Labor Dispute Master Thread (2 Viewers)

[Cassius]

LOL, the owners don't HAVE to sign any FAs right now. Do the pro-union people here think that?

There's no NFLPA or CBA right now. If the owners all stonewall the players, doesn't that raise anti-trust issues?

 

[fatness]

There's no NFLPA or CBA right now. If the owners all stonewall the players, doesn't that raise anti-trust issues?

Yes, it eventually will.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

There's no NFLPA or CBA right now. If the owners all stonewall the players, doesn't that raise anti-trust issues?

Yes, it eventually will.

You're smart enough to work in the word "eventually". Of course it will eventually. But when the FA period opens every year is every FA signed immediately? Of course not. There are some that are done right away (and likely was some tampering) but most take weeks if not a month or two. So are the other people here suggesting that the owners need to scrap that normal process and immediately sign every FA? And that Judge Nelson will make them do that?I just don't understand how the desire for the NFL makes people on this board overlook the other ramifications of the situation.

 

[cobalt_27]

There's no NFLPA or CBA right now. If the owners all stonewall the players, doesn't that raise anti-trust issues?

Yes, it eventually will.

Key word here. I get the sense that some people feel that FAs should be signing right and left today. That's simply not going to happen, nor should it be expected to happen.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

There's no NFLPA or CBA right now. If the owners all stonewall the players, doesn't that raise anti-trust issues?

Yes, it eventually will.

Key word here. I get the sense that some people feel that FAs should be signing right and left today. That's simply not going to happen, nor should it be expected to happen.

Not to mention that the owners could make a very good argument that they need to see the setup of the season before knowing who to sign. Of course they are the ones that need to define that setup, but certainly that step should be done before the FA signings.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

But when the FA period opens every year is every FA signed immediately? Of course not.

There certainly are FA signed immediatley when every FA period opens.Are all of them signed? Of course not. But if you remove the "every" from your post, the answer becomes 100%-yes.

 

[fatness]

So are the other people here suggesting that the owners need to scrap that normal process and immediately sign every FA? And that Judge Nelson will make them do that?

I haven't seen this. Perhaps you could point it out in the topic?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

There's no NFLPA or CBA right now. If the owners all stonewall the players, doesn't that raise anti-trust issues?

Yes, it eventually will.

Key word here. I get the sense that some people feel that FAs should be signing right and left today. That's simply not going to happen, nor should it be expected to happen.

FAs always get signed the day free agency opens.Are the front offices and general managers going to all decide at the same time to stop taking care of business as usual?

That could really come back to haunt the owners if so... maybe even within these very court proceedings.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

So are the other people here suggesting that the owners need to scrap that normal process and immediately sign every FA? And that Judge Nelson will make them do that?

I haven't seen this. Perhaps you could point it out in the topic?

It's a question. I'm asking if that's what the people who responded before you believe. HTH.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

But when the FA period opens every year is every FA signed immediately? Of course not.

There certainly are FA signed immediatley when every FA period opens.Are all of them signed? Of course not. But if you remove the "every" from your post, the answer becomes 100%-yes.

Did you miss where I said some are signed right away?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

But when the FA period opens every year is every FA signed immediately? Of course not.

There certainly are FA signed immediatley when every FA period opens.Are all of them signed? Of course not. But if you remove the "every" from your post, the answer becomes 100%-yes.

Did you miss where I said some are signed right away?

So you are saying we will have some FA signed in the next 24 hours?

 

[ConstruxBoy]

There's no NFLPA or CBA right now. If the owners all stonewall the players, doesn't that raise anti-trust issues?

Yes, it eventually will.

Key word here. I get the sense that some people feel that FAs should be signing right and left today. That's simply not going to happen, nor should it be expected to happen.

FAs always get signed the day free agency opens.Are the front offices and general managers going to all decide at the same time to stop taking care of business as usual?

That could really come back to haunt the owners if so... maybe even within these very court proceedings.

This one is easy. It isn't business as usual and it hasn't been for months. A judge saying it should be so doesn't change the fact that coaches haven't talked to their assistants about what positions are needed, that GMs haven't talked to their cap experts about how much wiggle room they have and that assistants haven't talked to players in OTAs about position adjustments or responsibility changes. Teams need to do all that before they can reasonable sign FAs.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

But when the FA period opens every year is every FA signed immediately? Of course not.

There certainly are FA signed immediatley when every FA period opens.Are all of them signed? Of course not. But if you remove the "every" from your post, the answer becomes 100%-yes.

Did you miss where I said some are signed right away?

So you are saying we will have some FA signed in the next 24 hours?

LMAO, see the post right above this one.

 

[renesauz]

I don't think it's reasonable to expect the NFL to follow a normal off-seasons procedures, regardless of the lift order.

EG: It would be perfectly reasonable for the NFL to revamp the off-season schedule to accomodate the unusual circumstances. There's good, logical reasons why they may decide to postpone free agency until a week or so AFTER the draft.

Other things should obviously be opened much more quickly. For example, there's no good reason why players cant work out in the teams facilities. Since the lockout has been deemed illegal, the teams will be liable for workout bonuses based on the workouts AVAILABLE to players, instead of the normal number. Most of these things are easy fixes, and the NFL deserves at least a couple of days to set everything up. Waiting 2 days to see if the stay of execution goes through is not unreasonable either.

 

[fatness]

This one is easy. It isn't business as usual and it hasn't been for months. A judge saying it should be so doesn't change the fact that coaches haven't talked to their assistants about what positions are needed, that GMs haven't talked to their cap experts about how much wiggle room they have and that assistants haven't talked to players in OTAs about position adjustments or responsibility changes. Teams need to do all that before they can reasonable sign FAs.

I'll venture that all league coaches have talked to their assistants about what positions are needed, that all GMs have talked to their cap experts about how much wiggle room they have.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

There's no NFLPA or CBA right now. If the owners all stonewall the players, doesn't that raise anti-trust issues?

Yes, it eventually will.

Key word here. I get the sense that some people feel that FAs should be signing right and left today. That's simply not going to happen, nor should it be expected to happen.

FAs always get signed the day free agency opens.Are the front offices and general managers going to all decide at the same time to stop taking care of business as usual?

That could really come back to haunt the owners if so... maybe even within these very court proceedings.

This one is easy. It isn't business as usual and it hasn't been for months. A judge saying it should be so doesn't change the fact that coaches haven't talked to their assistants about what positions are needed, that GMs haven't talked to their cap experts about how much wiggle room they have and that assistants haven't talked to players in OTAs about position adjustments or responsibility changes. Teams need to do all that before they can reasonable sign FAs.

So they will ALL (collude) agree to not sign anyone? They will all not do what the judge ordered.This will bite them in the ### in the current proceedings no doubt.

You can try and play coy... but judges wont buy it, in fact that will make it worse.

 

[fatness]

It's a question. I'm asking if that's what the people who responded before you believe. HTH.

Read the whole thread.HTH

 

[BigSteelThrill]

This one is easy. It isn't business as usual and it hasn't been for months. A judge saying it should be so doesn't change the fact that coaches haven't talked to their assistants about what positions are needed, that GMs haven't talked to their cap experts about how much wiggle room they have and that assistants haven't talked to players in OTAs about position adjustments or responsibility changes. Teams need to do all that before they can reasonable sign FAs.

I'll venture that all league coaches have talked to their assistants about what positions are needed, that all GMs have talked to their cap experts about how much wiggle room they have.

No freaking doubt. None.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

This one is easy. It isn't business as usual and it hasn't been for months. A judge saying it should be so doesn't change the fact that coaches haven't talked to their assistants about what positions are needed, that GMs haven't talked to their cap experts about how much wiggle room they have and that assistants haven't talked to players in OTAs about position adjustments or responsibility changes. Teams need to do all that before they can reasonable sign FAs.

I'll venture that all league coaches have talked to their assistants about what positions are needed, that all GMs have talked to their cap experts about how much wiggle room they have.

What cap?

 

[cobalt_27]

There's no NFLPA or CBA right now. If the owners all stonewall the players, doesn't that raise anti-trust issues?

Yes, it eventually will.

Key word here. I get the sense that some people feel that FAs should be signing right and left today. That's simply not going to happen, nor should it be expected to happen.

FAs always get signed the day free agency opens.Are the front offices and general managers going to all decide at the same time to stop taking care of business as usual?

That could really come back to haunt the owners if so... maybe even within these very court proceedings.

well, nobody is getting signed today, nobody is getting signed tomorrow, and probably nobody is getting signed on thursday or friday. and nobody is going to be found in contempt of court over this.

 

[fatness]

What cap?

Different cap levels that might eventually be agreed upon with the players. NFL fron offices certainly have plans for different contingencies.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

I don't think anyone expects all the FAs to be signed immediately. What I think some folks/players MIGHT expect, is a reasonable willingness to discuss business within a couple of days IF there is no stay.

It all depends on whether it is convincing that each INDIVIDUAL TEAM is unwilling to look at FAs, rather than there having been an agreement (tacit or not) among the teams to NOT engage in normal business after it has been mandated that they do.

I think you could make a case either way. It really may not be in any team's individual best interest to sign FAs right now. Or there could easily be some kind of understanding among the owners saying "F them, nobody work on any deals".

 

[Holy Schneikes]

What cap?

Different cap levels that might eventually be agreed upon with the players. NFL fron offices certainly have plans for different contingencies.

That's a stretch. You can't spend TOO much time debating about the detailed ramifications of a potential contract against a cap that doesn't exist right now, may or may not exist in the future, and with zero knowledge on what form it may end up taking.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

This one is easy. It isn't business as usual and it hasn't been for months. A judge saying it should be so doesn't change the fact that coaches haven't talked to their assistants about what positions are needed, that GMs haven't talked to their cap experts about how much wiggle room they have and that assistants haven't talked to players in OTAs about position adjustments or responsibility changes. Teams need to do all that before they can reasonable sign FAs.

I'll venture that all league coaches have talked to their assistants about what positions are needed, that all GMs have talked to their cap experts about how much wiggle room they have.

Maybe. No way to really know though.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

It's a question. I'm asking if that's what the people who responded before you believe. HTH.

Read the whole thread.HTH

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I don't think anyone expects all the FAs to be signed immediately. What I think some folks/players MIGHT expect, is a reasonable willingness to discuss business within a couple of days IF there is no stay.It all depends on whether it is convincing that each INDIVIDUAL TEAM is unwilling to look at FAs, rather than there having been an agreement (tacit or not) among the teams to NOT engage in normal business after it has been mandated that they do.I think you could make a case either way. It really may not be in any team's individual best interest to sign FAs right now. Or there could easily be some kind of understanding among the owners saying "F them, nobody work on any deals".

Ah, a voice of reason in this dark forest. Thank you.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

What cap?

Different cap levels that might eventually be agreed upon with the players. NFL fron offices certainly have plans for different contingencies.

That's a stretch. You can't spend TOO much time debating about the detailed ramifications of a potential contract against a cap that doesn't exist right now, may or may not exist in the future, and with zero knowledge on what form it may end up taking.

Tag, you're it. Good luck in here.

 

[Ksquared]

Big Steel and Fatness we get it. You want the owners to suffer anyway possible because they are evil rich boys playing around with peoples lives. You want them to get theirs. You come off so unrealistic it is hard to even respond. As was just said, WHAT CAP? Is there going to be one, no one knows. Secondly, you bet the coaches have talked, but just because in a normal year teams "cheat" by negotiating before the deadline and sign players at 12:01 does not mean that is what should happen and definitely would not happen now. The players have been off limits to any contact by coaches/GMs for months. How are these secret negotiations supposed to occur in this time frame? The judge did not order FA signings to start and just because it may take a week for things to pick up does not mean they are colluding, it frankly is just common sense. You want your GM to go out there and just throw some money at a couple of players so they can say, see it business as usual. Then when these players they quickly grabbed tank, you will be the first wanting the head of your GM. Secondly the draft is on their door step right now and all their energy is normally focused on the draft. Will someone get signed shortly? I don't know, but if there gets to be a new CBA before the season and your ownership threw money around after FA. It could be a very painful year for that team. That is why teams are moving slowly.

 

[shader]

The agents and players just received a memo telling them to start negotiating......

 

[cobalt_27]

The agents and players just received a memo telling them to start negotiating......

Silence on the other line.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

The agents and players just received a memo telling them to start negotiating......

Which of course assumes there is someone to negotiate WITH.While I think there could be some reasonable expectations on the owners, I'm not sure we'll see anything done in the next day or two no matter what. It's possible some desperate rogue team attempts to fill a need before the draft I guess, but I don't see it happening.

 

[fatness]

That's a stretch. You can't spend TOO much time debating about the detailed ramifications of a potential contract against a cap that doesn't exist right now, may or may not exist in the future, and with zero knowledge on what form it may end up taking.

What else are NFL front offices unable to do?

 

[fatness]

The agents and players just received a memo telling them to start negotiating......

This is the memo they received, from earlier in the thread

NFLPA attorney Mark Levin sent out a memo to all players Tuesday informing them that free agents may begin negotiating with teams immediately.

The memo states: "Judge Nelson's order is in effect as of 6 p.m. EDT on April 25, 2011, and unless and until that order is stayed, the clubs are NOT allowed to refuse to negotiate with you." The owners have obviously interpreted Judge Nelson's order differently, citing a "considerable degree of uncertainty." The bottom line is that nobody will have a good read on the start of free agency -- and it's 2011 rules -- until Judge Nelson rules on the owners' request for a stay Wednesday.

I don't see where they were told to start negotiating.

 

[fatness]

Entire memo sent to NFL Players this afternoon

4. I am not under contract and am currently a free agent, does this mean I can shop my services to teams right now?

Unless and until Judge Nelson or the Court of Appeals issues another order, the lockout has been ordered to end immediately, and if the NFL does not comply, it would be in contempt of the court order. So, until you hear otherwise, if you are not under contract, Class Counsel believes that you and your agent can contact teams and shop your services to the clubs. Judge Nelson's order is in effect as of 6 p.m. EDT on April 25, 2011, and unless and until that order is stayed, the clubs are not allowed to refuse to negotiate with you. If they do refuse, you should contact Class Counsel immediately (contact information is listed below.) The NFL must put in place a free agency system that complies with the antitrust laws.

5. Does this mean teams have to open their doors to players under contract?

Again, unless and until Judge Nelson or the Court of Appeals issues an order staying (delaying) the lifting of the lockout, teams have to reverse the steps they put into place with the lockout, and open their doors to players under contract. If you are under contract and you choose to go to the team's facility, class counsel believes that the club must allow you access to the facility and staff or the club will be in violation of Judge Nelson's order. Please inform class counsel immediately if you have any problems from your club with access to the facility and/or staff. If you are under contract, your NFL club will likely send you instructions relating to off-season workout programs and any other rules they may have relating to the off-season.

 

[Hoosier16]

Entire memo sent to NFL Players this afternoon

4. I am not under contract and am currently a free agent, does this mean I can shop my services to teams right now?

Unless and until Judge Nelson or the Court of Appeals issues another order, the lockout has been ordered to end immediately, and if the NFL does not comply, it would be in contempt of the court order. So, until you hear otherwise, if you are not under contract, Class Counsel believes that you and your agent can contact teams and shop your services to the clubs. Judge Nelson's order is in effect as of 6 p.m. EDT on April 25, 2011, and unless and until that order is stayed, the clubs are not allowed to refuse to negotiate with you. If they do refuse, you should contact Class Counsel immediately (contact information is listed below.) The NFL must put in place a free agency system that complies with the antitrust laws.

As an owner, I wouldn't find it hard to be in compliance at all. Every FA that called would get an offer - somewhere around 5 years, 250k.

 

[cobalt_27]

Entire memo sent to NFL Players this afternoon

4. I am not under contract and am currently a free agent, does this mean I can shop my services to teams right now?

Unless and until Judge Nelson or the Court of Appeals issues another order, the lockout has been ordered to end immediately, and if the NFL does not comply, it would be in contempt of the court order. So, until you hear otherwise, if you are not under contract, Class Counsel believes that you and your agent can contact teams and shop your services to the clubs. Judge Nelson's order is in effect as of 6 p.m. EDT on April 25, 2011, and unless and until that order is stayed, the clubs are not allowed to refuse to negotiate with you. If they do refuse, you should contact Class Counsel immediately (contact information is listed below.) The NFL must put in place a free agency system that complies with the antitrust laws.

As an owner, I wouldn't find it hard to be in compliance at all. Every FA that called would get an offer - somewhere around 5 years, 250k.

And, I would call all the players you did and offer them 1 years at $220k so that they can be eligible for more money when they decide it's time to return to the collective bargaining table.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

Entire memo sent to NFL Players this afternoon

4. I am not under contract and am currently a free agent, does this mean I can shop my services to teams right now?

Unless and until Judge Nelson or the Court of Appeals issues another order, the lockout has been ordered to end immediately, and if the NFL does not comply, it would be in contempt of the court order. So, until you hear otherwise, if you are not under contract, Class Counsel believes that you and your agent can contact teams and shop your services to the clubs. Judge Nelson's order is in effect as of 6 p.m. EDT on April 25, 2011, and unless and until that order is stayed, the clubs are not allowed to refuse to negotiate with you. If they do refuse, you should contact Class Counsel immediately (contact information is listed below.) The NFL must put in place a free agency system that complies with the antitrust laws.

As an owner, I wouldn't find it hard to be in compliance at all. Every FA that called would get an offer - somewhere around 5 years, 250k.

And then a team in your division would offer them 260k. And then another team in your division would offer them 270k. And in the end, they'd be offered something near their market value, and your team wouldn't have any FAs. Unless of course you had an arrangement with the other teams in the league not to offer and more than your 250k - which would probably be illegal in the current situation.

 

[Hoosier16]

Entire memo sent to NFL Players this afternoon

4. I am not under contract and am currently a free agent, does this mean I can shop my services to teams right now?

Unless and until Judge Nelson or the Court of Appeals issues another order, the lockout has been ordered to end immediately, and if the NFL does not comply, it would be in contempt of the court order. So, until you hear otherwise, if you are not under contract, Class Counsel believes that you and your agent can contact teams and shop your services to the clubs. Judge Nelson's order is in effect as of 6 p.m. EDT on April 25, 2011, and unless and until that order is stayed, the clubs are not allowed to refuse to negotiate with you. If they do refuse, you should contact Class Counsel immediately (contact information is listed below.) The NFL must put in place a free agency system that complies with the antitrust laws.

As an owner, I wouldn't find it hard to be in compliance at all. Every FA that called would get an offer - somewhere around 5 years, 250k.

And then a team in your division would offer them 260k. And then another team in your division would offer them 270k. And in the end, they'd be offered something near their market value, and your team wouldn't have any FAs. Unless of course you had an arrangement with the other teams in the league not to offer and more than your 250k - which would probably be illegal in the current situation.

That's the point. What is market value for 2/3 of the players who have been artificially supported by a minimum salary for years?

 

[shader]

They were clearly told that they may start negotiating in the very link you provided fatness.

They weren't given an ultimatum and told they MUST start but that they are free to start negotiating at the moment, as they consider the lockout to be over.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Entire memo sent to NFL Players this afternoon

4. I am not under contract and am currently a free agent, does this mean I can shop my services to teams right now?

Unless and until Judge Nelson or the Court of Appeals issues another order, the lockout has been ordered to end immediately, and if the NFL does not comply, it would be in contempt of the court order. So, until you hear otherwise, if you are not under contract, Class Counsel believes that you and your agent can contact teams and shop your services to the clubs. Judge Nelson's order is in effect as of 6 p.m. EDT on April 25, 2011, and unless and until that order is stayed, the clubs are not allowed to refuse to negotiate with you. If they do refuse, you should contact Class Counsel immediately (contact information is listed below.) The NFL must put in place a free agency system that complies with the antitrust laws.

As an owner, I wouldn't find it hard to be in compliance at all. Every FA that called would get an offer - somewhere around 5 years, 250k.

And then a team in your division would offer them 260k. And then another team in your division would offer them 270k. And in the end, they'd be offered something near their market value, and your team wouldn't have any FAs. Unless of course you had an arrangement with the other teams in the league not to offer and more than your 250k - which would probably be illegal in the current situation.

That's the point. What is market value for 2/3 of the players who have been artificially supported by a minimum salary for years?

Their market value will be determined by the market. It's whatever the highest bidder offers.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I don't think teams will be barred from colluding on the issue of when to start negotiating with free agents. If the blackout remains lifted, that means the new league year will start. But the league still gets to make rules about stuff like when the free agent signing period will start. It doesn't have to be on day one of the new league year. (But the league will have to set a date. If it just does nothing, I don't see what's to stop Dan Snyder from signing everybody.)

 

[Hoosier16]

Entire memo sent to NFL Players this afternoon

4. I am not under contract and am currently a free agent, does this mean I can shop my services to teams right now?

Unless and until Judge Nelson or the Court of Appeals issues another order, the lockout has been ordered to end immediately, and if the NFL does not comply, it would be in contempt of the court order. So, until you hear otherwise, if you are not under contract, Class Counsel believes that you and your agent can contact teams and shop your services to the clubs. Judge Nelson's order is in effect as of 6 p.m. EDT on April 25, 2011, and unless and until that order is stayed, the clubs are not allowed to refuse to negotiate with you. If they do refuse, you should contact Class Counsel immediately (contact information is listed below.) The NFL must put in place a free agency system that complies with the antitrust laws.

As an owner, I wouldn't find it hard to be in compliance at all. Every FA that called would get an offer - somewhere around 5 years, 250k.

And then a team in your division would offer them 260k. And then another team in your division would offer them 270k. And in the end, they'd be offered something near their market value, and your team wouldn't have any FAs. Unless of course you had an arrangement with the other teams in the league not to offer and more than your 250k - which would probably be illegal in the current situation.

That's the point. What is market value for 2/3 of the players who have been artificially supported by a minimum salary for years?

Their market value will be determined by the market. It's whatever the highest bidder offers.

And once again, that's the point. As the players receive these offers, they will very quickly see they aren't worth nearly as much as they were with an artificial floor. Unless, of course, you're suggesting that their market value will end up higher than the old league minimum.

 

[coolnerd]

Entire memo sent to NFL Players this afternoon

4. I am not under contract and am currently a free agent, does this mean I can shop my services to teams right now?

Unless and until Judge Nelson or the Court of Appeals issues another order, the lockout has been ordered to end immediately, and if the NFL does not comply, it would be in contempt of the court order. So, until you hear otherwise, if you are not under contract, Class Counsel believes that you and your agent can contact teams and shop your services to the clubs. Judge Nelson's order is in effect as of 6 p.m. EDT on April 25, 2011, and unless and until that order is stayed, the clubs are not allowed to refuse to negotiate with you. If they do refuse, you should contact Class Counsel immediately (contact information is listed below.) The NFL must put in place a free agency system that complies with the antitrust laws.

As an owner, I wouldn't find it hard to be in compliance at all. Every FA that called would get an offer - somewhere around 5 years, 250k.

And then a team in your division would offer them 260k. And then another team in your division would offer them 270k. And in the end, they'd be offered something near their market value, and your team wouldn't have any FAs. Unless of course you had an arrangement with the other teams in the league not to offer and more than your 250k - which would probably be illegal in the current situation.

That's the point. What is market value for 2/3 of the players who have been artificially supported by a minimum salary for years?

There is plenty of research that's been done that says minimium wages if anything keep salaries artificially low...i.e. business don't have to compete based on salary but just use an arbitrary base line and state some version of that's what everybody pays for a french fry cook (errr long snapper) in your situation.

 

[Hoosier16]

Entire memo sent to NFL Players this afternoon

4. I am not under contract and am currently a free agent, does this mean I can shop my services to teams right now?

Unless and until Judge Nelson or the Court of Appeals issues another order, the lockout has been ordered to end immediately, and if the NFL does not comply, it would be in contempt of the court order. So, until you hear otherwise, if you are not under contract, Class Counsel believes that you and your agent can contact teams and shop your services to the clubs. Judge Nelson's order is in effect as of 6 p.m. EDT on April 25, 2011, and unless and until that order is stayed, the clubs are not allowed to refuse to negotiate with you. If they do refuse, you should contact Class Counsel immediately (contact information is listed below.) The NFL must put in place a free agency system that complies with the antitrust laws.

As an owner, I wouldn't find it hard to be in compliance at all. Every FA that called would get an offer - somewhere around 5 years, 250k.

And then a team in your division would offer them 260k. And then another team in your division would offer them 270k. And in the end, they'd be offered something near their market value, and your team wouldn't have any FAs. Unless of course you had an arrangement with the other teams in the league not to offer and more than your 250k - which would probably be illegal in the current situation.

That's the point. What is market value for 2/3 of the players who have been artificially supported by a minimum salary for years?

There is plenty of research that's been done that says minimium wages if anything keep salaries artificially low...i.e. business don't have to compete based on salary but just use an arbitrary base line and state some version of that's what everybody pays for a french fry cook (errr long snapper) in your situation.

You cannot possibly believe that studies done surrounding $7.00 per hour jobs somehow even remotely applies to $800k positions, do you?

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Hooray for activist judges! An Obama appointee, no doubt.

Hmmmm, I got blasted for referencing the same thing in another thread, lol.She had her mind made up before she even heard arguments, and its was a political and personal decision. However if it brings football, I dont care. But it dont mean it was the right decision though.

On this however, no transactions are allowed to happen until the NFL starts its league year, and the NFL determines the start date with or without the CBA. The judge can force their hand but the league will argue the chaos will prevent them from starting instantly and they will win that.

Lockout will just let them in the building, after clarification, we will know more.

I think we should care though, regardless of whether it brings football.

Then care enough to do some research on labor laws. They clearly favor the players. This idea that Judge Nelson was in the tank for the players because of her political biases is a fantasy. If anything, the ruling for the players who voluntarily disbanded their union and challenged the league's free market restrictions is a conservative ruling.

they clearly did not disband, they were always acting as a union.

legally speaking any of hose actions takes place after the owners clear breach of good faith etc over the last year. This doesn't even make sense as an objection to the ruling...

 

[cobalt_27]

Entire memo sent to NFL Players this afternoon

4. I am not under contract and am currently a free agent, does this mean I can shop my services to teams right now?

Unless and until Judge Nelson or the Court of Appeals issues another order, the lockout has been ordered to end immediately, and if the NFL does not comply, it would be in contempt of the court order. So, until you hear otherwise, if you are not under contract, Class Counsel believes that you and your agent can contact teams and shop your services to the clubs. Judge Nelson's order is in effect as of 6 p.m. EDT on April 25, 2011, and unless and until that order is stayed, the clubs are not allowed to refuse to negotiate with you. If they do refuse, you should contact Class Counsel immediately (contact information is listed below.) The NFL must put in place a free agency system that complies with the antitrust laws.

As an owner, I wouldn't find it hard to be in compliance at all. Every FA that called would get an offer - somewhere around 5 years, 250k.

And then a team in your division would offer them 260k. And then another team in your division would offer them 270k. And in the end, they'd be offered something near their market value, and your team wouldn't have any FAs. Unless of course you had an arrangement with the other teams in the league not to offer and more than your 250k - which would probably be illegal in the current situation.

That's the point. What is market value for 2/3 of the players who have been artificially supported by a minimum salary for years?

Their market value will be determined by the market. It's whatever the highest bidder offers.

Exactly. And how has that worked out elsewhere? In other words, do you suppose the variability or spread that separates the highest-paid athletes and the lowest-paid athletes will grow, diminish, or remain unchanged in an uncapped system?Hint: Brady will make what he makes. Manning will make what he makes. Highly touted FAs will make what they ordinarily will make. Long snappers will not even approach the previous league minimum. Backup linebackers will not make nearly the same multiplier of 100k that they made in 2009. The haves will be the haves (+ some in some cases). The have-nots will be the have-nots (-minus some).

Free market principles at work. I'm sure that's precisely what the players want, so there's no need to negotiate a deal. They'll be delighted to be working within this sort of system.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

The stay is granted until Wednesday. Is this another win for the players?

largely irrelevant to either side. was pretty much assumed, at least in the short run.

 

[coolnerd]

Entire memo sent to NFL Players this afternoon

4. I am not under contract and am currently a free agent, does this mean I can shop my services to teams right now?

Unless and until Judge Nelson or the Court of Appeals issues another order, the lockout has been ordered to end immediately, and if the NFL does not comply, it would be in contempt of the court order. So, until you hear otherwise, if you are not under contract, Class Counsel believes that you and your agent can contact teams and shop your services to the clubs. Judge Nelson's order is in effect as of 6 p.m. EDT on April 25, 2011, and unless and until that order is stayed, the clubs are not allowed to refuse to negotiate with you. If they do refuse, you should contact Class Counsel immediately (contact information is listed below.) The NFL must put in place a free agency system that complies with the antitrust laws.

As an owner, I wouldn't find it hard to be in compliance at all. Every FA that called would get an offer - somewhere around 5 years, 250k.

And then a team in your division would offer them 260k. And then another team in your division would offer them 270k. And in the end, they'd be offered something near their market value, and your team wouldn't have any FAs. Unless of course you had an arrangement with the other teams in the league not to offer and more than your 250k - which would probably be illegal in the current situation.

That's the point. What is market value for 2/3 of the players who have been artificially supported by a minimum salary for years?

There is plenty of research that's been done that says minimium wages if anything keep salaries artificially low...i.e. business don't have to compete based on salary but just use an arbitrary base line and state some version of that's what everybody pays for a french fry cook (errr long snapper) in your situation.

You cannot possibly believe that studies done surrounding $7.00 per hour jobs somehow even remotely applies to $800k positions, do you?

The overriding idea is that because the market is not setting value, then we really don't know what the true value is. Especially, in a field where there are limied people have the skills to do the job (there really are not 1000s of dudes who snap a football with 98plus %accuracy) the chances that market is undervalueing skills is much greater than with the french fry cook.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

Entire memo sent to NFL Players this afternoon

4. I am not under contract and am currently a free agent, does this mean I can shop my services to teams right now?

Unless and until Judge Nelson or the Court of Appeals issues another order, the lockout has been ordered to end immediately, and if the NFL does not comply, it would be in contempt of the court order. So, until you hear otherwise, if you are not under contract, Class Counsel believes that you and your agent can contact teams and shop your services to the clubs. Judge Nelson's order is in effect as of 6 p.m. EDT on April 25, 2011, and unless and until that order is stayed, the clubs are not allowed to refuse to negotiate with you. If they do refuse, you should contact Class Counsel immediately (contact information is listed below.) The NFL must put in place a free agency system that complies with the antitrust laws.

As an owner, I wouldn't find it hard to be in compliance at all. Every FA that called would get an offer - somewhere around 5 years, 250k.

And then a team in your division would offer them 260k. And then another team in your division would offer them 270k. And in the end, they'd be offered something near their market value, and your team wouldn't have any FAs. Unless of course you had an arrangement with the other teams in the league not to offer and more than your 250k - which would probably be illegal in the current situation.

That's the point. What is market value for 2/3 of the players who have been artificially supported by a minimum salary for years?

Dunno. I don't doubt that some salaries were higher that the market might support. But other salaries might surprise you I think. Just because a lot of guys were at or near the league min, doesn't mean they would have been a lot lower than that without the requirement.And of course, the other side of that is that some of the FAs (the good ones) are going to command at least as much as they did before. Your $250k ain't gonna hold up very well.

 

[FUBAR]

Exactly. And how has that worked out elsewhere? In other words, do you suppose the variability or spread that separates the highest-paid athletes and the lowest-paid athletes will grow, diminish, or remain unchanged in an uncapped system?Hint: Brady will make what he makes. Manning will make what he makes. Highly touted FAs will make what they ordinarily will make. Long snappers will not even approach the previous league minimum. Backup linebackers will not make nearly the same multiplier of 100k that they made in 2009. The haves will be the haves (+ some in some cases). The have-nots will be the have-nots (-minus some).Free market principles at work. I'm sure that's precisely what the players want, so there's no need to negotiate a deal. They'll be delighted to be working within this sort of system.

As you get towards the bottom of the employed players, their talent isn't much better than those left unemployed. My guess is their talent is not $100k better than an unemployed long snapper (or more, and other positions), so a team will no longer audition players and then pay them the minimum, the players desired salaries will become a factor for many teams. In theory, would you rather have a 85 caliber player that will cost you $200k / year or a 83 caliber player that will cost you $100k? Assume he's one of the last guys to make your roster and will see limited playing time.My guess is the young guys will be willing to take less and have a chance to make it big while the older guys are more likely to hold out for more money.