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Le Mans (1 Viewer)

drunken slob said:
The good ole days are gone pal.

Think about the Chaparral's my friend  :nerd:
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I'm not that old but just barely.  My experience with Chaparral's was only with slot cars. 

I was fortunate enough to see the Can Am race at Road America in 1972, the last year before it tanked due to the energy crisis and Porsche dominance  '72 was the only year where Penske's turbo 917 raced against the big block McLarens.  In retrospect, the cars were cool and made a glorious racket but the competition was virtually non-existent.

 
Eephus said:
I'm not that old but just barely.  My experience with Chaparral's was only with slot cars. 

I was fortunate enough to see the Can Am race at Road America in 1972, the last year before it tanked due to the energy crisis and Porsche dominance  '72 was the only year where Penske's turbo 917 raced against the big block McLarens.  In retrospect, the cars were cool and made a glorious racket but the competition was virtually non-existent.
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:goodposting:

I'm not that old either, thankfully.

My experience with the Chap's is solely via Gran Turismo 4 which contains a mock of the 2J. I also have a fantastic book about them. Those dudes were ahead of time.  :thumbup:

:banned:

 
Anyway, the Daytona24 starts in around 12 to 15 hours from now. 

European football has come a long way. Just as recently as two years ago, the start of the race would be broadcast on FS1. That's no longer the case. The schedule tells you where the money is. NTTAWTA (lol)

Saturday, there is English FA Cup competition, followed by the German League, then FA Cup again. I miss the days of SpeedTV showing the whole 24+ hours.  :(

Thank goodness for the FoxSportsGo app. As soon as am I'm done slinging mail, my backside will be hooking up the Amazon box, drinking way too much beer, and working on fantasy leagues for 2018 while watching the evening and overnight action.

Hope you all enjoy

:banned:

 
The Rolex wasn't as closely contested as in recent years due to a lack of yellows and some BOP imbalance in GTLM. 

The prototype season should be incredible this year.  The Cadillacs showed they're up for the challenge from the new teams.  The Penske Acuras were competitive but suffered minor problems.  JPM drove it like he thought he was still at Martinsville and got called out by some GT competitors for it.   Joest had a weekend to forget.  The LMP2 cars just aren't competitive at a track like Daytona

The Ford GTs had BOP advantages but they still had to have a flawless 24 hours to exploit them.  Sebring will be more representative of the season ahead.  The GTDs had some of the best racing.  I really felt bad for the #58 Porsche who crashed on cold tires during the parade lap and was essentially out of the race before it started.  They trundled on for the full 24 hours but were almost 100 laps down by the time they repaired the car.

 
:blackdot:

My daughter and I watched the Amazon special in 4k - both of us were riveted.  Looking forward to catching some of this year's race.

Just saw an article that Fernando Alonso will drive for Toyota this year and next, in between gigs for McLaren 

 
boilerdave said:
Rolling Stone article on Randy Lanier:

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/randy-lanier-florida-pot-smuggling-kingpin-indy-car-driver-w515902

Pretty good and well written (I think) story. Lanier was a driver with a lot of talent (a pretty successful sports car racer and an Indianapolis 500 Rookie of the Year) that funded his race teams as a huge scale marijuana smuggler which eventually led to 27 years spent in prison.
 
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This 2014 article tells of the misdeeds of the Whittington brothers who finished first overall at Le Mans in 1979 driving some of the profits from their smuggling operation.

I guess I prefer this class of criminals over guys like Scott Tucker.

 
The Toyotas dominate the WEC season opener at Spa.  6 hrs is a sprint race compared to 24 so reliability is still the ultimate concern but only one of the Rebellion LMP1s was able to challenge the Toyotas on pace.

On this side of the Atlantic, Fox has relegated the Mid-Ohio IMSA race to FS2 which I don't have.  The two Penske Acuras lead DPI early.

 
Just got back from Mid-Ohio and gotta say, even though I didn't go to the WeatherTech race and the Risi Ferrari wasn't there, it was a fantastic weekend at the track.  :pickle:

This was the first time I've been around the Continental Tire Series vehicles and I thoroughly enjoyed them. The Mini cars were are awesome, tv doesn't do them justice. Took in the whole Conti race yesterday and can tell you that those dudes race hard. I now have a much greater appreciation for that series. Enjoyed the Lambos and the Porsche series practices and races, as always.  

Favorite sounding prototype: The JDC-Miller machine (The Penske and ESM cars sound like the old LMP1 Audi cars, which I love) 

Favorite sounding GTLM: Corvette (the Porsches are a close second since the Ferrari wasn't there)

Best Livery: No. 75 SunEnergy1 Racing ~ Mercedes-AMG GT3 (Beautiful in person) [IMSA GTD class]

Favorite sounding Conti machine: Aston Martin Vantage

A couple of notes about the Conti cars:

The number 81 Bimmerworld Racing BMW 328i is the craziest looking car out there. I swear, it looks like some sonbeech just jumped into the field and decided to race with the rest of the cars pulling a   :shark:  move and daring somebody to take him off the track,  :P

Like I said, the Minis are awesome. The Ford Mustangs look, run, and sound like American muscle cars, love them. The AMG Mercedes rides are the slickest looking cars of the series. Really like the McLaren GT4 cars also. They look good on tv and are even sweeter in person. 

This was the first time I've been to Mid-Ohio for a race since the last time the American LeMans Series ran there. It was like I never left. Also got to chat with Katherine Legge, Tim Cindric and Tommy MIlner (I've talked to him on the grid walk at Virginia International before  :bowtie: ) 

Great weekend, I hope like hell that IMSA keeps Mid-Ohio on the schedule forever (although it should have never been taken off). 

:banned:

 
A footnote from an individual account:

Once upon a time, I cared about the World Endurance Championship (WEC). That's no longer the case. In fact, I plan to not watch another European sportscar race no matter what. That series can go to hell for all I care.

Will I watch LeMans, of Scuderia Course, because I love La Sarthe and hope to spend the weekend there sometime before I stop breathing. Aside from La Sarthe there is only one other track in Europe I want to see racing action from, and that is the Nurburgring Nordschleife. 

As for now, I'm totally invested in the domestic series and look forward to the Corvette and Ford racing teams along with any other IMSA organizations garnering invites and participating in the greatest 24-hour race on the planet.

:banned:

 
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drunken slob said:
A footnote from an individual account:

Once upon a time, I cared about the World Endurance Championship (WEC). That's no longer the case. In fact, I plan to not watch another European sportscar race no matter what. That series can go to hell for all I care.

Will I watch LeMans, of Scuderia Course, because I love La Sarthe and hope to spend the weekend there sometime before I stop breathing. Aside from La Sarthe there is only one other track in Europe I want to see racing action from, and that is the Nurburgring Nordschleife. 

As for now, I'm totally invested in the domestic series and look forward to the Corvette and Ford racing teams along with any other IMSA organizations garnering invites and participating in the greatest 24-hour race on the planet.

:banned:
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The WEC isn't a great series but the season opener at Spa is the only pre-Le Mans event on the calendar.  It's the one opportunity to see how the other LMP1s stack up vs. the factory Toyotas (not very well)

 
Eephus said:
The WEC isn't a great series but the season opener at Spa is the only pre-Le Mans event on the calendar.  It's the one opportunity to see how the other LMP1s stack up vs. the factory Toyotas (not very well)
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Apologies for just now getting back to you pal.

The bolded says it all.

The FIA/ACO have bled to so much from Europe and the US to support a marquee series that many of us don't care for. WEC was great a couple years ago. Sad thing is, there are way more many great tracks outside of our great country to watch a race from. Spa/Fuji/LaSarthe/Silvertone and few others come to mind. 

However, I believe the WEC foundation was shaky to begin with. When Peugeot closed up their LMP1 program, I knew the bottom would fall out. Like I have said before, 908 HDi FAP was one of the greatest programs to ever grace racing. And don't forget the Audi teams that no longer exist. The Frenchies and the Audi R's were foils, just look at the Petit LeMans entries from a decade ago. The best teams on the planet spent time and money in this country and wanted to achieve recognition and superiority here in the states. Now, we get high quality P2 teams from across the pond competing against our DPi's and domestic P2 teams like ESM at Daytona/Sebring/Road Atlanta. As I said before, it's time to shut LMP1 down. The money is not there and the desire is waning for this class. I would rather see highly competitive P2 machines from Europe's best against the Penske/Wayne Taylor types, instead of a four car competition with the outcome predetermined. 

As a footnote, John Hindhaugh was at Mid-Ohio this weekend and giving notes about Spa to those of us at the track while calling the races. The fact that he was here instead of there speaks volumes to me.  :2cents:

WEC still has a great number of GTLM teams, but the US has Ford and Corvette. I'll stack them up against the Astons, Scuderia's, and the factory supported euro Porsche's any day of the week. IMSA also have factory supported GTLM Porsche teams here, see the 911 and 912 teams, each of these machines run Michelin tires, so there's that.

Like I said, fantastic weekend at the track. I rolled in, heard and felt the Lambos on track, and told myself, "This feels right." :shudder:

:banned:

 
Also, I understand, here in America it's NASCAR and in Europe it's Formula One. I have no problem with that.  :thumbup:

I'm a Sports-Car guy :drive: , always have been, always will be. As long as you like racing, you're alright with me

:banned:

 
The current LMP1 format is an unfortunate victim of Dieselgate and the FIA's inability to find a good equivalence formula for hybrid and non-hybrid power units.  It's also their biggest challenge for the next LMP1 package for 2020.  If they can get enough factories to compete, a 8-10 car class is a realistic hope.  The problem again comes in if the factories don't play ball and we're all back to legislating a competitive and affordable package for privateers.

I think IMSA should split the DPI from the P2s.  Equivalency isn't working.  Let the DPIs air things out and let the LMP2 guys race for a legitimate class win rather than a best of the rest.

 
Eephus said:
The current LMP1 format is an unfortunate victim of Dieselgate and the FIA's inability to find a good equivalence formula for hybrid and non-hybrid power units.  It's also their biggest challenge for the next LMP1 package for 2020.  If they can get enough factories to compete, a 8-10 car class is a realistic hope.  The problem again comes in if the factories don't play ball and we're all back to legislating a competitive and affordable package for privateers.

I think IMSA should split the DPI from the P2s.  Equivalency isn't working.  Let the DPIs air things out and let the LMP2 guys race for a legitimate class win rather than a best of the rest.
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:goodposting:  So much goodness in this post. 

Regarding the bolded, this is what I want. In the good ole days, P1 was P1 and P2 was P2. 

Don't feel like going back to my taped ALMS races right now, but I can remember one year at Leguna Seca when one of the Audi cars (McNish team more than likely) and one of the Penske Spyders (to my recollection, might have been the Lowes Acura with Brabham at the wheel) were battling each other going into and coming out of the "Corkscrew" then going down the hill into the right hander and into the last left turn to the checkers and the P2 almost found a way to get inside to outrun that Audi to the finish. Back then, I was a huge Audi fanboy and cheered for McNish, Dindo Capello, and Tom Kristensen (a.k.a. Mr. LeMans.) I still remember to this day watching the race live and screaming at my tv that whomever was driving that Audi better not let that P2 get by in that last turn and win the race. That's what I want from IMSA now.

P1's are the big boys, but the P2's had there upside, mostly that while they lacked straight line speed and torque they were better in the turns while handling better overall and could sneak other cars when the time is right. 

I guess we'll see

:banned:

 
The Toyotas are over two seconds quicker than their non-hybrid competition in LMP1 qualifying.

Starting position obviously doesn't matter in a 24-hour race but I hoped for a closer match in performance.

 
10 hours to go and things have gone pretty much as expected.  The two Toyotas are in a class of their own with a 7 lap lead on the third place car.   The only intrigue is to see if the team will let them race for the win.

Attrition has been high in LMP1; only the two Rebellion cars are ahead of the flock of LMP2 entrants.  The most impressive run so far may be from the #26 G-Drive car that has a full lap lead in LMP2.

The organizers missed on the balance of performance on GTE Pro (GTLM).  The two works Porsches have too much of an advantage which means the close GT racing of recent years is missing.  Maybe there just haven't been enough yellows to close things up.

Even without tight on-track battles, it's still cool to be able to watch Le Mans, especially through the French night.  The in-car shots are breathtaking.  You can really see where the Toyotas' advantage comes in; they charge the hybrid batteries on braking and then blow by the other prototypes on corner exit.

 
IMSA announced they're going to split DPi and LMP2 into separate classes next year.  They never BOPed the DPs enough for the LMP2s to be competitive anyways.  LMP2 will become a pro-am class.  Time will tell what that'll do to car counts.  The DPs will no doubt get faster.

This move widens the gulf between the American and European sports car racing but the ACO seems mostly to blame for that.  Sad.

 
This is the final season of the current LMP1 regulations.

The 2020-21 spec is going to be announced soon.  There's no big surprise in the direction toward hypercars since this is what the manufacturers wanted.  Hybrids will be optional so  balance of performance will continue to be critical.  It remains to be seen if the organizers even want relative parity.

This will extend the schism between sports car racing in the US vs. the rest of the world.  DPi is a much more entertaining series but their cars at Le Mans wouldn't stir my soul.

So hypercars it is then.  Only Aston Martin and Toyota are committed so far but I guess that's a 100% increase in factory competitors, at least until one drops out.

 
The #7 Toyota was a half second up on the fastest customer LMP1 in Q1 before crashing.  The #8 Toyota didn't put up a big number in Q1.  Q2 starts in 30 minutes.

 
The top four LMP1 cars are within one second/lap of the fastest Toyota so that's better.  The non-hybrids have higher top end speed so one might actually lead for part of lap one.  The Toyotas can run an extra lap per fuel stint which is a huge advantage over 24 hours.

Five different GTLM makes in P1-P5 so that class should be tight as always.

 
Oh #### yeah. I completely forgot this was on this weekend. I've got a lot going on.

Saturday productivity, wait.

 
At the four hour mark, the #7 Toyota is a minute ahead of its sister car.  No retirements yet so the race is wide open.

The biggest story so far is the Aston Martins getting gamed by late balance of performance adjustments in GTE Pro.  They and BMW look uncompetitive leaving Porsche, Ferrari, Ford and Corvette to battle it out.

 
The end of an era.  Toyota went out on top as expected.  Too bad for the #7 team but it's a team sport.  There's no upside when anything other than a 1-2 finish would be a disappointment but Toyota Gazoo executed.

The GT battles were disappointing due to BoP flaws and when the cautions happened to fall.  There was close racing in both GT classes but rarely involving the leader.  It remains to be seen what GT looks like in the Hypercar era; it'll be tough to top the competition that's happened (most of the time) during the current GT spec.

I'm on the West Coast so I always miss the start and usually miss the finish.  But it's cool to have the race on in the background throughout the day on Saturday.  The event and the track are special no matter who's running.

 
Bump for the 2023 Centenary edition.

I'm more excited by this year's race than I have been in a long time. The Toyotas which have dominated the event recently face competition in factory efforts from Ferrari, Porsche and Cadillac. Toyota has had more time to work out the bugs so they're still the odds-on favorites but Ferrari locked out the front row in qualifying today. Pole position is pretty meaningless in a 24 hour race but I doubt the Toyotas will run off an hide like they have in the past.

Among the lower LMP and GT classes, there's a modified NASCAR Chevy Camaro driven by Jimmie Johnson, former F1 champ Jenson Button and sports car ace Mike Rockenfeller. The NASCAR entry is participating as an exhibition so it's not eligible to win but it'll be cool to see it battle with the GTs.
 
Eephus said:
Bump for the 2023 Centenary edition.

I'm more excited by this year's race than I have been in a long time. The Toyotas which have dominated the event recently face competition in factory efforts from Ferrari, Porsche and Cadillac. Toyota has had more time to work out the bugs so they're still the odds-on favorites but Ferrari locked out the front row in qualifying today. Pole position is pretty meaningless in a 24 hour race but I doubt the Toyotas will run off an hide like they have in the past.

Among the lower LMP and GT classes, there's a modified NASCAR Chevy Camaro driven by Jimmie Johnson, former F1 champ Jenson Button and sports car ace Mike Rockenfeller. The NASCAR entry is participating as an exhibition so it's not eligible to win but it'll be cool to see it battle with the GTs.
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The NASCAR Camaro is what I am interested in.
 
Eephus said:
Bump for the 2023 Centenary edition.

I'm more excited by this year's race than I have been in a long time. The Toyotas which have dominated the event recently face competition in factory efforts from Ferrari, Porsche and Cadillac. Toyota has had more time to work out the bugs so they're still the odds-on favorites but Ferrari locked out the front row in qualifying today. Pole position is pretty meaningless in a 24 hour race but I doubt the Toyotas will run off an hide like they have in the past.

Among the lower LMP and GT classes, there's a modified NASCAR Chevy Camaro driven by Jimmie Johnson, former F1 champ Jenson Button and sports car ace Mike Rockenfeller. The NASCAR entry is participating as an exhibition so it's not eligible to win but it'll be cool to see it battle with the GTs.
Click to expand...
:hifive:
I haven't been able to catch any WEC this year, unfortunately. Definitely looking forward to learning about how the prototypes are categorized.
The GT racing should be excellent, a lot of IMSA drivers involved again this year. Did see some pics of the Garage 56 Camaro, has a really good looking livery.
:banned:

ETA: Motor Trend TV broadcasts all 24 hours of the race. Sorry @PIK95, I have no good solutions for you. Wish I could do better.
 
Motor Trend also has in car feeds and 3 options for the broadcast-the world, eurosport, and french feeds.

Motor Trend is one of the few things I subscribe to-$33 a year. No amazon, cable, or music.
 
Eephus said:
Rain coming down at the 21 hour mark. Mayhem ensues.
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Thanks for bumping the thread when you did. I managed to catch 30 minutes of the race and wish I would have had time to watch more.

I have always been interested in the event and have read many articles about it but never watched a minute of it before this year.
 
drunken slob said:
Eephus said:
Bump for the 2023 Centenary edition.

I'm more excited by this year's race than I have been in a long time. The Toyotas which have dominated the event recently face competition in factory efforts from Ferrari, Porsche and Cadillac. Toyota has had more time to work out the bugs so they're still the odds-on favorites but Ferrari locked out the front row in qualifying today. Pole position is pretty meaningless in a 24 hour race but I doubt the Toyotas will run off an hide like they have in the past.

Among the lower LMP and GT classes, there's a modified NASCAR Chevy Camaro driven by Jimmie Johnson, former F1 champ Jenson Button and sports car ace Mike Rockenfeller. The NASCAR entry is participating as an exhibition so it's not eligible to win but it'll be cool to see it battle with the GTs.
Click to expand...
:hifive:
I haven't been able to catch any WEC this year, unfortunately. Definitely looking forward to learning about how the prototypes are categorized.
The GT racing should be excellent, a lot of IMSA drivers involved again this year. Did see some pics of the Garage 56 Camaro, has a really good looking livery.
:banned:

ETA: Motor Trend TV broadcasts all 24 hours of the race. Sorry @PIK95, I have no good solutions for you. Wish I could do better.
Click to expand...
Yeah, so I actually have Moter Trend TV on my Verizon package. Sorry, lol.

My son had his high school graduation this morning, so I was a little late to the party anyway. Thanks again.
 
Plenty of time left to watch. They're not even at the halfway point.

It seems like the race has been under the safety car every time I've switched over to look. The rain hasn't helped with more incoming before the finish. Attrition has reduced the contenders for P1 overall with a Toyota, Porsche and Cadillac out or many laps behind. The Peugeots have been surprisingly strong and have kept pace with the remaining Toyota and Ferrari.

The NASCAR Camaro is still running. As far as I can tell, it's a lap behind the GT leaders but running comparable lap times.

Link to timing & scoring:

Race - 24 Hours of Le Mans

live.fiawec.com live.fiawec.com
 
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