MossWho had more value in 1999? Who has more value now? 1999Top RB: Edgerrin JamesTop WR: Torry HoltWho had more value in 2000? Who has more value now?Great WRs can sometimes carry much greater long-term dynasty value than great RBs. Eddie George would've been great to own from 1996-2001, but Marvin Harrison and Terrell Owens have been far more valuable for the past five years. I think there's a very good chance that Peterson will carry more trade value than Johnson after one year. That doesn't mean he'll end up being the more valuable commodity in the long haul.

1997Top RB: Warrick DunnTop WR: Ike HilliardWho had more value in 1998? Who has more value now?2000Top RB: Jamal LewisTop WR: Peter WarrickWho had more value in 2001? Who has more value now?2001Top RB: LaDainian TomlinsonTop WR: David TerrellWho had more value in 2002? Who has more value now?2002Top RB: Clinton PortisTop WR: Donte' Stallworth/Javon WalkerWho had more value in 2003? Who has more value now?2003Top RB: Larry JohnsonTop WR: Andre JohnsonWho had more value in 2004? Who has more value now?2004Top RB: Steven JacksonTop WR: Larry FitzgeraldWho had more value in 2005? Who has more value now?2005Top RB: Ronnie BrownTop WR: Braylon EdwardsWho had more value in 2006? Who has more value now?2006Top RB: Reggie BushTop WR: Santonio HolmesWho has more value now?Conclusion from our history lesson: RB>>>>>>>>>>>>>WR

I'd say this situation is more like the Larry Fitzgerald Season, and SJax wasn't the undisputed #1 RB, many teams took Kevin Jones. And until this season Fitzgerald had held more value than both of them. I think the pick depends on whether your league is PPR and Start 3 WR. Mine is, I'll take CJ.

Fitz has had only one good season: 2005Even if SJax is not the #1 RB that's not the discussion. SJax >>>>>>>Fitz

For now. But who do you think is more likely to be a major contributor in five years? I think it's Fitz.

SJax is still young and this is only his second full season as a starter. At this point I'd rather have SJax, we really don't who will be better in five years. Neither one of these guy may not even be in the NFL for whatever reason. Right now SJax is >>>>>>>Fitz. While most will be planning five years from now SJax owners would have won multiple championships. (In some cases that is)But, to each his own.

I agree with you, but I think you kind of missed the point of my initial argument.RBs almost always have more value in the first few seasons. Where WRs start to pull ahead is 5-6 years down the road when the RBs have broken down. I think Peterson stands a very good chance of being more valuable than Calvin Johnson for the next 2-3 years, but I think Johnson might eventually surpass him and keep producing while AD is retired or washed up.Does that mean you should take Calvin first? No. It's just another consideration to factor into your decision.

 

[BigTex]

SJax is still young and this is only his second full season as a starter. At this point I'd rather have SJax, we really don't who will be better in five years. Neither one of these guy may not even be in the NFL for whatever reason. Right now SJax is >>>>>>>Fitz. While most will be planning five years from now SJax owners would have won multiple championships. (In some cases that is)But, to each his own.

Steven Jackson was the MVP in every league I played in last year.

I had him in a redraft league and he took me to the promiseland.

 

[KoolKat]

Doesn't the high WR bust rate for top 10 picks bother you guys. 1995-2004 WRs picked in the top 10.

In a word? No. Almost none of those guys carried the kind of grades that Calvin Johnson carries. I hear that most teams have him listed as the #1 player on their board. The only comparable talents from recent drafts are Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, and Charles Rogers. Two of those guys are stars. The other one failed more because of character issues than lack of talent (Rogers was 6'2" with 4.3 speed and plenty of football skills). Every indication is that Calvin Johnson is not a moronic dope fiend like Rogers. At a certain point, you have to trust your eyes. It only takes a few minutes of watching #21 to know he's going to be a player in the NFL. Like I've been saying, the worst case scenario is a Keyshawn Johnson type career. The best case scenario is production along the lines of what we saw from Moss and TO in their best years.

Larry Fitz is really the only valuable one out of those 3 though. Rogers is obviously worthless. AJ can be had for a decent #2 RB. If you hot on the runningback, ala LT or Steven Jackson, he's worth triple what even a great WR is worth. Runningbacks also tend to be worth more for longer even if they're not performing. Benson hasn't really done much of anything, yet he still has considerable value in dynasty leagues. Wrs have to hit almost right off the bat to keep their value or it plummets. Troy Williamson can be had right now for a bag of peanuts.

Steven Jackson is a best case scenario and he's not worth triple a great WR. In my PPR league, Andre Johnson had a higher weekly average than Chester Taylor, Shaun Alexander, Rudi Johnson, Ronnie Brown, Joseph Addai, and Edgerrin James. That was with David Carr throwing him passes. I don't think anyone is arguing that Peterson/Lynch aren't better picks in most formats. In a non-PPR league that requires you to start at least 2 RBs, the RBs hold much more value than Johnson. But in some formats, Calvin is a very viable choice as the 1.01 pick. Keep in mind that it's not all about the short-term. Consider the following questions:1996Top RB: Eddie GeorgeTop WR: Marvin Harrison, Terrell OwensWho had more value in 1997? Who has more value now? 1998 Top RB: Fred TaylorTop WR: Randy MossWho had more value in 1999? Who has more value now? 1999Top RB: Edgerrin JamesTop WR: Torry HoltWho had more value in 2000? Who has more value now?Great WRs can sometimes carry much greater long-term dynasty value than great RBs. Eddie George would've been great to own from 1996-2001, but Marvin Harrison and Terrell Owens have been far more valuable for the past five years. I think there's a very good chance that Peterson will carry more trade value than Johnson after one year. That doesn't mean he'll end up being the more valuable commodity in the long haul.

1997Top RB: Warrick DunnTop WR: Ike HilliardWho had more value in 1998? Who has more value now?2000Top RB: Jamal LewisTop WR: Peter WarrickWho had more value in 2001? Who has more value now?2001Top RB: LaDainian TomlinsonTop WR: David TerrellWho had more value in 2002? Who has more value now?2002Top RB: Clinton PortisTop WR: Donte' Stallworth/Javon WalkerWho had more value in 2003? Who has more value now?2003Top RB: Larry JohnsonTop WR: Andre JohnsonWho had more value in 2004? Who has more value now?2004Top RB: Steven JacksonTop WR: Larry FitzgeraldWho had more value in 2005? Who has more value now?2005Top RB: Ronnie BrownTop WR: Braylon EdwardsWho had more value in 2006? Who has more value now?2006Top RB: Reggie BushTop WR: Santonio HolmesWho has more value now?Conclusion from our history lesson: RB>>>>>>>>>>>>>WR

I'd say this situation is more like the Larry Fitzgerald Season, and SJax wasn't the undisputed #1 RB, many teams took Kevin Jones. And until this season Fitzgerald had held more value than both of them. I think the pick depends on whether your league is PPR and Start 3 WR. Mine is, I'll take CJ.

Fitz has had only one good season: 2005Even if SJax is not the #1 RB that's not the discussion. SJax >>>>>>>Fitz

No, actually the discussion was regarding the number 1 RB and WR of this draft. In order to gain insight, you can look at previous drafts and compare the results. In that FF draft there was a division of whether Jones, SJax, or Perry was the #1 back, especially b/c SJax was on Stl and Faulk still had some legs left at the time. Fitzgerald was the clear #1 WR in that draft, and while 2 of those RBs have relatively failed, Fitz has not. Analyzing that, one might conclude that CJ is the way to go. Esp. in PPR 3 WR.

 

[BigTex]

Doesn't the high WR bust rate for top 10 picks bother you guys. 1995-2004 WRs picked in the top 10.

In a word? No. Almost none of those guys carried the kind of grades that Calvin Johnson carries. I hear that most teams have him listed as the #1 player on their board. The only comparable talents from recent drafts are Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, and Charles Rogers. Two of those guys are stars. The other one failed more because of character issues than lack of talent (Rogers was 6'2" with 4.3 speed and plenty of football skills). Every indication is that Calvin Johnson is not a moronic dope fiend like Rogers. At a certain point, you have to trust your eyes. It only takes a few minutes of watching #21 to know he's going to be a player in the NFL. Like I've been saying, the worst case scenario is a Keyshawn Johnson type career. The best case scenario is production along the lines of what we saw from Moss and TO in their best years.

Larry Fitz is really the only valuable one out of those 3 though. Rogers is obviously worthless. AJ can be had for a decent #2 RB. If you hot on the runningback, ala LT or Steven Jackson, he's worth triple what even a great WR is worth. Runningbacks also tend to be worth more for longer even if they're not performing. Benson hasn't really done much of anything, yet he still has considerable value in dynasty leagues. Wrs have to hit almost right off the bat to keep their value or it plummets. Troy Williamson can be had right now for a bag of peanuts.

Steven Jackson is a best case scenario and he's not worth triple a great WR. In my PPR league, Andre Johnson had a higher weekly average than Chester Taylor, Shaun Alexander, Rudi Johnson, Ronnie Brown, Joseph Addai, and Edgerrin James. That was with David Carr throwing him passes. I don't think anyone is arguing that Peterson/Lynch aren't better picks in most formats. In a non-PPR league that requires you to start at least 2 RBs, the RBs hold much more value than Johnson. But in some formats, Calvin is a very viable choice as the 1.01 pick. Keep in mind that it's not all about the short-term. Consider the following questions:1996Top RB: Eddie GeorgeTop WR: Marvin Harrison, Terrell OwensWho had more value in 1997? Who has more value now? 1998 Top RB: Fred TaylorTop WR: Randy MossWho had more value in 1999? Who has more value now? 1999Top RB: Edgerrin JamesTop WR: Torry HoltWho had more value in 2000? Who has more value now?Great WRs can sometimes carry much greater long-term dynasty value than great RBs. Eddie George would've been great to own from 1996-2001, but Marvin Harrison and Terrell Owens have been far more valuable for the past five years. I think there's a very good chance that Peterson will carry more trade value than Johnson after one year. That doesn't mean he'll end up being the more valuable commodity in the long haul.

1997Top RB: Warrick DunnTop WR: Ike HilliardWho had more value in 1998? Who has more value now?2000Top RB: Jamal LewisTop WR: Peter WarrickWho had more value in 2001? Who has more value now?2001Top RB: LaDainian TomlinsonTop WR: David TerrellWho had more value in 2002? Who has more value now?2002Top RB: Clinton PortisTop WR: Donte' Stallworth/Javon WalkerWho had more value in 2003? Who has more value now?2003Top RB: Larry JohnsonTop WR: Andre JohnsonWho had more value in 2004? Who has more value now?2004Top RB: Steven JacksonTop WR: Larry FitzgeraldWho had more value in 2005? Who has more value now?2005Top RB: Ronnie BrownTop WR: Braylon EdwardsWho had more value in 2006? Who has more value now?2006Top RB: Reggie BushTop WR: Santonio HolmesWho has more value now?Conclusion from our history lesson: RB>>>>>>>>>>>>>WR

I'd say this situation is more like the Larry Fitzgerald Season, and SJax wasn't the undisputed #1 RB, many teams took Kevin Jones. And until this season Fitzgerald had held more value than both of them. I think the pick depends on whether your league is PPR and Start 3 WR. Mine is, I'll take CJ.

Fitz has had only one good season: 2005Even if SJax is not the #1 RB that's not the discussion. SJax >>>>>>>Fitz

No, actually the discussion was regarding the number 1 RB and WR of this draft. In order to gain insight, you can look at previous drafts and compare the results. In that FF draft there was a division of whether Jones, SJax, or Perry was the #1 back, especially b/c SJax was on Stl and Faulk still had some legs left at the time. Fitzgerald was the clear #1 WR in that draft, and while 2 of those RBs have relatively failed, Fitz has not. Analyzing that, one might conclude that CJ is the way to go. Esp. in PPR 3 WR.

SJax was the #1 RB in the 2004 draft.

 

[KoolKat]

Doesn't the high WR bust rate for top 10 picks bother you guys. 1995-2004 WRs picked in the top 10.

In a word? No. Almost none of those guys carried the kind of grades that Calvin Johnson carries. I hear that most teams have him listed as the #1 player on their board. The only comparable talents from recent drafts are Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, and Charles Rogers. Two of those guys are stars. The other one failed more because of character issues than lack of talent (Rogers was 6'2" with 4.3 speed and plenty of football skills). Every indication is that Calvin Johnson is not a moronic dope fiend like Rogers. At a certain point, you have to trust your eyes. It only takes a few minutes of watching #21 to know he's going to be a player in the NFL. Like I've been saying, the worst case scenario is a Keyshawn Johnson type career. The best case scenario is production along the lines of what we saw from Moss and TO in their best years.

Larry Fitz is really the only valuable one out of those 3 though. Rogers is obviously worthless. AJ can be had for a decent #2 RB. If you hot on the runningback, ala LT or Steven Jackson, he's worth triple what even a great WR is worth. Runningbacks also tend to be worth more for longer even if they're not performing. Benson hasn't really done much of anything, yet he still has considerable value in dynasty leagues. Wrs have to hit almost right off the bat to keep their value or it plummets. Troy Williamson can be had right now for a bag of peanuts.

Steven Jackson is a best case scenario and he's not worth triple a great WR. In my PPR league, Andre Johnson had a higher weekly average than Chester Taylor, Shaun Alexander, Rudi Johnson, Ronnie Brown, Joseph Addai, and Edgerrin James. That was with David Carr throwing him passes. I don't think anyone is arguing that Peterson/Lynch aren't better picks in most formats. In a non-PPR league that requires you to start at least 2 RBs, the RBs hold much more value than Johnson. But in some formats, Calvin is a very viable choice as the 1.01 pick. Keep in mind that it's not all about the short-term. Consider the following questions:1996Top RB: Eddie GeorgeTop WR: Marvin Harrison, Terrell OwensWho had more value in 1997? Who has more value now? 1998 Top RB: Fred TaylorTop WR: Randy MossWho had more value in 1999? Who has more value now? 1999Top RB: Edgerrin JamesTop WR: Torry HoltWho had more value in 2000? Who has more value now?Great WRs can sometimes carry much greater long-term dynasty value than great RBs. Eddie George would've been great to own from 1996-2001, but Marvin Harrison and Terrell Owens have been far more valuable for the past five years. I think there's a very good chance that Peterson will carry more trade value than Johnson after one year. That doesn't mean he'll end up being the more valuable commodity in the long haul.

1997Top RB: Warrick DunnTop WR: Ike HilliardWho had more value in 1998? Who has more value now?2000Top RB: Jamal LewisTop WR: Peter WarrickWho had more value in 2001? Who has more value now?2001Top RB: LaDainian TomlinsonTop WR: David TerrellWho had more value in 2002? Who has more value now?2002Top RB: Clinton PortisTop WR: Donte' Stallworth/Javon WalkerWho had more value in 2003? Who has more value now?2003Top RB: Larry JohnsonTop WR: Andre JohnsonWho had more value in 2004? Who has more value now?2004Top RB: Steven JacksonTop WR: Larry FitzgeraldWho had more value in 2005? Who has more value now?2005Top RB: Ronnie BrownTop WR: Braylon EdwardsWho had more value in 2006? Who has more value now?2006Top RB: Reggie BushTop WR: Santonio HolmesWho has more value now?Conclusion from our history lesson: RB>>>>>>>>>>>>>WR

I'd say this situation is more like the Larry Fitzgerald Season, and SJax wasn't the undisputed #1 RB, many teams took Kevin Jones. And until this season Fitzgerald had held more value than both of them. I think the pick depends on whether your league is PPR and Start 3 WR. Mine is, I'll take CJ.

Fitz has had only one good season: 2005Even if SJax is not the #1 RB that's not the discussion. SJax >>>>>>>Fitz

No, actually the discussion was regarding the number 1 RB and WR of this draft. In order to gain insight, you can look at previous drafts and compare the results. In that FF draft there was a division of whether Jones, SJax, or Perry was the #1 back, especially b/c SJax was on Stl and Faulk still had some legs left at the time. Fitzgerald was the clear #1 WR in that draft, and while 2 of those RBs have relatively failed, Fitz has not. Analyzing that, one might conclude that CJ is the way to go. Esp. in PPR 3 WR.

SJax was the #1 RB.

The way I remember it. SJax was passed on by many teams in that draft, and was slated to be a backup to Faulk, who looked to still have some time left. Jones was slated to be the immediate starter, and many people had Jones as the #1 back. And some still even had Perry as their #1 Back, b/c they either weren't sold on Rudi Johnson or were high on Perry. It is easy to say SJax was the #1 back now that we know what happened, but you have to analyze what was the thought at the time of the draft.

 

[BigTex]

What I'm I missing here? http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/years/2004

 

[KoolKat]

What I'm I missing here? http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/years/2004

Well if you're are going with draft order, the year you have Clinton Portis at the #1 back, it should be William Green.

 

[BigTex]

What I'm I missing here? http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/years/2004

Well if you're are going with draft order, the year you have Clinton Portis at the #1 back, it should be William Green.

What was your original angle? It seems like there are different agruments here.My point is/was that great RB outproduce great WR from year to year. As far as who was slated were in the NFL or Fantasy Football Mocks to a degree it's irrelavant. Great RBs are better than great WRs and history has shown that this is the case.

ETA: I have a question, when was the last time the best WR outproduced the best RB in any given year?

 

[KoolKat]

What I'm I missing here? http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/years/2004

Well if you're are going with draft order, the year you have Clinton Portis at the #1 back, it should be William Green.

What was your original angle? It seems like there are different agruments here.My point is/was that great RB outproduce great WR from year to year. As far as who was slated were in the NFL or Fantasy Football Mocks to a degree it's irrelavant. Great RBs are better than great WRs and history has shown that this is the case.

ETA: I have a question, when was the last time the best WR outproduced the best RB in any given year?

The original question is: For a Dynasty League is CJ or AD better to draft? You posted an argument showing the #1 RBs of any said year and the #1 WR. I felt that the only WR on that list that really compared to CJ was Fitz. You had SJax listed as the #1 back that year. Since this thread deals with drafting, I just wanted to point out that SJax was not the unanimous #1 Back that year. Fitzgerald was the clear #1, and where 2 of those RBs have failed, Fitz has been successful.

 

[KoolKat]

And there is no guarantee that AD will be the #1 FRB in the future, so that is irrelavant. The comparison is to the production you expect out of CJ.