Just go ahead and eliminate instant replay now (1 Viewer)

[Ghost Rider]

For those saying the refs totally blew the call on the field, yes they did, but think of it this way: how many times have we seen a play get blown dead when it should have kept going? Now, yes, Forsett was down, but what if the situation had been reversed, where Forsett wasn't down but the refs blew it dead, and since nothing can happen after the whistle, the Texans got robbed of an 81-yard TD? Replay has made it to where plays are allowed to run and then if the play really was over, replay will fix it. Had Schwartz not let his emotions get the best of him and thrown the flag, that is exactly what would have happened.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

For those saying the refs totally blew the call on the field, yes they did, but think of it this way: how many times have we seen a play get blown dead when it should have kept going? Now, yes, Forsett was down, but what if the situation had been reversed, where Forsett wasn't down but the refs blew it dead, and since nothing can happen after the whistle, the Texans got robbed of an 81-yard TD? Replay has made it to where plays are allowed to run and then if the play really was over, replay will fix it. Had Schwartz not let his emotions get the best of him and thrown the flag, that is exactly what would have happened.

The correct thing (once they fix the rules) would be to spot the ball where he was down and mark off 15 yards.

 

[Rick James]

same thing happened last week to Mike Smith. crazy rule

 

[Ilov80s]

I would think this play is an argument in favor of instant replay.

This is how convoluted the situation has become. Refs are encouraged not to blow the whistle so that plays can be reviewed. Refs are encouraged to not whistle him down there. Without replay, maybe the refs blow the play dead.

Nothing wrong with that, instant replay can easily bring that back. What if he didn't touch his knee or elbow and ran it in for a TD? Now the refs whistled it dead and the Texans lost a big play... THE COACH SCREWED THIS UP, if Schwartz woudn't have had thrown the challenge flag there wouldn't have been an issue.

Right, my point was just the irony that if there was no replay and refs weren't encouraged to let plays go, the refs on the field would have probably gotten it right in the first place.

 

[Ilov80s]

Is there another league with worse rules than the NFL? It is a joke. College football is such a better product. It isn't close.

Yup love a sport where 1 loss makes the season pointless...Also love the fact that teams in the SEC will pay players to play so they can get the best players.I will stick with the NFL.

At least college football knows what a catch is. The NFL has overthought everything.

 

[Ghost Rider]

For those saying the refs totally blew the call on the field, yes they did, but think of it this way: how many times have we seen a play get blown dead when it should have kept going? Now, yes, Forsett was down, but what if the situation had been reversed, where Forsett wasn't down but the refs blew it dead, and since nothing can happen after the whistle, the Texans got robbed of an 81-yard TD? Replay has made it to where plays are allowed to run and then if the play really was over, replay will fix it. Had Schwartz not let his emotions get the best of him and thrown the flag, that is exactly what would have happened.

The correct thing (once they fix the rules) would be to spot the ball where he was down and mark off 15 yards.

Agreed, but stupid rule or not, Schwartz blew it. Either he didn't know the rule (which seems impossible) or he let his emotions get the best of him, which cost his team.

 

[kupcho1]

They will change the rule this offseason. No worries.And for those saying we should get of instant replay because there is a stupid rule about how/when the challenge flag can be thrown (which wasn't an issue until this year - won't be after this year - and has only affected the idiot Lion's head coach) y'all need to slow you roll and not be calling to throw out the baby with the bath water. And I'm sorry if it cost you your game.

yeah no worries. Good luck next yearAnd ftr, they blew a challenged call earlier when the ball hit the Texan on the punt and the ruling on the field stood. Just awful. End it. It doesn't work and sucks the life right out of the game.

 

[DoubleG]

They will change the rule this offseason. No worries.And for those saying we should get of instant replay because there is a stupid rule about how/when the challenge flag can be thrown (which wasn't an issue until this year - won't be after this year - and has only affected the idiot Lion's head coach) y'all need to slow you roll and not be calling to throw out the baby with the bath water. And I'm sorry if it cost you your game.

yeah no worries. Good luck next yearAnd ftr, they blew a challenged call earlier when the ball hit the Texan on the punt and the ruling on the field stood. Just awful. End it. It doesn't work and sucks the life right out of the game.

Yesterday's Detroit/Texans game was a great Thanksgiving game.

 

[chickensoup]

Rules like this make it into the books to keep the number of things refs, coaches and players need to memorize to a minimum. It was put in for a specific purpose and were just now seeing the consequence.

Without thinking about this specific incident, think of all the possibilities for any given rule for how something should be fair to both sides on any given rule. It lengthens the rule book, forces more reviews to ensure correct calls are made for every instance, slows the game down etc.

The NFL can't think of every possibility for every rule they make, and the refs can only enforce the rules as written. The refs made a bad call not calling him down in the first place, but Schwartz was a moron for throwing a flag when the rules clearly state that he cannot and gives the penalties for doing so.

Was it unfair what happened? Absolutely. Will that specific rule get changed? Yes. But that's why this happened.

 

[Sebowski]

Replays = Commercials. They aren't going anywhere.

I bet we spend more time during a football broadcast watching commercials then we do watching snap-to-whistle actual playing of the game.

 

[renesauz]

I don't think anyone is defending the "can't be reviewed" part of this.

Maybe not, but a lot of people are putting 90% of the onus on Schwartz for screwing up, when 90% should be on a horrible rule OR the ridiculous interpretation of the rule (reading the rule....it's not very clear).Schwartz's error doesn't deserve the pnishment received, no matter how stupid anyone thinks he is.

But the rule is already there...like it or not.The Onus is on Schwartz in this case because...bad rule or good rule...he should know the freaking rules and screwed the pooch.And the rule is clear enough...and dumb...and no, his error should be no more than 15 yards...but the rule as it is penalizes more than that.

Obviously...you haven't actually read the rule. It talks about delaying the next snap. No way on Gods green Earth you could persuade a neutral arbitrator that Schwartz throwing that red flag delayed the next snap. So no...the rule is anything but clear. NOW...that said...the NFL might well have explained to coaches how it would be enforced and told the refs to enforce it on plays like this.Are you actually defending this dumb rule, or trying to argue that since Schwartz knew the rule, it was fair? If the penalty for speeding is death...does that make it fair as long as you know the rule before you drive? (Ridiculous analogy perhaps, but the point is the same...knowledge of a rule/law doesn't make that rule/law sensible).The rule needs to be changed, regardless of who you want to blame. Whether you blame the refs, the NFL, or Schwartz is immaterial to the fact that the rule is dumb the way it was enforced (whether or not that enforcement was correct), and it needs to be changed. Personally, I place blame as 60% NFL, 20% refs (should have never missed the call to begin with), and 20% Schwartz. But the truth is...somebody else would have eventually made this mistake, and we would have eventually been talking about it. I find the mistakes of the refs and coach understandable since they were made in the heat of the moment, but the mistake of the NFL is NOT, because the rule is heavy handed and silly, and someone should have seen this possibility when the wrote it.

 

[renesauz]

For those saying the refs totally blew the call on the field, yes they did, but think of it this way: how many times have we seen a play get blown dead when it should have kept going? Now, yes, Forsett was down, but what if the situation had been reversed, where Forsett wasn't down but the refs blew it dead, and since nothing can happen after the whistle, the Texans got robbed of an 81-yard TD? Replay has made it to where plays are allowed to run and then if the play really was over, replay will fix it. Had Schwartz not let his emotions get the best of him and thrown the flag, that is exactly what would have happened.

The correct thing (once they fix the rules) would be to spot the ball where he was down and mark off 15 yards.

(Personally, I would change it to 5 yards (Delay of game penalty), but the concept's the same)

 

[sho nuff]

I don't think anyone is defending the "can't be reviewed" part of this.

Maybe not, but a lot of people are putting 90% of the onus on Schwartz for screwing up, when 90% should be on a horrible rule OR the ridiculous interpretation of the rule (reading the rule....it's not very clear).Schwartz's error doesn't deserve the pnishment received, no matter how stupid anyone thinks he is.

But the rule is already there...like it or not.The Onus is on Schwartz in this case because...bad rule or good rule...he should know the freaking rules and screwed the pooch.And the rule is clear enough...and dumb...and no, his error should be no more than 15 yards...but the rule as it is penalizes more than that.

Obviously...you haven't actually read the rule. It talks about delaying the next snap. No way on Gods green Earth you could persuade a neutral arbitrator that Schwartz throwing that red flag delayed the next snap. So no...the rule is anything but clear. NOW...that said...the NFL might well have explained to coaches how it would be enforced and told the refs to enforce it on plays like this.Are you actually defending this dumb rule, or trying to argue that since Schwartz knew the rule, it was fair? If the penalty for speeding is death...does that make it fair as long as you know the rule before you drive? (Ridiculous analogy perhaps, but the point is the same...knowledge of a rule/law doesn't make that rule/law sensible).The rule needs to be changed, regardless of who you want to blame. Whether you blame the refs, the NFL, or Schwartz is immaterial to the fact that the rule is dumb the way it was enforced (whether or not that enforcement was correct), and it needs to be changed. Personally, I place blame as 60% NFL, 20% refs (should have never missed the call to begin with), and 20% Schwartz. But the truth is...somebody else would have eventually made this mistake, and we would have eventually been talking about it. I find the mistakes of the refs and coach understandable since they were made in the heat of the moment, but the mistake of the NFL is NOT, because the rule is heavy handed and silly, and someone should have seen this possibility when the wrote it.

Keep up the effort boss. The rule sucks....even Schwartz admits he messed up. And yes....his throwing the flag delays things as the infield ref has to come talk to him.No defending the rule....just that despite your incessant whining, the rule is clear enough to most everyone and had been applied before.

 

[packseasontix]

I don't think anyone is defending the "can't be reviewed" part of this.

Maybe not, but a lot of people are putting 90% of the onus on Schwartz for screwing up, when 90% should be on a horrible rule OR the ridiculous interpretation of the rule (reading the rule....it's not very clear).Schwartz's error doesn't deserve the pnishment received, no matter how stupid anyone thinks he is.

But the rule is already there...like it or not.The Onus is on Schwartz in this case because...bad rule or good rule...he should know the freaking rules and screwed the pooch.And the rule is clear enough...and dumb...and no, his error should be no more than 15 yards...but the rule as it is penalizes more than that.

Obviously...you haven't actually read the rule. It talks about delaying the next snap. No way on Gods green Earth you could persuade a neutral arbitrator that Schwartz throwing that red flag delayed the next snap. So no...the rule is anything but clear. NOW...that said...the NFL might well have explained to coaches how it would be enforced and told the refs to enforce it on plays like this.Are you actually defending this dumb rule, or trying to argue that since Schwartz knew the rule, it was fair? If the penalty for speeding is death...does that make it fair as long as you know the rule before you drive? (Ridiculous analogy perhaps, but the point is the same...knowledge of a rule/law doesn't make that rule/law sensible).The rule needs to be changed, regardless of who you want to blame. Whether you blame the refs, the NFL, or Schwartz is immaterial to the fact that the rule is dumb the way it was enforced (whether or not that enforcement was correct), and it needs to be changed. Personally, I place blame as 60% NFL, 20% refs (should have never missed the call to begin with), and 20% Schwartz. But the truth is...somebody else would have eventually made this mistake, and we would have eventually been talking about it. I find the mistakes of the refs and coach understandable since they were made in the heat of the moment, but the mistake of the NFL is NOT, because the rule is heavy handed and silly, and someone should have seen this possibility when the wrote it.

Keep up the effort boss. The rule sucks....even Schwartz admits he messed up. And yes....his throwing the flag delays things as the infield ref has to come talk to him.No defending the rule....just that despite your incessant whining, the rule is clear enough to most everyone and had been applied before.

HAHAHAHA would have happened sometime? Its happened 3 times already this year. So its not happening sometime, its already happened before yesterday.

 

[Proximo]

Dumb thread; IR is extremely important. The rule re: Schwartz' screw up needs to change though

 

[JAK Straw]

"Schartz should know the rule"...but the refs, whose entire job is enforcing the rules, got it wrong, and get it wrong all the time. So how much should Schwartz and the Lions really be penalized?

 

[packseasontix]

"Schartz should know the rule"...but the refs, whose entire job is enforcing the rules, got it wrong, and get it wrong all the time. So how much should Schwartz and the Lions really be penalized?

Got what wrong? Missed the call yes they did.... Miss interpreted the fact that the flag thrown for the illegal challenge didn't delay the game? That is the ruling and causes the booth review not to be allowed after any penalty that CAN and I repeat CAN cause a delay in the snap.It does not HAVE to delay the snap just needs to POSSIBLY POTENTIALLY delay the snap.

 

[Sea Duck]

This thread reminds me of the Star Trek episode where Wesley accidentally committed a capital offense and was sentenced to death.

 

[kupcho1]

Dumb thread; IR is extremely important. The rule re: Schwartz' screw up needs to change though

Football was better before instant replay.

 

[General Tso]

Agree 100% that watching football was WAY better before instant replay. They need to get rid of replay asap. Reduce the number of rules. Make the game easier to officiate. Take the damn refs, yellow flags, and choppy delays out of the game as much as possible. Some examples to get started... No more two feet in bounds rule. It's unnecessary and too difficult for the human eye to see. One foot is good enough. That's just one example. The NFL has been very fortunate to have survived its most recent upstart rival leagues. Next time they might not be so lucky. Boxing says hello.

 

[ldizzle]

Ive skimmed through this and i think it was peter king or someone else (i cant recall), but what if the texans threw the challenge flag to screw the lions from bieng able to challenge the call? Maybe we see that this weekend where the scoring team scores a close td then throws the challenge flag, then what?

 

[Sea Duck]

Ive skimmed through this and i think it was peter king or someone else (i cant recall), but what if the texans threw the challenge flag to screw the lions from bieng able to challenge the call? Maybe we see that this weekend where the scoring team scores a close td then throws the challenge flag, then what?

The refs would impose a 15 yard penalty but would NOT stop the play from being reviewed. Here's the text from the NFL rules:"The Replay Official cannot initiate a review of any ruling against a team that commits a foul that delays the next snap."

 

[wormburner]

"Schartz should know the rule"...but the refs, whose entire job is enforcing the rules, got it wrong, and get it wrong all the time. So how much should Schwartz and the Lions really be penalized?

Got what wrong? Missed the call yes they did.... Miss interpreted the fact that the flag thrown for the illegal challenge didn't delay the game? That is the ruling and causes the booth review not to be allowed after any penalty that CAN and I repeat CAN cause a delay in the snap.It does not HAVE to delay the snap just needs to POSSIBLY POTENTIALLY delay the snap.

Possibly potentially? The only thing worse than bureaucrats rewriting the simplicity of sports in triplicate are "sports fans" who speak the same language.

 

[packseasontix]

"Schartz should know the rule"...but the refs, whose entire job is enforcing the rules, got it wrong, and get it wrong all the time. So how much should Schwartz and the Lions really be penalized?

Got what wrong? Missed the call yes they did.... Miss interpreted the fact that the flag thrown for the illegal challenge didn't delay the game? That is the ruling and causes the booth review not to be allowed after any penalty that CAN and I repeat CAN cause a delay in the snap.It does not HAVE to delay the snap just needs to POSSIBLY POTENTIALLY delay the snap.

Possibly potentially? The only thing worse than bureaucrats rewriting the simplicity of sports in triplicate are "sports fans" who speak the same language.

Only thing worse than a homer is someone who can't understand what the rule is...I am trying to hammer home the fact that it could delay the snap. People keep arguing that it didnt delay the snap, well it doesnt have to, it just needs the possibility of delaying it.

Also, basically your trying to say in a round about way I am stupid for understanding what the rule is. Its like saying a lawyer is horrible just because he understands the law. If you have a real career don't you know your contract inside and out, even though some of the stuff in it is ridiculous sometimes? I didnt make up my non-compete clause but I know everything I can take with me and what jobs I can get if I choose to leave my current position.

You need to understand the rules you dont have to agree with all of them. Also the NFL rules are EXTREMELY straight forward and easy to learn as they could have made a rule around this challenge flag thrown different for every circumstance from 2:00, to TD, to INT...

 

[voiceofunreason]

I tried to make this argument last week and got panned. Replay is ruining the NFL. There's still arguing, still unclarity, still injustice, the only thing different is that the games are an average of 13 minutes longer than they were 15 years ago. I don't even cheer for touchdowns or big plays anymore for fear there's a flag or a review reversal coming. The pace of the game sucks, and that is what used to make football so special.People complain about baseball, but in actuality the average baseball game is 2 hours 52 minutes and the average football game is now 3 hours 13 minutes and rising weekly. And at least in baseball you know you can cheer safely when a homerun is hit.KILL REPLAY NOW.Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

Completely agree. Just as many bad calls but tons of wasted time. I hate to break the news, but it is also a game and should be enjoyable to watch firstly.

 

[ldizzle]

Ive skimmed through this and i think it was peter king or someone else (i cant recall), but what if the texans threw the challenge flag to screw the lions from bieng able to challenge the call? Maybe we see that this weekend where the scoring team scores a close td then throws the challenge flag, then what?

The refs would impose a 15 yard penalty but would NOT stop the play from being reviewed. Here's the text from the NFL rules:"The Replay Official cannot initiate a review of any ruling against a team that commits a foul that delays the next snap."

So what about the other scenario? Where the scoring team throws the flag on purpose so they keep the td, like if it was close and they dont wanna risk it

 

[pantagrapher]

Ive skimmed through this and i think it was peter king or someone else (i cant recall), but what if the texans threw the challenge flag to screw the lions from bieng able to challenge the call? Maybe we see that this weekend where the scoring team scores a close td then throws the challenge flag, then what?

The refs would impose a 15 yard penalty but would NOT stop the play from being reviewed. Here's the text from the NFL rules:"The Replay Official cannot initiate a review of any ruling against a team that commits a foul that delays the next snap."

So what about the other scenario? Where the scoring team throws the flag on purpose so they keep the td, like if it was close and they dont wanna risk it

As has been explained about five times in this thread, that's not the way the rule works. The team that threw the red flag can't benefit. A team can't throw a flag to prevent a review.

 

[renesauz]

"Schartz should know the rule"...but the refs, whose entire job is enforcing the rules, got it wrong, and get it wrong all the time. So how much should Schwartz and the Lions really be penalized?

Got what wrong? Missed the call yes they did.... Miss interpreted the fact that the flag thrown for the illegal challenge didn't delay the game? That is the ruling and causes the booth review not to be allowed after any penalty that CAN and I repeat CAN cause a delay in the snap.It does not HAVE to delay the snap just needs to POSSIBLY POTENTIALLY delay the snap.

Possibly potentially? The only thing worse than bureaucrats rewriting the simplicity of sports in triplicate are "sports fans" who speak the same language.

Only thing worse than a homer is someone who can't understand what the rule is...I am trying to hammer home the fact that it could delay the snap. People keep arguing that it didnt delay the snap, well it doesnt have to, it just needs the possibility of delaying it.

Also, basically your trying to say in a round about way I am stupid for understanding what the rule is. Its like saying a lawyer is horrible just because he understands the law. If you have a real career don't you know your contract inside and out, even though some of the stuff in it is ridiculous sometimes? I didnt make up my non-compete clause but I know everything I can take with me and what jobs I can get if I choose to leave my current position.

You need to understand the rules you dont have to agree with all of them. Also the NFL rules are EXTREMELY straight forward and easy to learn as they could have made a rule around this challenge flag thrown different for every circumstance from 2:00, to TD, to INT...

It doesn't say possibly delay or potentially delay...it says DELAY period. How can the coach with his red flag delay a snap when said snap couldn't occur without the AUTOMATIC review anyway? They called the penalty quicker than they could have gotten word from the pressbox that it needed review. Sorry, the rule, as quoted above, is about as clear as mud in this situation.Bad rule....confusing application. End of story.

 

[Ilov80s]

I tried to make this argument last week and got panned. Replay is ruining the NFL. There's still arguing, still unclarity, still injustice, the only thing different is that the games are an average of 13 minutes longer than they were 15 years ago. I don't even cheer for touchdowns or big plays anymore for fear there's a flag or a review reversal coming. The pace of the game sucks, and that is what used to make football so special.People complain about baseball, but in actuality the average baseball game is 2 hours 52 minutes and the average football game is now 3 hours 13 minutes and rising weekly. And at least in baseball you know you can cheer safely when a homerun is hit.KILL REPLAY NOW.Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

Completely agree. Just as many bad calls but tons of wasted time. I hate to break the news, but it is also a game and should be enjoyable to watch firstly.

I agree, but more replays=more commercials, so I expect more replays not less in the future.