Knowshon Moreno, RB, Denver Broncos (2 Viewers)

[Tony Reali]

Well I just traded him and my 1.11 pick for the 1.6 pick in a keeper league where I wouldn't have kept him anyway, so I hope he does badly

 

[sbonomo]

Well I just traded him and my 1.11 pick for the 1.6 pick in a keeper league where I wouldn't have kept him anyway, so I hope he does badly

Great analysis here...thanks for your comment

 

[[icon]]

Well I just traded him and my 1.11 pick for the 1.6 pick in a keeper league where I wouldn't have kept him anyway, so I hope he does badly

You're doing it wrong, n00b.

 

[Tony Reali]

Well I just traded him and my 1.11 pick for the 1.6 pick in a keeper league where I wouldn't have kept him anyway, so I hope he does badly

Great analysis here...thanks for your comment

No problem. Thinking of taking Mel Kiper's job

 

[Stinkin Ref]

I would not be surprised to see this be somewhere between

an almost 50/50 split with the hot hand on that given day getting slightly more carries and.....

McGahee winning the primary job and Moreno coming in on 3rd downs and having an occassional series or two to himself....

I think McGahee has some juice left.....and he should get the bulk of the GL love.....

for those reasons I see McGahee as the better value right now big time given their current ADP....as we get closer to the season I think their ADP's will start trending towards each other....still making McGahee the better value unless he is publicly declared the starter...then they will flip flop

McGahee seems like the play at his price and Moreno the avoid at his price, let somebody else deal with him and then if people keep passing make a play for McGahee...

 

[cvnpoka]

mcgahee is getting a lot of camp love. any reason not to project 5050ish split with mcgahee on the gl and moreno getting passes?

 

[zamboni]

Despite his 1st round pedigree, one key thing to remember about Moreno is a holdover from the McDaniel regime. Fox has shown that he's not overly confident in Moreno, to the point of looking at Deangelo and still getting a proven guy he liked in McGahee.

While Fox likes to rotate backs, it seems like it will take a McGahee injury or significant underperformance by Willis to give Moreno the lion's share of carries.

 

[DoubleG]

Well I just traded him and my 1.11 pick for the 1.6 pick in a keeper league where I wouldn't have kept him anyway, so I hope he does badly

You're new, but FYI - wishing bad on players doesn't go over well. If you have info or insight, feel free to post like crazy. If you just jump in to tell us about your team or wish ill on players - go post it on twitter or your facebook page. TIA.FWIW, I think the only reason McGahee is getting the camp love is because he is the new toy (and he's new to they team/system - he NEEDS work to get familiar.) I would guess Moreno will get about 65-75% of the carries and most of the receptions, with McGahee brought in for a breather and occasional goal line/short yardage. I see a split similar to what you'll see in Chicago with Forte/MBIII. Situation is almost identical (although Forte's production has been a little better). In bothe cases you have a young guy, drafted by the team, who has been starting for the past couple years. The team has brought in an older vet with a little more size to take the pounding in short yardage situations and spell him occasionally. I see no reason McGahee is all of the sudden going to start getting 15 carries...or anywhere close. In an "average game" I see Moreno getting 16-20 carries and 4-6 catches, with Mcgahee toting the rock about 6-10 times. I don't see a big jump to Moreno's value (McGahee vulturing TDs will leech that) - but I don't see a big drop off either. Moreno will be a decent RB2, with weeks having borderline RB1 numbers (when he get's in the endzone). Obviously health is a concern - but for both. If either goes down, obviously the value of the other jumps.

 

[zamboni]

I see a split similar to what you'll see in Chicago with Forte/MBIII. Situation is almost identical (although Forte's production has been a little better). In bothe cases you have a young guy, drafted by the team, who has been starting for the past couple years. The team has brought in an older vet with a little more size to take the pounding in short yardage situations and spell him occasionally. I see no reason McGahee is all of the sudden going to start getting 15 carries...or anywhere close.

I think there's a big difference in situations.Forte is a proven commodity in all facets of the game, with Barber brought in only for depth (and to replace the ineffective Chester Taylor). Plus, the coaching staff is intact, so they already know and like what they have in Forte.

Moreno hasn't proven anything over the past few years, and as mentioned, has a new coaching staff that has no existing bias towards Moreno. Based on their quick actions in free agency, seems like it's negative bias. Things can change, of course, but Moreno has a ton to prove before he gets the lion's share of carries.

 

[VaTerp]

FWIW, I think the only reason McGahee is getting the camp love is because he is the new toy (and he's new to they team/system - he NEEDS work to get familiar.) I would guess Moreno will get about 65-75% of the carries and most of the receptions, with McGahee brought in for a breather and occasional goal line/short yardage.

I see a split similar to what you'll see in Chicago with Forte/MBIII. Situation is almost identical (although Forte's production has been a little better). In bothe cases you have a young guy, drafted by the team, who has been starting for the past couple years. The team has brought in an older vet with a little more size to take the pounding in short yardage situations and spell him occasionally. I see no reason McGahee is all of the sudden going to start getting 15 carries...or anywhere close.

In an "average game" I see Moreno getting 16-20 carries and 4-6 catches, with Mcgahee toting the rock about 6-10 times. I don't see a big jump to Moreno's value (McGahee vulturing TDs will leech that) - but I don't see a big drop off either. Moreno will be a decent RB2, with weeks having borderline RB1 numbers (when he get's in the endzone).

Obviously health is a concern - but for both. If either goes down, obviously the value of the other jumps.

The problem with the bolded part is that the Broncos have a new coaching staff/system. So Moreno is JUST as new to them as McGahee. If anything, the fact that they inherited Moreno and went out and signed Willis means that Moreno NEEDS just as much work here.I have never been a Moreno fan dating back to his days at GA. Yes, he was productive there but I just didnt see the explosiveness, suddeness, or other factors needed for him to be anything more than an average NFL RB. He could prove me wrong and put up decent numbers when he was healthy last season but I still just don't see it.

I am not the biggest McGahee fan either but am slowly warming up to the idea that he can put up a decent season in Denver this year. If you look at a 31 year old Buckhalter's production in 2009 he clearly outperformed Moreno in terms of ypc. Moreno is no longer a rookie and again the system and coaching are different but I could see it playing out similarly for Willis in Denver this year.

I likely won't have either on my teams this year but at this point I think McGahee provides the MUCH better value and has an outside shot to equal or outperform Moreno straight up IMO.

 

[Blackjacks]

Despite his 1st round pedigree, one key thing to remember about Moreno is a holdover from the McDaniel regime. Fox has shown that he's not overly confident in Moreno, to the point of looking at Deangelo and still getting a proven guy he liked in McGahee.

While Fox likes to rotate backs, it seems like it will take a McGahee injury or significant underperformance by Willis to give Moreno the lion's share of carries.

While I had this same thought since his drafting Adam Schefter was on ESPN today and he said the GM in Denver said after the NFL draft when they took Moreno that he had never seen a rb that talented since Emmitt Smith.

I believe Schefter on this due to his good ties in Denver.

 

[mcd]

In an "average game" I see Moreno getting 16-20 carries and 4-6 catches, with Mcgahee toting the rock about 6-10 times. I don't see a big jump to Moreno's value (McGahee vulturing TDs will leech that) - but I don't see a big drop off either. Moreno will be a decent RB2, with weeks having borderline RB1 numbers (when he get's in the endzone).

Obviously health is a concern - but for both. If either goes down, obviously the value of the other jumps.

So you think he will have 288 carries & 80 receptions over the season? I think most Moreno owners would be thrilled with 200 carries & 40 receptions.

 

[DoubleG]

In an "average game" I see Moreno getting 16-20 carries and 4-6 catches, with Mcgahee toting the rock about 6-10 times. I don't see a big jump to Moreno's value (McGahee vulturing TDs will leech that) - but I don't see a big drop off either. Moreno will be a decent RB2, with weeks having borderline RB1 numbers (when he get's in the endzone).

Obviously health is a concern - but for both. If either goes down, obviously the value of the other jumps.

So you think he will have 288 carries & 80 receptions over the season? I think most Moreno owners would be thrilled with 200 carries & 40 receptions.

First off, given the fact that I gave a range, 256 carries would be within said range (not necessarily 288). Also, given the fact that he averaged only 14 carries a game last year (which would pencil out to 224 in a season) - I don't think the average Moreno owner would be "thrilled" with a measily 200 carries - especially since he carried 247 times his rookie season. The fact that the coaching staff did not bring a legitimate threat to his playing time (and brought in McGahee fairly late in the process), I think it is fairly conservative to predict 10 more rushes than his rookie season - especially given the health qualifier I laid out in the final sentence.Also, I think the current coaching regime will run the ball more than McDaniels did (Denver was in the bottom 5 in rushing attempts last year). If you presume, as I do, that Moreno is the primary back, those extra 2-3 rushes per game will more than likely be by him. I think 240-270 carries is well within reason. So yes, my average game range still stands - even if you want conservatively put him nearer to the bottom of the range.

 

[Bamac]

John Fox offense.

2 RBs with injury histories.

Get. Them. Both.

 

[VaTerp]

Despite his 1st round pedigree, one key thing to remember about Moreno is a holdover from the McDaniel regime. Fox has shown that he's not overly confident in Moreno, to the point of looking at Deangelo and still getting a proven guy he liked in McGahee.

While Fox likes to rotate backs, it seems like it will take a McGahee injury or significant underperformance by Willis to give Moreno the lion's share of carries.

While I had this same thought since his drafting Adam Schefter was on ESPN today and he said the GM in Denver said after the NFL draft when they took Moreno that he had never seen a rb that talented since Emmitt Smith.

I believe Schefter on this due to his good ties in Denver.

Are you sure that's what Schefter said. I can see if a GM said they believed Moreno "reminded" them of Emmitt but for anyone paid to evaluate football players to say that coming out of college they believe Moreno was more "talented" than Marshall Faulk, Ricky Williams, Ladanian Tomlinson, Adrian Peterson, Ronnie Brown, Cadillac Williams, Reggie Bush, McFadden, or any number of other RBs is just plain outrageous.

 

[Blackjacks]

Despite his 1st round pedigree, one key thing to remember about Moreno is a holdover from the McDaniel regime. Fox has shown that he's not overly confident in Moreno, to the point of looking at Deangelo and still getting a proven guy he liked in McGahee.

While Fox likes to rotate backs, it seems like it will take a McGahee injury or significant underperformance by Willis to give Moreno the lion's share of carries.

While I had this same thought since his drafting Adam Schefter was on ESPN today and he said the GM in Denver said after the NFL draft when they took Moreno that he had never seen a rb that talented since Emmitt Smith.

I believe Schefter on this due to his good ties in Denver.

Are you sure that's what Schefter said. I can see if a GM said they believed Moreno "reminded" them of Emmitt but for anyone paid to evaluate football players to say that coming out of college they believe Moreno was more "talented" than Marshall Faulk, Ricky Williams, Ladanian Tomlinson, Adrian Peterson, Ronnie Brown, Cadillac Williams, Reggie Bush, McFadden, or any number of other RBs is just plain outrageous.

That is exactly what he said. I rewinded it myself and listened to it twice. Word for word

 

[Jestefarean]

This seems like a situation where the team spoke loudly to us with what they did, or more clearly what they didn't do.  They went after DeAngelo hard, telling us they like DeAngelo more then Knowshon.  They didn't go after Bradshaw, Snelling, Benson, or McClain.  Further, they didn't pay for restricted guys like Tolbert, Bush, or the Law Firm.  They didn't draft anyone.  I'll take all of that as a vote of confidence from the franchise.  They spoke clearly with their money that they felt Knowshon was going to be enough with a complimentary back.  (Mcgahee). If they thought Knowshon wasn't going to be able to do it they would have pushed harder for one of the guys above to go with McGahee.  Now, number of carries will be up in the air, but McGahee  hasn't been "amazing" for his career. He's talented, but a 4.0 yards per rush 29 year old who hasn't had more then 170 carries in the last 3 seasons that Baltimore let go.  Do we really think they would have let him go if he was just about to be reborn as a top RB?  To me, its clear.  McGahee is worth about 100 to 150 carries, and this is a make or break year for Knowshon.  The only way he doesn't get 240+ carries is if he can't do it.  I think the Panthers organization is telling us they believe he can. I'll take their word for it. 

 

[Sabertooth]

FWIW, I think the only reason McGahee is getting the camp love is because he is the new toy (and he's new to they team/system - he NEEDS work to get familiar.) I would guess Moreno will get about 65-75% of the carries and most of the receptions, with McGahee brought in for a breather and occasional goal line/short yardage.

I see a split similar to what you'll see in Chicago with Forte/MBIII. Situation is almost identical (although Forte's production has been a little better). In bothe cases you have a young guy, drafted by the team, who has been starting for the past couple years. The team has brought in an older vet with a little more size to take the pounding in short yardage situations and spell him occasionally. I see no reason McGahee is all of the sudden going to start getting 15 carries...or anywhere close.

In an "average game" I see Moreno getting 16-20 carries and 4-6 catches, with Mcgahee toting the rock about 6-10 times. I don't see a big jump to Moreno's value (McGahee vulturing TDs will leech that) - but I don't see a big drop off either. Moreno will be a decent RB2, with weeks having borderline RB1 numbers (when he get's in the endzone).

Obviously health is a concern - but for both. If either goes down, obviously the value of the other jumps.

The problem with the bolded part is that the Broncos have a new coaching staff/system. So Moreno is JUST as new to them as McGahee. If anything, the fact that they inherited Moreno and went out and signed Willis means that Moreno NEEDS just as much work here.I have never been a Moreno fan dating back to his days at GA. Yes, he was productive there but I just didnt see the explosiveness, suddeness, or other factors needed for him to be anything more than an average NFL RB. He could prove me wrong and put up decent numbers when he was healthy last season but I still just don't see it.

I am not the biggest McGahee fan either but am slowly warming up to the idea that he can put up a decent season in Denver this year. If you look at a 31 year old Buckhalter's production in 2009 he clearly outperformed Moreno in terms of ypc. Moreno is no longer a rookie and again the system and coaching are different but I could see it playing out similarly for Willis in Denver this year.

I likely won't have either on my teams this year but at this point I think McGahee provides the MUCH better value and has an outside shot to equal or outperform Moreno straight up IMO.

I'm not sure this is a new system. The offensive coordinator is a holdover from the past staff. Maybe somebody like Cecil can chime in here.

 

[cvnpoka]

mccoy was on the panthers staff from 2000 to 2008 in various roles involving the passing game. then he served as oc under mcdaniels in 2009 and is now reunited with fox. really have no idea what to make of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_McCoy_%28American_football_coach%29

 

[VaTerp]

FWIW, I think the only reason McGahee is getting the camp love is because he is the new toy (and he's new to they team/system - he NEEDS work to get familiar.) I would guess Moreno will get about 65-75% of the carries and most of the receptions, with McGahee brought in for a breather and occasional goal line/short yardage.

I see a split similar to what you'll see in Chicago with Forte/MBIII. Situation is almost identical (although Forte's production has been a little better). In bothe cases you have a young guy, drafted by the team, who has been starting for the past couple years. The team has brought in an older vet with a little more size to take the pounding in short yardage situations and spell him occasionally. I see no reason McGahee is all of the sudden going to start getting 15 carries...or anywhere close.

In an "average game" I see Moreno getting 16-20 carries and 4-6 catches, with Mcgahee toting the rock about 6-10 times. I don't see a big jump to Moreno's value (McGahee vulturing TDs will leech that) - but I don't see a big drop off either. Moreno will be a decent RB2, with weeks having borderline RB1 numbers (when he get's in the endzone).

Obviously health is a concern - but for both. If either goes down, obviously the value of the other jumps.

The problem with the bolded part is that the Broncos have a new coaching staff/system. So Moreno is JUST as new to them as McGahee. If anything, the fact that they inherited Moreno and went out and signed Willis means that Moreno NEEDS just as much work here.I have never been a Moreno fan dating back to his days at GA. Yes, he was productive there but I just didnt see the explosiveness, suddeness, or other factors needed for him to be anything more than an average NFL RB. He could prove me wrong and put up decent numbers when he was healthy last season but I still just don't see it.

I am not the biggest McGahee fan either but am slowly warming up to the idea that he can put up a decent season in Denver this year. If you look at a 31 year old Buckhalter's production in 2009 he clearly outperformed Moreno in terms of ypc. Moreno is no longer a rookie and again the system and coaching are different but I could see it playing out similarly for Willis in Denver this year.

I likely won't have either on my teams this year but at this point I think McGahee provides the MUCH better value and has an outside shot to equal or outperform Moreno straight up IMO.

I'm not sure this is a new system. The offensive coordinator is a holdover from the past staff. Maybe somebody like Cecil can chime in here.

You're right. The offensive coordinator was retained from last year and apparently worked with Fox before. I also found the quote from Schefter that a NFL GM told him Moreno was the best back he'd seen coming out of college since Emmitt. I still find that amazing.Regardless, I'm just not a Moreno believer. Time will tell and I certainly could be wrong but I see a very very average back both NFL and FF wise.

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

This seems like a situation where the team spoke loudly to us with what they did, or more clearly what they didn't do.  They went after DeAngelo hard, telling us they like DeAngelo more then Knowshon.  They didn't go after Bradshaw, Snelling, Benson, or McClain.  Further, they didn't pay for restricted guys like Tolbert, Bush, or the Law Firm.  They didn't draft anyone.  I'll take all of that as a vote of confidence from the franchise.  They spoke clearly with their money that they felt Knowshon was going to be enough with a complimentary back.  (Mcgahee). If they thought Knowshon wasn't going to be able to do it they would have pushed harder for one of the guys above to go with McGahee.  Now, number of carries will be up in the air, but McGahee  hasn't been "amazing" for his career. He's talented, but a 4.0 yards per rush 29 year old who hasn't had more then 170 carries in the last 3 seasons that Baltimore let go.  Do we really think they would have let him go if he was just about to be reborn as a top RB?  To me, its clear.  McGahee is worth about 100 to 150 carries, and this is a make or break year for Knowshon.  The only way he doesn't get 240+ carries is if he can't do it.  I think the Panthers organization is telling us they believe he can. I'll take their word for it. 

Maybe they like Jeremiah Johnson?

 

[Jestefarean]

This seems like a situation where the team spoke loudly to us with what they did, or more clearly what they didn't do.  They went after DeAngelo hard, telling us they like DeAngelo more then Knowshon.  They didn't go after Bradshaw, Snelling, Benson, or McClain.  Further, they didn't pay for restricted guys like Tolbert, Bush, or the Law Firm.  They didn't draft anyone.  I'll take all of that as a vote of confidence from the franchise.  They spoke clearly with their money that they felt Knowshon was going to be enough with a complimentary back.  (Mcgahee). If they thought Knowshon wasn't going to be able to do it they would have pushed harder for one of the guys above to go with McGahee.  Now, number of carries will be up in the air, but McGahee  hasn't been "amazing" for his career. He's talented, but a 4.0 yards per rush 29 year old who hasn't had more then 170 carries in the last 3 seasons that Baltimore let go.  Do we really think they would have let him go if he was just about to be reborn as a top RB?  To me, its clear.  McGahee is worth about 100 to 150 carries, and this is a make or break year for Knowshon.  The only way he doesn't get 240+ carries is if he can't do it.  I think the Panthers organization is telling us they believe he can. I'll take their word for it. 

Maybe they like Jeremiah Johnson?

It's certainly reasonable that they had or have a lot of confidence in someone else on the roster. Considering Moreno seems to get first team carries over JJ I would lean that way. This could be off base, and I know Cecil isn't a fan, but in general it seems the best advice is to not only watch the players, but watch what the team does. Seems to me the Broncos actions speak volumes.

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

This seems like a situation where the team spoke loudly to us with what they did, or more clearly what they didn't do.  They went after DeAngelo hard, telling us they like DeAngelo more then Knowshon.  They didn't go after Bradshaw, Snelling, Benson, or McClain.  Further, they didn't pay for restricted guys like Tolbert, Bush, or the Law Firm.  They didn't draft anyone.  I'll take all of that as a vote of confidence from the franchise.  They spoke clearly with their money that they felt Knowshon was going to be enough with a complimentary back.  (Mcgahee). If they thought Knowshon wasn't going to be able to do it they would have pushed harder for one of the guys above to go with McGahee.  Now, number of carries will be up in the air, but McGahee  hasn't been "amazing" for his career. He's talented, but a 4.0 yards per rush 29 year old who hasn't had more then 170 carries in the last 3 seasons that Baltimore let go.  Do we really think they would have let him go if he was just about to be reborn as a top RB?  To me, its clear.  McGahee is worth about 100 to 150 carries, and this is a make or break year for Knowshon.  The only way he doesn't get 240+ carries is if he can't do it.  I think the Panthers organization is telling us they believe he can. I'll take their word for it. 

Maybe they like Jeremiah Johnson?

It's certainly reasonable that they had or have a lot of confidence in someone else on the roster. Considering Moreno seems to get first team carries over JJ I would lean that way. This could be off base, and I know Cecil isn't a fan, but in general it seems the best advice is to not only watch the players, but watch what the team does. Seems to me the Broncos actions speak volumes.

What are the odds that someone else is the starter before the season is over and it's not because of injury?

 

[zamboni]

Cecil has been there every day and has done tremendous work in scouting out the RB situation - I wouldn't overlook his positive views on McGahee and lukewarm assessment of Moreno.

 

[baconisgood]

This seems like a situation where the team spoke loudly to us with what they did, or more clearly what they didn't do.  They went after DeAngelo hard, telling us they like DeAngelo more then Knowshon.  They didn't go after Bradshaw, Snelling, Benson, or McClain.  Further, they didn't pay for restricted guys like Tolbert, Bush, or the Law Firm.  They didn't draft anyone.  I'll take all of that as a vote of confidence from the franchise.  They spoke clearly with their money that they felt Knowshon was going to be enough with a complimentary back.  (Mcgahee). If they thought Knowshon wasn't going to be able to do it they would have pushed harder for one of the guys above to go with McGahee.  Now, number of carries will be up in the air, but McGahee  hasn't been "amazing" for his career. He's talented, but a 4.0 yards per rush 29 year old who hasn't had more then 170 carries in the last 3 seasons that Baltimore let go.  Do we really think they would have let him go if he was just about to be reborn as a top RB?  To me, its clear.  McGahee is worth about 100 to 150 carries, and this is a make or break year for Knowshon.  The only way he doesn't get 240+ carries is if he can't do it.  I think the Panthers organization is telling us they believe he can. I'll take their word for it. 

Restricted players rarely leave their teams. The Broncos would have had to give up a 1st and 3rd for Bush, that clearly isn't going to happen. Otherwise all the RBs had major ?s about them. Bradshaw has had multiple foot and ankle surgeries, Benson legal issues and McClain is probably ~ in running talent as McGahee. Further next year is currently slated to be one of the best FA RB classes ever. All we learned is Moreno will get a shot, but how much of one is still a ?

 

[Shutout]

This seems like a situation where the team spoke loudly to us with what they did, or more clearly what they didn't do.  They went after DeAngelo hard, telling us they like DeAngelo more then Knowshon.  They didn't go after Bradshaw, Snelling, Benson, or McClain.  Further, they didn't pay for restricted guys like Tolbert, Bush, or the Law Firm.  They didn't draft anyone.  I'll take all of that as a vote of confidence from the franchise.  They spoke clearly with their money that they felt Knowshon was going to be enough with a complimentary back.  (Mcgahee). If they thought Knowshon wasn't going to be able to do it they would have pushed harder for one of the guys above to go with McGahee.  Now, number of carries will be up in the air, but McGahee  hasn't been "amazing" for his career. He's talented, but a 4.0 yards per rush 29 year old who hasn't had more then 170 carries in the last 3 seasons that Baltimore let go.  Do we really think they would have let him go if he was just about to be reborn as a top RB?  To me, its clear.  McGahee is worth about 100 to 150 carries, and this is a make or break year for Knowshon.  The only way he doesn't get 240+ carries is if he can't do it.  I think the Panthers organization is telling us they believe he can. I'll take their word for it. 

Realyl good post. Only thing I will add is that, in terms of Mcgahee and keeping an idea, as you suggest, of watching what teams are actually doing just as much as what they are saying, is that the Ravens are a team that have a clear expectation to challenge for a Superbowl and they have key players getting up there in age. I have to think that if the Ravens actually think that Mcgahee could be anywhere near as effective as people are suggesting he might be in denver, then the Ravens would have made it a priority to keep him because he would have been invaluable to them versus any other Rb that might have bben available that is a non-starter. I have to think the Ravens know what he is and their willingness to let him go suggests to me that they don't think he could be an effective every week starter anymore and, in fact, he hasn't been in 2+ years now.

 

[Shutout]

Cecil has been there every day and has done tremendous work in scouting out the RB situation - I wouldn't overlook his positive views on McGahee and lukewarm assessment of Moreno.

he certainly has put in a lot of work but we also have to take a lot of this with a grain of salt.You have to realize what they are looking at.If you have been to the first days of training camps, you know that a lot of these times, these are segments and are not even in pads and making contact, etc. Its not like every day he is watching a full scrimmage. lots of guys look one way in helmets and t-shirts and another on the field.And, I don't know how it is in Denver, but I can remember being at camps with a few other teams and thinking guys I KNEW were great looking ho hum. Michael Turner always looked better than LT in camp. That wasn't a sign of their relative talent level I don't think. I think it was more like, either LT knew he didn't have to make a statement in camp or the coaches might have even said "don't be silly out there in PRACTICE". On the other hand, when you are the new guy to the team or the non-starter, you are trying to impress teammates and coaches. You probably do have a bigger sense of urgency. And in Moreno's case, he knows that he has come out the first two years in camp trying to play like a dynamo and he's tweaked hammys and such. So maybe he has learned when and where to put in that extra gear. Honestly, I'm not there to make my own eyeball take on it, but I can certainly see it being plausible that there's more to it than just what one person reports as being good or not. Jeremiah Johnson is a perfect example. The last two years, all you ever heard about from people reporting in was how GREAT JJ looked in camp...yet he has been released multiple times...by Fox once. So, to me its a grain of salt and you can get great insight from hard working people like Cecil but you can't just assume that the person sending in the tweet is the decision maker also.

 

[Hammerage]

Cecil has been there every day and has done tremendous work in scouting out the RB situation - I wouldn't overlook his positive views on McGahee and lukewarm assessment of Moreno.

he certainly has put in a lot of work but we also have to take a lot of this with a grain of salt.You have to realize what they are looking at.If you have been to the first days of training camps, you know that a lot of these times, these are segments and are not even in pads and making contact, etc. Its not like every day he is watching a full scrimmage. lots of guys look one way in helmets and t-shirts and another on the field.And, I don't know how it is in Denver, but I can remember being at camps with a few other teams and thinking guys I KNEW were great looking ho hum. Michael Turner always looked better than LT in camp. That wasn't a sign of their relative talent level I don't think. I think it was more like, either LT knew he didn't have to make a statement in camp or the coaches might have even said "don't be silly out there in PRACTICE". On the other hand, when you are the new guy to the team or the non-starter, you are trying to impress teammates and coaches. You probably do have a bigger sense of urgency. And in Moreno's case, he knows that he has come out the first two years in camp trying to play like a dynamo and he's tweaked hammys and such. So maybe he has learned when and where to put in that extra gear. Honestly, I'm not there to make my own eyeball take on it, but I can certainly see it being plausible that there's more to it than just what one person reports as being good or not. Jeremiah Johnson is a perfect example. The last two years, all you ever heard about from people reporting in was how GREAT JJ looked in camp...yet he has been released multiple times...by Fox once. So, to me its a grain of salt and you can get great insight from hard working people like Cecil but you can't just assume that the person sending in the tweet is the decision maker also.

When it comes to Denver RB's I really trust Cecil. He was right on a few years ago about Mike Anderson which gave a bunch of us a huge advantage over persons not following the situation. Fox said before the season that the RB position was the number 1 priority. I take that as a lack of faith in Moreno. I think Fox will go by what he sees on the field as he has no dog in the fight with Moreno. He didn't draft him. That was the old regime.

 

[Jestefarean]

Regarding Cecil, I love his updates and appreciate his viewpoint but none if us are perfect. I seem to remember Cecil toughting Lawerence Marone last year as looking better then Knowshon. I even agreed with the idea. We saw how that worked out. I have tempered expectations based on Cecil, but I'm not selling until I see the team showing signs of giving up. I'm not buying into Mcgahee as anything more then a compliment and handcuff. Preseason should be fun.

 

[Hammerage]

Willis McGahee​. Fox has hinted that he sees no reason to risk the health of starters in preseason games, so McGahee might get only a carry or two against the Cowboys. His 30-yard run in practice Tuesday was the power-speed combination the Broncos hadn't seen in their backfield in a long time. If McGahee's knees hold up this year, he figures to score some touchdowns.

Read more: Analysis: Broncos' preseason opener provides intriguing look at John Fox's product - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_18655471?source=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dp-sports-broncos+%28Denver+Post%3A+Sports%3A+Broncos%29#ixzz1UjyzRihP

Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

 

[Shutout]

Cecil has been there every day and has done tremendous work in scouting out the RB situation - I wouldn't overlook his positive views on McGahee and lukewarm assessment of Moreno.

he certainly has put in a lot of work but we also have to take a lot of this with a grain of salt.You have to realize what they are looking at.If you have been to the first days of training camps, you know that a lot of these times, these are segments and are not even in pads and making contact, etc. Its not like every day he is watching a full scrimmage. lots of guys look one way in helmets and t-shirts and another on the field.And, I don't know how it is in Denver, but I can remember being at camps with a few other teams and thinking guys I KNEW were great looking ho hum. Michael Turner always looked better than LT in camp. That wasn't a sign of their relative talent level I don't think. I think it was more like, either LT knew he didn't have to make a statement in camp or the coaches might have even said "don't be silly out there in PRACTICE". On the other hand, when you are the new guy to the team or the non-starter, you are trying to impress teammates and coaches. You probably do have a bigger sense of urgency. And in Moreno's case, he knows that he has come out the first two years in camp trying to play like a dynamo and he's tweaked hammys and such. So maybe he has learned when and where to put in that extra gear. Honestly, I'm not there to make my own eyeball take on it, but I can certainly see it being plausible that there's more to it than just what one person reports as being good or not. Jeremiah Johnson is a perfect example. The last two years, all you ever heard about from people reporting in was how GREAT JJ looked in camp...yet he has been released multiple times...by Fox once. So, to me its a grain of salt and you can get great insight from hard working people like Cecil but you can't just assume that the person sending in the tweet is the decision maker also.

When it comes to Denver RB's I really trust Cecil. He was right on a few years ago about Mike Anderson which gave a bunch of us a huge advantage over persons not following the situation. Fox said before the season that the RB position was the number 1 priority. I take that as a lack of faith in Moreno. I think Fox will go by what he sees on the field as he has no dog in the fight with Moreno. He didn't draft him. That was the old regime.

With all due respect to Cecil's opinion (and this not at all aimed at refuting him), I made the same assessment of Mike Anderson those years ago and added him to my teams too and I never set foot in Denver that year and read little on the Internet about it. And I can definitely see a defensive-minded coach who has a history of running the ball a lot saying "RB is the priority" but that is NOT the same as saying "I don't like what I have". Every coach in the league will say it takes more than 1 back these days when they interview but you see what happens when the bullets fly for real; teams use players to various degrees". And in this particular case, because of the lockout, Fox had never had a chance to train with Moreno before he said that so it certainly wasn't a statement based on assessment. It was, just a general statement that all coaches say. YOu could ask Leslie Fraizer and he would say "We have to have a great running game." That doesn't mean they are pushing Peterson out the door anytime soon.Again, I'm not trying to deminish the value of lots of information that Cecil and many people like him pipe in to us. I'm just saying that the opinion of one may not match the actions and viewpoints of the organization. These things are not in a vacuum. Even when Denver was saying they wanted to trade Orton, we quickly saw through their actions that many other factors played into that and, in the end, was not how it went.

 

[Hammerage]

There is enough out there at this point with Moreno getting outperformed by McGahee on a daily basis (by more than one source) and the fact they are both splitting reps with the 1st team, that I wouldn't touch Moreno for anything right now. Especially not when I can pick up McGahee for next to nothing in the late rounds of any draft. That is really what it comes down to for me. Moreno has no value in the early rounds vs others with much better upside at this point.

 

[OnTheReg]

http://www.denverpost.com/broncosmailbag/ci_18686325

"John Fox plans to run and run some more"

 

[guderian]

I don't get the negativity on Moreno. He averaged less than 3.5 ypc in only 3 games last year and in two of those he had a combined 11 carries. That shows some pretty solid consistency. He finished the season averaging a respectable 4.3 ypc. He's also proven to be a solid receiving threat with 372 yards last year. The negative take we have on Moreno is based largely on how he's 'looked'. Well regardless of how he looks, he's put up decent numbers on the field and I don't see him being blown off the field by a soon-to-be 30 year old running back who's had four sub 4.0 ypc seasons during his 7 year career. All offseason the talk was that Moreno was pedestrian and they were bringing in Deangelo Williams to be the bell cow. Well they brought in a 30-year old RB who's last 1000 total yardage season was in 2007. Still many are projecting the same outcome even though Moreno's competition has been downgraded from Deangelo Williams to Willis McGahee. I think if the Denver coaching staff felt the same way as some of Moreno's critics, they would have brought in better competition. There's even a bullish case on Moreno that Denver will run the ball more often and with more success this year.

Looking at Fox's history, I wouldn't be surprised to see both backs with north of 200 carries.

For Moreno: 240/1008 40/400 with 8 TDs.