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Larry Walker - HOFer? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter David Yudkin
- Start date
Darth Cheney
Footballguy
I think Walker will be a victim of the steroid, injury bug and Coors Field stigma. I say no......although his numbers are better than I thought they were.
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dparker713
Footballguy
Career .400 OBP and .965 OPS makes him a HOFer in my book when you add in his defense, however the writers probably wont vote him in.
ThisGuy
Ignored by Nipsey
5 truly HOF seasons. He falls just short in the Black/Gray Ink. I'd say no because he did most of his damage in Coors, BUT the guy won the Gold Glove 7 times (proving he really was an all around player) and he is the greatest Canadian to have ever played the game.
I'd root for Larry to get in, but I think he falls into the Hall of Very Good.
I'd root for Larry to get in, but I think he falls into the Hall of Very Good.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I don't have time to stoke the fire here, but Walker is Top 20 all-time in OPS, 7 time Gold Glove winner, and grades out extremely well on the HOF Standards and Monitor scores.
Reality Football
Footballguy
He was on my team for that magical '97 campaign.
But no, he falls short.
But no, he falls short.
lions327
Footballguy
Stats don't always tell the whole story. He benefited from playing in Colorado. I think he was a solid player, but when I think hall of fame, I think great or dominant long term. He just doesn't do it for me. Jim Rice was a feared hitter for a long time and he isn't in. I don't see how Walker can make a hall of fame that Rice can't.
Capella
Footballguy
If he had played for the Yankees, he'd be an automatic first-ballot. For those saying he got fat off of Coors, he did have 168 homers, a .278 avg and a .370 OBP career on the road -- lower than his home numbers, but that's the case for most people.
He's a definite Hall of Famer who won't get in due to where he played. Sort of a shame.
He's a definite Hall of Famer who won't get in due to where he played. Sort of a shame.
NY/NJMFDIVER
Footballguy
Absolutely not. Pure product of Mile High air and a very good player, but Hall of Famer? No way. He had really one strong season(1994) outside of Colorado, no really compelling career stats(aside from a Coors aided 19th in OPS career).
A very good player who could play on my team and he seemed like a good guy to boot, but not a Hall of Famer
A very good player who could play on my team and he seemed like a good guy to boot, but not a Hall of Famer
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
He's not a HOF'er but please check his stats in 1992 and 1993. He was damn good in Montreal. In 1993 he finished 5th in the MVP so I would venture to say he had more than a few very good seasons outside of Colorado. Not a HOF'er, but he's a guy who was well above average in his era.
ThisGuy
Ignored by Nipsey
You're little man's syndrome is fascinating.
ETA: How close are these #'s? 1) .299/.379/.4792) .278/.370/.495#2 is Larry Walker. Both sets are the Away splits for their respective career. #1 has 600 more AB's on the road than Walker.Can anyone guess who #1 is?
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Darth Cheney
Footballguy
I think that his career bears some resemblance to Don Mattingly...... two players who in their time had several dominating seasons but were injured too much to be in the HOF. Before all the Yankee haters chime in....yes Walkers career numbers are better but the combination of steroids, juiced balls and Coors has to be brought into the discussion.
Capella
Footballguy
At least I pay my league fees.You're little man's syndrome is fascinating.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
At least I pay my league fees.You're little man's syndrome is fascinating.
ThisGuy
Ignored by Nipsey
I'll pay my fees. You'll still be inconsequential.At least I pay my league fees.You're little man's syndrome is fascinating.
Capella
Footballguy
Man up and pay your dues. Ridiculous.I'll pay my fees. You'll still be inconsequential.At least I pay my league fees.You're little man's syndrome is fascinating.
HellToupee
Footballguy
The MVP award he one is nice but he was only 5 time All star. Walker's #'s are over inflated from playing in Coors when it was a launching pad.David Yudkin said:
ThisGuy
Ignored by Nipsey
Well since you put it that way...The Check Is In The MailMan up and pay your dues. Ridiculous.I'll pay my fees. You'll still be inconsequential.At least I pay my league fees.You're little man's syndrome is fascinating.
ThisGuy
Ignored by Nipsey
Oh and by the way, since your "arguement" is Walker wouldn't make the HOF because you have a small penis he didn't play in NY, the stats for the "mystery player" above are for Bernie Williams. He had a very similar career on the road and he holds the record for HR's, RBI's and Runs in the Post Season...and he is not a HOF'er. He's playing CF next to Walker in Right of the Hall of the Very Good.Well since you put it that way...The Check Is In The MailMan up and pay your dues. Ridiculous.I'll pay my fees. You'll still be inconsequential.At least I pay my league fees.You're little man's syndrome is fascinating.
NY/NJMFDIVER
Footballguy
If he did play for the Yankees, his name would be Don Mattingly or Paul O'Neill and he would still not be in the Hall of Fame.
NY/NJMFDIVER
Footballguy
You're talking about 1992, and I would exactly toe tag that one for the HOF, even in the pre-inflation era. Hey, there are five oscar nominees each year, no matter performance. If he had a career full of that, he would not be an HOFer.I mean, lets really evaulate what the Hall means these days, Jim Rice and Andre Dawson can't get in, do you really think Walker should go in ahead of those two? Hell, I truly believe Dave Parker belongs in over Walker, and its not a diss on Walker, but his whole shaky candidacy is built on playing in that freak field.
Capella
Footballguy
Oh and by the way, since your "arguement" is Walker wouldn't make the HOF because you have a small penis he didn't play in NY, the stats for the "mystery player" above are for Bernie Williams. He had a very similar career on the road and he holds the record for HR's, RBI's and Runs in the Post Season...and he is not a HOF'er. He's playing CF next to Walker in Right of the Hall of the Very Good.Well since you put it that way...The Check Is In The MailMan up and pay your dues. Ridiculous.I'll pay my fees. You'll still be inconsequential.At least I pay my league fees.You're little man's syndrome is fascinating.
I love how your relate teams you root for into penis size. Like I said, pay your league fees, internet big penis man.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Right 92. But you made it seem like he only had good years in Colorado which is not the truth. Anythime you finish 5th in MVP voting that's a good year. I also said:
in case you missed it.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
ThisGuy
Ignored by Nipsey
WinningOh and by the way, since your "arguement" is Walker wouldn't make the HOF because you have a small penis he didn't play in NY, the stats for the "mystery player" above are for Bernie Williams. He had a very similar career on the road and he holds the record for HR's, RBI's and Runs in the Post Season...and he is not a HOF'er. He's playing CF next to Walker in Right of the Hall of the Very Good.Well since you put it that way...The Check Is In The MailMan up and pay your dues. Ridiculous.I'll pay my fees. You'll still be inconsequential.At least I pay my league fees.You're little man's syndrome is fascinating.
pigskin pimp
Footballguy
Walker is borderline and I don't know if he did enough before the injuries took him out of the game. I definately see the Rice-Walker-Dawson-BWilliams kinda of guys as borderline and needing help.
Walker has stats, but no defining moment to go with those stats. The 96 series as his big hoorah?
Now, I guess, if Larry Walker's penis is more than 7 and half inches, we may have to take that into consideration.
Walker has stats, but no defining moment to go with those stats. The 96 series as his big hoorah?
Now, I guess, if Larry Walker's penis is more than 7 and half inches, we may have to take that into consideration.
Texas Football
Footballguy
In a world where Barry Bonds is going to be the HR King I say we let everyone into the Hall of Fame.
If the HoF puts the bat, his jersey or a syringe that was used to inject the pos, then Walker, Rose, Jeebus and Jordan should be inducted.
Walker has some pretty fine numbers and I would not be upset if he got in. Very doubtful, but I wouldn't complain.
If the HoF puts the bat, his jersey or a syringe that was used to inject the pos, then Walker, Rose, Jeebus and Jordan should be inducted.
Walker has some pretty fine numbers and I would not be upset if he got in. Very doubtful, but I wouldn't complain.
INDIANSummer
Footballguy
Nope.
NY/NJMFDIVER
Footballguy
I did look clear past your defense. 94 was a strange year, the first real period of the offensive boom, but he actually was having a better year on a better team.
I'm of the opinion that injuries are the only thing keeping him out. Elite 5 tool player when healthy.
I see a lot of comparisons to OF exclusions, but shouldn't it to be to RF's? Snider is one of the closest comparables, similar hitters but Walker was a better fielder, and had a better arm while Snider was more durable.
It might come down to whether you penalize him or give him credit (i.e Boggs/Fenway)for taking advantage of Coors moreso than the average player. I think this will probably end up hurting him more with the voting than it actually helped him in his playing days. Also while he was a tremendous hitter, he lacks those catchy milestone numbers which the voters bank on.
I see a lot of comparisons to OF exclusions, but shouldn't it to be to RF's? Snider is one of the closest comparables, similar hitters but Walker was a better fielder, and had a better arm while Snider was more durable.
It might come down to whether you penalize him or give him credit (i.e Boggs/Fenway)for taking advantage of Coors moreso than the average player. I think this will probably end up hurting him more with the voting than it actually helped him in his playing days. Also while he was a tremendous hitter, he lacks those catchy milestone numbers which the voters bank on.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
If people want to discount Walker because of his time in Colorado, certainly that is their perogative. But he also played a lot in Montreal which was not exactly Nirvana for hitters. There are already some players in the HOF that benefitted from playing half of their games in a park that impacted their performance (batters playing in hitter's parks, pitchers pitching in pitcher's parks). Nolan Ryan played a ton in the Astrodome and that didn't matter. Kirby Puckett played in the Homerdome (at least it was back in the day). You can't fault a guy for putting up good numbers where he plays . . .
Anyway, back to Walker. He had one of the greatest seasons ever for a batter not named Bonds or Ruth in 1997 with a 1.172 OPS. He ranked Top 10 in a ton of offense categories 6-8 times. He ended his career with a .313 average and 2160 hits to go along with his Top 20 all-time OPS (higher than even A-Rod). For people saying he only had a few good seasons, he received votes for MVP in 8 different years. He had to do something to merit consideration.
The problem for some people with someone like Walker is that many folks look only at the inflated hitting totals and miss the other elements of the game. Walker won 7 Gold Gloves. His fileding % and range factors were near the top of the league and he had a strong arm. He stole 230 bases. He hit for average. He hit for power. He walked a fair amount. He even ranks Top 25 all-time in HBP.
Apparently being well rounded in a era of juicing will hurt him. Not saying he is a great candidate, but he should at least merit some discussion.
Anyway, back to Walker. He had one of the greatest seasons ever for a batter not named Bonds or Ruth in 1997 with a 1.172 OPS. He ranked Top 10 in a ton of offense categories 6-8 times. He ended his career with a .313 average and 2160 hits to go along with his Top 20 all-time OPS (higher than even A-Rod). For people saying he only had a few good seasons, he received votes for MVP in 8 different years. He had to do something to merit consideration.
The problem for some people with someone like Walker is that many folks look only at the inflated hitting totals and miss the other elements of the game. Walker won 7 Gold Gloves. His fileding % and range factors were near the top of the league and he had a strong arm. He stole 230 bases. He hit for average. He hit for power. He walked a fair amount. He even ranks Top 25 all-time in HBP.
Apparently being well rounded in a era of juicing will hurt him. Not saying he is a great candidate, but he should at least merit some discussion.
very
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Since someone brought up Adjusted OPS+.All time Rank:Walker - 78Rice - 175Parker - 297Murphy 297Dawson - 348shuke said:
Capella
Footballguy
That tells a lot.Since someone brought up Adjusted OPS+.All time Rank:Walker - 78Rice - 175Parker - 297Murphy 297Dawson - 348shuke said:
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
And Kevin Mitchell ranks 63rd all time. Big deal.Since someone brought up Adjusted OPS+.All time Rank:Walker - 78Rice - 175Parker - 297Murphy 297Dawson - 348shuke said:
ThisGuy
Ignored by Nipsey
And Kevin Mitchell ranks 63rd all time. Big deal.Since someone brought up Adjusted OPS+.All time Rank:Walker - 78Rice - 175Parker - 297Murphy 297Dawson - 348shuke said:
:catkilla:13 - Pete Browning (46 career homers)14 - Dave Orr (37 career homers)I'm not a big proponent of Adjust OPS+ for all-time players. Obviously there were different era's of baseball history. I do agree that adjust OPS+ is a useful measure of comparing two players in the same era. Comparing Walker's OPS+ with that of Dave Parker is not a good comparison.That tells a lot.Since someone brought up Adjusted OPS+.All time Rank:Walker - 78Rice - 175Parker - 297Murphy 297Dawson - 348shuke said:
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
Yup, entire resume.
Ok, just making sure because I wouldn't be surprised if it often gets lost in the shuffle with the voters.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Interesting that Murphy and his years of hitting .226, .226, .228, .245., .247, and .252 (as a regular starter not just a few at bats) is more HOF worthy than Walker and his career .313 average.
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
Wow, that statement isn't biased at all. Comparing one guy's worst seasons to another guy's career average?Interesting that Walker and his 16 homers in 143 games in 2003 is more HOF worthy than Murphy and his 398 career homers.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Fine. Compare career averages instead (.313 vs .265). Only two OFs have made the HOF with an average under .280 (Ralph Kiner and Reggie Jackson).Murphy only had more than 90 RBI 5 times playing in 18 seasons. I give him credit for 5 exceptional seasons and 2 other good ones in the mid part of his career. But the early years and the later years he was a below average player let alone a HOF one.
