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Kaz traded to the Angels (1 Viewer)

Capella

Capella

Footballguy
The Rays will get pitcher Alexander Torres and third baseman Matthew Sweeney in return in the deal, which is expected to be announced later today.
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Odd timing.
 
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I think Davis can be at least as good, if not better than Kaz...but this does seem to have a waving the white flag element to it, at least to the team.

Going to be interesting to see how they respond.

 
Or maybe not...

ANAHEIM -- A proposed trade that would have sent Rays left-hander Scott Kazmir to the Angels for a pair of prospects has fallen through. Multiple reports had the Angels set to acquire Kazmir in a move aimed to bolster their beleaguered starting rotation. The Rays were to get pitcher Alexander Torres and third baseman Matthew Sweeney in return. Kazmir is 8-7 this season with a 5.92 ERA in 20 starts for the Rays.
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I feel like Posty with all of these replies.
 
Apparently back on.

Rays SP depth taking a bit hit in the past year, with Ejax and Kaz traded, Sonny now a corpse, and Jake McGee struggling to return from Tommy John. Still have Davis and Hellickson, but no longer overflowing like it was.

 
And Kaz was one of my favorite Rays (only thing to root for, for 2-3 years) but this was pretty necessary. He's not a $10M/year pitcher. Especially not for a team on a budget.

 
jobarules said:
Capella said:
jobarules said:
Only 3.5 GB of the WC. Thats a real slap in the face to the TB fans :excited:
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He hasn't really been good at all.Still, it's a payroll thing. They owe him a ton next year, and can put that money towards locking up CC.
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Then why do the Angels want him? And hes been pretty damn good recently
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I don't think we'll ever see the Kaz from '07. He's lost velocity.Maybe he can learn to pitch, but the odds of him either not or getting hurt are pretty high.

 
I'd roll the dice with Kaz for 10M. Pretty sure most of the league would. Just sad to see the Rays throw in the towel before September, especially after last year's run.

 
amazing. if the pirates had done something like this, they'd be getting ripped from here to hawaii.

i was surprised to learn kazmir was actually signed for next year.

and, finless, apparently not 'most of the league' would think he's worth $10M next year if they let him slip through the waiver process to the angels. the fact that 20-plus teams passed on a waiver claim has to tell you something.

 
eagles2007 said:
amazing. if the pirates had done something like this, they'd be getting ripped from here to hawaii. i was surprised to learn kazmir was actually signed for next year. and, finless, apparently not 'most of the league' would think he's worth $10M next year if they let him slip through the waiver process to the angels. the fact that 20-plus teams passed on a waiver claim has to tell you something.
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10M is just his salary. You have to give something up to pay him that salary. Cappy said he didn't think he was worth 10M. If he was a FA at the end of this season he'd be signed in a heartbeat at that price.
 
This was a necessary move by the Devil Rays, and I am surprised they got someone to take Kazmir's salary. Great pitcher when healthy, that salary is just to much of a risk for a small market team like the Rays. Gives the Rays salary flexibility now to sign some of it's young talent.

But this once again shows whats wrong with baseball. If you are the Yankees or Red Sox, you can just keep Kazmir on your roster, 10 million is nothing. If he gets healthy, great, if not, they can just sign another 10 million dollar pitcher. Teams like the Rays, Pirates . . . not so much.

 
The move surprised me at first, but I can understand it. With Davis about ready to go, they needed to make room and Kaz was the logical choice given his shakiness and salary.

Rays got good mileage out of Kazmir, and Mets fans don't have to cringe when they see Kaz in a Rays uniform anymore. :victorzambrano:

 
Capella said:
Finless said:
I'd roll the dice with Kaz for 10M. Pretty sure most of the league would.
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25 teams on waivers say hi.
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:mellow: :P Some Kazmir salary info

Kazmir isn't currently the same pitcher he was two years ago, and he's owed $8 million next year, $12 million in 2001 and either $13.5 million or a $2.5 million in 2012.
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$22.5M guaranteed for two years? Not terrible, but with Sonnanstine, Davis, and Jeremy Hellickson in the minors the Rays are more than covered. As mentioned above, this adds more available money to the Crawford pot.Rays even got a couple of ok prospects for him.

 
I respect Keith Law's opinion more than anybody's when it comes to this stuff, and he thinks this is a bonanza for the Rays. He dumped on Kaz "he stopped developing 2 or 3 years ago; has settled into an inefficient starter".

In exchange, the Rays got more than Atlanta got last year for the rental of Mark Teixeira.
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He then glows about Torres and Sweeney.
And on top of that, the Rays are set to get a third player who is more than just a throw-in, making this a tremendous return for a pitcher whose value had really nose-dived over the past 10 months.
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Capella said:
I respect Keith Law's opinion more than anybody's when it comes to this stuff, and he thinks this is a bonanza for the Rays. He dumped on Kaz "he stopped developing 2 or 3 years ago; has settled into an inefficient starter".

In exchange, the Rays got more than Atlanta got last year for the rental of Mark Teixeira.
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He then glows about Torres and Sweeney.
And on top of that, the Rays are set to get a third player who is more than just a throw-in, making this a tremendous return for a pitcher whose value had really nose-dived over the past 10 months.
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Im not bemoaning the trade. If the prospects the Rays got are that good then yes its a heck of a trade. Also Im not bemoaning the fact they dumped $10m on a pitcher who even when he is healthy is a 5-6 inning pitcher.All Im saying is I feel as if the Rays just threw the towel on the season down only 3.5 games. I certainly dont think they are better the rest of this year without Kazmir.
 
jobarules said:
I certainly dont think they are better the rest of this year without Kazmir.
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I don't think there is a drop between the current version of Kazmir and say, Wade Davis.The Rays are probably going to end up as an 88-90 win team that is going to fall a few games short of the wild-card. With or without Kaz.
 
jobarules said:
Capella said:
I respect Keith Law's opinion more than anybody's when it comes to this stuff, and he thinks this is a bonanza for the Rays. He dumped on Kaz "he stopped developing 2 or 3 years ago; has settled into an inefficient starter".

In exchange, the Rays got more than Atlanta got last year for the rental of Mark Teixeira.
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He then glows about Torres and Sweeney.
And on top of that, the Rays are set to get a third player who is more than just a throw-in, making this a tremendous return for a pitcher whose value had really nose-dived over the past 10 months.
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Im not bemoaning the trade. If the prospects the Rays got are that good then yes its a heck of a trade. Also Im not bemoaning the fact they dumped $10m on a pitcher who even when he is healthy is a 5-6 inning pitcher.All Im saying is I feel as if the Rays just threw the towel on the season down only 3.5 games. I certainly dont think they are better the rest of this year without Kazmir.
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What has Kazmir done this season to make you think they the Rays are "throwing in the towel". And I think the fact that they benched BJ Upton is very indicative that they have not thrown in the towel at all.
 
Capella said:
Statorama said:
Capella said:
Finless said:
I'd roll the dice with Kaz for 10M. Pretty sure most of the league would.
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25 teams on waivers say hi.
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:lmao: :lmao:
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Actually, I was wrong. It was 29 teams. Everybody passed on him once before the Angels decided to take the leap.Fin "ouch" :goodposting:
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Not sure I'll ever understand the "need" to own someone... but Fin's statement isn't that far off. At this point in the season, the acquisition wouldn't make sense to the majority of teams because of the economics. Different demand in the off season where hope springs eternal.Curious what the Rays know about Kazmir; essentially to give him up (25 years old?) at this stage of the season. Are we talking $2 million to finish the season? He still has fared well against both New York and Boston.
 
the problem everyone is missing is that just because a team claimed him, that doesn't mean they were going to get him. so 25-plus teams decided he wasn't even worth making the claim. more teams should have claimed him. i'm not saying they should have met the price to trade for him, but hte rays should consider themselves very lucky that they found a trading partner. heck, every team in the playoff chase in the AL that allowed kazmir to get claimed by the angels should send up enough red flags about the guy.

 
DropKick said:
At this point in the season, the acquisition wouldn't make sense to the majority of teams because of the economics. Different demand in the off season where hope springs eternal.
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That's pretty silly. If teams thought he was worth the effort and could help lead to a title in 2010-12, then $10M surely is a bargain. But, there's very few people left thinking that.
Curious what the Rays know about Kazmir; essentially to give him up (25 years old?) at this stage of the season. Are we talking $2 million to finish the season? He still has fared well against both New York and Boston.
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Well, his fastball is about 6 MPH slower, his slider has very little bite left and he has essentially lost the stuff that made him so good despite shaky command. You take the stuff away from a stuff pitcher with no command = ;)Whether he can get it back or not is left to be seen. But for a franchise like the Rays, with a budget and three guys in AAA who can contribute immediately, it makes no sense to take the chance.
 
Capella said:
DropKick said:
At this point in the season, the acquisition wouldn't make sense to the majority of teams because of the economics. Different demand in the off season where hope springs eternal.
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That's pretty silly. If teams thought he was worth the effort and could help lead to a title in 2010-12, then $10M surely is a bargain. But, there's very few people left thinking that.
Curious what the Rays know about Kazmir; essentially to give him up (25 years old?) at this stage of the season. Are we talking $2 million to finish the season? He still has fared well against both New York and Boston.
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Well, his fastball is about 6 MPH slower, his slider has very little bite left and he has essentially lost the stuff that made him so good despite shaky command. You take the stuff away from a stuff pitcher with no command = :rolleyes:Whether he can get it back or not is left to be seen. But for a franchise like the Rays, with a budget and three guys in AAA who can contribute immediately, it makes no sense to take the chance.
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That's the thing about Cap. He sees things even the scouts miss. Good to have him on the boards.
 
Nice move by the Rays, curious to see who the PTBNL is. Sweeney's a player and Torres is a younger version of Kaz...who is over rated himself. Yea, he strikes a bunch of guys out but he's been on again off again hurt, has no idea where his pitches are going, and is due so much $ they wouldn't be able to re-sign Crawford if they didn't deal Kaz.

 
MAC_32 said:
Nice move by the Rays, curious to see who the PTBNL is. Sweeney's a player and Torres is a younger version of Kaz...who is over rated himself. Yea, he strikes a bunch of guys out but he's been on again off again hurt, has no idea where his pitches are going, and is due so much $ they wouldn't be able to re-sign Crawford if they didn't deal Kaz.
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I understand this but If I'm a GM I jump at Kaz for $10M.
 
Finless said:
MAC_32 said:
Nice move by the Rays, curious to see who the PTBNL is. Sweeney's a player and Torres is a younger version of Kaz...who is over rated himself. Yea, he strikes a bunch of guys out but he's been on again off again hurt, has no idea where his pitches are going, and is due so much $ they wouldn't be able to re-sign Crawford if they didn't deal Kaz.
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I understand this but If I'm a GM I jump at Kaz for $10M.
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Maybe that's why your not a GM...
 
Angels must really think this is their year to push it. Giving up one really good prospect, two pretty good prospects and then taking on 20M for Kaz seems nuts to me.

Friedman = good at stuff.

 
Capella said:
Angels must really think this is their year to push it. Giving up one really good prospect, two pretty good prospects and then taking on 20M for Kaz seems nuts to me. Friedman = good at stuff.
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I think they might be hoping Kazmir can regain his touch next season, as I believe Lackey is a free agent after this season. I think Rodriguez was expendable to them because they have quite a bit of MI depth at the major league level. I think Rodriguez is a AAAA player, he swings for the fences every pitch, which might work in AAA but he will get exposed in the majors.It still was the smart deal for the Rays. Too much risk in keeping Kazmir at that salary.
 
Neyer

Usually the PTBNL seems almost an afterthought. Not this time, though. A few days ago the Rays traded Scott Kazmir to the Angels and picked up a couple of middling prospects plus the proverbial "player to be named later." Today he was named, and what a player he is: Sean Rodriguez, 24, who has posted some some gaudy numbers for Triple-A Salt Lake -- 29 homers and .299/.398/.616 line. Rodriguez is average as a second baseman but could play all over the diamond. He's already played 71 big league games, and didn't qualify for John Sickels Top 20's last year, but was given a B grade the year before. I'd say his surplus value is about $5M. --snip--The Rays free themselves of some much needed payroll and got about the maximum return possible. If Kazmir returns to form, then it'll look good for both sides. I tend to believe that vintage Kazmir won't be coming back, which is why this is quite the coup for the Rays.Rodriguez hasn't played well in the majors, which is why the Angels were so willing to trade him. But it's worth noting that as well as he's played with Salt Lake this season, he was even better last season, making for a .301/.398/.626 career Triple-A line. Really, the question isn't whether or not Rodriguez will hit; given a chance, he will. The question is mostly where he'll play, as the Rays are set already at second base with Ben Zobrist. But Zobrist could move back to right field, or Rodriguez could (which would probably make more sense, as Zorilla's a fine defensive second baseman).They key thing to remember about all of this: the Rays traded two months (including this October) and two years and $24 million in salary obligations, and in return they received roughly 18 years and salary obligations likely to run upwards of $10 million (beyond that, no one can say, though if the prospects pan out the figure will be a lot higher than $10 million).Think about it like that -- coldly, calculatedly -- and it's a deal the Rays had to make
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Balco said:
Capella said:
Angels must really think this is their year to push it. Giving up one really good prospect, two pretty good prospects and then taking on 20M for Kaz seems nuts to me. Friedman = good at stuff.
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I think they might be hoping Kazmir can regain his touch next season, as I believe Lackey is a free agent after this season. I think Rodriguez was expendable to them because they have quite a bit of MI depth at the major league level. I think Rodriguez is a AAAA player, he swings for the fences every pitch, which might work in AAA but he will get exposed in the majors.It still was the smart deal for the Rays. Too much risk in keeping Kazmir at that salary.
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I think they were hoping he regained his touch this season. It seems his velocity is back, and since joining the Angels he's allowed 2ER in 13 innings. Going back over his last 10 starts he's allowed more than 3ER twice.
 
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Kaz finishes off the season with a 1.7 ERA with the Angels. They'll need that in the playoffs vs the Sox.

 
Appears this trade will work out OK for the Rays. Torres is getting glowing reviews and Sweeney is mashing. Jury is still out on Rodriguez's ability to hit consistently in the majors, but I like his chances.

Good God has Kaz been awful since 2008. What he was throwing tonight was not major-league stuff.

 
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