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Josh Gordon - August 1, 2016 (1 Viewer)

Soulfly3 said:
Why do you keep saying #1 when I said I have him ranked at #5in redraft? 
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Why do you keep saying "want him to fail, or underwhelm" when I've said he's proven he can put up stud #s in the NFL, & I have him as a low-end WR1 who could be THE #1WR?

 
Soulfly3 said:
Why do you assume I am talking only to you? 

Soulfly is a communitarian. 
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I don't assume you are only talking to me; however, since I made the comment about you saying #1, IMMEDIATELY before you posting "why do you keep saying #1," it's clear that the comment was directed, at least in part, towards me.

 
Soulfly3 said:
Of course it was directed in part to you.

Soulfly will never forget the old JG thread. No, he won't. 
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Then why don't you answer the question, rather than trying to change the subject?

Why do you keep saying "want him to fail, or underwhelm" when I've said he's proven he can put up stud #s in the NFL, & I have him as a low-end WR1 who could be THE #1WR?

 
Soulfly3 said:
You said he's proven he can put up stud #s? Wow. Imagine acknowledging his historical season? 
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You're still avoiding the question.  Perhaps b/c you know that you're constructing a strawman to argue against?

Why do you keep saying "want him to fail, or underwhelm" when I've said he's proven he can put up stud #s in the NFL, & I have him as a low-end WR1 who could be THE #1WR?

 
Soulfly3 said:
Because some of this and mostly his old thread was full of that.

are you going to pretend it didnt?
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I'm not pretending anything.  Please find a post from this or any other thread where I have said or suggested that I want Gordon to fail/underwhelm.

You're making this strawman up, for some reason.  People who don't say Gordon's MMA video is "Wow" want him to fail.  People who don't think his high-five tweet is proof that he's been reinstated want him to fail.  People who don't think his team-mate saying he "looks good" is proof that he'll be a stud again in 2016 want him to fail.

You are the one pretending.  You're pretending that people who are being objective about Gordon (which just makes sense) have some kind of hatred for Gordon.

 
Bayhawks said:
Absolutely agree with your 2nd comment.  Up to this point, "no news is good news."  I believe he will be re-instated, and once OTAs, TC, pre-season starts, perhaps we get some substantive information.

But, I'll re-iterate; his friends saying he looks good, his snapchat showing pictures of him in good shape (which ABSOLUTELY does not equal football shape), him doing MMA workouts, his tweets being positive mean absolutely nothing.
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Why does it have to be to either extreme?

While it doesn't mean that Gordon comes back and tears up the league - staying focused, being dedicated to his craft, staying off drugs (yes, we don't know that but these activities help), and keeping himself in top physical condition certainly means something.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Why does it have to be to either extreme?

While it doesn't mean that Gordon comes back and tears up the league - staying focused, being dedicated to his craft, staying off drugs (yes, we don't know that but these activities help), and keeping himself in top physical condition certainly means something.
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Agreed; I'll edit it.

 
This may be the dumbest argument on the Internet.

Soulfly, please update the thread title when there is any actual news. 

 
Soulfly3 said:
Yes, we do know that he's been clean from drugs.

He gets piss tested weekly. 2+yrs clean
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Have they officially said he's passed every test?

I wasn't trying to disparage - I just didn't think we knew for sure of any positive or negative results at this stage.

 
Bayhawks said:
Please feel free to quote any of my posts where I called him a stoner slob, or anything to that effect.  I'll be happy to own it. 

I never did it, though, so good luck searching.

soul, You're so over-the-top with Gordon, you're trying to interpret an emoji on his twitter of a high-five as definitive proof that he's been reinstated by the NFL.  You are unable to be objective, & you seem to get argumentative anytime someone doesn't automatically agree with you that his MMA training is irrefutable proof that he's going to put up 2000 yards and 20 TDs.
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link?

 
grateful zed said:
what separates them?
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The fact that Blackmon never even applied for reinstatement because he's in such a hole, for one thing.

The fact that Blackmon got fat and out of shape entirely before that point, for another.

The fact that Blackmon is a felon, for yet another.

The fact that Blackmon is a legitimate alcoholic who shows no signs of wanting to turn his life around, while Gordon slipped up drinking a beer with his teammates on the team plane, and has pissed clean for multiple years as far as we know, is another thing.

And that's totally ignoring that Gordon's NFL production dwarfed anything Blackmon ever did.

 
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ConnSKINS26 said:
The fact that Blackmon never even applied for reinstatement because he's in such a hole, for one thing.

The fact that Blackmon got fat and out of shape entirely before that point, for another.

The fact that Blackmon is a felon, for yet another.

The fact that Blackmon is a legitimate alcoholic who shows no signs of wanting to turn his life around, while Gordon slipped up drinking a beer with his teammates on the team plane, and has pissed clean for multiple years as far as we know, is another thing.

And that's totally ignoring that Gordon's NFL production dwarfed anything Blackmon ever did.
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While your post is pretty much spot-on, I believe Blackmon DID apply for reinstatement, but was denied.

http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2015/5/10/8580465/justin-blackmon-denied-nfl-reinstatement

 
Let's talk about something useful in here. Assuming the following:

1. He's reinstated.

2. He stays a Brown this year.

3. Reports are positive this offseason (how he looks in OTA's/training camp)

How much does his value rebound? Will be 25, with one dominant season under his belt and one huge punishment already doled out that owners had to suffer through.

Where does he get ranked and drafted in dynasty going forward assuming the three things above are true?

 
ConnSKINS26 said:
Let's talk about something useful in here. Assuming the following:

1. He's reinstated.

2. He stays a Brown this year.

3. Reports are positive this offseason (how he looks in OTA's/training camp)

How much does his value rebound? Will be 25, with one dominant season under his belt and one huge punishment already doled out that owners had to suffer through.

Where does he get ranked and drafted in dynasty going forward assuming the three things above are true?
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I think his value is already rising quickly - even only a solid season (1,200/8-9TDs) should keep that value moving up.

 
ConnSKINS26 said:
Let's talk about something useful in here. Assuming the following:

1. He's reinstated.

2. He stays a Brown this year.

3. Reports are positive this offseason (how he looks in OTA's/training camp)

How much does his value rebound? Will be 25, with one dominant season under his belt and one huge punishment already doled out that owners had to suffer through.

Where does he get ranked and drafted in dynasty going forward assuming the three things above are true?
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I think 1 & 2 will happen (would be shocked if Cleveland trades him; I don't see them getting enough value in exchange), so 3 is the key.

If he looks good during OTA's, TC, and pre-season, I still couldn't see him passing these WRs: Brown, Beckham, Jones, Green, & Hopkins. Each of them has demonstrated NFL excellence over at least 2 NFL seasons.  Each of them, save Hopkins, has (at least) a decent QB, and Hopkins was a stud the last 2 seasons with crap QBs.  Each of them, save Beckham, seems to be free of any off-field issues/concerns that have plagued Gordon (& even if they never come back up, at least initially they need to be accounted for).

I'd have him in that next tier, though, with Dez, Allen Robinson, D. Thomas, & Mike Evans.  I'd probably have him ahead of Dez in that tier, pretty much even with Robinson & Thomas, but behind Evans. 

So, for me, if all reports are positive once we start getting real news, he'd be in the 3rd tier of WRs (Brown & Beckham would be tier 1, with Jones, Green, Hopkins in tier 2), and possibly ranked as high as #7.

 
When he returned from suspension in 2014 it appeared like he was reading defenses differently than Hoyer (he'd break the wrong way based on where the safety was located).  Is this a serious issue that he covered through athleticism or was that just because he missed part of the season?

 
steelers1080 said:
When he returned from suspension in 2014 it appeared like he was reading defenses differently than Hoyer (he'd break the wrong way based on where the safety was located).  Is this a serious issue that he covered through athleticism or was that just because he missed part of the season?
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I assume not having the playbook and being banned from the facilities until week 10 may have had something to do w it.

 
Soulfly3 said:
I assume not having the playbook and being banned from the facilities until week 10 may have had something to do w it.
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"Gordon admitted the playbook had expanded since the preseason -- a natural occurrence in a season -- and he was not up to speed on all of the plays, despite the fact he had a playbook while suspended." 

-From an article about his situation in 2014.

Being banned from the facilities could have done it, but he had the playbook and wasn't up to speed.  Also, the reads he was supposed to be making are things that are supposed to be general knowledge for WRs, not something that he would have been learning those first 10 weeks.  (http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/11039/josh-gordons-2014-season-was-very-mysterious-very-disappointing)

I like Gordon, I'm just saying we should temper our expectations until we see him perform like the juggernaut we know he can be.  No clue what his redraft value should be, but I'm happy I own him in Dynasty.  Just saying that he wasn't great the last time we saw him, and part of that was on him.

 
steelers1080 said:
"Gordon admitted the playbook had expanded since the preseason -- a natural occurrence in a season -- and he was not up to speed on all of the plays, despite the fact he had a playbook while suspended." 

-From an article about his situation in 2014.

Being banned from the facilities could have done it, but he had the playbook and wasn't up to speed.  Also, the reads he was supposed to be making are things that are supposed to be general knowledge for WRs, not something that he would have been learning those first 10 weeks.  (http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/11039/josh-gordons-2014-season-was-very-mysterious-very-disappointing)

I like Gordon, I'm just saying we should temper our expectations until we see him perform like the juggernaut we know he can be.  No clue what his redraft value should be, but I'm happy I own him in Dynasty.  Just saying that he wasn't great the last time we saw him, and part of that was on him.
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I don't know how many players could go from zero participation in the offseason program to top flight production in week 11 (he did go 8 for 120 btw) through 17 regardless of whether or not they had the playbook.

Three weeks of in season practice does not seem like a reasonable amount of time to expect a player of any caliber to perform at their peak.  Particularly when the coaches didn't have nearly the time to give JG the extra attention he would need in favor of the guys who had been there the entire time.

How is this even a question?

 
steelers1080 said:
"Gordon admitted the playbook had expanded since the preseason -- a natural occurrence in a season -- and he was not up to speed on all of the plays, despite the fact he had a playbook while suspended." 

-From an article about his situation in 2014.

Being banned from the facilities could have done it, but he had the playbook and wasn't up to speed.  Also, the reads he was supposed to be making are things that are supposed to be general knowledge for WRs, not something that he would have been learning those first 10 weeks.  (http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/11039/josh-gordons-2014-season-was-very-mysterious-very-disappointing)

I like Gordon, I'm just saying we should temper our expectations until we see him perform like the juggernaut we know he can be.  No clue what his redraft value should be, but I'm happy I own him in Dynasty.  Just saying that he wasn't great the last time we saw him, and part of that was on him.
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Careful; some might say this is proof you think he is a no-good pothead & want him to fail.

 
When he gets reinstated, maybe he'll read the playbook. Seems like a smart thing to do. 

Maybe he thought it was against the rules to study while he was suspended. 

Hopefully we get an Instagram of him reading soon. #studying #hardwork #ignorethehaterz

 
Chaka said:
I don't know how many players could go from zero participation in the offseason program to top flight production in week 11 (he did go 8 for 120 btw) through 17 regardless of whether or not they had the playbook.

Three weeks of in season practice does not seem like a reasonable amount of time to expect a player of any caliber to perform at their peak.  Particularly when the coaches didn't have nearly the time to give JG the extra attention he would need in favor of the guys who had been there the entire time.

How is this even a question?
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My main points were just to correct Soulfly and to point out that maybe we should temper expectations for him this year.  He's been out of football for a year, he might not be amazing right out of the gate.

Pretty sure that's a reasonable stance.

 
Free agent Travis Benjamin's player rep tells NFL.com's Rand Getlin that talks with the Browns have "broken down," and that his client will hit the open market.
It's a negotiating ploy. The Browns still have 15 more days to get Benjamin under contract before the start of the new league year. ESPN Cleveland's Tony Grossi reported Monday that a deal was "close." Benjamin still seems more likely than not to remain in Cleveland. Feb 23 - 6:19 PM

Source: Rand Getlin on Twitter
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Or is it because the Browns know they will have their #1 dog reinstate soon ... hmmmmm

 
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