Frostillicus
Footballguy
Well?
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Let's make a list together! Who is the #1 basketball player of all-time? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Frostillicus
- Start date
General Malaise
Footballguy
Other.
Brad Davis
Brad Davis
Kev4029
Footballguy
I think Jordan is probably the best player in NBA history based on his higher peak, but I think Lebron has the best full resume based on the longer career of team and personal success. If Lebron can maintain something near his 22-23 level where he is playing at or near an All-NBA level for another couple years, I think his significantly extended resume will surpass the accomplishments of Jordan's slightly higher peak.
HellToupee
Footballguy
MJ
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
MJ sees this thread he’s gonna make it personal
Jayrod
Footballguy
That's because those of us that know how great he was also know he isn't #1.
Zow
Footballguy
Who was three? I think that’s where the debate begins really.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Here is the debate in case you missed this thread
Who is the third best NBA player of all-time?
Jordan and Lebron are #1/#2 in whatever order by any reasonable measure. So who is next?
forums.footballguys.com
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
list
Michael Jordan
/list
Michael Jordan
/list
-OZ-
Footballguy
mJ seems like the choice here but many of the votes are going his way simply based on our demographics. Those of us in our 40s grew up watching him in our formative years. I was a Pistons fan, so I watched a lot of Jordan. That was one of the best rivalries ever - Jordan vs the bad boys. It took a while and adding the right players but Jordan eventually won that war.
It’s really 1a/1b with Lebron.
It’s really 1a/1b with Lebron.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
But did he?
Jordan's Bulls faced the Bad Boy Pistons four times in the playoffs.
The Pistons won three of the series, leading to TWO NBA championships and another Finals appearance.
The Bulls won one of the series, leading to ONE NBA championship.
Sounds, to me, like the Pistons got the better of the Bulls in their war/rivalry.
Now, the Bulls obviously went on to greater success by winning five more championships, while those Pistons never won another, so on the grander scale, sure, the Bulls won the war over the NBA as a whole, but in the Bulls/Pistons rivalry, the Pistons, in that four-year stretch, won it.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I’ve said it before but no player has had the combo of unreal athleticism, insane basketball IQ, elite skills and the will to want to murder everyone in their path the way MJ did.
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
Somehow Bill Russell and his eleven rings always gets forgotten in these types of discussions.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
He was 1st team all-nba three times in 13 seasons. I never saw him play, but since I’m not a “count the rings” guy, I have a hard time calling someone the best when he was rarely even considered the best at his position in real time.
-OZ-
Footballguy
If you’re limiting it to 4 years, ok. But their reign ended in 91, when the bulls went on to 3 straight and 6 of the next 8 championships. So yeah, the Bulls with Jordan eventually won the war. (I’m not limiting the war to those 4 years)
Hawks64
Footballguy
The way I think about it is, I believe MJ would have dominated in whichever era he played in. I don't think the same could be said about anyone else on this list. Obviously, biased but you couldn't out will Jordan, if he wanted to shut you down or drop 50 on you he would. The only other player I've ever seen with that will was Kobe.
Zow
Footballguy
I
He's my vote for 3 fwiw.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He said "eventually", as in the Pistons won the first two battles but eventually the Bulls prevailed.
Jayrod
Footballguy
He also had 5 MVP's.
Russell made everyone around him better and was the only guy who could get the better of Wilt consistently.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
This.
Jordan would send Lebron home crying. He would be in his head, calling Lebron a punk *****. Lebron couldn’t even handle Kobe 1v1.
For me it’s MJ but could see an argument made for Wilt, who I think might have been an alien. (That’s a joke, not an actual alien)
rockaction
Footballguy
Probably closer than people think between LeBron and Michael.
That third place thing not going Magic's way is stunning to me. Nobody changed the game like him. Seven footers always gonna seven foot. 6'9" at point guard? That totally changed the way GMs scout these guys, both shooting and point guards.
Showtime at 6'9". Running floors and dishing and wishing (as Clyde Frazier might say).
But I guess the NBA is a bigs-driven league so. . .seven footers gonna seven foot in the rankings.
That third place thing not going Magic's way is stunning to me. Nobody changed the game like him. Seven footers always gonna seven foot. 6'9" at point guard? That totally changed the way GMs scout these guys, both shooting and point guards.
Showtime at 6'9". Running floors and dishing and wishing (as Clyde Frazier might say).
But I guess the NBA is a bigs-driven league so. . .seven footers gonna seven foot in the rankings.
Last edited:
nirad3
Footballguy
This.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Dwyane Wade
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
Agreed. There's a lot of nostalgia for that rivalry but the teams didn't really sync up in terms of title windows. 89-90 was probably the only season they were both championship caliber and the only time the series went 7, and the Pistons won that one.
The 90-91 Pistons weren't that great. The Bulls swept them with ease in the ECF in what was more of a symbolic torch passing than actual competition. The Pistons only got that far because of Larry Bird's messed-up back. The Bulls were winning the title that year regardless, but if Bird stays healthy, then they never get to claim a postseason victory over Detroit.
Jayrod
Footballguy
He was a below average defender and not a good outside shooter. He also benefitted greatly from playing with the guy I actually have ranked at #3.
rockaction
Footballguy
I was going to make fun of you for spelling it wrong, but dammit, MoPe, you got me.
Spelled correctly.
I still can't do it (spell his name right). I always start typing the "y" before the "w" because I remember it's all strange, but I can never remember exactly why. Thanks, Dwyane's Mom. BTW, you knew Wade was going to be a superstar during the NCAA tourney when he just carried Marquette kicking and screaming into the final eight. Like a father and four toddlers tugging at his legs and Dwyane was still winning games single-handedly.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
This question will be asked ad infinitum, and without setting up any ground rules is very difficult to answer. LeBron having played for so long is going to end up with some crazy career totals (ie, counting statistics). The longer he plays, like most older players, his rate statistics will start to drop some. IMO, James probably has had a longer stretch than MJ did of being a slightly better all-around player. But peak MJ was off the charts. If we are really asking, "which player in his prime would be your first pick to win a basketball game if your life depended on it?" that to me is pretty easy. Michael. If the question is, "which player was the most consistent force and elite player across a lengthy career?" A case certainly could be made for LeBron.
The theoretical debates about moving players from one era to another is not really something that can be evaluated. These two didn't play in the same era, so hypothesizing what would have happened if LBJ went back to the 90s or if MJ got transported to the 10s can only take place in an alternate reality.
If Jokic keeps playing like he has the past three seasons for another 10 years (obviously winning multiple titles and MVPs along the way), it will be interesting to see how people evaluate him among the all-time greats. He probably doesn't score enough to be considered one of the greatest scorers, but his efficiency numbers and rate statistics are near the top of several all-time lists. He probably won't play long enough to get near the top of the counting statistics categories. Not sure what people would think of him if he somehow finished his career ranked #1 in PER with 5 MVPs and 5 titles. But we are a LONGGGGGG way from any of that happening.
The theoretical debates about moving players from one era to another is not really something that can be evaluated. These two didn't play in the same era, so hypothesizing what would have happened if LBJ went back to the 90s or if MJ got transported to the 10s can only take place in an alternate reality.
If Jokic keeps playing like he has the past three seasons for another 10 years (obviously winning multiple titles and MVPs along the way), it will be interesting to see how people evaluate him among the all-time greats. He probably doesn't score enough to be considered one of the greatest scorers, but his efficiency numbers and rate statistics are near the top of several all-time lists. He probably won't play long enough to get near the top of the counting statistics categories. Not sure what people would think of him if he somehow finished his career ranked #1 in PER with 5 MVPs and 5 titles. But we are a LONGGGGGG way from any of that happening.
Last edited:
rockaction
Footballguy
His miracle three in Boston will live as the one of the all-time daggers to the heart in NBA play.
But if you say so, then who am I to suggest otherwise? You do this stuff for breakfast.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Magic is the greatest PG of all time, did revolutionize the position and is a lock in the top 7 of this list. We're just splitting hairs at this level and I've always felt like he was a bit overrated due to the aforementioned issues. I just don't think he belongs in the top 3 discussion.
rockaction
Footballguy
It's a sport I've only ever dabbled in, both playing and observing. 6'0" and heavy thighs and calves makes it awfully tough to set sights on the pros, and as kids, that's what we all dream about. Or at least some sort of prowess, even if it's not the pros. I looked around at 5'3" as a freshman in high school, was tired of getting utterly swatted, and knew I had no shot, so I stuck to hockey and baseball and following those sports.
Long way of saying you would know better the finer points of a list like this than I.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
I'm a Laker fan and Magic stan, always rooted against MJ, but I still have to put him at #1. Hard to argue against LeBron's body of work, so I reluctantly put him at #2.
Behind them I do have Magic, Kareem, Wilt and Russell in some order. I have a hard time with the Wilt v Russell thing. NBA historians pretty much all put Russ ahead, but Wilt was the most dominating player in the game, probably ever (peak Shaq the only counter argument I can see). Hell he may have been the greatest athlete on the planet in the 60s. He played both ends of the court, while Russell could barely shoot and didn't score much (15 ppg for his career). No question Russell is the greatest winner in sports history (2 NCAAs, Olympic Gold, 11 NBA titles? Ridiculous!). But he almost always had the best team around him. Wilt had the better team twice, maybe three times, and won the title two of those seasons. And it was way closer than people remember: Wilt team's lost to the Celtics in Game 7 four times - by a combined 9 points! He was just a better basketball player, but so often distracted by stats and off court shenanigans while Russ only cared about winning so he kept getting the best of him.
Goliath, a three part docuseries about Wilt on Showtime, is a great watch. The Paul Arizin story at the end
Behind them I do have Magic, Kareem, Wilt and Russell in some order. I have a hard time with the Wilt v Russell thing. NBA historians pretty much all put Russ ahead, but Wilt was the most dominating player in the game, probably ever (peak Shaq the only counter argument I can see). Hell he may have been the greatest athlete on the planet in the 60s. He played both ends of the court, while Russell could barely shoot and didn't score much (15 ppg for his career). No question Russell is the greatest winner in sports history (2 NCAAs, Olympic Gold, 11 NBA titles? Ridiculous!). But he almost always had the best team around him. Wilt had the better team twice, maybe three times, and won the title two of those seasons. And it was way closer than people remember: Wilt team's lost to the Celtics in Game 7 four times - by a combined 9 points! He was just a better basketball player, but so often distracted by stats and off court shenanigans while Russ only cared about winning so he kept getting the best of him.
Goliath, a three part docuseries about Wilt on Showtime, is a great watch. The Paul Arizin story at the end
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
I like this entire post and would pretty much agree 100%I'm a Laker fan and Magic stan, always rooted against MJ, but I still have to put him at #1. Hard to argue against LeBron's body of work, so I reluctantly put him at #2.
Behind them I do have Magic, Kareem, Wilt and Russell in some order. I have a hard time with the Wilt v Russell thing. NBA historians pretty much all put Russ ahead, but Wilt was the most dominating player in the game, probably ever (peak Shaq the only counter argument I can see). Hell he may have been the greatest athlete on the planet in the 60s. He played both ends of the court, while Russell could barely shoot and didn't score much (15 ppg for his career). No question Russell is the greatest winner in sports history (2 NCAAs, Olympic Gold, 11 NBA titles? Ridiculous!). But he almost always had the best team around him. Wilt had the better team twice, maybe three times, and won the title two of those seasons. And it was way closer than people remember: Wilt team's lost to the Celtics in Game 7 four times - by a combined 9 points! He was just a better basketball player, but so often distracted by stats and off court shenanigans while Russ only cared about winning so he kept getting the best of him.
Goliath, a three part docuseries about Wilt on Showtime, is a great watch. The Paul Arizin story at the end
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Magic was a 30% career 3-pt shooter, but he was also an 85% career FT shooter. Nobody really practiced 3’s back in the day, but based on his FT shooting he probably would have become a solid outside shooter if he played today.
bryhamm
Footballguy
Really don't see how you can say the bolded and be talking about Lebron. If you are gonna use the bolded as point, then it has to be Bill Russell imo.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Jordan is da GOAT - Album on Imgur
Discover the magic of the internet at Imgur, a community powered entertainment destination. Lift your spirits with funny jokes, trending memes, entertaining gifs, inspiring stories, viral videos, and so much more from users like SteadyMobbin22.
imgur.com
Jayrod
Footballguy
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
About Ball’s shooting? Or Magic’s?
Kev4029
Footballguy
For three reasons, one of which is incredibly inarguable:
- Bill Russell started in the NBA when there was 8 teams and finished when there was 12 (while the ABA was also starting to steal talent). Winning 11 titles in 13 years is incredible, but Lebron making 9 finals in a row (and winning 4) is more impressive in a much more competitive NBA to me.
- Lebron's personal accomplishments during that time are unworldly. I think he was unequivocally the best player in the NBA 08-09 to 17-18, and probably for two and maybe three years preceding that and a year after that. That long of a run is unmatched in NBA history.
- The inarguable part of the comparison of Russell vs Lebron is that Lebron has been at an All-NBA level from his second year in the NBA through last season - that is 19 seasons and he is still going. Russell only played 13 seasons. The longevity of Lebron's semi-peak is completely unparalleled by anybody other than Kareem, and even Kareem who had 17 semi-peak seasons was on more of a decline in his mid-30s than Lebron is currently.
Similar threads
