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Kamala Harris' border crisis. Biden put her in charge. (1 Viewer)

timschochet said:
Yes. His solution to these problems was to give amnesty to those who were here without documents. And his last speech before leaving office was filled with praise for those who came here without documents. 
And what else?   I seem to remember  there was something  else that Reagan agreed to...

Sounds like.....border security.

He came to regret his solution.    So which Reagan are we talking about.   The one who did the deal.    Or the one who changed his mind after facts presented themselves.

For clarification.    I think Reagan liked workers coming.   But he was promised border security.    Which he never got.

 
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And what else?   I seem to remember  there was something  else that Reagan agreed to...

Sounds like.....border security.

He came to regret his solution.    So which Reagan are we talking about.   The one who did the deal.    Or the one who changed his mind after facts presented themselves.

For clarification.    I think Reagan liked workers coming.   But he was promised border security.    Which he never got.
Yeah, lots of liberals in here playing fast and loose with the facts about Reagan.

 
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The Commish said:
Wrong thread for you then.  I haven't found much other than "sides" bickering in this thread.  No one wants to talk about the solutions because, well, I guess doing so doesn't provide much to bicker over.  It's a rather simple approach that is required.  But it takes a ton of neglected resources and new resources to be addressed.
You ignore the solution because it would go against your new king.  

Secure.  The.  Border.  

You have to stop illegal immigration or at least drastically slow the flow to a trickle.  Unfortunately, the dems would rather have votes over law and order.  

 
You ignore the solution because it would go against your new king.  

Secure.  The.  Border.  

You have to stop illegal immigration or at least drastically slow the flow to a trickle.  Unfortunately, the dems would rather have votes over law and order.  
That isnt a solution to the underlying problem .

Its a band aid. 

 
There is no solution. It’s never going to end 
Right, which is why the outrage from the side currently not in power does not matter. Set up basic infrastructure then focus time & energy on priorities that may actually be executed. This is a worthwhile subject should solving the problem actually become a priority, but until then the cries are white noise.

 
You ignore the solution because it would go against your new king.  

Secure.  The.  Border.  

You have to stop illegal immigration or at least drastically slow the flow to a trickle.  Unfortunately, the dems would rather have votes over law and order.  
No...I ignore the solution because it doesn't fix anything.  We have 30+ years of evidence to show you that :lmao: .  Our backlog continues to grow and grow and grow and grow.

And for the billionth time, Biden is another President failing miserably on his border test.  Maybe try your talking points on someone else.

 
:lmao:   You literally bickered and called someone's solution dumb not 20 posts ago.  Twice by quoting yourself. 
To be fair, you guys only give me so much to work with :lol:   I tend to meet you guys where you're at.  I'm certainly not perfect and definitely not a miracle worker :shrug:  

 
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I have no idea where or how this ends.  Would it be possible for companies in the us to put a factory or two in Central America to help families earn some money - not that it’s all about money.

or arrange a new trade agreement that incents these other countries to manage their exodus

 
I have no idea where or how this ends.  Would it be possible for companies in the us to put a factory or two in Central America to help families earn some money - not that it’s all about money.

or arrange a new trade agreement that incents these other countries to manage their exodus
ETA:  I want to revise this answer.  Initially I said probably.  I think it's more accurate to say potentially.  For those looking to make a living, it COULD help them.  For those who are looking to escape governments or people trying to kill them, no it's not going to help.  I say it COULD help some because of the local government factor that isn't a guarantee.  The NGOs that our government gives money too or that you and I donate to are far more effective in this area of "incentivizing to stay put"

 
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We're the easiest to breach first-world, stable democratic country in the hemisphere. It's going to have to get draconian, and I don't see how you rectify draconian measures with American values.

It's going to be a different country because we cannot legally take on the generally illiterate teeming masses with our minimum wage and expect to remain a democracy.

We need a serious discussion about the minimum wage in our Western world. It's too high. Perhaps we can colonize Central and South America? Short of that, we're screwed.

The screwed nature of this comes with certain ramifications and attendant effects. The people pouring over our border becomes an invasion at some point, a nearly-akin-to-childhood game of high-stakes tag with the central government of the federal and state governments, and must be treated as such. There is no option, as tim and the left declare, for pure open borders. There can't be if we are to remain a stable republic. Can't have it.

 
We're the easiest to breach first-world, stable democratic country in the hemisphere. It's going to have to get draconian, and I don't see how you rectify draconian measures with American values.

It's going to be a different country because we cannot legally take on the generally illiterate teeming masses with our minimum wage and expect to remain a democracy.

We need a serious discussion about the minimum wage in our Western world. It's too high. Perhaps we can colonize Central and South America? Short of that, we're screwed.

The screwed nature of this comes with certain ramifications and attendant effects. The people pouring over our border becomes an invasion at some point, a nearly-akin-to-childhood game of high-stakes tag with the central government of the federal and state governments, and must be treated as such. There is no option, as tim and the left declare, for pure open borders. There can't be if we are to remain a stable republic. Can't have it.
Yes we can. Not pure open borders. Never advocated that. But we have plenty of room for far more immigration. It’s not even close to full. And doing so will ensure our republic is more stable not less. 
@rockaction I know you’re a fan of Reason magazine. Look up some of their older writers on this subject: Tibor Machan, Doug Bandow. They had it right. 

 
Yes we can. Not pure open borders. Never advocated that. But we have plenty of room for far more immigration. It’s not even close to full. And doing so will ensure our republic is more stable not less. 
@rockaction I know you’re a fan of Reason magazine. Look up some of their older writers on this subject: Tibor Machan, Doug Bandow. They had it right. 
Oh no, Reason still feels that way. Still very pro-immigrant and with little respect for secure borders. But there's a root cause there in their reporting/writing. They don't like nation-states. The Randians like Machan never liked borders because their ideal governance is based on a universal theory that guys like Machan think everyone should adopt, namely, Objectivism or some permutation of Randian or anarcho-capitalist Rothbardian thought. I'm reasonably (heh) familiar with Reason's history, though I'm not as good with it as NR's.

I'm a little less sanguine than they are about our ability to assimilate in our era of identity politics the left has inundated us with. Plus, the new(er) intensive studies about homogeneity and governance gives me great pause. Reason is wrong about things, time to time, like any other orthodoxy. Immigration might be one of those issues.

 
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Kamala still doing nothing?   head in the sand approach.
She is calling blue state governors asking them to take kids.  Our governor, Lamont, got caught flat footed in his Thursday press conference as a reporter asked him how many migrant kids were in state already and how many more coming as it was not previously disclosed.  He admitted to receiving a call from Harris asking us to house them.  One of the sites is a vacant/closed juvenile detention center (prison) in Middletown, ct

 
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No...I ignore the solution because it doesn't fix anything.  We have 30+ years of evidence to show you that :lmao: .  Our backlog continues to grow and grow and grow and grow.

And for the billionth time, Biden is another President failing miserably on his border test.  Maybe try your talking points on someone else.
I missed the period in time when the border was secure and we still had this problem.  When was that again?  

 
That isnt a solution to the underlying problem .

Its a band aid. 
It’s step 1.  There is no step 2 until we complete step 1.  That is how procedure works.  The border problem isn’t new and it’s not a D or R thing.  It is a problem for the US and we need our government to serve its people and address the problem.   

Illegal immigrants are not US citizens and must be handled that way, even if it is unpleasant.  The door needs closed and the illegals must be turned away.  If they are stuck in Mexico, maybe Mexico will do a better job of securing their borders too and we will have less at our borders.  

 
She is calling blue state governors asking them to take kids.  Our governor, Lamont, got caught flat footed in his Thursday press conference as a reporter asked him how many migrant kids were in state already and how many more coming as it was not previously disclosed.  He admitted to receiving a call from Harris asking us to house them.  One of the sites is a vacant/closed juvenile detention center (prison) in Middletown, ct
Jesus. We know why there's a vacant/closed juvy detention center in Middletown, don't we? The uber liberals that live there want nothing to do with the results and attendant problems that go along with the crime that their jurisdiction so permits on a daily basis. Absolute head in the sand, the Middletown people. That's why you have the state's massive homeless problem in Middletown, of all places. They won't arrest them for crimes to property, which they commit on a daily basis. Heavy drug trade in Middletown, too. All quiet. But starting to get worse.

Before anyone objects to this, my uber liberal friend who lives in Middletown and is in keeping with the politics there insists that we shouldn't have any prisons and used to sign off his email to that effect. They literally do not believe in incarceration for crimes. Probably why the detention center sits bereft of a population, and that's probably due to the huge confluence of two factors that are contradictory but lead to the same result: The NIMBYs at Wesleyan (the University where Middletown sits) and the pull they have with the state government and the locals who really don't believe in punishment for crimes committed. Hence no prisoners, no juvy, no nothing there. But immigrants. Let's see how they respond to that.

 
Jesus. We know why there's a vacant/closed juvy detention center in Middletown, don't we? The uber liberals that live there want nothing to do with the results and attendant problems that go along with the crime that their jurisdiction so permits on a daily basis. Absolute head in the sand, the Middletown people. That's why you have the state's massive homeless problem in Middletown, of all places. They won't arrest them for crimes to property, which they commit on a daily basis. Heavy drug trade in Middletown, too. All quiet. But starting to get worse.

Before anyone objects to this, my uber liberal friend who lives in Middletown and is in keeping with the politics there insists that we shouldn't have any prisons and used to sign off his email to that effect. They literally do not believe in incarceration for crimes. Probably why the detention center sits bereft of a population, and that's probably due to the huge confluence of two factors that are contradictory but lead to the same result: The NIMBYs at Wesleyan (the University where Middletown sits) and the pull they have with the state government and the locals who really don't believe in punishment for crimes committed. Hence no prisoners, no juvy, no nothing there. But immigrants. Let's see how they respond to that.
I’ll add to the fun.  The state proposed using it for the homeless during covid but it was deemed uninhabitable.

 
It’s step 1.  There is no step 2 until we complete step 1.  That is how procedure works.  The border problem isn’t new and it’s not a D or R thing.  It is a problem for the US and we need our government to serve its people and address the problem.   

Illegal immigrants are not US citizens and must be handled that way, even if it is unpleasant.  The door needs closed and the illegals must be turned away.  If they are stuck in Mexico, maybe Mexico will do a better job of securing their borders too and we will have less at our borders.  
How is it a step?  Do you think the reasons they try coming here are going away?  Does leaving unaccompanied kids being carted here in Mexico solve a problem?

Sorry, but IMO “out of sight and out of mind” is not a solution.

 
How is it a step?  Do you think the reasons they try coming here are going away?  Does leaving unaccompanied kids being carted here in Mexico solve a problem?

Sorry, but IMO “out of sight and out of mind” is not a solution.
How is it a step?  It is because if we make it known that we are welcoming illegal immigrants as we have in the Biden administration, then a lot more illegal immigrants will flood the borders.  

Will the reasons go away?  No.  What is your point?  Would you like us to go take over all of Central America to start?  Because that is the only way the reasons might eventually go away.  

Does leaving unaccompanied kids solve a problem?  No, see the first point.  The problem is that people think they can leave those kids and, here you are, seemingly supporting it.  

 
Jesus. We know why there's a vacant/closed juvy detention center in Middletown, don't we? The uber liberals that live there want nothing to do with the results and attendant problems that go along with the crime that their jurisdiction so permits on a daily basis. Absolute head in the sand, the Middletown people. That's why you have the state's massive homeless problem in Middletown, of all places. They won't arrest them for crimes to property, which they commit on a daily basis. Heavy drug trade in Middletown, too. All quiet. But starting to get worse.

Before anyone objects to this, my uber liberal friend who lives in Middletown and is in keeping with the politics there insists that we shouldn't have any prisons and used to sign off his email to that effect. They literally do not believe in incarceration for crimes. Probably why the detention center sits bereft of a population, and that's probably due to the huge confluence of two factors that are contradictory but lead to the same result: The NIMBYs at Wesleyan (the University where Middletown sits) and the pull they have with the state government and the locals who really don't believe in punishment for crimes committed. Hence no prisoners, no juvy, no nothing there. But immigrants. Let's see how they respond to that.
I have a liberal friend who lives in CT too. I called her, she said yes they still have jails there. I was relieved.

 
Jesus. We know why there's a vacant/closed juvy detention center in Middletown, don't we? The uber liberals that live there want nothing to do with the results and attendant problems that go along with the crime that their jurisdiction so permits on a daily basis. Absolute head in the sand, the Middletown people. That's why you have the state's massive homeless problem in Middletown, of all places. They won't arrest them for crimes to property, which they commit on a daily basis. Heavy drug trade in Middletown, too. All quiet. But starting to get worse.

Before anyone objects to this, my uber liberal friend who lives in Middletown and is in keeping with the politics there insists that we shouldn't have any prisons and used to sign off his email to that effect. They literally do not believe in incarceration for crimes. Probably why the detention center sits bereft of a population, and that's probably due to the huge confluence of two factors that are contradictory but lead to the same result: The NIMBYs at Wesleyan (the University where Middletown sits) and the pull they have with the state government and the locals who really don't believe in punishment for crimes committed. Hence no prisoners, no juvy, no nothing there. But immigrants. Let's see how they respond to that.
Here's an article about Middletown's declining homelessness. 

https://www.middletownpress.com/middletown/article/Homelessness-in-Middlesex-County-By-the-numbers-13595894.php

 
That's a nice link about declining homelessness. It does not address that Middletown has long been notorious for lax laws about homelessness, vagrancy, loitering, drinking in public, and drugging in public. A quick search found that the I-91 corridor towns of Enfield, New Britain, Hartford, and Manchester and others had strict "anti-homeless" laws that forced migration to other more friendly areas, such as Middletown. That they've addressed it is a positive. 

Anybody who lives there and goes out on Main Street can tell you what the problem was like. That Lamont has apparently signed homeless bills as of 2016 probably helped the problem, so that could well be the case. As of 2014, they were still roaming the streets in packs.

They're also "partnering" with hotels in the area, which I presume to mean that they're paying for shelter for the homeless during the winter, especially in COVID times.

Doesn't really change the Middletown had a homeless problem due to its laxity in legislation towards behaviors otherwise considered criminal in other areas.

 
I have a liberal friend who lives in CT too. I called her, she said yes they still have jails there. I was relieved.
I lived in CT until I was an adult and then from the ages of 28-43, which means besides the last four years. They indeed have jails in CT.

Thanks for the view from your friend and the view from PA.

 
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How is it a step?  It is because if we make it known that we are welcoming illegal immigrants as we have in the Biden administration, then a lot more illegal immigrants will flood the borders.  

Will the reasons go away?  No.  What is your point?  Would you like us to go take over all of Central America to start?  Because that is the only way the reasons might eventually go away.  

Does leaving unaccompanied kids solve a problem?  No, see the first point.  The problem is that people think they can leave those kids and, here you are, seemingly supporting it.  
I have stated Biden has screwed this ip.

Even so, we have seen surges before...supposedly after this first step.  It isn’t a solution.  Its pushing it off hoping it goes away.  What we have seen over many years now that the problem doesn’t just go away.

Im supporting what?

 
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Harris:  The current border crisis is due to climate change in the northern triangle.

She had a mask on, so it isn't clear if she said this with a straight face. Even for her it must have been hard to accomplish that.

 
Harris:  The current border crisis is due to climate change in the northern triangle.

She had a mask on, so it isn't clear if she said this with a straight face. Even for her it must have been hard to accomplish that.
Is there a quote or context?  Was this a nod to Honduras being completely annihilated by two major hurricanes in a two week period last year?  That was brutal for them.  

 
Is there a quote or context?  Was this a nod to Honduras being completely annihilated by two major hurricanes in a two week period last year?  That was brutal for them.  
That's what I thought and it's been posted a couple times that this + COVID are reasons we should have expected a surge at the border.  

 
That's what I thought and it's been posted a couple times that this + COVID are reasons we should have expected a surge at the border.  
Me and a few people I know from this area were down there in Dec/Jan as part of a literacy program which turned into a humanitarian effort once we got there.  It was absolutely brutal.  

 
Harris:  The current border crisis is due to climate change in the northern triangle.

She had a mask on, so it isn't clear if she said this with a straight face. Even for her it must have been hard to accomplish that.
Her point - not that you care - is drought has destroyed farming and food availability causing people to flee.

i don’t  know enough about the climate there - but don’t know she is incorrect either.

 
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I think we might want to put a manufacturing plant somewhere in that area and leverage local support in controlling the exodus.

 
Her point - not that you care - is drought has destroyed farming and food availability causing people to flee.

i don’t  know enough about the climate there - but don’t know she is incorrect either.
But she is blaming it on a present effect of anthropomorphic global climate change.  This is completely blowing past the rain/drought history in the region.  There have been severe droughts there (Figure 4) over time and there is evidence of devastative droughts that helped bring down the Mayans, etc.  Blithely blaming this on current climate is incredibly disingenuous.

 
But she is blaming it on a present effect of anthropomorphic global climate change.  This is completely blowing past the rain/drought history in the region.  There have been severe droughts there (Figure 4) over time and there is evidence of devastative droughts that helped bring down the Mayans, etc.  Blithely blaming this on current climate is incredibly disingenuous.
I don't think blaming it on drought is disingenuous.  How it ties to climate change is different - I appreciate you linked some data - but it could be far beyond the number of droughts - could be the duration or compounded impact or recent frequency.  

 
I don't think blaming it on drought is disingenuous.  How it ties to climate change is different - I appreciate you linked some data - but it could be far beyond the number of droughts - could be the duration or compounded impact or recent frequency.  
I think the point is that everything is attributed to climate change and that "action is needed".  Rain - climate change.  Drought - climate change.  Hurricanes - climate change.  Volcanoes - climate change.  A hysterical list.  Harris, let's face it, is a willow tree - she has no need or desire of intellectual honesty; she'll blow in whatever direction the winds are going.  Her blaming a drought in Central America on climate change is par for the course.  The data shows that there were much more severe droughts in the 1700s and that droughts are actually nothing unusual in that area.

Not everything can be blamed on climate change.  This drought is nothing out of the ordinary.  But, if there is anything that we know these days it's that literally anything can be blamed on either climate change or racism.  And so it goes.

 
Her point - not that you care - is drought has destroyed farming and food availability causing people to flee.

i don’t  know enough about the climate there - but don’t know she is incorrect either.
Everything I've read seems to point to the two major hurricanes that hit back to back in a two week period, but it's true that the drought down there is brutal.  You name it, they are struggling at the moment.

 
Everything I've read seems to point to the two major hurricanes that hit back to back in a two week period, but it's true that the drought down there is brutal.  You name it, they are struggling at the moment.
Everything I read was people were fleeing the triangle due to drug gangs and better economic opportunities..  Are there polls or links you can provide the support the above?  

 
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Everything I read was people were fleeing the triangle due to drug gangs and better economic opportunities..  Are there polls or links you can provide the support the above?  
You'd have to interview them to find out the why....it's a pretty strong coincidence that the numbers increased after those events, but unless there's interviews, I see the causation/correlation problem.  And it's not either/or...it's both because the drug and economic issues are legit too...that is apparent the moment you step foot on the ground down there.

 
You'd have to interview them to find out the why....it's a pretty strong coincidence that the numbers increased after those events, but unless there's interviews, I see the causation/correlation problem.  And it's not either/or...it's both because the drug and economic issues are legit too...that is apparent the moment you step foot on the ground down there.
Doesn’t border patrol perform interviews with the immigrants asking them why they are coming here?  Believe the data is there but could be wrong. I think it’s may play a part but honestly believe it’s the administration deflecting blame for an ill time policy change (covid) with no plans or preparation for an expected increase. 

 

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