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Lamar Miller, 2016, Infinity and beyond (2 Viewers)

by Larry Hartstein | CBSSports.com
(07:35 pm ET) Dolphins coach Joe Philbin said he used running back Daniel Thomas over Lamar Miller in the second half of Monday's loss to New Orleans because he wanted Thomas in pass protection.

"It was a little more pass protection-related than anything," Philbin told the Palm Beach Post. "We didn't have a lot of rhythm and balance. We couldn't afford to really at that stage of the game. It was nothing Lamar did or didn't do."

Thomas is averaging 2.8 yards per carry after rushing four times for 5 yards against the Saints. Miller averages 4.6 yards per carry. But Philbin defended Thomas, saying Miller "had better opportunities and more room to run" against the Saints.

 
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I decided to trade Miller away today. I don't like (or understand) the usage here. I do think he's a much better option though. I'll be following to see if I made a mistake by trading him.

 
so it was all Thomas' fault

Daniel Thomas was a team killer in last Monday night's blowout loss to the Saints, repeatedly getting dumped on short-yardage runs and managing five yards on four carries. The Dolphins abandoned the run despite Lamar Miller's early-game dominance

 
I am kinda bullish on Miller, as I think he has the talent to succeed in the right scheme. Not sure if it's happening this year though.

If anyone cares, I am close to getting Vernon Davis/Blackmon for Heath Miller/Lamar Miller. Guy needs an RB2 and has Cameron in a PPR league.

 
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MCguidance said:
I am kinda bullish on Miller, as I think he has the talent to succeed in the right scheme. Not sure if it's happening this year though.

If anyone cares, I am close to getting Vernon Davis/Blackmon for Heath/Miller. Guy needs an RB2 and has Cameron in a PPR league.
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You're getting vernon Davis and Blackmon for Heath miller?? That's awesome!

 
rickyg said:
MCguidance said:
I am kinda bullish on Miller, as I think he has the talent to succeed in the right scheme. Not sure if it's happening this year though.

If anyone cares, I am close to getting Vernon Davis/Blackmon for Heath/Miller. Guy needs an RB2 and has Cameron in a PPR league.
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You're getting vernon Davis and Blackmon for Heath miller?? That's awesome!
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Ha, fixed.

Not sure what his value is at this point. I guess it's mid range RB2, but I really feel like if they let this guy run and utilized him a bit differently, he'd put up decent numbers. But, I'm not an NFL coach nor pretend to be, so there's always that.

 
miller was a throw in in a mega deal to get megatron

0.5ppr, i gave miller, cameron, thomkins, i got megatron, witten, tavon

i think miller could be a very good asset if he were ever to become a 20 touch back... but i'm not sure when this season that will finally take place.... felt i had to sell relatively high after the monday night performance

 
Another frustrating day of limited touches. I was watching in a bar, so didn't focus on this game completely, but every time I looked, he was in, but he wasn't part of the game plan. The Dolphins just don't run it very much and Tannehill doesn't use the RBs in the passing game very much. When he leads with 7 carries and that's 3 times more than any other player, that's just not much running in a game that wasn't out of hand. He got majority of his carries early and they got stuffed. The OC pretty much abandoned the run after the 1st Q.

 
jbz said:
Another frustrating day of limited touches. I was watching in a bar, so didn't focus on this game completely, but every time I looked, he was in, but he wasn't part of the game plan. The Dolphins just don't run it very much and Tannehill doesn't use the RBs in the passing game very much. When he leads with 7 carries and that's 3 times more than any other player, that's just not much running in a game that wasn't out of hand. He got majority of his carries early and they got stuffed. The OC pretty much abandoned the run after the 1st Q.
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miller will post rb2 numbers against weak run d's... but against good defenses i dont think you can start him because as a team miami really cant run the ball well

 
I was starting to regret my trade I made earlier in the year when I shipped off Miller for White. Especially because Roddy still hasn't gotten to form. But Miller just doesn't seem like he can get anything going. Their run blocking just doesn't look right. Plus it doesn't help that they keep using Thomas for some reason.

 
Ghost Rider said:
I knew this guy was overrated and overvalued, but I honestly didn't think he would be this bad.
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It's not Miller.

It's what's in front of him...and the shmuck of a OC they have.

They are not commited to the run......at all.

The kid played well vs the Colts, Chewed up the Saints (yet they went away from it completely far too early), and made zero commitment to get him the ball yesterday.

The Dolphins are the worst screen team in the league right now., Tannehill does not utilize his safety valve receivers....at all.

Miller had a 49 yard scamper vs Atlanta......they never went back to him.

Lamar Miller is not the issue.....it is his situation that was over valued.

The Fins better figure out how to get him the ball or they are not sniffing the playoffs. You can't be one dimensonal and win in the NFL. Unless you have Dan Marino.

Even the Broncos.....run the ball and use Moreno brilliantly in the passing game.

This coaching staff's insistence on trotting out Daniel Thomas is beyond absurd at this point.

I was at the game yesterday...practically at field level (4 rows up on the 45 yd line) our team is brutal with it's play calling. And Tannehill is seriously responsable for half of this teams sacks allowed. He refused to dump off....or move out of the pocket to throw the ball away. His internal clock is non-exsistent.

When you have a playmaker like him.....you design plays to get him the ball. The Dolphins have not done that....at all for him.

It's a shame.

Lamar Miller has oodles of talent. His situation though......looks bleak at the moment. But on the bright side....he only has Daniel Thomas behind him.....no competition at all.

It will be interesting to see how they respond after the bye week vs Buffalo.

I can tell you this fact......the local media and the fans are pounding the table about the lack of action for Lamar Miller and how mystifyed they are with that decision.....everytime DT trotted on the field there was a collective groan by the fans. It is painfully obvious how bad he is to everyone......except this coaching staff.

And if Tannehill does not learn how to get the ball out....all this will not matter.

 
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Oodles of talent < > RBBC w/ Daniel Thomas

Oodles of talent < > under 50 YFS / game

Not saying it's a great situation; clearly it sucks. But Miller still doesn't run with any power, and that's a death sentence as far as being fully featured in the NFL.

 
Losing certainly helps the case for change...so hopefully the change they make is committing more to the run and screens to miller.

 
Coeur de Lion said:
Oodles of talent < > RBBC w/ Daniel Thomas

Oodles of talent < > under 50 YFS / game

Not saying it's a great situation; clearly it sucks. But Miller still doesn't run with any power, and that's a death sentence as far as being fully featured in the NFL.
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YOu just think the coaches are right then....your take.

Coaches are not always right.....we all know that. The RBBC is absurd at this point.....come on. Look at their numbers side by side. Hell watch the games.

Jamal Charles runs with power?

Darren Sproles runs with power?

The new soon to be darling in Arizona (I love that kid for the recrod) Andre Ellington runs with power?

Nope, nope, and nope.

All three catch the ball well, have lighting speed and know how to make big plays with a crease.

Lamar Miller is the same mold as those three backs.

Agree...disagree...I don't care. But his situation right now is dictating is performance.....not his talent.

 
Tannehill is mystifying. That play he made on 4th down to keep that last drive alive was great (scrambling to his left and then throwing downfield for the 1st), but then after a spike on 1st, he looked like a deer in the headlights on 2nd down and took a sack which in effect made the eventual FG attempt that much harder (and it was missed).

 
Sproles isn't featured at all except in the passing game. He also has more lateral movement ability than Lamar Miller can even dream of having.

Did you really just compare Lamar freaking Miller to Jamaal Charles? If you did, Charles runs through arm tackles all the time. And has twice the explosiveness and three times the wiggle.

Lamar Miller is good at running fast in a straight line. All of the other stuff that goes into making a good NFL RB not so much. It's exactly why he lasted until the 4th round of the NFL draft.

 
Ghost Rider said:
Tannehill is mystifying. That play he made on 4th down to keep that last drive alive was great (scrambling to his left and then throwing downfield for the 1st), but then after a spike on 1st, he looked like a deer in the headlights on 2nd down and took a sack which in effect made the eventual FG attempt that much harder (and it was missed).
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To be expected from a dude who was playing WR in college three years ago IMO. Physically he's got the goods, but he's still learning how to play the position.

 
It's part Sherman's crappy gameplanning, part run blocking and part Miller that's the issue. Kid just can't get any extra yards. There was a play on the first drive where it was 3rd and short and miller got to the outside and tried to smash through and get the first but a Ravens player was pulling his jersey and he couldn't even break through that.

That being said, he looked great vs the Saints and was lowering his pads and finishing runs. Mike Sherman thinks he's coaching in the arena league and he's really been hanging Tannehill out to dry making him throw 40 times a game with a line that can't pass block. It's been a frustrating past 2 games watching this offense.

 
FWIW, I just saw Miller played 45 snaps and Thomas played 11. This makes me feel a tiny bit better but still well below feeling good about Miller.

With how little they run, you'd think Tannehill would potentially be a viable QB1. just looked and it appears they are split 182 pass attempts to 95 rush attempts. Seems crazy since the games have been close other than vs New Orleans.

From what I have seen, I definitely agree with the people saying he does not seem to run through tackles or run very physical. I still think he'd be a good play if he was getting 15+ touches on a regular basis though.

 
Coeur de Lion said:
Sproles isn't featured at all except in the passing game. He also has more lateral movement ability than Lamar Miller can even dream of having.

Did you really just compare Lamar freaking Miller to Jamaal Charles? If you did, Charles runs through arm tackles all the time. And has twice the explosiveness and three times the wiggle.

Lamar Miller is good at running fast in a straight line. All of the other stuff that goes into making a good NFL RB not so much. It's exactly why he lasted until the 4th round of the NFL draft.
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Not saying Lamar is better than Charles . But correct me if I am wrong....Jamal Charles was drafted in the 3rd round with the same concerns as Miller......also Miller was coming off a pretty serious shoulder surgery right before the draft and was considered by many to be the 2-3 best RB after Richardson.Your contention is Millers talent.....and mine is...his situation does not look great...I think we are both right somewhere in the middle. Lamar has elite speed and burst....given the opportunity he can be a productive RB in the NFL.

A star?.....maybe not...maybe he is too small, maybe he does not run tough enough. I beg to differ on that though. He can be an exciting player if he got enough work.....the Fins are completely mis-managing their gameplan, play calling...etc.

2 losses in a row...and honestly...the Falcons let one slip away. What they are doing long term....will fail.

 
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iamkoza said:
miller was a throw in in a mega deal to get megatron

0.5ppr, i gave miller, cameron, thomkins, i got megatron, witten, tavon

How is this deal even possible? Who with half a brain cell would ship mega for that? and to include witten.

i think miller could be a very good asset if he were ever to become a 20 touch back... but i'm not sure when this season that will finally take place.... felt i had to sell relatively high after the monday night performance
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MoveToSkypager said:
Homers should at least warn people they are homers before their post, so new people know what's up.
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Moronic post. I have been giving great insight for years here on the Dolphins. Take it or leave it....I could care less.Homers insight is what used to make the SP the place to get some great information.....till it became a cess pool of "I know more than you" and " I am totally right and no one will tell me otherwise" posts.

I very well may be wrong...but it's not like they are feeding on a regular basis so we can really see what we got. But when he has been fed this year...he has produced.

This team is mis-managing their talent right now. It takes more than talent....you gotta have the right leadership and this staff has started to show it's flaws. The hall pass has expired.

Start showing you can manage game day.....the last 2 games they are failing on many levels.

 
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Todem, just stop man. Don't play the "I know more than the coaches" and "they're losing because they're not giving the ball to _________" cards. You're much better than that.

 
Coeur de Lion said:
Todem, just stop man. Don't play the "I know more than the coaches" and "they're losing because they're not giving the ball to _________" cards. You're much better than that.
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I know...it is really frustrating though to watch this. Because this kid just needs more reps. I am frustrated because they are force feeding the pass ad nausea instead of calling a sound gameplan.

It is rampant down here on the airwaves, beat writers, former players with tons more credibility than me. They are seeing inept coaching right now.

Hey like I said...maybe I am wrong. And you know me.....I will eat the crow like a man. But please for the love of god....run the ball 20 times.....try it on for size.

Otherwise this team will not win another game doing what they have the last two weeks. The Saints game was an indictment of this. Miller was shredding them and they panicked like high school coaches....and went away from what was working. The Saints could not stop the run.

 
Todem knows Mia. That being questioned is beyond silly.

Yes, homers like him are what make the SP great. I've never known Todem to be bias. Excitable, sure. Not bias though.

 
Brother, they're 3-2 with losses in the dome vs NO and to the defending Super Bowl champs. They're a young team and they're not gonna win every game. The coaches have done pretty well overall IMO all things considered. Sports talk in ANY city after a loss is absurd.

 
Todem said:
Coeur de Lion said:
Sproles isn't featured at all except in the passing game. He also has more lateral movement ability than Lamar Miller can even dream of having.

Did you really just compare Lamar freaking Miller to Jamaal Charles? If you did, Charles runs through arm tackles all the time. And has twice the explosiveness and three times the wiggle.

Lamar Miller is good at running fast in a straight line. All of the other stuff that goes into making a good NFL RB not so much. It's exactly why he lasted until the 4th round of the NFL draft.
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Not saying Lamar is better than Charles . But correct me if I am wrong....Jamal Charles was drafted in the 3rd round with the same concerns as Miller......also Miller was coming off a pretty serious shoulder surgery right before the draft and was considered by many to be the 2-3 best RB after Richardson.Your contention is Millers talent.....and mine is...his situation does not look great...I think we are both right somewhere in the middle. Lamar has elite speed and burst....given the opportunity he can be a productive RB in the NFL.

A star?.....maybe not...maybe he is too small, maybe he does not run tough enough. I beg to differ on that though. He can be an exciting player if he got enough work.....the Fins are completely mis-managing their gameplan, play calling...etc.

2 losses in a row...and honestly...the Falcons let one slip away. What they are doing long term....will fail.
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Size was the issue with Charles. He didn't look the 200 lbs he was listed as in college(still doesn't). I think Charles has put the rest the size concern with his ability to run around and though tacklers and show up every Sunday. Size has never been a concern for Miller. I'd pump my brakes saying he has elite burst too. He has elite burst when he can just run straight. Make him change direction or touch him and his burst barely reaches average.

I think Miller is a nice piece to have as a COP back, but if they still don't trust him in pass protection, can he even be that? Silly me, I thought Thomas as sucky as he is, he would have taken the lead by now. I was wrong obviously. However, the bottom line is, if Miller were a baller, he'd be getting the ball more especially since there is nothing but Thomas standing in his way.

 
Todem said:
MoveToSkypager said:
Homers should at least warn people they are homers before their post, so new people know what's up.
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Moronic post. I have been giving great insight for years here on the Dolphins. Take it or leave it....I could care less.Homers insight is what used to make the SP the place to get some great information.....till it became a cess pool of "I know more than you" and " I am totally right and no one will tell me otherwise" posts.

I very well may be wrong...but it's not like they are feeding on a regular basis so we can really see what we got. But when he has been fed this year...he has produced.

This team is mis-managing their talent right now. It takes more than talent....you gotta have the right leadership and this staff has started to show it's flaws. The hall pass has expired.

Start showing you can manage game day.....the last 2 games they are failing on many levels.
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You could care less? How much?

I don't give a #### about what you thought this messageboard used to be. I think your posts on the Dolphins have been mediocre, when I can wade though the bull#### sunshine and find something that has a 50/50 shot at being objective. But a conversation on a Dolphin from University of Miami? You really should sit these out, but I know you can't control yourself.

 
I'm with Todem here, the homer take has long been a benefit here. Some are blind homers, but they are pretty easy to pick out, and disregard if you so choose. The realistic and dialed in homers can offer some really valuable insight though, and I have long enjoyed reading some of the info they can provide.

As far as Miller, whether you buy in with him or not, there is no denying Miami isn't giving the run much of a chance. Whether that is due to a lack of faith in him on the part of the coaching staff, or just them deciding that chucking it around the entire second half has them 3-2, doesn't much matter... it's holding true. It's a bummer, because I do think Miller could be a real weapon if he was used a little more creatively, especially in the passing game. His speed could be scary in the screen game, or if Tannehill would check it down on some of these plays that he keeps forcing down field. All that said, the nay's have it so far... he's been a big disappointment. I'm holding, going down with the ship, because I still believe he could put up some big games if used a bit more. Though it is getting harder and harder to keep telling myself I know something that Philbin and co. don't.

 
Todem said:
Coeur de Lion said:
Oodles of talent < > RBBC w/ Daniel Thomas

Oodles of talent < > under 50 YFS / game

Not saying it's a great situation; clearly it sucks. But Miller still doesn't run with any power, and that's a death sentence as far as being fully featured in the NFL.
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YOu just think the coaches are right then....your take.

Coaches are not always right.....we all know that. The RBBC is absurd at this point.....come on. Look at their numbers side by side. Hell watch the games.

Jamal Charles runs with power?

Darren Sproles runs with power?

The new soon to be darling in Arizona (I love that kid for the recrod) Andre Ellington runs with power?

Nope, nope, and nope.

All three catch the ball well, have lighting speed and know how to make big plays with a crease.

Lamar Miller is the same mold as those three backs.

Agree...disagree...I don't care. But his situation right now is dictating is performance.....not his talent.
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Miller is nowhere near the same class as Sproles let alone Charles. Not sure about Ellington.

I think power was the wrong word for Coeur to use, I don't think you need to be able to break tackles like Adrian Peterson to be successful but guys like Charles and Sproles rely on their tremendous vision and balance (which btw Marv Levy, a guy who knows a thing or two about a thing or two, says is the most important talent for a RB and not something that can be taught) and I am not sure that Miller has demonstrated much on either of those fronts. He may be a nice back in time but he may also be the next Trung Candidate. He certainly isn't a "buy" and is close to an "avoid" for this season.

 
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Trung Candidate......wow have not heard that name...in forever. For good reason too. LOL.

Well..time will tell. Like it always does.

 
Tatum Bell behind a poor line is what I see.

Call it what you will, the guy goes down the first time anyone gets a hand on him.

 
Unless the coaches make some changes coming out of the bye, he looks like a boom/bust flex play in redraft for the rest of the year, not someone you could remotely trust in your lineup. Like a certain D. Wilson, his weekly output is too dependent on game script, coaching whim, team performance etc. You probably have no choice but to hold him for now, but I'd be moving him if I could, maybe even in keeper/dynasty leagues.

 
Mene said:
I'm with Todem here, the homer take has long been a benefit here. Some are blind homers, but they are pretty easy to pick out, and disregard if you so choose. The realistic and dialed in homers can offer some really valuable insight though, and I have long enjoyed reading some of the info they can provide.

As far as Miller, whether you buy in with him or not, there is no denying Miami isn't giving the run much of a chance. Whether that is due to a lack of faith in him on the part of the coaching staff, or just them deciding that chucking it around the entire second half has them 3-2, doesn't much matter... it's holding true. It's a bummer, because I do think Miller could be a real weapon if he was used a little more creatively, especially in the passing game. His speed could be scary in the screen game, or if Tannehill would check it down on some of these plays that he keeps forcing down field. All that said, the nay's have it so far... he's been a big disappointment. I'm holding, going down with the ship, because I still believe he could put up some big games if used a bit more. Though it is getting harder and harder to keep telling myself I know something that Philbin and co. don't.
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Maybe we just have different definitions of what a homer is I guess.

 
Thinking about trying to make a trade with a desperate owner in bye week trouble. My PThomas for his Miller. Though I'm not sure if I like Miller more. His schedule the ROS is pretty brutal. Pats 2x, Jets, Bengals, Steelers, Panthers, and Bucs. All pretty solid teams against the run.

 
Faust said:
Brian Hartline: Dolphins waiting for RB to step up
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I know this bell has been rung, but how can Lamar step up if he doesn't get the opportunity to? In the games where he's been successful they go away from him. In the games where he's struggling they go away from him.

Even the great RBs have games where they get stopped for no gain or throw up a 20 for 46 dud (LeSean McCoy), but good coaches find other ways to get explosive players the football.

Miller has 32 carries for 150 yards in the first half. That's 4.7 per carry.

Miller has 18 carries for 61 yards in the second half. That's 3.4 per carry.

Maybe the Dolphins should stop abandoning the running game in the second half? They've only been "out" of one game this season. Why won't they hand it off in the second half? Give your explosive RB a chance to break a long run.

Why does he only have 5 receptions on the season?! That's ridiculous.

 
Cream will.rise to the top, Miami will get the oline issues fixed and he will start producing. Buy him now on the bye. He's a mid rb2 the rest of the way. Great time in dynasty to go get him.

Rotoworld)Lamar Miller played on 45-of-59 snaps in Sunday's loss to the Ravens.

Analysis: Miller only saw seven touches in the game, but this usage was extremely encouraging. During the first four weeks of the season, he only played on 50.7 percent of the snaps. The massive bump suggests the Dolphins coaches might finally be starting to trust Miller in more situations, thus putting inferior talent Daniel Thomas (11 snaps) on the back burner. If you can grab Miller for pennies on the dollar right now, we'd pull the trigger.

 
Rankings and projections are high on Miller this week? What has changed, other than the coaches saying they need to run the ball more.

I don't get to watch much dolphins so I only get to see his stat lines.

He's put up plenty of stinkers.

Who's starting Miller today and why?

He has yet to go to infinite or beyond.

 
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