League ethics question (1 Viewer)

[mike11162]

I am in a 12 team keeper league where you can trade future rookie picks 3 years in advance. 2 or 3 of the owners (one of which is the commissioner) continuously make trades with the lesser teams where they swap their future first round picks (and often second round picks as well) with each other. Sometimes there is a token "asset" thrown in, but often not, it's just a straight out swap of picks. This often results in one of the stronger teams owning the top pick in future rookie drafts. For example, the commissioner owns the top two picks in this year's draft from previous similar deals (this is not an attack on the commissioner, another guy is actually worse for pulling off these type of deals).

It's also an auction league, and the same owners will often sell picks (usually later picks) to lesser teams for extra auction cash (money carries over year to year). They are not necessarily selling them back to the same owner they traded from to get them, usually it's a different owner. For example, the first trade of this offseason just went down and the commissioner dealt rookie picks 2.01 and 2.05 to a lesser owner for his second round pick in 2020 and his first and second rounders in 2021. So the cycle continues.

These types of trades are not technically illegal, but I consider them unethical. Of course, changing the rule to not allow dealing picks that far in advance would correct most of the problem, but obviously the commissioner doesn't want to change that rule, and I suspect it won't pass a league vote either. The commissioner will also argue the draft isn't an exact science, and while that's correct, odds are strongly stacked in your favor if you always have top 5 rookie picks and the rebuilding teams don't. Not to mention having draft assets to deal for extra auction capital (I should add it's a contract league, you can only keep your players for so long, so every year there are star players available in the vet auction, and the same owners have auction cash stockpiled).

It's not a big money league and I like the commissioner personally. I like the format and I have a decent team. I don't really want to just quit, but I don't think I feel comfortable staying in the current atmosphere. Am I wrong to feel this way? Guess I should just leave but is there some other way I can address the situation without becoming that pain in the ### owner that protests everything in the league? Thoughts are appreciated.

 

[wakelawyer]

I'm not sure how this is unethical.  There are a set of rules in place and it appears that they were in place when you joined.  And it does not appear that anything is preventing you from making similar deals.

As to your example, trading the 2018 2.01 for a 2019 1st is something that is done all the time and an offer that I must've received at least 5 times already this offseason.  I declined it but it's not unreasonable.  Pushing the return out to 2021 could warrant the addition of an extra 2nd.  So I think that the 2.01 and 2.05 for a 2020 2nd and a 2021 1st and 2nd to be fair.  While you think that the team is "lesser," a lot can change in dynasty.  And if the guy is really that bad, maybe another team is running the show then.  But those 2.01s can become guys like Kareem Hunt and trades instantly look a lot different.

In the end, it would seem that the league is not a good fit for you.  It happens.  Doesn't mean that you are a bad owner or that the commish is unethical but all leagues are not for all people.  Find the league that fits your goals and you'll be a lot happier.

 

[Bfrahm3]

Start trading with the lesser owners so you have the high draft picks? 

Like you said not much you can do, it is taking advantage of the lesser owners but unless they stop doing the trades it's going to keep happening. Maybe point out to those lesser owners that they keep losing those trades and they will realize they need to be getting more out of them or just stop doing those types of trades?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Are you saying that a bad team is trading his future first for a good team's future first? I don't see why I would turn an offer like that down if it was offered to me.

 

[Phantom Knight]

Clearly the owners are within the rules.  So you cannot really complain. 

Me personally, I don't like it when stronger owners prey on weaker owners - enough so that I would league the league at the end of the season where this pattern became obvious.

I almost left a league this off season for that reason, in one season a new owner just destroyed his team - traded away all his true assets AND his picks for the 2018 and 2019 drafts.  I stopped trading with him once it became that he was either incompetent or intentionally trying to destroy his team, but others did not. Within the rules, clearly, but it damages the integrity of the league. If that owner had continued in the league under those circumstances, I would have exited.  Luckily he bailed on his disaster and someone was willing to pick up the pieces.

 

[Gally]

Every year I make a trade with another owner of a swap of a future year draft pick as a bet on our teams.  The draft order is set on the final standings so I am betting I finish better in the standings than the other owner.  The price is that draft pick swap.  Sometimes we trade future firsts.  Sometimes we trade future 5th's.  It just depends on what we agree on for the bet.  Nothing unethical or problematic.  We don't know the draft slot at the time of the draft.  It is just a first for a first. 

Now for your situation I am confused as to why this one owner is always swapping future 1sts with these teams.  Are they blind to what is going on and not understand or are they similar deals as the one you outlined (current year 2nd rounders for a future 1st and future 2nd)?  Why aren't you getting into the trading frenzy?  Why not ask them why they keep giving up their future draft picks? 

Bottom line there isn't really anything wrong happening as long as teams are doing what they think improves their team in some way. 

 

[mike11162]

First let me say I appreciate the responses and perspective given. Perhaps I overreacted just a bit posting the situation in the first place, but needed an outsider's viewpoint to see that.

Visited the new site for the first time today (it's only been up a few days) and I had a couple of misconceptions. First is that the commissioner has picks 1 and 5, not the first two. Second is I thought they had more auction money stockpiled than they do, a lot more than they do, but it's not the case. They still have an overload of talent already and the inside track to the top rookie pick the next three years, but that's going to happen in a lot of leagues. 

I agree if you're offered a lopsided trade in your favor you're going to take it, and sometimes that's the case in this league. But usually it's the other way around, a good owner going out of the way to prey on a bad one. It's within the rules, and maybe not technically "unethical", but I don't think it's the right thing to do. Sure I could do the same but I prefer not to, rather win on my own merits. To each their own.

It's mostly one bad owner doing the damage. I guess he approaches the league differently than others, and suppose I can't dictate to him how he has to do that. He pays his money and has the right to do what he wants with the team. Same owner is the one who made the first trade this year. He's traded away his first rounder the next 3 years, and he trades away most of his auction dollars to get rookie picks in the 10-20 range back every year. He has the right to do it I guess, and he's a decent guy, just think he hurts the integrity of the league doing it. There are a couple others that get picked on by the same two guys, but not nearly as badly or blatantly.

I'm not going to leave the league and I'm not going to be critical about everything. It is what it is and I'll just roll with it. Thanks again for listening and for your responses.

 

[-OZ-]

Me personally, I don't like it when stronger owners prey on weaker owners - enough so that I would league the league at the end of the season where this pattern became obvious.

Agreed. Though so long as the weak owners are fair, meaning they'll trade with anyone instead of a select one or free, it's not enough to leave. But if you see a couple teams serving as farm teams, that's a problem.

 

[Dismattle]

Believe you just may be encountering the difficulties being a Millennial playing w veteran FF  Here's one trait:  " Millennials need to feel like what they are doing is important and that they are on the right track. "  I'd venture to say watching poor Teams trade out of future valuable picks to dominating Teams may make ya scratch your head a bit especially if your not very active among trading  Guess you could try to work on being more vocal to the guys trading inquiring to their view of needs for your Team including your strengths 

Bottom line I would believe you may enjoy the level of trading in the long run when compared to most other Leagues

 

[mike11162]

Believe you just may be encountering the difficulties being a Millennial playing w veteran FF  Here's one trait:  " Millennials need to feel like what they are doing is important and that they are on the right track. "  I'd venture to say watching poor Teams trade out of future valuable picks to dominating Teams may make ya scratch your head a bit especially if your not very active among trading  Guess you could try to work on being more vocal to the guys trading inquiring to their view of needs for your Team including your strengths 

Bottom line I would believe you may enjoy the level of trading in the long run when compared to most other Leagues

LMAO, I am not a millennial! I'm 55! I do trade in this league, just not the my future first for your future first type. I don't think it's the right thing to do. For me it's more enjoyable to win a trade fair and square rather than have it gifted to you.

It's like if you find a wallet with money in it and ID to who it belongs to, do you return it intact or take the money out? Some take the money and return it (or let it be found and returned minus the money), others give it back how it was found. The owner can't prove you took it, but is it right to do? Technically not illegal, probably unethical, at least not the right thing to do.

 

[Chaka]

Definitely collusion.

 

[voiceofunreason]

Believe you just may be encountering the difficulties being a Millennial playing w veteran FF  Here's one trait:  " Millennials need to feel like what they are doing is important and that they are on the right track. "  I'd venture to say watching poor Teams trade out of future valuable picks to dominating Teams may make ya scratch your head a bit especially if your not very active among trading  Guess you could try to work on being more vocal to the guys trading inquiring to their view of needs for your Team including your strengths 

Bottom line I would believe you may enjoy the level of trading in the long run when compared to most other Leagues

So everyone but millenials loves highly unbalanced leagues where 1 or 2 owners trapes the same guys repeatedly? 

 

[Dismattle]

So everyone but millenials loves highly unbalanced leagues where 1 or 2 owners trapes the same guys repeatedly? 

Sounds as if you play in similar league  Carpe Diem!

 

[Chaka]

So everyone but millenials loves highly unbalanced leagues where 1 or 2 owners trapes the same guys repeatedly? 

I think the take home message is "If you don't like it, be more active."

 

[Genester]

If you want a rule that may fix it, put every trade offer up for bids. So, someone wants to sell their 1.5 this year? Let the other owners bid in an open forum, with a known deadline. The 1.5 owning team can then pick the best offer they like... things will get close to value very quickly with this approach.

 

[Pwingles]

Hi Lone Star

 

[drewd_21]

Hi Lone Star

Can't be....no poll 

 

[-OZ-]

...just not the my future first for your future first type. I don't think it's the right thing to do. .

There's absolutely nothing wrong with swapping firsts. It can lead to unbalance but the real "problem" is the disparity in skill/knowledge/care between owners. 

 

[voiceofunreason]

I think the take home message is "If you don't like it, be more active."

I’ve always been the most active guy in the league. Some guys just know how to rip off stupid people.

 

[Chaka]

I’ve always been the most active guy in the league. Some guys just know how to rip off stupid people.

Perhaps they're definition of being ripped off is different than yours?

I mean, maybe they think your offers are worse than the ones they accepted. It wouldn't be the first time people had differing opinions about what is, or is not equitable.

 

[The Duff Man]

If you don't put your foot down now it will just get worse.