Larry Walker - HOFer? (1 Viewer)

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

Interesting that Murphy and his years of hitting .226, .226, .228, .245., .247, and .252 (as a regular starter not just a few at bats) is more HOF worthy than Walker and his career .313 average.

Wow, that statement isn't biased at all. Comparing one guy's worst seasons to another guy's career average?Interesting that Walker and his 16 homers in 143 games in 2003 is more HOF worthy than Murphy and his 398 career homers.

Fine. Compare career averages instead (.313 vs .265). Only two OFs have made the HOF with an average under .280 (Ralph Kiner and Reggie Jackson).Murphy only had more than 90 RBI 5 times playing in 18 seasons. I give him credit for 5 exceptional seasons and 2 other good ones in the mid part of his career. But the early years and the later years he was a below average player let alone a HOF one.

For alebit a prohibitively limited window, Dale Murphy was the dominant offensive force in the national league. Now I'll make the point you should have have, he also did it in a hitter friendly park. Now their is a difference between being hitter friendly and just totally skewing any traditional numbers. Larry Walker was for my money, at no point clearly the best player in his league. Even his MVP season, flip flop him and Piazza from Coors to Chavez Ravine, and I think Piazza romps in that MVP race. And lets put the notion of RBIs in perspective, for "only" going over 100 RBI, he did twice lead the league which Walker never did.

 

[HoTnickZ]

Yes but Dale also had a short career that took a nosedive.

All the players shuke categorized merit consideration, but they all also have some glaring holes in each of their cases. When I compare the players however, it just doesn't come out to as lopsided as this poll suggests. Larry had similar hitting success (OPS+, win shares etc), and measures well above avg in any HOF monitor/standards test, plus he was a better fielder and baserunner than all of them.

 

[shuke]

Interesting that Murphy and his years of hitting .226, .226, .228, .245., .247, and .252 (as a regular starter not just a few at bats) is more HOF worthy than Walker and his career .313 average.

Wow, that statement isn't biased at all. Comparing one guy's worst seasons to another guy's career average?Interesting that Walker and his 16 homers in 143 games in 2003 is more HOF worthy than Murphy and his 398 career homers.

Fine. Compare career averages instead (.313 vs .265). Only two OFs have made the HOF with an average under .280 (Ralph Kiner and Reggie Jackson).Murphy only had more than 90 RBI 5 times playing in 18 seasons. I give him credit for 5 exceptional seasons and 2 other good ones in the mid part of his career. But the early years and the later years he was a below average player let alone a HOF one.

I'm not arguing that Murphy should be a HOF. I'm arguing that Murphy's resume is better than Walker's, which leaves them both out of the Hall.

 

[shuke]

Yes but Dale also had a short career that took a nosedive.All the players shuke categorized merit consideration, but they all also have some glaring holes in each of their cases. When I compare the players however, it just doesn't come out to as lopsided as this poll suggests. Larry had similar hitting success (OPS+, win shares etc), and measures well above avg in any HOF monitor/standards test, plus he was a better fielder and baserunner than all of them.

He was a better fielder and baserunner than Dawson?

 

[HoTnickZ]

Yes but Dale also had a short career that took a nosedive.All the players shuke categorized merit consideration, but they all also have some glaring holes in each of their cases. When I compare the players however, it just doesn't come out to as lopsided as this poll suggests. Larry had similar hitting success (OPS+, win shares etc), and measures well above avg in any HOF monitor/standards test, plus he was a better fielder and baserunner than all of them.

He was a better fielder and baserunner than Dawson?

Career wise, yes.

 

[shuke]

Yes but Dale also had a short career that took a nosedive.All the players shuke categorized merit consideration, but they all also have some glaring holes in each of their cases. When I compare the players however, it just doesn't come out to as lopsided as this poll suggests. Larry had similar hitting success (OPS+, win shares etc), and measures well above avg in any HOF monitor/standards test, plus he was a better fielder and baserunner than all of them.

He was a better fielder and baserunner than Dawson?

Career wise, yes.

Well let's start out with the basics here.Career stealsDawson: 314Walker: 230Gold GlovesDawson: 8Walker: 7Whatcha got?

 

[HoTnickZ]

Yes but Dale also had a short career that took a nosedive.All the players shuke categorized merit consideration, but they all also have some glaring holes in each of their cases. When I compare the players however, it just doesn't come out to as lopsided as this poll suggests. Larry had similar hitting success (OPS+, win shares etc), and measures well above avg in any HOF monitor/standards test, plus he was a better fielder and baserunner than all of them.

He was a better fielder and baserunner than Dawson?

Career wise, yes.

Well let's start out with the basics here.Career stealsDawson: 314Walker: 230Gold GlovesDawson: 8Walker: 7Whatcha got?

Dawson, possibly better in prime before knees were shot.Career defensive win shares..

Larry Walker has played in 11,587.0 innings and averaged 3.63 win shares per 1,000 innings during that time.Andre Dawson has a 3.09 rate in 20,115-1/3 innings

In fact amongst other RF's, Walker ranks #1 by this measure (even if you discount for less innings played):

Roberto Clemente has a 2.87 rate in 20,764 innings;Dwight Evans has a 2.82 rate in 18,010 innings;Al Kaline has a 2.70 rate in 20, 851 innings;Paul Waner has a 3.03 rate in 19,899 innings;Reggie Smith has a 3.35 rate in 14,474 innings;Dave Parker has a 2.63 rate in 16,163-2/3 innings; andHank Aaron has a 2.63 rate in 23,951 innings.

And I think it's safe to say baserunning goes beyond just raw stolen base numbers and naturally this can be quite subjective. I'm not sure what metrics are out there to support baserunning other than eyewitness accounts, which Walker was described as a tremendous baserunner, one of the best even by experts. I'm pretty sure Dawson was good as well especially with aggressiveness in his prime, but not sure how much better he was beyond that.