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Im trying to clarify the list EBF keeps posting. It says Stewart ran a faster 40 than Slaton. If thats the case, for all those that watched the NFL combine, who think Stewart is faster than Slaton, I am out, done caput and you are ALL right and I am wrong.Stewart faster than Slaton? You have to be kidding meI think JAA should clear this up.
What did you use to search? I looked far and wide. Nice find!Wonder where Amos went in fantasy drafts with those workout numbersYou would be wrong.Some individual workouts have moved players up in the past week. West Virginia tailback Amos Zereoue ran the 40 in 4.35 seconds and posted a 41-inch vertical, a 10-foot-4 broad jump and 25 reps on the bench press. One running backs coach felt the workout gave Zereoue a good hold on being the third-best running back in the draft.Anyone have 1999 NFL Combine results? Im about to bet some money that Amos Zereoue benched more than Stewart
We can certainly compare Mendenhall unfavorably to Pierre Thomas, considering he didn't earn the starting job to un-drafted free agent if we follow this logic, right? Willie Parker? Priest Holmes? What about those guys? All I know is I saw Stewart demonstrate excellent speed, lateral movement, good vision, strong running after contact, and doing it all playing hurt. Robert Edwards was a back who didn't get a chance to play until a UGA starter got hurt and Edwards was rookie of the year, right? So I think it doesn't matter if it's Jeremiah Johnson or Grizzly Adams playing in front of Stewart. The fact is, that when Stewart got extended looks he performed very well. I'm not going to presume the coaching staff's reasons for not playing him. I think it is also dangerous for anyone to presume what's going on in a player's head rather than observing what he did or didn't do on a field. It's speculation about what's going on in a player's head that can be misleading. Being quiet and being content are two different things.
Excellent point about getting stronger. I think he's more than strong enough. The question to me is his vision. I know Chaos thinks he has great vision, but I didn't see that on tape. I saw great speed through holes and alleys that required very little behind the LOS adjustments or cuts in the hole to exploit. If you want to see good vision from prospects, check out some Kevin Smith, Ray Rice, or Matt Forte vids. Not that vision is everything, but it's a big make or break factor. The reason I scored Ahmad Bradshaw an 88 on my checklist on a scale from 0-100 is his vision was excellent. Probably the best of the backs I evaluated last year. One of the games I scored was an effort versus Tennessee where he had to make adjustments just to get minimal yardage. His vision and quickness translated very well as a rookie. I saw the same from Addai three years ago and I believe I see the similar from Forte, although in more limited carries than I'd like to usually use for an evaluation. Still I'll stand behind it.This is simply not true. While you may never be able to achieve legs like MJD, it is ridiculous to think you couldnt strengthen/thicken your legs with a proper diet and weight lifting routine. Being Mcfadden is only 20, and about to have the best trainers and nutritionalist at his disposal, there is no reason to think he couldnt add 7-10 lbs in a 8-12 months without losing any speed. As scary as it is, he could actually improve on his speed with 5 extra lbs of muscle in his legs. He already came ito the combine weighing 6 lbs more than his listed weight in college, and ran faster than most thought he would.Yes, Genetics. Not everyone can have legs like Barry Sanders or MJD. Sure you can add some muscle to your body. Its obvious that McFadden works out in the gym. Why are his legs so skinny if he works out? I am far from an NFL player but I have worked out 4-5 times a week for 10 years. I have skinny ### stick legs no matter what kinda of protein shake I drink/work out routine I have. We all cant have MJD legs.....its genetic.McFadden's build will not let him put the needed strength into his legs. His legs are the way they are....genetics. He doesn't have lower body strength and he never will.
I found the same in my BDTT on him. I thought his short vision was just average. There were a couple of plays that game where he went right into a defender, and went down, rather than make a lateral cut. It wouldn't be great news evaluation-wise if he did that just to be "tough" or whatever, but it seemed like he didn't really see the crease and that's more troublesome.Yes, and for whatever reason they have not has nothing to do with them not being physically capable. My guess is that their teams want them more as 3rd down back/WR types, so a WR type build might be better suited for them. Assuming a team drafts Mcfadden as a workhorse, which i think he is, it would be in their/his best interest to bulk him up a bit.Doesn't Jerious Norwood have at his disposal the same quality trainers, diet, and weight lifting? What about Reggie Bush?This is simply not true. While you may never be able to achieve legs like MJD, it is ridiculous to think you couldnt strengthen/thicken your legs with a proper diet and weight lifting routine. Being Mcfadden is only 20, and about to have the best trainers and nutritionalist at his disposal, there is no reason to think he couldnt add 7-10 lbs in a 8-12 months without losing any speed. As scary as it is, he could actually improve on his speed with 5 extra lbs of muscle in his legs. He already came ito the combine weighing 6 lbs more than his listed weight in college, and ran faster than most thought he would.Yes, Genetics. Not everyone can have legs like Barry Sanders or MJD. Sure you can add some muscle to your body. Its obvious that McFadden works out in the gym. Why are his legs so skinny if he works out? I am far from an NFL player but I have worked out 4-5 times a week for 10 years. I have skinny ### stick legs no matter what kinda of protein shake I drink/work out routine I have. We all cant have MJD legs.....its genetic.McFadden's build will not let him put the needed strength into his legs. His legs are the way they are....genetics. He doesn't have lower body strength and he never will.Here is a picture of McFadden http://www.flickr.com/photos/tipsterhog/119072218/ <----- Notice the leg build vs Stewart.
, but I gotta :flag: here. Genetics? Are you serious? We can agree to disagree
I cannot comment further than I refuse to believe Stewart ran a faster 40 than Slaton. I DVRd the combine Sun and watched for quite a few hours
. No one will convince me Stewart is faster than Slaton. Im fine in being labled a on this one.I still stand by my comments on Stewart not being in the top 10 (still is tied with Rice), and running one of the slowest RB times, though faster than Mike Hart What you saw on tv were unofficial times. Near the end of the broadcast, they updated it with official times, which are now what is posted on nfl.com. Hence McFadden going from 4.27 to 4.33, Chris Johnson dropping over 1/10th of a second, and Stewart's official time being faster than Slaton.Im trying to clarify the list EBF keeps posting. It says Stewart ran a faster 40 than Slaton. If thats the case, for all those that watched the NFL combine, who think Stewart is faster than Slaton, I am out, done caput and you are ALL right and I am wrong.Stewart faster than Slaton? You have to be kidding me
How many runs of 30+ did each have?Stewarts top 3 runs this year were 88, 71, 55 yardsDMAcs were 80, 73, 56 yards
Yes, and for whatever reason they have not has nothing to do with them not being physically capable. My guess is that their teams want them more as 3rd down back/WR types, so a WR type build might be better suited for them. Assuming a team drafts Mcfadden as a workhorse, which i think he is, it would be in their/his best interest to bulk him up a bit.Doesn't Jerious Norwood have at his disposal the same quality trainers, diet, and weight lifting? What about Reggie Bush?This is simply not true. While you may never be able to achieve legs like MJD, it is ridiculous to think you couldnt strengthen/thicken your legs with a proper diet and weight lifting routine. Being Mcfadden is only 20, and about to have the best trainers and nutritionalist at his disposal, there is no reason to think he couldnt add 7-10 lbs in a 8-12 months without losing any speed. As scary as it is, he could actually improve on his speed with 5 extra lbs of muscle in his legs. He already came ito the combine weighing 6 lbs more than his listed weight in college, and ran faster than most thought he would.Yes, Genetics. Not everyone can have legs like Barry Sanders or MJD. Sure you can add some muscle to your body. Its obvious that McFadden works out in the gym. Why are his legs so skinny if he works out? I am far from an NFL player but I have worked out 4-5 times a week for 10 years. I have skinny ### stick legs no matter what kinda of protein shake I drink/work out routine I have. We all cant have MJD legs.....its genetic.McFadden's build will not let him put the needed strength into his legs. His legs are the way they are....genetics. He doesn't have lower body strength and he never will.
You tell me? Im guessing close to the same if not favoring Stewart.How many runs of 30+ did each have?
Which is what Stewart confirmed in his NFL Network interviews. Call me
but I felt a bit Ricky WIlliams vibe.Im tired of piling on Stewart. Stewart had an excellent combine, looks the part, had good speed, and runs well. I dont think he is a cant miss prospect. Depending where he (and others) go in the NFL draft I could see myself drafting him anywhere from 1.02 to 1.06. Stewart had a great college career, but I believe the evidence shows DMac is head and shoulders the better prospect.You want a link to "my guess"?Yes, and for whatever reason they have not has nothing to do with them not being physically capable. My guess is that their teams want them more as 3rd down back/WR types, so a WR type build might be better suited for them. Assuming a team drafts Mcfadden as a workhorse, which i think he is, it would be in their/his best interest to bulk him up a bit.Doesn't Jerious Norwood have at his disposal the same quality trainers, diet, and weight lifting? What about Reggie Bush?This is simply not true. While you may never be able to achieve legs like MJD, it is ridiculous to think you couldnt strengthen/thicken your legs with a proper diet and weight lifting routine. Being Mcfadden is only 20, and about to have the best trainers and nutritionalist at his disposal, there is no reason to think he couldnt add 7-10 lbs in a 8-12 months without losing any speed. As scary as it is, he could actually improve on his speed with 5 extra lbs of muscle in his legs. He already came ito the combine weighing 6 lbs more than his listed weight in college, and ran faster than most thought he would.Yes, Genetics. Not everyone can have legs like Barry Sanders or MJD. Sure you can add some muscle to your body. Its obvious that McFadden works out in the gym. Why are his legs so skinny if he works out? I am far from an NFL player but I have worked out 4-5 times a week for 10 years. I have skinny ### stick legs no matter what kinda of protein shake I drink/work out routine I have. We all cant have MJD legs.....its genetic.McFadden's build will not let him put the needed strength into his legs. His legs are the way they are....genetics. He doesn't have lower body strength and he never will.Here is a picture of McFadden http://www.flickr.com/photos/tipsterhog/119072218/ <----- Notice the leg build vs Stewart.
Im not talking about the times, Im talking about the runs. I watched all the top prospects runs 3+ times (except DMacs since they replayed it enoughWhat you saw on tv were unofficial times. Near the end of the broadcast, they updated it with official times, which are now what is posted on nfl.com. Hence McFadden going from 4.27 to 4.33, Chris Johnson dropping over 1/10th of a second, and Stewart's official time being faster than Slaton.Im trying to clarify the list EBF keeps posting. It says Stewart ran a faster 40 than Slaton. If thats the case, for all those that watched the NFL combine, who think Stewart is faster than Slaton, I am out, done caput and you are ALL right and I am wrong.Stewart faster than Slaton? You have to be kidding me
). I refuse to believe Slaton ran slower than Stewart. Anyone who watched the players run can tell me otherwise. For those who are quoting NFL.com numbers they can kiss my Fiesta Bowl Winner tuckus.
If DMac had more than twice as many as Stewart (career wise), would you change your tune?You tell me? Im guessing close to the same if not favoring Stewart.How many runs of 30+ did each have?
Those were unofficial hence McFadden's getting redone. That said, I refuse to believe that anyone who watched the combine thought Stewart was faster than Slaton.
I watched all the runs as well, multiple times, but to be honest, I can't really tell with a panning camera and seeing them run one at a time whether one guy is 1/10th of a second faster than someone else. I guess my accuracy is a little subpar. This is why I'm forced to go with the times.Im not talking about the times, Im talking about the runs. I watched all the top prospects runs 3+ times (except DMacs since they replayed it enoughWhat you saw on tv were unofficial times. Near the end of the broadcast, they updated it with official times, which are now what is posted on nfl.com. Hence McFadden going from 4.27 to 4.33, Chris Johnson dropping over 1/10th of a second, and Stewart's official time being faster than Slaton.Im trying to clarify the list EBF keeps posting. It says Stewart ran a faster 40 than Slaton. If thats the case, for all those that watched the NFL combine, who think Stewart is faster than Slaton, I am out, done caput and you are ALL right and I am wrong.Stewart faster than Slaton? You have to be kidding me
Im sure its my arrogance, but I can watch the players and ser who is faster. In my best armchair quarterback voice I can say with a straight face that I would guess in my head what RBs times were and I was amazing (at least to meI watched all the runs as well, multiple times, but to be honest, I can't really tell with a panning camera and seeing them run one at a time whether one guy is 1/10th of a second faster than someone else. I guess my accuracy is a little subpar. This is why I'm forced to go with the times.Im not talking about the times, Im talking about the runs. I watched all the top prospects runs 3+ times (except DMacs since they replayed it enoughWhat you saw on tv were unofficial times. Near the end of the broadcast, they updated it with official times, which are now what is posted on nfl.com. Hence McFadden going from 4.27 to 4.33, Chris Johnson dropping over 1/10th of a second, and Stewart's official time being faster than Slaton.Im trying to clarify the list EBF keeps posting. It says Stewart ran a faster 40 than Slaton. If thats the case, for all those that watched the NFL combine, who think Stewart is faster than Slaton, I am out, done caput and you are ALL right and I am wrong.Stewart faster than Slaton? You have to be kidding me). I refuse to believe Slaton ran slower than Stewart. Anyone who watched the players run can tell me otherwise. For those who are quoting NFL.com numbers they can kiss my Fiesta Bowl Winner tuckus.
) accurrate.I do. I think it's deceptive though because of his frame and short stride. He also returned kicks, so I think that says something for both his straightline speed and acceleration.Obviously, I'm a really big Stewart fan. I don't think he is a burner like Peterson (or McFadden), but his speed is more than adequate and compliments what I feel sets him apart from the other runners in this draft, his cutback ability and his ability to take contact, get extra yards and push the pile.
If Stewart had the same amount as DMac would you change yours (last year). I like how you added in "Career Wise". You started looking at last years data and got nervous.If DMac had more than twice as many as Stewart (career wise), would you change your tune?You tell me? Im guessing close to the same if not favoring Stewart.How many runs of 30+ did each have?
You are a very confused person. When did we go from Career to Last year? Career would not be a fair comparision seeing that DMac has had more rushes. Do you understand that?
I'm not sure what JAA was referencing, but when I was commenting on RBs that are viewed as starting material in the NFL. Of course, you do realize that not every RB in the draft is viewed as starting material. And are you really interested for fantasy purposes in an RB that is NOT viewed as starting material? I'm not.
There's really nothing more that can be said if you refuse to believe the official times. We can wait for a comprehensive list of official results that shows times for every RB who participated, but I suspect it will show the same thing. At any rate, it seems clear that your statement that Stewart ran one of the worst RB times is completely false.I don't have a problem with people liking one player over another. You like DMac over Stewart? Fine. I don't care. But why can't you just leave it at that? It seems pretty clear that you reached a decision that you don't like Stewart and you're trying to bend the facts to fit your biased opinion. We all do that to a certain extent, but you're wasting everyone's time when you post things that are completely untrue and misleading.
Wow. Even his youtube highlights are loaded with him doing an amazing job in this situation, waiting for the crease and exploding through it. It is the clearest vision I have of him in any game and on several runs. I cannot remember a back doing exactly what you say he doesn't do better than he does it.
I have no idea. My guess is that the unofficial times are stopwatch times. The official times are the computer times.
If he ran a faster time then he ran a faster time. That doesn't mean he plays faster. Bernard Berrian was a 4.5 guy at the combine and he is one of the most dangerous deep threats in the league. I definitely subscribe to the idea that there's a difference between playing speed and track speed. I would probably say Slaton plays faster. But what does that have to do with any of my previous posts? This thread isn't about Steve Slaton and none of my responses were concerned with the question of who's faster between Slaton and Stewart. The reason I responded to your post is because you said Stewart ran one of the worst RB 40 times, which simply isn't true.
So are you doubting the accuracy of the official times? Do you really think they tweak them in an attempt to make them less accurate?Common sense says the official times are the most reliable.
So you are saying he is as good a prospect as Mcfadden?
Better
I don't know, I checked the youtube highlights and what I saw there were very straight-forward holes where he didn't have to do anything but go straight. He didn't have to wait for the blocker to engage. He didn't have to take smaller steps or make a lateral move from one gap to the other behind the LOS to hit the open crease and he didn't have to make a cut or move in the hole to exploit another lane. Those plays aren't there. You know why? Because when he had to do those things he either: a) Ran straight into a defender or lineman and fell down. b) Got wrapped up and didn't get yardage after contactc) Tried to bounce it outside and was dragged down behind the LOS. I did not see one run that I"m talking about on YouTube highlights for McFadden. I don't think we're on the same page in terms of what I'm describing. Look at those runs on You tube and the initial hole at the LOS is at least a half a yard to a yard wide on either side of him with second level blocking. What makes his runs great is that he has the speed to hit these second level creases past the LOS so fast that he turns a normal 10-12 yard run into a 40-50 yard score. All the credit in the world goes to McFadden for having that kind of speed. He's blessed in this way. The problem is if he doesn't get (or see) the initial hole, he doesn't get as many of the 5-12 yard runs you'd see from a back with better vision to spot these holes, make a cut and explode through the crease. What I saw on film (and YouTube) were big holes--sometimes 3-4 yards in width with second level blocking. This happens maybe 3-4 times game in a competitive pro contest and a good RB exploits it 1-2 times.Wow. Even his youtube highlights are loaded with him doing an amazing job in this situation, waiting for the crease and exploding through it. It is the clearest vision I have of him in any game and on several runs. I cannot remember a back doing exactly what you say he doesn't do better than he does it.
Yes... that doesn't mean I would draft him over McFadden.Example; if I'm the Dallas Cowboys and both are on the board, I take McFadden as the lightning to Barber's thunder. If I'm the Texans or Seahawks and looking for a feature-back will get me 300 carries a season, I take Stewart.
Let me get this straight: Your eyes are a better measurement than the official electronic timer?Im not talking about the times, Im talking about the runs. I watched all the top prospects runs 3+ times (except DMacs since they replayed it enoughWhat you saw on tv were unofficial times. Near the end of the broadcast, they updated it with official times, which are now what is posted on nfl.com. Hence McFadden going from 4.27 to 4.33, Chris Johnson dropping over 1/10th of a second, and Stewart's official time being faster than Slaton.Im trying to clarify the list EBF keeps posting. It says Stewart ran a faster 40 than Slaton. If thats the case, for all those that watched the NFL combine, who think Stewart is faster than Slaton, I am out, done caput and you are ALL right and I am wrong.Stewart faster than Slaton? You have to be kidding me
I would like to know more about this: somewhere in this thread I read that he did well this year despite suffering from turf toe. This concerns me because my impression is that turf toe is something that lingers and that guys who have had turf toe (Chris Brown comes to mind) tend to have it recur. Am I wrong?
See, this is why we need a multi person Break Down the Tape where we all look at the same tape and discuss it.I don't know, I checked the youtube highlights and what I saw there were very straight-forward holes where he didn't have to do anything but go straight. He didn't have to wait for the blocker to engage. He didn't have to take smaller steps or make a lateral move from one gap to the other behind the LOS to hit the open crease and he didn't have to make a cut or move in the hole to exploit another lane. Those plays aren't there. You know why? Because when he had to do those things he either: a) Ran straight into a defender or lineman and fell down. b) Got wrapped up and didn't get yardage after contactc) Tried to bounce it outside and was dragged down behind the LOS. I did not see one run that I"m talking about on YouTube highlights for McFadden. I don't think we're on the same page in terms of what I'm describing. Look at those runs on You tube and the initial hole at the LOS is at least a half a yard to a yard wide on either side of him with second level blocking. What makes his runs great is that he has the speed to hit these second level creases past the LOS so fast that he turns a normal 10-12 yard run into a 40-50 yard score. All the credit in the world goes to McFadden for having that kind of speed. He's blessed in this way. The problem is if he doesn't get (or see) the initial hole, he doesn't get as many of the 5-12 yard runs you'd see from a back with better vision to spot these holes, make a cut and explode through the crease. What I saw on film (and YouTube) were big holes--sometimes 3-4 yards in width with second level blocking. This happens maybe 3-4 times game in a competitive pro contest and a good RB exploits it 1-2 times.Wow. Even his youtube highlights are loaded with him doing an amazing job in this situation, waiting for the crease and exploding through it. It is the clearest vision I have of him in any game and on several runs. I cannot remember a back doing exactly what you say he doesn't do better than he does it.
2002 (HS) - Broken Ankle2006 - Sprained Ankle; didn't miss a game, but did sit out large portions of games.
I'm up for that one. I think that's a great idea for people to observe and a learning experience for us watching. I think McFadden would be an excellent choice. Maybe we can do this in April? I have to finish the RSP, but April before the draft could be a very good time (first week or two of the month). I'll check the games I have of him and we'll find the same or we can ship the other a DVD of whatever game we use.See, this is why we need a multi person Break Down the Tape where we all look at the same tape and discuss it.I don't know, I checked the youtube highlights and what I saw there were very straight-forward holes where he didn't have to do anything but go straight. He didn't have to wait for the blocker to engage. He didn't have to take smaller steps or make a lateral move from one gap to the other behind the LOS to hit the open crease and he didn't have to make a cut or move in the hole to exploit another lane. Those plays aren't there. You know why? Because when he had to do those things he either: a) Ran straight into a defender or lineman and fell down. b) Got wrapped up and didn't get yardage after contactc) Tried to bounce it outside and was dragged down behind the LOS. I did not see one run that I"m talking about on YouTube highlights for McFadden. I don't think we're on the same page in terms of what I'm describing. Look at those runs on You tube and the initial hole at the LOS is at least a half a yard to a yard wide on either side of him with second level blocking. What makes his runs great is that he has the speed to hit these second level creases past the LOS so fast that he turns a normal 10-12 yard run into a 40-50 yard score. All the credit in the world goes to McFadden for having that kind of speed. He's blessed in this way. The problem is if he doesn't get (or see) the initial hole, he doesn't get as many of the 5-12 yard runs you'd see from a back with better vision to spot these holes, make a cut and explode through the crease. What I saw on film (and YouTube) were big holes--sometimes 3-4 yards in width with second level blocking. This happens maybe 3-4 times game in a competitive pro contest and a good RB exploits it 1-2 times.Wow. Even his youtube highlights are loaded with him doing an amazing job in this situation, waiting for the crease and exploding through it. It is the clearest vision I have of him in any game and on several runs. I cannot remember a back doing exactly what you say he doesn't do better than he does it.
I appreciate them also. Better we all disagree than agree right? Be pretty boring around here if that was the case
Where do you get this from? Name players in the NFL now or past who had a physique like him who have performed at a high level. Please, share this list you are comparing him to.
