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Kevin Kolb (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter sholditch
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ImTheScientist
Footballguy
See Tommy Maddox
Polish Hammer
made of glass
Tommy Maddox did play for the Steelers. However, that was after a respite from the NFL as either an insurance guy or real estate guy. Originally, he was drafted (I think) by Dan Reeves with the hopes he would become the heir apparent to John Elway. Well, Maddox struggled and Elway remained a HOF'er. When Reeves went to coach the NYG, I believe he brought Maddox with him, hoping he could flourish there. He didn't. I believe the guy was trying to say that even though it would appear Kolb is the successor to McNabb, he believes McNabb is talented enough (and Kolb was enough of a reach/perhaps isn't talented enough) that McNabb will stay the starter and Kolb will move on.Then again, I could be wrong...sholditch said:
Polish Hammer
made of glass
Furthermore, as an Eagles fan, I have warmed up to the Kolb pick. Nothing would make me happier than for Donovan to play so lights out that Kolb is an afterthought. That may very well happen. Then again, maybe Donovan has another injury or two and the Eagles front office decides that his salary structure is such that Donovan is too much of a cost risk to maintain on the team. I don't think Donovan would be terribly upset in a year or two to try and lead some other good squad to the Super Bowl. He is a good guy and a very good QB, I just don't think the loyalty to the city of Philadelphia is there. (I won't spend time speculating on why that is or isn't valid.)
As far as Kolb goes, initial reports, which are sparse, have him performing well for a rookie QB. I don't think he'll see much time this year. Even if Donovan gets hurt I think Reid and Co have faith in Feeley carrying the team for now. Until we see more from Kolb (and Donovan) in camp and preseason, it will be hard to assign a value to him.
IF you believe that Donovan's time with the Eagles is nearing an end and IF you believe that as long as Reid is in Philly the passing game will reign supreme, then Kolb holds a reasonable degree of speculative value for a rookie QB, but I wouldn't put it any higher than that.
As far as Kolb goes, initial reports, which are sparse, have him performing well for a rookie QB. I don't think he'll see much time this year. Even if Donovan gets hurt I think Reid and Co have faith in Feeley carrying the team for now. Until we see more from Kolb (and Donovan) in camp and preseason, it will be hard to assign a value to him.
IF you believe that Donovan's time with the Eagles is nearing an end and IF you believe that as long as Reid is in Philly the passing game will reign supreme, then Kolb holds a reasonable degree of speculative value for a rookie QB, but I wouldn't put it any higher than that.
Val Rannous
Footballguy
Kolb was more than a system Quarterback at UH - don't think he's the second coming of David Klingler. He's nicely mobile, very smart, decent arm, and seems to have good leadership skills. I quite liked what I saw in college, but with the caveat of he's only had 1 coach for his entire High School / College career, so it could be interesting to see how he responds to a new situation.
Val
Val
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Don't overvalue Kolb. He doesn't control his own destiny, that's for sure.sholditch said:
flooredyas
Footballguy
As you asked-Dynasty. I took him @ pick #38 in our rookie draft. Foe me, I can keep him on my taxi squad for 2 years if I desire. That's fine by me, as he will not likely have any value this year-even with a McNabb injury. Next year, who knows? So for me it was not a problem, however every league has it's own rules and roster sizes (Mine is 40 man roster/10 taxi). If your's are similiar to mine, draft him and sit tight for a year or two. If they are more restrictive, you may want to look elsewhere.
As to future production, should McNabb indeed reinjure himself or get traded, he appears to be in a great situation down the road. HTH
As to future production, should McNabb indeed reinjure himself or get traded, he appears to be in a great situation down the road. HTH
hephner
Footballguy
I think he may turn out to be one of the best QBs in this class. There were some articles out there from FootballOutsiders.com citing the average success rate of QBs based on their college history, especially in reference to games started and completion percentage. Here's an excerpt from one:
In 1998, the Indianapolis Colts faced one of the most important decisions in franchise history. With the No. 1 overall pick, would they take Manning or Leaf? Peyton proponents argued that he was more mature and accomplished. Leaf backers argued he had the stronger arm and more growth potential. But all the Colts really needed to know was four numbers: Manning started 45 college games, completing 63% of his passes. Leaf started just 24 games, completing 54% of his passes. The future couldn’t be more clear.
It’s true: College statistics really can predict NFL performance. For our 2006 Pro Football Prospectus, we studied 10 years’ worth of drafts and discovered that the greatest indicator of NFL success for QBs taken in the first two rounds is the number of college games they started. Philip Rivers, for one, started 51 games at NC State. Donovan McNabb started 49 college games and Carson Palmer started 45. On the flip side, busts-to-be Joey Harrington (28), Jim Druckenmiller (24), and Akili Smith (19) had relatively little starting experience.
Here's a picture of some of the "highest rated" QB prospects from this year's draft class (I included last year's comp % along with the career # to show most recent performance and identify a trend, plus last year's QB rating since it gives a somewhat "all-around" picture of recent performance.)
J. Russell 29 starts, career 61.9%, last year (LY) 67.8%, 167.0 rating
B. Quinn 46 starts, career 58.0%, LY 61.9%, 146.7 rating
T. Edwards 31 starts, career 56.2%, LY 60.3%, 120.6 rating
K. Kolb 50 starts, career 61.6%, LY 67.6%, 162.7 rating
D. Stanton 29 starts, career 64.2%, LY 61.0%, 124.7 rating
As you can see, Kolb boasts the most experience, and has shown a lot of consistency over that time. Russell has less experience but his completion percentages and last year's rating are superb. Quinn has a good amount of starting experience, but a somewhat lower than average completion percentage, and an average rating for this class. Edwards looks like the biggest risk with low experience, low career completion percention and a low rating last year. And Stanton has somewhat of a mixed bag here too, low starting experience, high completion percentages, but low rating.
I realize this isn't the end all, be all with regard to projecting success of a QB, but there seems to be some good research on it showing some very common themes in these numbers.
In 1998, the Indianapolis Colts faced one of the most important decisions in franchise history. With the No. 1 overall pick, would they take Manning or Leaf? Peyton proponents argued that he was more mature and accomplished. Leaf backers argued he had the stronger arm and more growth potential. But all the Colts really needed to know was four numbers: Manning started 45 college games, completing 63% of his passes. Leaf started just 24 games, completing 54% of his passes. The future couldn’t be more clear.
It’s true: College statistics really can predict NFL performance. For our 2006 Pro Football Prospectus, we studied 10 years’ worth of drafts and discovered that the greatest indicator of NFL success for QBs taken in the first two rounds is the number of college games they started. Philip Rivers, for one, started 51 games at NC State. Donovan McNabb started 49 college games and Carson Palmer started 45. On the flip side, busts-to-be Joey Harrington (28), Jim Druckenmiller (24), and Akili Smith (19) had relatively little starting experience.
Here's a picture of some of the "highest rated" QB prospects from this year's draft class (I included last year's comp % along with the career # to show most recent performance and identify a trend, plus last year's QB rating since it gives a somewhat "all-around" picture of recent performance.)
J. Russell 29 starts, career 61.9%, last year (LY) 67.8%, 167.0 rating
B. Quinn 46 starts, career 58.0%, LY 61.9%, 146.7 rating
T. Edwards 31 starts, career 56.2%, LY 60.3%, 120.6 rating
K. Kolb 50 starts, career 61.6%, LY 67.6%, 162.7 rating
D. Stanton 29 starts, career 64.2%, LY 61.0%, 124.7 rating
As you can see, Kolb boasts the most experience, and has shown a lot of consistency over that time. Russell has less experience but his completion percentages and last year's rating are superb. Quinn has a good amount of starting experience, but a somewhat lower than average completion percentage, and an average rating for this class. Edwards looks like the biggest risk with low experience, low career completion percention and a low rating last year. And Stanton has somewhat of a mixed bag here too, low starting experience, high completion percentages, but low rating.
I realize this isn't the end all, be all with regard to projecting success of a QB, but there seems to be some good research on it showing some very common themes in these numbers.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
McNabb is in his prime.....I know he has had some injuries, but there is NO WAY Kolb replaces him and NO WAY McNabb gets traded
Jason Wood
Zoo York
I think this is much simpler than people want to believe. If McNabb stays healthy, he will remain in Philly for years to come and Kolb will quietly play out his contract and try to land elsewhere with a shot. If McNabb gets hurt again, the Eagles will put plans in motion to start a new era.McNabb is in his prime.....I know he has had some injuries, but there is NO WAY Kolb replaces him and NO WAY McNabb gets traded
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
If that happens it would be a very bad move by them IMO.....as a Seahawks fan I would welcome McNabb to the team.I think this is much simpler than people want to believe. If McNabb stays healthy, he will remain in Philly for years to come and Kolb will quietly play out his contract and try to land elsewhere with a shot. If McNabb gets hurt again, the Eagles will put plans in motion to start a new era.
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Jason Wood
Zoo York
Objectively, why would you want McNabb (presuming he got hurt yet again) when you have a Pro Bowl West Coast passer already in place?If that happens it would be a very bad move by them IMO.....as a Seahawks fan I would welcome McNabb to the team.I think this is much simpler than people want to believe. If McNabb stays healthy, he will remain in Philly for years to come and Kolb will quietly play out his contract and try to land elsewhere with a shot. If McNabb gets hurt again, the Eagles will put plans in motion to start a new era.
See Matt SchaubThe Scientist said:
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Schaub = Productive player in an NFL pro style offenseKolb = Productive player in a gimmicky offense that's rarely produced solid NFL QBs
As an Eagles fan, nothing would make me happier than to see some other squad give us a boatload of draft picks (or a 1st rounder and compensation) for Kolb, but somehow I think he's going to be available for just a BIT less when the time comes.
So if I am reading you correctly, you are predicting Kolb to be a bust?Schaub = Productive player in an NFL pro style offenseKolb = Productive player in a gimmicky offense that's rarely produced solid NFL QBs
As an Eagles fan, nothing would make me happier than to see some other squad give us a boatload of draft picks (or a 1st rounder and compensation) for Kolb, but somehow I think he's going to be available for just a BIT less when the time comes.
Val Rannous
Footballguy
What are you talking about? Kolb is the first QB to come to the NFL from this offense. Houston hasn't run the Run and Shoot for years, if that's what you are thinking. In the four years Kolb was the QB for UH, they were running this weird motion passing offense, mostly from the shotgun, brought to UH by Art Briles. Briles was also the coach at the Texas high school where Kolb played, and as far as I know NOBODY else in college runs this thing. You haven't lived until you've seen the QB go in motion from the shotgun, and then have the center snap the ball at a 45 degree angle to him as he's moving towards the hashmark. It was fun watching DE's break their ankles trying to adjust.Schaub = Productive player in an NFL pro style offenseKolb = Productive player in a gimmicky offense that's rarely produced solid NFL QBs
As an Eagles fan, nothing would make me happier than to see some other squad give us a boatload of draft picks (or a 1st rounder and compensation) for Kolb, but somehow I think he's going to be available for just a BIT less when the time comes.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
1) I don't really like Hasselbeck (just don't)2) In his 6 years here he has only played 16 games two times. (Once benched for Dilfer, and once...took over again for Dilfer a few games into the season)Objectively, why would you want McNabb (presuming he got hurt yet again) when you have a Pro Bowl West Coast passer already in place?If that happens it would be a very bad move by them IMO.....as a Seahawks fan I would welcome McNabb to the team.I think this is much simpler than people want to believe. If McNabb stays healthy, he will remain in Philly for years to come and Kolb will quietly play out his contract and try to land elsewhere with a shot. If McNabb gets hurt again, the Eagles will put plans in motion to start a new era.
3) McNabb is the better QB
4) Hasselbeck plays to the level of his supporting cast where I believe McNabb actually makes his supporting cast better.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
As much as we like to pretend otherwise, there are few if any truly innovative things in football at this point. Players get faster and stronger. But the Xs and Os are recycled over and over again. The Houston offense uses motion and was primarily shotgun driven. These are not new concepts, and there's little historical evidence of primarily shotgun QBs becoming great pros, particularly in a WCO.It's as close to the Jack Pardee run 'n shoot as many of today's "West Coast Offenses" are to Walsh's SF teams. Briles has compared it to Pardee's offense himself at times, saying that in many ways it's similar but that he likes more balance, and uses true tight ends a lot more. But at the end of the day, this is not an offense that has shown the ability to win in the NFL.What are you talking about? Kolb is the first QB to come to the NFL from this offense. Houston hasn't run the Run and Shoot for years, if that's what you are thinking. In the four years Kolb was the QB for UH, they were running this weird motion passing offense, mostly from the shotgun, brought to UH by Art Briles. Briles was also the coach at the Texas high school where Kolb played, and as far as I know NOBODY else in college runs this thing. You haven't lived until you've seen the QB go in motion from the shotgun, and then have the center snap the ball at a 45 degree angle to him as he's moving towards the hashmark. It was fun watching DE's break their ankles trying to adjust.Schaub = Productive player in an NFL pro style offenseKolb = Productive player in a gimmicky offense that's rarely produced solid NFL QBs
As an Eagles fan, nothing would make me happier than to see some other squad give us a boatload of draft picks (or a 1st rounder and compensation) for Kolb, but somehow I think he's going to be available for just a BIT less when the time comes.
I hope Kolb proves me wrong, I really do. If he eventually does start for the Birds, I'll be there every Sunday rooting him on. But color me summarily nonplussed by the selection for now.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
No. Why would I have any basis for predicting how his game will progress at the NFL level? Andy Reid has proven himself to be an excellent evaluator of QB talent that fits HIS system, and his willingness to take Kolb in the high 2nd suggests HE thinks the kid is the goods. But I think the Tommy Maddox analogy will prove far more accurate. Maddox was brought into Denver and the world said it hailed the end of the Elway era within a year or two. And we all know how that ended up.So if I am reading you correctly, you are predicting Kolb to be a bust?Schaub = Productive player in an NFL pro style offenseKolb = Productive player in a gimmicky offense that's rarely produced solid NFL QBs
As an Eagles fan, nothing would make me happier than to see some other squad give us a boatload of draft picks (or a 1st rounder and compensation) for Kolb, but somehow I think he's going to be available for just a BIT less when the time comes.
Today's 24/7 news cycle exacerbates these kinds of situations, but regardless of whether Kolb can succeed in Philly, I'm betting (and hoping) that he never gets the chance to prove it.
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