Julius Jones: I Was Running "Like a Robot" (1 Viewer)

[Delusions Of Adequacy]

Every underachieving player blames the prevous coach/system.

I don't expect much more production from JJ than in 2006.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Terrific discussion, here, everyone.

At the end of the day, I am still on the fence.

MBIII has looked clearly better in 2005 and 2006.

BUT

Julius Jones looked like a future stud in 2004.

It is suspect to blame the past regime for your failings.

BUT

Jones depiction of what happens matches almost exactly with what I (and many others) saw. He really did run like a robot, after being a much more aggressive back in 04.

This will definitely be one of my favorite RB situations to track. Assuming that MBIII costs a 4th, and Julius costs a 7th, what is the shark move here:

1) Take MBIII, forget JJ, he'll be a backup.

2) Take JJ, forget MBIII, Julius is back this year.

3) Take em both and start the hot hand.

4) Avoid the situation because it'll drive you nuts.

poll-worthy?

 

[BigJim®]

This will definitely be one of my favorite RB situations to track. Assuming that MBIII costs a 4th, and Julius costs a 7th, what is the shark move here:1) Take MBIII, forget JJ, he'll be a backup.2) Take JJ, forget MBIII, Julius is back this year.3) Take em both and start the hot hand.4) Avoid the situation because it'll drive you nuts.poll-worthy?

If your draft starts today, I'm with #4. I would hope this situation gets a little clearer during training camp. It's just to hard to forecast much with a new coaching staff.

 

[BigTex]

Terrific discussion, here, everyone.At the end of the day, I am still on the fence.MBIII has looked clearly better in 2005 and 2006.BUTJulius Jones looked like a future stud in 2004. It is suspect to blame the past regime for your failings.BUTJones depiction of what happens matches almost exactly with what I (and many others) saw. He really did run like a robot, after being a much more aggressive back in 04.This will definitely be one of my favorite RB situations to track. Assuming that MBIII costs a 4th, and Julius costs a 7th, what is the shark move here:1) Take MBIII, forget JJ, he'll be a backup.2) Take JJ, forget MBIII, Julius is back this year.3) Take em both and start the hot hand.4) Avoid the situation because it'll drive you nuts.poll-worthy?

Yes, poll-worth. But here's the issue, most outsiders will probably vote of MBIII while most locals will probably vote for JJ. The reason I say this is simply because it's mainly the outsiders who drafted or pushing for MBIII media and FF alike. The locals either recognize that JJ's running style was altered and clearly saw the difference or don't think either is the future.:twocents: :twocents:

 

[packersfan]

I just think it would be unwise to automatically assume Barber is going to become "The Guy" in the backfield.

Even though I said I'd personally put my money on Barber, I'm definitely not assuming anything. I've said on a few occasions that MBIII is the single hardest player to value heading into 2007. I honestly don't think there is any debating that. However, this thread is the epitome of deja vu. I find it sort of laughable that all "the usual suspects" are willing to scapegoat Bill Parcells to validate JJ when only one of Dallas' RBs seemed to have this problem adapting to the offense without turning into a mediocre RB. I mean alert the media, coaches typically want RBs to hit the designed hole for a particular blocking scheme. This guy named Curtis Martin seemed to do ok in that system. Ultimately JJ is an oft-injured homerun threat who doesn't seem superior to MBIII at much of anything but whining and making excuses, IMHO. Maybe that will work for him and place a more productive RB on the bench... stranger things have happened.

I could be a Barber owner this year in my keeper league so I have a vested interest. However, I'm also on record as saying I like both RBs quite a bit (I would've loved to see the Packers trade for Jones, for example). But even though I could be a Barber owner I fully expect 2007 to be a repeat of 2006 in terms of roles. It simply worked too well for the Cowboys to consider a change. Not only did it work well but it also kept Jones healthy for the first time in his career. I think the Cowboys have a good deal at RB with the way they use both guys and I don't see a new head coach changing a positional strength.

 

[redman]

As a big Cowboy fan, I've thought a fair amount about this topic and JJ's quotes.

Basically, I think JJ is making excuses for being an average/good back instead of a premier back. Yes, Parcells was inside his head. But there was a reason Parcells was on him. I'll leave it at that.

Its important to note that Dallas' running game scheme will not change next year. Running game coordinator/O-line coach, Tony Sporano, was held over from Parcells' staff. This part of the playbook is unchanged.

I'd be surprised if you saw a material change in how JJ and MB3 are used. The pair was very effective last year in their respective roles. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I'd expect JJ to be around 1000-1200 yards and a handfull of TD. Barber maybe 500 yards again with the goal-line carries.

lets see now, take the word of a HOF coach or a 'never has been' named Julius Jones.

he must've talked to T.O., because both came out with similar statements on the same day.

So has Roy Williams, D. Ware, and Greg Ellis. TO and JJ are not the only ones glad to see the Bill go.

Good to see that all the underachievers are in on the act.

 

[Cowboys#1]

As a big Cowboy fan, I've thought a fair amount about this topic and JJ's quotes.

Basically, I think JJ is making excuses for being an average/good back instead of a premier back. Yes, Parcells was inside his head. But there was a reason Parcells was on him. I'll leave it at that.

Its important to note that Dallas' running game scheme will not change next year. Running game coordinator/O-line coach, Tony Sporano, was held over from Parcells' staff. This part of the playbook is unchanged.

I'd be surprised if you saw a material change in how JJ and MB3 are used. The pair was very effective last year in their respective roles. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I'd expect JJ to be around 1000-1200 yards and a handfull of TD. Barber maybe 500 yards again with the goal-line carries.

lets see now, take the word of a HOF coach or a 'never has been' named Julius Jones.

he must've talked to T.O., because both came out with similar statements on the same day.

So has Roy Williams, D. Ware, and Greg Ellis. TO and JJ are not the only ones glad to see the Bill go.

Good to see that all the underachievers are in on the act.

ya damn that D. Ware always underacheiving!

 

[redman]

As a big Cowboy fan, I've thought a fair amount about this topic and JJ's quotes.

Basically, I think JJ is making excuses for being an average/good back instead of a premier back. Yes, Parcells was inside his head. But there was a reason Parcells was on him. I'll leave it at that.

Its important to note that Dallas' running game scheme will not change next year. Running game coordinator/O-line coach, Tony Sporano, was held over from Parcells' staff. This part of the playbook is unchanged.

I'd be surprised if you saw a material change in how JJ and MB3 are used. The pair was very effective last year in their respective roles. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I'd expect JJ to be around 1000-1200 yards and a handfull of TD. Barber maybe 500 yards again with the goal-line carries.

lets see now, take the word of a HOF coach or a 'never has been' named Julius Jones.

he must've talked to T.O., because both came out with similar statements on the same day.

So has Roy Williams, D. Ware, and Greg Ellis. TO and JJ are not the only ones glad to see the Bill go.

Good to see that all the underachievers are in on the act.

ya damn that D. Ware always underacheiving!

Admit it, he has holes in his game. He's getting better though, I grant you that, and he'll likely be the biggest beneficiary of Phillips on the entire team.

 

[Chaos Commish]

As a big Cowboy fan, I've thought a fair amount about this topic and JJ's quotes.

Basically, I think JJ is making excuses for being an average/good back instead of a premier back. Yes, Parcells was inside his head. But there was a reason Parcells was on him. I'll leave it at that.

Its important to note that Dallas' running game scheme will not change next year. Running game coordinator/O-line coach, Tony Sporano, was held over from Parcells' staff. This part of the playbook is unchanged.

I'd be surprised if you saw a material change in how JJ and MB3 are used. The pair was very effective last year in their respective roles. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I'd expect JJ to be around 1000-1200 yards and a handfull of TD. Barber maybe 500 yards again with the goal-line carries.

lets see now, take the word of a HOF coach or a 'never has been' named Julius Jones.

he must've talked to T.O., because both came out with similar statements on the same day.

So has Roy Williams, D. Ware, and Greg Ellis. TO and JJ are not the only ones glad to see the Bill go.

Good to see that all the underachievers are in on the act.

Add Burnett and Spears to the list.

 

[AnonymousBob]

Terrific discussion, here, everyone.At the end of the day, I am still on the fence.MBIII has looked clearly better in 2005 and 2006.BUTJulius Jones looked like a future stud in 2004. It is suspect to blame the past regime for your failings.BUTJones depiction of what happens matches almost exactly with what I (and many others) saw. He really did run like a robot, after being a much more aggressive back in 04.This will definitely be one of my favorite RB situations to track. Assuming that MBIII costs a 4th, and Julius costs a 7th, what is the shark move here:1) Take MBIII, forget JJ, he'll be a backup.2) Take JJ, forget MBIII, Julius is back this year.3) Take em both and start the hot hand.4) Avoid the situation because it'll drive you nuts.poll-worthy?

I'll take a flyer on Jones in the seventh because the upside for such a late round pick is tremendous. I would pass on Barber if he were going to cost me a fourth. At this point in the preseason I don't believe either one is worthy of a higher round pick. Some people have no problem with that kind of gamble but it's too much risk for me to spend anything more than a sixth.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

Okay seriously...

How often was Parcells bad for a RB during his career? Parcells seems to be one of the BEST at getting the most out of marginal players. Troy Hambrick, Vinny Testaverde, Quincy Carter etc etc.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Just mentioning it now - everyone knows I come down on the MB3 side of this discussion.

I predict that for the 3rd year in a row, MB3 outproduces JJ, and JJ isn't extended for 2008.

Further, with Cleveland's pick, Dallas is in a perfect spot to replace JJ and compliment MB3. (McFadden likely).

Where does JJ go? I say Cleveland as a FA.

The good news for the Browns is that they saved $$ on their QB by getting Brady late and also won't have to pay a first rounder next season - so they will be a bigger player (or should be) in 2008 FA.

So - I'm just saying that this is "my call" - Julius Jones in Cleveland backfield in 2008.

 

[TecmoBeast]

I think you'll Stroud, Pat Williams, and Shaun Ellis serviceable among that bunch with the 2-pt tackles. Get some steady tackle guys for the time being, then grab some young guys and hope they bust out. Nickovich and Tapp were already mentioned and you still got the draft

 

[BigTex]

As a big Cowboy fan, I've thought a fair amount about this topic and JJ's quotes.

Basically, I think JJ is making excuses for being an average/good back instead of a premier back. Yes, Parcells was inside his head. But there was a reason Parcells was on him. I'll leave it at that.

Its important to note that Dallas' running game scheme will not change next year. Running game coordinator/O-line coach, Tony Sporano, was held over from Parcells' staff. This part of the playbook is unchanged.

I'd be surprised if you saw a material change in how JJ and MB3 are used. The pair was very effective last year in their respective roles. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I'd expect JJ to be around 1000-1200 yards and a handfull of TD. Barber maybe 500 yards again with the goal-line carries.

lets see now, take the word of a HOF coach or a 'never has been' named Julius Jones.

he must've talked to T.O., because both came out with similar statements on the same day.

So has Roy Williams, D. Ware, and Greg Ellis. TO and JJ are not the only ones glad to see the Bill go.

Good to see that all the underachievers are in on the act.

Yep, Bill living in the past had it's effect on these guys, even Redskin fans recognize this.

 

[BigTex]

I think you'll Stroud, Pat Williams, and Shaun Ellis serviceable among that bunch with the 2-pt tackles. Get some steady tackle guys for the time being, then grab some young guys and hope they bust out. Nickovich and Tapp were already mentioned and you still got the draft

WTH?

 

[BigTex]

Okay seriously...How often was Parcells bad for a RB during his career? Parcells seems to be one of the BEST at getting the most out of marginal players. Troy Hambrick, Vinny Testaverde, Quincy Carter etc etc.

Seriously, I'm speechless..................guess I'll go to bed.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

JJ is a better natural athlete and runner than his brother Thomas Jones.

Sadly, he's either been injured or misused much of his college and pro career.

Give him a chance to shine like TJ finally got in Chicago, and I think you'll see him really emerge.

 

[redman]

Sorry, it had to be done.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Domo arigato Julius roboto

 

[Silver & Black]

I think the situation in Dallas is the premier rbbc. And Dallas loves it.

While us fantasy ballers want one rb to carry the load and get the lion's share of the carries, the team obviously thinks differently. And rightfully so.

If Dallas is smart, they will rotate both backs, thus keeping defenses confused while at the same time, keeping both backs healthy and fresh.

Sucks for us, but is a good recipe for success as a team.

 

[Ridgelake]

This is a quote from Mickey Spagnola, a Cowboy beat writer, on observations of Mini-camp and the JJ/MB3 debate.

The two-back system: Everyone wants to know if Phillips is an advocate of the two-back system employed the past two year by Parcells, meaning divvying up the carries between Julius Jones and Marion Barber. Seems to be a hot topic for some reason, although, if you add up their numbers from last year, Julius Barber carried the ball 402 times, for 1,738 yards (4.3 yards per carry) and 18 touchdowns. But for some reason, folks have problems with that. Just got to be one or the other. As for Phillips, when asked which he prefers, the new head coach said, "Whatever works and fits your personnel, and (sharing) seemed to fit here. I think we'll continue to do that here." Oh, by the way, if you put the combined numbers of Julius Barber up against the rest of the league, only two guys rushed for more yards, San Diego's LaDainian Tomlinson (1,815) and Kansas City's Larry Johnson (1,789), each with more carries, too. And only Tomlinson, of course, had more touchdowns (28). Again, be careful what you ask for, because in your attempt to get more, you might end up getting less.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

This is a quote from Mickey Spagnola, a Cowboy beat writer, on observations of Mini-camp and the JJ/MB3 debate.

The two-back system: Everyone wants to know if Phillips is an advocate of the two-back system employed the past two year by Parcells, meaning divvying up the carries between Julius Jones and Marion Barber. Seems to be a hot topic for some reason, although, if you add up their numbers from last year, Julius Barber carried the ball 402 times, for 1,738 yards (4.3 yards per carry) and 18 touchdowns. But for some reason, folks have problems with that. Just got to be one or the other. As for Phillips, when asked which he prefers, the new head coach said, "Whatever works and fits your personnel, and (sharing) seemed to fit here. I think we'll continue to do that here." Oh, by the way, if you put the combined numbers of Julius Barber up against the rest of the league, only two guys rushed for more yards, San Diego's LaDainian Tomlinson (1,815) and Kansas City's Larry Johnson (1,789), each with more carries, too. And only Tomlinson, of course, had more touchdowns (28). Again, be careful what you ask for, because in your attempt to get more, you might end up getting less.

"Julius Barber"...I guess Marion Jones was taken...

 

[redman]

This is a quote from Mickey Spagnola, a Cowboy beat writer, on observations of Mini-camp and the JJ/MB3 debate.

The two-back system: Everyone wants to know if Phillips is an advocate of the two-back system employed the past two year by Parcells, meaning divvying up the carries between Julius Jones and Marion Barber. Seems to be a hot topic for some reason, although, if you add up their numbers from last year, Julius Barber carried the ball 402 times, for 1,738 yards (4.3 yards per carry) and 18 touchdowns. But for some reason, folks have problems with that. Just got to be one or the other. As for Phillips, when asked which he prefers, the new head coach said, "Whatever works and fits your personnel, and (sharing) seemed to fit here. I think we'll continue to do that here." Oh, by the way, if you put the combined numbers of Julius Barber up against the rest of the league, only two guys rushed for more yards, San Diego's LaDainian Tomlinson (1,815) and Kansas City's Larry Johnson (1,789), each with more carries, too. And only Tomlinson, of course, had more touchdowns (28). Again, be careful what you ask for, because in your attempt to get more, you might end up getting less.

"Julius Barber"...I guess Marion Jones was taken...

. . . and in violation of the league's substance abuse policy.

 

[massraider]

I think the situation in Dallas is the premier rbbc. And Dallas loves it.While us fantasy ballers want one rb to carry the load and get the lion's share of the carries, the team obviously thinks differently. And rightfully so. If Dallas is smart, they will rotate both backs, thus keeping defenses confused while at the same time, keeping both backs healthy and fresh.Sucks for us, but is a good recipe for success as a team.

Yeah, I think people are going to be looking for signs that one guy becomes the undisputed #1, and will draft according to who they think takes the job, when I think the scenario you laid out is more likely.I could see a situation where the Boys play the hot hand, and maybe one guy will establish himself as the better back, but I think it'll be RBBC for trhe majority of the year.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Barber's the much better back, IMO. I don't even think it's close.

 

[Phurfur]

Sorry, it had to be done.

How aboutANGER! DANGER! Will Parcels, DANGER!

For those of you who remember "Lost In Space"

 

[cowboy homer]

Barber's the much better back, IMO. I don't even think it's close.

Thats your opinion but why do you think its not even close?

 

[BigJim®]

I just told my boss today that I don't like his methods. I feel like a robot when he makes me "follow bureaucratic corporate protocol" and "show up to meetings exactly when scheduled." He even thinks I need to be on the same page with those "other people" who are coordinating projects involving me, as if knowing where I'm at and what I'm doing is somehow "beneficial to the team." That's not my strength; it's more fitting of my own personal skillset to be a freelancer. You know, playing the "do what I want to do" role.

You guys understand where I'm coming from, right?

 

[PatsWillWin]

I just told my boss today that I don't like his methods. I feel like a robot when he makes me "follow bureaucratic corporate protocol" and "show up to meetings exactly when scheduled." He even thinks I need to be on the same page with those "other people" who are coordinating projects involving me, as if knowing where I'm at and what I'm doing is somehow "beneficial to the team." That's not my strength; it's more fitting of my own personal skillset to be a freelancer. You know, playing the "do what I want to do" role.You guys understand where I'm coming from, right?

Well so are you going to be a better worker or a worse worker with your new boss???

 

[Marc Faletti]

I just told my boss today that I don't like his methods. I feel like a robot when he makes me "follow bureaucratic corporate protocol" and "show up to meetings exactly when scheduled." He even thinks I need to be on the same page with those "other people" who are coordinating projects involving me, as if knowing what I'm doing is somehow beneficial to the team. That's not my strength; it's more fitting of my own personal skillset playing the "do what I want to do" role.You guys understand where I'm coming from, right?

I just told my boss today that I don't like his methods. I feel like a robot when he tells me every word to include in each of my emails and orders me to keep trying to shove his products down the throats of people even when there's no chance of them purchasing them. He even thinks I need to follow through with every letter of his orders no matter what, even if I see a better option in a moment when I don't have the time to consult with him first. That's not my strength; it's more fitting of my own personal skillset not to be be micromanaged into the ground. You understand where I'm coming from, right, BigJim? -----Not to keep playing devil's advocate here (b/c I do like MB3 a bit more than Julius Jones), but there _could_ be something to this idea, and I think it might be premature to just laugh it off.

 

[BigJim®]

I just told my boss today that I don't like his methods. I feel like a robot when he makes me "follow bureaucratic corporate protocol" and "show up to meetings exactly when scheduled." He even thinks I need to be on the same page with those "other people" who are coordinating projects involving me, as if knowing where I'm at and what I'm doing is somehow "beneficial to the team." That's not my strength; it's more fitting of my own personal skillset to be a freelancer. You know, playing the "do what I want to do" role.You guys understand where I'm coming from, right?

Well so are you going to be a better worker or a worse worker with your new boss???

Not sure. He called my back-up into his office immediately after I left. I think that's a good sign. *fingers crossed*

 

[BigJim®]

Not to keep playing devil's advocate here (b/c I do like MB3 a bit more than Julius Jones), but there _could_ be something to this idea, and I think it might be premature to just laugh it off.

Well, we've both had our fun with it and I can see your point. Difference being: I'm a bad team player and you need a new job because you aren't a badgering sales person. On the more serious question of whining about "strict adherence to plays" I've seen plays drawn up on a chalk board. They have lots of X's, lot's of O's, and lot's of lines showing where people are supposed to go. I have to believe those lines telling people where to go are somewhat critical to blocking assignments and overall execution. Maybe I'm mistaken. Are coaches generally fine with freelancing plays? I would have guessed a guy is better doing what is asked of him and failing than doing something on his own to the surprise of his teammates and coaches.

 

[monkeysee]

I think you'll Stroud, Pat Williams, and Shaun Ellis serviceable among that bunch with the 2-pt tackles. Get some steady tackle guys for the time being, then grab some young guys and hope they bust out. Nickovich and Tapp were already mentioned and you still got the draft

WTH?

 

[BigRed]

Oh geez. With apologists like this I don't see why JJ even feels a need to make whiny excuses for himself.

Actually it seems there's apologists for both and neither is exactly the next LT, so I think it RBBC this year makes sense and is likely.As for stats, they only tell part of the story and it's easy to use them to "prove" one side or the other. Having said that, I admit that I didn't see much of either of these guys last year, but the thing that stuck out to me stats-wise was that JJ was like 2 diff RBs in 1st and 2d half. As for Barber, I'd say it's hard to fairly as better or worse than JJ based on a whopping 8-9 carries a game avg. It's one thing to be successful that way, quite another to carry the load.

 

[rzrback77]

I have fallen into the camp that RBBC will continue to prevail in Dallas. And as such, didn't see how drafting MB3 as early as he has been going could possibly be productive, but the number of folks stressing the goal line work made me curious. Below is a comparison of the Red Zone and Goal Line numbers for last year.

It's an ugly comparison, both format and in actuality. Rush attempts, yards, TDs, targets, catches, yds, TDs, total opportunities, and TDs.

Red Zone

Barber 55-181-14-3-3-10-2-58-16

J Jones 57-162-2-1-1-15-0-58-2

I thought at this point that maybe most of JJ's were just inside the twenty and Barber got the goal line, kind of like a closer in baseball after the set-up reliever got it ready.

Goal Line

Barber 25-31-11-2-2-3-2-27-13

J Jones 8-9-1-0-0-0-0-8-1

Yes, Jones got fewer opportunities on the goal line, but man did Barber make those opportunities count.