La'el Collins stock just dropped (2 Viewers)

[rockaction]

If I was a GM I would have used a 7th on him simply because how often does a 7th rounder even do something. Teams really over rate their 6th and 7th rd. draft picks.

I really should be an NFL GM the way these bozos miss the boat so often.

And if you burned your 7th round pick and he refused to sign and became a first round pick for another team next year, then what?

Easy answer. He wasn't eligible for the 2016 draft. All I was doing was gambling on a 7th round pick. A hack, a lotto ticket. However this lotto ticket had 1st round talent. Everyone else's lotto ticket is projected 7th round talent and a lot of them don't even make the team. It was the correct move and 32 GMs failed because they think their 7th rounder will magically become Tom Brady thought they'd be answering a deluge of media questions about why they'd drafted a guy sought after by police in the killing of a woman and her baby.

FYP

 

[massraider]

If I was a GM I would have used a 7th on him simply because how often does a 7th rounder even do something. Teams really over rate their 6th and 7th rd. draft picks.

I really should be an NFL GM the way these bozos miss the boat so often.

And if you burned your 7th round pick and he refused to sign and became a first round pick for another team next year, then what?

Easy answer. He wasn't eligible for the 2016 draft. All I was doing was gambling on a 7th round pick. A hack, a lotto ticket. However this lotto ticket had 1st round talent. Everyone else's lotto ticket is projected 7th round talent and a lot of them don't even make the team. It was the correct move and 32 GMs failed because they think their 7th rounder will magically become Tom Brady.

A week ago, they didn't have any info, and he was saying he wouldn't sign.

Maybe killed a pregnant woman, and claims he won't sign? That's enough to take him off my board.

I think there's a good chance that the NFL teams received encouraging news from the police, info they didn't have last week. That's why it makes sense to not draft him, but makes sense a week later, to sign him.

I also believe the threat that they wouldn't sign. By saying that, they get a UDFA deal, which they can replace after two years, rather than three.

If he was drafted in the 7th, you tell the kid, sit out, get drafted in the 1st or 2nd next year, and recoup all that money. You don't gain ANYTHING by signing as a 7th rounder. As a UDFA, you get to the big money a year earlier, and that's worth two years of short money, AND you can pick your team.

The team that drafted him in the 7th round might get a happy kid that plays like a stud for peanuts, but more likely, they get as malcontent that resents them for drafting him, holds out for months, and becomes a distraction. And maybe they draft a guy that had a pregnant woman shot. Something like that has a small chance of being a distraction, believe it or not. A player that may become a good OG (but probably not a LT) might not be worth that risk.

 

[T J]

So getting a lawyer and not talking to cops = guilty? Some of you are scary statists.

Yes. Avoiding police questioning in the murder of your "baby momma" for DAYS does equal guilty.

Of course, that information by itself won't hold up in court...

...but in the court of common sense, he killed that girl or knows darn well who did.

Are you and cstu really this naive? You never talk to the police about something like this without a lawyer. Guilty, innocent. Doesn't matter. The smart move, and your constitutional right, is to lawyer up and not provide info without counsel.

I suppose you could count me, and probably a whole bunch of others, as naive then. If I had nothing to hide, I would have no problem whatsoever talking to police without a lawyer, because what they would hear is the truth and there aren't inconsistencies when you tell the truth - and especially so if I had a verifiable alibi. I think guilty people are the ones who tend to lawyer up right away.

 

[SacramentoBob]

So getting a lawyer and not talking to cops = guilty? Some of you are scary statists.

Yes. Avoiding police questioning in the murder of your "baby momma" for DAYS does equal guilty.

Of course, that information by itself won't hold up in court...

...but in the court of common sense, he killed that girl or knows darn well who did.

Are you and cstu really this naive? You never talk to the police about something like this without a lawyer. Guilty, innocent. Doesn't matter. The smart move, and your constitutional right, is to lawyer up and not provide info without counsel.

I suppose you could count me, and probably a whole bunch of others, as naive then. If I had nothing to hide, I would have no problem whatsoever talking to police without a lawyer, because what they would hear is the truth and there aren't inconsistencies when you tell the truth - and especially so if I had a verifiable alibi. I think guilty people are the ones who tend to lawyer up right away.

lol

 

[massraider]

So getting a lawyer and not talking to cops = guilty? Some of you are scary statists.

Yes. Avoiding police questioning in the murder of your "baby momma" for DAYS does equal guilty.

Of course, that information by itself won't hold up in court...

...but in the court of common sense, he killed that girl or knows darn well who did.

Are you and cstu really this naive? You never talk to the police about something like this without a lawyer. Guilty, innocent. Doesn't matter. The smart move, and your constitutional right, is to lawyer up and not provide info without counsel.

I suppose you could count me, and probably a whole bunch of others, as naive then. If I had nothing to hide, I would have no problem whatsoever talking to police without a lawyer, because what they would hear is the truth and there aren't inconsistencies when you tell the truth - and especially so if I had a verifiable alibi. I think guilty people are the ones who tend to lawyer up right away.

No doubt. That must be why innocent people never get convicted of crimes they didn't commit.

 

[cstu]

So getting a lawyer and not talking to cops = guilty? Some of you are scary statists.

Yes. Avoiding police questioning in the murder of your "baby momma" for DAYS does equal guilty.

Of course, that information by itself won't hold up in court...

...but in the court of common sense, he killed that girl or knows darn well who did.

Are you and cstu really this naive? You never talk to the police about something like this without a lawyer. Guilty, innocent. Doesn't matter. The smart move, and your constitutional right, is to lawyer up and not provide info without counsel.

I suppose you could count me, and probably a whole bunch of others, as naive then. If I had nothing to hide, I would have no problem whatsoever talking to police without a lawyer, because what they would hear is the truth and there aren't inconsistencies when you tell the truth - and especially so if I had a verifiable alibi. I think guilty people are the ones who tend to lawyer up right away.

First of all - famous people rarely go to jail when guilty, so the odds of Collins being wrongfully convicted after talking to the police without a lawyer is near zero.

If I'm him and have *nothing* to do with the murder and know I couldn't be involved then I get on TV everywhere and attack the police for including my name in the investigation. Everyone that knew where I was that night would have been on TV immediately defending me. I would have had a paternity test done immediately after I heard about the murder.

All in all, Collins handled this extremely poorly.

 

[massraider]

All in all, Collins handled this extremely poorly.

Is that why everything is working out so badly for him?

 

[cstu]

All in all, Collins handled this extremely poorly.

Is that why everything is working out so badly for him?

Collins - $1.65 million guaranteed

2014 #10 draft pick Taylor Lewan - $11.5 million guaranteed

 

[massraider]

All in all, Collins handled this extremely poorly.

Is that why everything is working out so badly for him?

Collins - $1.65 million guaranteed

2014 #10 draft pick Taylor Lewan - $11.5 million guaranteed

He wasn't drafted 10th overall because he didn't throw a press conference announcing his innocence. Is that your stance?

 

[massraider]

For Cowboys fans:

https://twitter.com/cowboyz17/status/596515157393612800

 

[Righetti]

From Collins standpoint, why do you do this? Cowboys starting 5 are pretty freaking good aren't they? As far as playing time goes he'll probably hardly get any. But maybe he beats out Leary or something.

I thought he said he wanted to play tackle.. isn't Leary a guard?

 

[cstu]

All in all, Collins handled this extremely poorly.

Is that why everything is working out so badly for him?

Collins - $1.65 million guaranteed

2014 #10 draft pick Taylor Lewan - $11.5 million guaranteed

He wasn't drafted 10th overall because he didn't throw a press conference announcing his innocence. Is that your stance?

No, I'm staying he mishandled it from day one. Had he done these things he'd have been a 1st round pick:

- Got a negative paternity test the Monday before the draft

- Made his case to the media how unfair it was for the police to mention his name. Explain his history with Mills and why he would have no motive to kill her

- Had witnesses that night come out publicly in his defense

 

[massraider]

I think you overrate the affect public statements have on NFL teams' willingness to potentially draft a killer.

I think it's much more likely teams acquired info they, and maybe even the police, didn't have before the draft.

 

[humpback]

Incredible signing by Dallas and things won't be so bad for Collins assuming he stays healthy and plays well he'll make more money in 4 years then if he went as last pick in first round.

Agree with the first part but the second part makes no sense whatsoever. No matter how you slice it the kid lost a boatload of money.

He can re-negotiate his deal after 2 years, and if he dominates he'll get a heck of a lot more guaranteed money than if he had been the last pick in the 1st round.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Were the medical team trying to save the babies life "the Monday before the draft", not sure a paternity test would have been high on the priority list?

So not holding a press conference (like retaining a lawyer) was "proof" that he was guilty, now it is "proof" he mishandled it and otherwise would have gone in the first.

You seem determined to interpret his actions in the worst possible light no matter what, even when shifting the goal posts. I don't get the dark undertow and Moby ****-like obsession with making him wrong, Captain Ahab.

 

[davearm]

All in all, Collins handled this extremely poorly.

Is that why everything is working out so badly for him?

Collins - $1.65 million guaranteed

2014 #10 draft pick Taylor Lewan - $11.5 million guaranteed

He wasn't drafted 10th overall because he didn't throw a press conference announcing his innocence. Is that your stance?

No, I'm staying he mishandled it from day one. Had he done these things he'd have been a 1st round pick:

- Got a negative paternity test the Monday before the draft

- Made his case to the media how unfair it was for the police to mention his name. Explain his history with Mills and why he would have no motive to kill her

- Had witnesses that night come out publicly in his defense

You don't seem to understand how paternity tests work.

The rest, he almost certainly was doing behind the scenes with the only people that matter for his draft stock, the NFL security teams and GMs.

 

[Chaos Commish]

The team that drafted him in the 7th round might get a happy kid that plays like a stud for peanuts, but more likely, they get as malcontent that resents them for drafting him, holds out for months, and becomes a distraction. And maybe they draft a guy that had a pregnant woman shot. Something like that has a small chance of being a distraction, believe it or not. A player that may become a good OG (but probably not a LT) might not be worth that risk.

His threat to hold out and have any team drafting him on day 3 lose his rights so he could re enter the 2016 draft was a couple things: 1. a fact; and 2. common sense every front office understood. Accept at least 3rd round money or going udfa for the above reasons was the best he could make of the situation. I think his people handled this exactly right.

 

[Chaos Commish]

If I was a GM I would have used a 7th on him simply because how often does a 7th rounder even do something. Teams really over rate their 6th and 7th rd. draft picks.

I really should be an NFL GM the way these bozos miss the boat so often.

And if you burned your 7th round pick and he refused to sign and became a first round pick for another team next year, then what?

Easy answer. He wasn't eligible for the 2016 draft. All I was doing was gambling on a 7th round pick. A hack, a lotto ticket. However this lotto ticket had 1st round talent. Everyone else's lotto ticket is projected 7th round talent and a lot of them don't even make the team. It was the correct move and 32 GMs failed because they think their 7th rounder will magically become Tom Brady.

He wasn't eligible for the 2016 draft as an undrafted free agent. Had he been drafted and refused to sign, the team drafting him loses his rights and like Bo Jackson he could have entered the 2016 draft. His threat not to sign with a 7th round lottery ticket gamble pick was smart business. After day 3 he needed to go udfa. It was better than being drafted.

 

[Chaos Commish]

From Collins standpoint, why do you do this? Cowboys starting 5 are pretty freaking good aren't they? As far as playing time goes he'll probably hardly get any. But maybe he beats out Leary or something.

I thought he said he wanted to play tackle.. isn't Leary a guard?

Free isn't all that either. Jermey Parnell, gone in free agency, was a better RT than Free last year.

 

[Frostillicus]

If all it took was taking a paternity test to get signed, he was an idiot for not getting one right after the murder. Could have been a 1st round pick.

do you really think you have all the info?

Of course not, but this whole string of events has been ridiculous for an innocent man.

I thought it was more likely than not that he killed her?

 

[GregR]

I would have drafted him with my last pick, but not signed him unless he was cleared by police. I would have been comfortable dealing with the media in that scenario. If he went back into the draft, so be it... worth the gamble.

 

[One]

I would have drafted him with my last pick, but not signed him unless he was cleared by police. I would have been comfortable dealing with the media in that scenario. If he went back into the draft, so be it... worth the gamble.

Exactly, why one of the worst teams in the NFL didn't take a swing, I will never know.

 

[cstu]

If all it took was taking a paternity test to get signed, he was an idiot for not getting one right after the murder. Could have been a 1st round pick.

do you really think you have all the info?

Of course not, but this whole string of events has been ridiculous for an innocent man.

I thought it was more likely than not that he killed her?

I'm not saying he's innocent. There is still an unsolved double murder and no arrests have been made.

By the way, the Cowboys only gave Collins a $21,000 signing bonus - their ###es are covered if he's arrested.

 

[sspunisher]

Not sure if I'm misunderstanding if anyone wants to clarify. Did he pretty much go un-drafted because he gave teams up until the 3rd round to take him? I just assumed it was a league-wide behind closed doors thing where they all agreed not to touch him for the league's integrity.

 

[massraider]

Not sure if I'm misunderstanding if anyone wants to clarify. Did he pretty much go un-drafted because he gave teams up until the 3rd round to take him? I just assumed it was a league-wide behind closed doors thing where they all agreed not to touch him for the league's integrity.

Well, his people said if he went after the 3rd, he wouldn't sign. There were a lot of reasons not to take him at all, let alone the first three rounds.

I don't believe for a second the league all made a decision together.

 

[GregR]

I would have drafted him with my last pick, but not signed him unless he was cleared by police. I would have been comfortable dealing with the media in that scenario. If he went back into the draft, so be it... worth the gamble.

By the way, the talk with the media would be repeated variations of this:

We won't sign him unless he's cleared by the authorities.

If no one drafted him, my team only signs him as a UDFA if he is cleared by the authorities. If we draft him, we still only sign him if he his cleared by the authorities.

Our handling of this isn't impacted by whether he's drafted or not. We won't sign him either way while his legal situation is unclear.

What does change with drafting him is that if he is cleared by the authorities, we are the only team who can negotiate with him. We felt that was worth a 7th round pick.

 

[mr roboto]

Is this 'I'm not guilty so I'll gladly talk to the cops without a lawyer, only guilty people lawyer up' shtick or are some of you really truly that foolish?

 

[lod01]

I would have drafted him with my last pick, but not signed him unless he was cleared by police. I would have been comfortable dealing with the media in that scenario. If he went back into the draft, so be it... worth the gamble.

Exactly, why one of the worst teams in the NFL didn't take a swing, I will never know.

That's one of the reasons these teams are the worst teams in the league.

 

[fasteddie_21]

A whole lotta butt-hurt and dumb the last few pages. Oof.

 

[Donnybrook]

Incredible signing by Dallas and things won't be so bad for Collins assuming he stays healthy and plays well he'll make more money in 4 years then if he went as last pick in first round.

Agree with the first part but the second part makes no sense whatsoever. No matter how you slice it the kid lost a boatload of money.

He can re-negotiate his deal after 2 years, and if he dominates he'll get a heck of a lot more guaranteed money than if he had been the last pick in the 1st round.

If he dominates sure but what if he merely a solid starter. Dallas might not want to break up the current line's chemistry - if it ain't broke don't fix it. I don't think it is likely but it wouldn't shock me if the Cowboys try to take advantage of his low salary and try to stash him on IR year one. The Cowboys are heavily invested in their star players. They are not going to negotiate contracts early if they can avoid it.

 

[Max Power]

Give Collins to Jax and all is fair in this world. Come on Commish... make it happen.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I just can't understand why teams like the Bills, Jags, Phins, Cowboys wouldn't just spend a 7th on him considering they were calling him anyway practically the very next day. He couldn't even be Mr. Irrelevant? Whoever picked him could have held his rights for quite a while until his legal issues went one way or another. It's bizarre thinking by all 32 teams.

 

[Deamon]

If all it took was taking a paternity test to get signed, he was an idiot for not getting one right after the murder. Could have been a 1st round pick.

do you really think you have all the info?

Of course not, but this whole string of events has been ridiculous for an innocent man.

I thought it was more likely than not that he killed her?

I'm not saying he's innocent. There is still an unsolved double murder and no arrests have been made.

By the way, the Cowboys only gave Collins a $21,000 signing bonus - their ###es are covered if he's arrested.

I thought you said he was for sure guilty

 

[cstu]

I'm not saying he's innocent. There is still an unsolved double murder and no arrests have been made.

By the way, the Cowboys only gave Collins a $21,000 signing bonus - their ###es are covered if he's arrested.

I thought you said he was for sure guilty

I never once said he was guilty, only that I suspected him and was willing to bet on it.

 

[Deamon]

I'm not saying he's innocent. There is still an unsolved double murder and no arrests have been made.

By the way, the Cowboys only gave Collins a $21,000 signing bonus - their ###es are covered if he's arrested.

I thought you said he was for sure guilty

I never once said he was guilty, only that I suspected him and was willing to bet on it.

You didn't say he was guilty, you said there was a MUCH higher then 90% chance that he was guilty

- "I don't think he has anywhere near a 10% chance of not being charged."

 

[SproutDaddy]

 

[carverlee]

If all it took was taking a paternity test to get signed, he was an idiot for not getting one right after the murder. Could have been a 1st round pick.

do you really think you have all the info?

Of course not, but this whole string of events has been ridiculous for an innocent man.

I thought it was more likely than not that he killed her?

I'm not saying he's innocent. There is still an unsolved double murder and no arrests have been made.

By the way, the Cowboys only gave Collins a $21,000 signing bonus - their ###es are covered if he's arrested.

I thought you said he was for sure guilty

One thing is for certain. He is a Killer

steal for the Cowboys.

 

[cstu]

I'm not saying he's innocent. There is still an unsolved double murder and no arrests have been made.

By the way, the Cowboys only gave Collins a $21,000 signing bonus - their ###es are covered if he's arrested.

I thought you said he was for sure guilty

I never once said he was guilty, only that I suspected him and was willing to bet on it.

You didn't say he was guilty, you said there was a MUCH higher then 90% chance that he was guilty

- "I don't think he has anywhere near a 10% chance of not being charged."

You're reading that wrong - that says his odds of getting charged are higher than 10%...and they still are.

 

[Deamon]

I'm not saying he's innocent. There is still an unsolved double murder and no arrests have been made.

By the way, the Cowboys only gave Collins a $21,000 signing bonus - their ###es are covered if he's arrested.

I thought you said he was for sure guilty

I never once said he was guilty, only that I suspected him and was willing to bet on it.

You didn't say he was guilty, you said there was a MUCH higher then 90% chance that he was guilty

- "I don't think he has anywhere near a 10% chance of not being charged."

You're reading that wrong - that says his odds of getting charged are higher than 10%...and they still are.

how is that being read wrong? That says his odds of NOT being charged are much lower then 10%.... no?

 

[Freelove]

I'm not saying he's innocent. There is still an unsolved double murder and no arrests have been made.

By the way, the Cowboys only gave Collins a $21,000 signing bonus - their ###es are covered if he's arrested.

I thought you said he was for sure guilty

I never once said he was guilty, only that I suspected him and was willing to bet on it.

You didn't say he was guilty, you said there was a MUCH higher then 90% chance that he was guilty- "I don't think he has anywhere near a 10% chance of not being charged."

You're reading that wrong - that says his odds of getting charged are higher than 10%...and they still are.

how is that being read wrong? That says his odds of NOT being charged are much lower then 10%.... no?

It says *not anywhere near*, which is ambiguous, and it says *charged* rather than *guilty*.It's all a little goofy anyway, but I think you're reading your preconcptions into his words just a bit.

 

[massraider]

I'm not saying he's innocent. There is still an unsolved double murder and no arrests have been made.

By the way, the Cowboys only gave Collins a $21,000 signing bonus - their ###es are covered if he's arrested.

I thought you said he was for sure guilty

I never once said he was guilty, only that I suspected him and was willing to bet on it.

You didn't say he was guilty, you said there was a MUCH higher then 90% chance that he was guilty- "I don't think he has anywhere near a 10% chance of not being charged."

You're reading that wrong - that says his odds of getting charged are higher than 10%...and they still are.

how is that being read wrong? That says his odds of NOT being charged are much lower then 10%.... no?

It says *not anywhere near*, which is ambiguous, and it says *charged* rather than *guilty*.It's all a little goofy anyway, but I think you're reading your preconcptions into his words just a bit.

Gosh, I find that hard to believe.

 

[humpback]

Incredible signing by Dallas and things won't be so bad for Collins assuming he stays healthy and plays well he'll make more money in 4 years then if he went as last pick in first round.

Agree with the first part but the second part makes no sense whatsoever. No matter how you slice it the kid lost a boatload of money.

He can re-negotiate his deal after 2 years, and if he dominates he'll get a heck of a lot more guaranteed money than if he had been the last pick in the 1st round.

If he dominates sure but what if he merely a solid starter. Dallas might not want to break up the current line's chemistry - if it ain't broke don't fix it. I don't think it is likely but it wouldn't shock me if the Cowboys try to take advantage of his low salary and try to stash him on IR year one. The Cowboys are heavily invested in their star players. They are not going to negotiate contracts early if they can avoid it.

Sure, if he isn't great, then he likely won't get a huge next deal and this would have cost him a lot of money. I'm just pointing out that there are ways you "can slice it" where it could actually work out in his favor, even if it isn't likely. I don't know the details of the "renegotiating" clause, not sure how that can be triggered.

You also have to consider that he may be overpaid by his next team if this Dallas O-line ends up being as good as advertised- Jermy Parnell just signed a 5 year, $32mil deal, and he's only started a handful of games in his entire career.

 

[cstu]

I'm not saying he's innocent. There is still an unsolved double murder and no arrests have been made.

By the way, the Cowboys only gave Collins a $21,000 signing bonus - their ###es are covered if he's arrested.

I thought you said he was for sure guilty

I never once said he was guilty, only that I suspected him and was willing to bet on it.

You didn't say he was guilty, you said there was a MUCH higher then 90% chance that he was guilty

- "I don't think he has anywhere near a 10% chance of not being charged."

You're reading that wrong - that says his odds of getting charged are higher than 10%...and they still are.

how is that being read wrong? That says his odds of NOT being charged are much lower then 10%.... no?

You're reading it out of context, it was in response to someone saying if there was less than 10% chance of him being charged a team would draft him. I was saying that his odds were higher than that.

 

[Deamon]

I'm not saying he's innocent. There is still an unsolved double murder and no arrests have been made.

By the way, the Cowboys only gave Collins a $21,000 signing bonus - their ###es are covered if he's arrested.

I thought you said he was for sure guilty

I never once said he was guilty, only that I suspected him and was willing to bet on it.

You didn't say he was guilty, you said there was a MUCH higher then 90% chance that he was guilty

- "I don't think he has anywhere near a 10% chance of not being charged."

You're reading that wrong - that says his odds of getting charged are higher than 10%...and they still are.

how is that being read wrong? That says his odds of NOT being charged are much lower then 10%.... no?

You're reading it out of context, it was in response to someone saying if there was less than 10% chance of him being charged a team would draft him. I was saying that his odds were higher than that.

I think you're back peddling but ok. If you read what the person wrote, they wrote if he has even a 10% chance of NOT being charged..... maybe you read it as less then a 10% chance of BEING charged. Big difference.

The poster said a team should take him even if the chances of his innocence are extremely low at 10%, which you said that was your point, you didn't think it was even close to 10% chance he "WASN"T charged". You are now changing it to his odds were higher then 10% of BEING charged. It's not difficult.

 

[SacramentoBob]

They find any evidence yet?

 

[werdnoynek]

Detective cstu sure botched this case...

 

[cstu]

Detective cstu sure botched this case...

They arrested someone?

 

[Faust]

Now we have an idea how much money La'el Collins lost

 

[cstu]

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/05/15/lael-collins-nfl-draft-dallas-cowboys-murder-investigation/

According to La’el Collins, his name was mentioned by Mills’ 10-year-old daughter during an interview with police. (The Baton Rouge P.D. declined to confirm this detail.) Collins, 21, says he had a very brief relationship with Mills, and that she suspected the baby she was carrying might be his. Collins says he exchanged text messages with her, in March, about taking a paternity test after the baby was born.

He signs a three-year, fully guaranteed deal worth $1.7 million, not counting the possibilities of a high tender or performance bonuses. Still, Collins has lost nearly $15 million because of a murder case in which he hasn’t been deemed a suspect or a person of interest.

Makes a lot of sense to avoid the media with $15M to lose.

 

[massraider]

Too bad he didn't have you advising him. Although maybe he would want to be around people that didnt know he was a murderer. How's the investigation going, by the way? Any more clues you have all figured out?