Lebron James will never win a championship... (1 Viewer)

[Cliff Clavin]

You posted great numbers.  I was trying to put them in some kind of context.  A guy who plays point guard much of the time should have way more assists.  He doesn't.

I didn't say Bird had more assists or averaged more.  I said that if Lebron was the way better passer, the numbers should reflect that he is far and away better.  They don't.  Having watched both of them, to me, Bird was the far better play maker.

I am not unbiased so it's just my opinion, obviously

The better passer would probably average more assists and have a lower turnover rate, right? Turnover rates are basically equal but LeBron ast% is almost 50% better than Birds. And LeBron plays point forward because he is such a good passer. 

 

[saintsfan]

Let me ask you this Cliff.  What about intangibles??  If those two guys were in a series together, which one would blink first??  

IMO, the meltdowns with Miami against the Mavs and Spurs...yeah, Bird would have been carried out on a stretcher before pouting and disappearing like that.

 

[JuniorNB]

OK, so Larry averaging like 4 more rebounds a game doesn't matter.  And the fact that Lebron plays point guard a lot means he should average a bunch more assists too.  Except he doesn't.  And the fact that Larry is only a better shooter means Lebron should average a bunch more points.  Except he doesn't.

If we aren't going to use any kind of numbers, what's the point??  

Numbers do matter. Bird was great. I have him at #5 all-time. So you certainly don't have to sell me on him. He's a terrific player. But only Jordan was better than Lebron.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Let me ask you this Cliff.  What about intangibles??  If those two guys were in a series together, which one would blink first??  

IMO, the meltdowns with Miami against the Mavs and Spurs...yeah, Bird would have been carried out on a stretcher before pouting and disappearing like that.

I'd rather not play psychologist. Intangibles change with the story line and get magnified and romanced over the years. A week ago LeBron wasn't clutch, always failed in the finals, etc... now he's led an inferior team back from down 3-1 vs the team who set the single season wins record and many people are saying he's #2 all-time with a solid argument vs Jordan.

 

[saintsfan]

I'd rather not play psychologist. Intangibles change with the story line and get magnified and romanced over the years. A week ago LeBron wasn't clutch, always failed in the finals, etc... now he's led an inferior team back from down 3-1 vs the team who set the single season wins record and many people are saying he's #2 all-time with a solid argument vs Jordan.

You can't even give me that Bird was the better clutch player??  Come on.  Dude was cold blooded.  Michael Jordan even said other than himself, he'd want Bird with the ball...

 

[cstu]

I'd rather not play psychologist. Intangibles change with the story line and get magnified and romanced over the years. A week ago LeBron wasn't clutch, always failed in the finals, etc... now he's led an inferior team back from down 3-1 vs the team who set the single season wins record and many people are saying he's #2 all-time with a solid argument vs Jordan.

People said the same thing about Jordan until 1991. 

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

If you needed one defensive stop to clinch a game, would you rather have Larry Bird or LeBron James?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

You can't even give me that Bird was the better clutch player??  Come on.  Dude was cold blooded.  Michael Jordan even said other than himself, he'd want Bird with the ball...

I don't believe in "clutchness". 

 

[Cliff Clavin]

You can't even give me that Bird was the better clutch player??  Come on.  Dude was cold blooded.  Michael Jordan even said other than himself, he'd want Bird with the ball...

I don't believe in "clutchness". 

To expand with an example. We have ESPN, all the talking heads and even players talking about how "clutch" Kobe is and how everyone says he is the one they'd pick for a last shot. Well, its a completely false narrative but over time, the legend of uber-clutch Kobe is going to grow. Kobe is hot freaking garbage with the game on the line and all the stats in the world back that up. Doesn't matter though. Doesn't matter that he had one of the all-time worst game 7 performances. He has the intangible of clutchness.

Not saying Bird = Kobe; just using him as an example.

If you want to laydown a significant sample size (doubtful one exists) that shows Bird, or anyone, made enough "clutch" shots to be an outlier, I'll be happy to listen. 

 

[Ghost Rider]

Let me ask you this Cliff.  What about intangibles??  If those two guys were in a series together, which one would blink first??  

IMO, the meltdowns with Miami against the Mavs and Spurs...yeah, Bird would have been carried out on a stretcher before pouting and disappearing like that.

Er, you do realize that James was spectacular in the 2014 finals loss to the Spurs, right?  The rest of the team sucked, but he played tremendous. 

I think the intangibles of both Bird and James are off the charts, so it's splitting hairs to pick one over the other. 

 

[Tau837]

Pre-Finals bump for this classic thread that may just be the worst call in FFA history.  

 

[Ghost Rider]

The best part about the OP is saying Melo would win multiple rings.  

The same Melo who cannot make the playoffs in the weaker conference these days.  

 

[Long Ball Larry]

a lavish Broadway musical?

dammit

 

[Long Ball Larry]

I don't know that post was, but it was somehow saved in the quick reply when I came in here, so I figured I go with it.

My real post was what the #### ever happened the OP?  Was that pining over his best friend thread a hoax and now he has a different alias or did she murder him?  Those are the only 2 conceivable choices that I see.

 

[Charlie Harper]

I'm still here.

 

[culdeus]

If you put LeBron on a mediocre west team like Houston 10 years ago how many finals does he make?

What about a decent-ish team like Dallas?

 

[The Man With No Name]

Never say never

 

[Long Ball Larry]

I'm still here.

ohhhhh

that makes sense

 

[stbugs]

If you put LeBron on a mediocre west team like Houston 10 years ago how many finals does he make?

What about a decent-ish team like Dallas?

He still makes quite a few. Those first Cleveland teams he brought to the finals were awful, like worst in the league when he left awful.