Let's talk Best Ball (1 Viewer)

[Ministry of Pain]

We see it a lot in the Ultimate Survivor format, and we see it in the WSL/PDSL/SSL leagues, why are there not more best ball formats for redraft money leagues each year?

It allows owners to be involved with so many more leagues. You really only need to pay attention to the WW each week and you don't have the headaches Sunday Mornings trying to figure out what Adam Schefter and Mort are broadcasting. You can remove yourself somewhat from coaches who play games with the IR and there are plenty of them in the league.

I haven't been able to start as many dynasty best ball leagues as I would like, and I understand folks actually do enjoy trying to figure out who to start each week but it comes with a lot of headaches.

What is best ball you ask? If you have a roster of 18 let's say and you own 2 QBs, both QBs are eligible each week assuming they are not on a bye week. So if McNabb scores 20 and Carson Palmer 25, you get the 25 and vice versa if McNabb had scored more. I think it is one of the best scoring systems and really rewards good solid drafters.

Do you compete in a best ball league?

 

[loose circuits]

survivor league last season was my 1st experience with it and I love it. Tried to introduce it to a few of my redrafts, but I play with too many people set in their ways and don't have any room to add any more leagues. Would make Sunday mornings a lot easier

 

[Jedi Knight]

Our league went to this method several years ago. We wouldn't have it any other way. Nothing is more aggravating than to have 4 good WR's and always seeming to start the one who is having the "off week" while the guy you left on the bench has a career day.

 

[Rockchild]

I've never played best ball but it seems intriguing. At first blush, it seems to eliminate the luck factor a little bit and reward the good drafter. Am I wrong? It changes strategy somewhat but not necessarily in a bad way.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I've never played best ball but it seems intriguing. At first blush, it seems to eliminate the luck factor a little bit and reward the good drafter. Am I wrong? It changes strategy somewhat but not necessarily in a bad way.

In some ways it eliminates it and in others it creates it. Your entire roster is eligible and that means your WR6 can suddenly have a big catch for 60 yds and a TD and crack your line up.

 

[TheWick]

I enjoy "draftmaster" leagues as we call them...but I do feel like a good player loses a bit of his edge over the others. Waiver wire strategy and weekly lineups can add to a good players advantage.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

I try to be in 2 or 3 regular leagues and the rest Best Ball/Survivor. I don't have any more time to give than the 2/3 leagues I'm in without slacking in those leagues. I set aside time in August to get some drafts in and once the drafts are done, your work is done besides following and checking in on them.

I'm not saying I'd want to be in all of those kind of leagues. I can remember being in like 8 money leagues and 2 or 3 nonmoney leagues all at once and it was crazy. It was fun but it was crazy. I feel like I have a good balance where I'm at and Best Ball/Survivor Leagues have helped accommodate that.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

I enjoy "draftmaster" leagues as we call them...but I do feel like a good player loses a bit of his edge over the others. Waiver wire strategy and weekly lineups can add to a good players advantage.

Right, there are pluses and minuses, there's no doubt. That's why you get in some regular leagues and some Best Ball leagues. It's like women, you don't have to just go out with blonde haired ones or dark haired ones, you can mix it up a bit.

 

[FantasyTrader]

I enjoy "draftmaster" leagues as we call them...but I do feel like a good player loses a bit of his edge over the others. Waiver wire strategy and weekly lineups can add to a good players advantage.

With the drafting software that's on the market today, the edge in redraft for most competitive leagues is down to waiver work, start/sit decisions and trades. But like you said, the positive of draftmaster is that you could easily play in over 100 leagues.

 

[karmarooster]

it changes strategy in a few key ways:

1) let's say you have a roster of QBs that would be absolute junk in standard redraft/dynasty:

Matt Moore

Jason Campbell

Vince Young

Alex Smith

Good luck guessing which one is going to have a decent game, but there's a very good chance at least once of them will have a decent game, perhaps even a good game. A committee like this can compete with the likes of Tier 2 QBs. As such, I'd say it significantly devalues good QBs like Philip Rivers etc., who can be counted on to have a good but not great Brees/Rodgers-like game. It takes a bit less skill IMO to research and target value QBs like Rivers/Schaub/Cutler, etc., than to just throw together a bunch of scrubs.

2) It makes the Devery Hendersons of the world more valuable. You don't have to know when he's going to explode for that 3 catch, 140 yard, 1 TD game. He's virtually unstartable in a real league but players like him are very valuable in this format. Other plays in the mold: Josh Cribbs, Bernard Berrian, Mohammed Mass, Ted Ginn (maybe), Darren Sproles, etc. Whereas these guys would only be startable in the event of an injury or very juicy matchup, they become assets in best ball.

3) Consequently, it devalues slow-but-steady WRs like TJ Housh, Donald Driver, and even Wes Welker to a certain extent.

4) Just like QBs, you can throw together a handful of scrub TEs like Bo Scaife, Anthony Fasano, Dante Rosario, and hope for the best.

One way to avoid this is to have strict roster limits, ie 15 man rosters instead of 20. that way it's just not possible to roster 4 QBs, 3 TEs, 2 defenses, and have much left over at RB and WR.

Overall, i'd say it changes strategy enough that i don't consider it "Real" fantasy football. I know fantasy football has little resemblance to real life football, but one thing that IS true to life: the Colts with Peyton Manning are a lot better than a crap team like Buffalo of Cleveland with several bad QBs.... several lesser talents don't add up to a franchise QB. In real life several bad QBs are still much worse than a team with 1 game-changer.

having said that, they are a bit of fun. i especially like them as sort of "prep" drafts for the real deal. Last year FFPC ran a series called 77s in this format, with a $77 buy in. I bought two and had a good time drafting and checking over the scores each week.... although i took my Crap-QB-by-Committee approach too far.

also, the FBGs survivor contest borrows a bit from this format, but the auction-style really changes the whole thing. I love it.

 

[bonesman]

I play in a couple for fun but if I'm putting $$$ on the line I want to get as much of an edge as possible, so I prefer a system that allows my opponents to make as many mistakes as possible.

 

[HALtheCOW]

I echo most of what has already been said. It is a great format that provides a variety of different stratagies that you cannot always use in other formats. I like my weekly starting line-up decisions, but I really like the diversity of the Survivor League the we do every year.

 

[sweetness34]

We are trying it in my main auction league this year. If we don't like it, we'll switch back to a "regular" league next year. It will be different, for sure, but I'm excited to try it out. I think there are some real advantages/+'s to a league like this - not even factoring in the ability to be in more leagues.

From what I've seen, the biggest obstacle for people not wanting to try best ball is they just don't like change - pure and simple. It's not what they're used to, so they automatically "don't like it."

 

[Go DC Yourself]

We are trying it in my main auction league this year. If we don't like it, we'll switch back to a "regular" league next year. It will be different, for sure, but I'm excited to try it out. I think there are some real advantages/+'s to a league like this - not even factoring in the ability to be in more leagues.

From what I've seen, the biggest obstacle for people not wanting to try best ball is they just don't like change - pure and simple. It's not what they're used to, so they automatically "don't like it."

Bingo as to the reaction. I had a bare majority approve it in my long-time league last year for a one-year trial. Going to send out the e-mails in another week to see whether owners want to keep it or not. IMO, picking a starting lineup is more trouble than it is worth, so I'm hoping more owners learned to like it.

 

[Abraham]

I only play best ball. I don't have the same amount of time to manage my teams during the season as I used to. Best ball lets me focus on the draft and some trades but doesn't require much from me after the season starts. I also find watching the games more enjoyable as I no longer find myself frustrated at starting the wrong guy or watching a bench player have a great game.

 

[Reaper]

I play in a couple for fun but if I'm putting $$$ on the line I want to get as much of an edge as possible, so I prefer a system that allows my opponents to make as many mistakes as possible.

Do both.You can always take advantage of something - Often in Best ball formats the drafts are early and if you think you're up on your competition you can draft in January like we do in the mock forum WSLs....I drafted in a LIVE FFPC last night - For the most part, the competition over there is pretty tough with a bunch of regulars who draft a lot in that format - Last night, someone drafted Shaun Alexander in maybe round 12.... Jeremey Shockey went in round 6 or so...... THEN AGAIN, I TOOK BRETT FAVRE IN ONE I LOVE this format, often more than the 'regular' leagues I do and I wind up drafting a lot of these teams. I've done probably a half dozen at FFPC already.

 

[Instinctive]

I like Best Ball, but like one user said above, I also like to give my opponents the maximum amount of opportunities to screw up, as I think I'm better than they (most of them) are most of the time. If Westy is hurt and he didn't check up, he should get a zero.

Best Ball changes some values and is really interesting, which I absolutely love, but I couldn't do all my leagues that way. I think both dynamics have merit.

 

[fightingillini]

I like Best Ball, but like one user said above, I also like to give my opponents the maximum amount of opportunities to screw up, as I think I'm better than they (most of them) are most of the time. If Westy is hurt and he didn't check up, he should get a zero. Best Ball changes some values and is really interesting, which I absolutely love, but I couldn't do all my leagues that way. I think both dynamics have merit.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

I like Best Ball, but like one user said above, I also like to give my opponents the maximum amount of opportunities to screw up, as I think I'm better than they (most of them) are most of the time. If Westy is hurt and he didn't check up, he should get a zero. Best Ball changes some values and is really interesting, which I absolutely love, but I couldn't do all my leagues that way. I think both dynamics have merit.

haven't done any best ball other then some here at FBG...if my fantasy game has a weakness, it would be the sunday morning decisions.....I often pick the wrong guy, but many times that is because I have some good choices to chose from (based on drafting and ww work which are my strengths).....non best ball really makes me do more homework which i don't mind, but I could see how it would be tough if you are in too many leagues....I could see how best ball could be a benefit in that if your team is loaded, you should win every week....but it would also allow the guys who didn't draft well and don't do a ton of ww work and have a team full of Devery Hendersons to catch lightning in a bottle and win sometimes when they shouldn't......also, I am not a big fan of position limitations and small rosters....which I think would almost have to be a part of best ball in some way to keep guys from hoarding positions.....finally....not to hijack....but I'd like to see some discussion on "all play" as that is something I have been taking a look at....and what about a "best ball" with "all play" added.......hmmmmmall play = playing all 11 other teams each week.......we already incorporate "all play" into our head to head leagues by giving the all play season winner a portion of the pot....I have thought about just moving in that direction over all as I think it is a good way to see the real strengths of teams....

 

[Captain Hook]

.....why are there not more best ball formats for redraft money leagues each year?

Well there are MOP - and they have been growing in the number of leagues that fill at FFPC, WCOFF and NFFC for the last several years. The providers keep adding their Draftmaster, DraftChallenge or whatever they call theirs and they keep filling up.As you suggest, many of the high stakes FF players do them not only because they can have more teams to try and cash with, but leave their valuable time during the season for FA pickups and lineups for the $$$ teams. It also gives them good draft practice - helps with software/tech issues if they are going to draft online in one of those contests in the main events and just helps them manicure their position lists or learn what people are thinking about certain players.

You will note I did NOT say for the ADP because that is radically skewed by the expanded rosters, lack of FA pickups, and best ball scoring.......in general only the first three rounds would approximate draft positions for "regular" forms of those contests.

PVH

 

[sweetness34]

As Reaper mentioned -

For those with experience, what are some ways to take advantage (from a drafting standpoint) of this format? Do you keep multiple Ks, DEFs, and TEs? Do you pass on the studs and have a really deep team of 2nd and 3rd tier guys? Will make for an interesting auction this year...

 

[FantasyTrader]

As Reaper mentioned - For those with experience, what are some ways to take advantage (from a drafting standpoint) of this format? Do you keep multiple Ks, DEFs, and TEs? Do you pass on the studs and have a really deep team of 2nd and 3rd tier guys? Will make for an interesting auction this year...

I almost always roster three each of TE/K and defense. You'll see QB almost never drafted before the third round. I recently rostered Brees at 3.08 in the Pros vs. Joes FFPC Challenge. For me personally, my best BestBall teams have come by sliding "proven vets" (Maroney, Mason, Ward) down my rankings and putting a premium on the "explosive" players.

 

[Reaper]

As Reaper mentioned - For those with experience, what are some ways to take advantage (from a drafting standpoint) of this format? Do you keep multiple Ks, DEFs, and TEs? Do you pass on the studs and have a really deep team of 2nd and 3rd tier guys? Will make for an interesting auction this year...

It depends on YOU....What I do is I work backwards and I see what players I'm comfortable with at the end the last "startable" tiers... And this often changes for me from Winter leagues WSL's to now.... But, "what is the last RB I'll possibly draft without it being a complete flyer like Brian Westbrook or Joe Mcknight"... I usually want 5 RB's or so, So., I'll make sure I have my 5 before that cutoff.... (depending also on roster size... The Mock forum drafts drop to 18 players which makes 4 RB's more likely and grabbing them earlier also more likely for me)QB as well, If I know I can get 2-3 QB's in round 9-11, then I keep that in mind as the QB's are rolling off the board and I won't let myself get forced into a QB run in round 5.The position I'm least comfortable with late is the one I tend to jump at earlier.... Being flexible you need to have a feel for value though, I just did a FPPC 77 draft and couldn't pass up on Tom Brady in round 6!!!!!!And for example, in that same draft I grabbed 4 RB's in round 9-12 right were I felt the cutoff would be.... Sproles, LT, Thomas Jones, Willis Mcgahee....... To go with Frank Gore from round 1 and Addai from round 4...I think that makes a pretty good 6 Strong RB core.....

 

[BoltBacker]

We see it a lot in the Ultimate Survivor format, and we see it in the WSL/PDSL/SSL leagues, why are there not more best ball formats for redraft money leagues each year? It allows owners to be involved with so many more leagues. You really only need to pay attention to the WW each week and you don't have the headaches Sunday Mornings trying to figure out what Adam Schefter and Mort are broadcasting. You can remove yourself somewhat from coaches who play games with the IR and there are plenty of them in the league.I haven't been able to start as many dynasty best ball leagues as I would like, and I understand folks actually do enjoy trying to figure out who to start each week but it comes with a lot of headaches.What is best ball you ask? If you have a roster of 18 let's say and you own 2 QBs, both QBs are eligible each week assuming they are not on a bye week. So if McNabb scores 20 and Carson Palmer 25, you get the 25 and vice versa if McNabb had scored more. I think it is one of the best scoring systems and really rewards good solid drafters. Do you compete in a best ball league?

I don't get a chance to say this a lot but Ministry of Pain I completely agree with you.As for the camp that enjoys his opponents having opportunities to screw up, I always consider it more of a penalty for those people that actually have a life and can't/won't/don't want to dedicate every single Sunday(almost the entire day to adjust the active/inactives) to fantasy sports. I like both slow drafts/auctions and best ball. It seems more inclusive to me. The longer I'm in the hobby the less time I'm willing to spend "dedicated" to it. I like the idea of beating my opponent because I made a better call on a majority of the players I acquired through the draft and FA, not because your opponent attended his best friends wedding over the weekend and wasn't tied to a computer all day long.... or traveled several time zones for his mothers birthday party. The SAP!

 

[Ministry of Pain]

For anyone interested in playing I am going to do a redraft this Sunday Night.

Here is the thread Link

We have about 5-6 spots open.

 

[sweetness34]

“…have strict roster limits, ie 15 man rosters instead of 20. that way it's just not possible to roster 4 QBs, 3 TEs, 2 defenses, and have much left over at RB and WR.”

“…also, I am not a big fan of position limitations and small rosters....which I think would almost have to be a part of best ball in some way to keep guys from hoarding positions.....”

Do you think this is really true for a BB league? (I honestly don’t know.) I’ve never liked the idea of roster limits either, but it may be something I need to consider. Our auction league has 2 flex positions (start 1/1/2/1/1/1 – flex includes QB, but both flex can’t be at the same position). Would that make hoarding any more or less likely? I don’t want a guy drafting 6 QBs – though he’d obviously not have much left for the other 5 positions. We currently have 17 man rosters. Is that too big?

Thanks for the input.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

One nuance I always wanted to add but have not done yet is a hybrid league of best ball where you have a roster of 20 let's say and you start 1QB/2RB/2WR/1TE and then you can pick 3 more players let's say to add into eligible starters. Meaning if you want 2 QBs to start so you can maximize your points that's fine. A taxi squad of sorts but your entire roster would not be eligible, simply the starters you pick out and then a taxi squad of say 3-5 you can draw from for a little more punch.

 

[sweetness34]

One nuance I always wanted to add but have not done yet is a hybrid league of best ball where you have a roster of 20 let's say and you start 1QB/2RB/2WR/1TE and then you can pick 3 more players let's say to add into eligible starters. Meaning if you want 2 QBs to start so you can maximize your points that's fine. A taxi squad of sorts but your entire roster would not be eligible, simply the starters you pick out and then a taxi squad of say 3-5 you can draw from for a little more punch.

I thought of that exact thing - since guys are so set on "choosing their starters." That seems like a decent compromise. However, on some levels, it seems like you might as well do one or the other, but not "both." MFL allows that, but the commish (me) would have to do it all manually every week. That doesn't sound like fun. I'm with ya MOP, it is an idea worth exploring though.

 

[karmarooster]

“…have strict roster limits, ie 15 man rosters instead of 20. that way it's just not possible to roster 4 QBs, 3 TEs, 2 defenses, and have much left over at RB and WR.”“…also, I am not a big fan of position limitations and small rosters....which I think would almost have to be a part of best ball in some way to keep guys from hoarding positions.....”Do you think this is really true for a BB league? (I honestly don’t know.) I’ve never liked the idea of roster limits either, but it may be something I need to consider. Our auction league has 2 flex positions (start 1/1/2/1/1/1 – flex includes QB, but both flex can’t be at the same position). Would that make hoarding any more or less likely? I don’t want a guy drafting 6 QBs – though he’d obviously not have much left for the other 5 positions. We currently have 17 man rosters. Is that too big?Thanks for the input.

Usually, best ball leagues feature larger rosters (around 20) because they are thought of as draft-and-forget. sometimes they have waivers, sometimes not. I was just saying that if you restrict rosters to something smaller like 15 players, it keeps the strategy from getting too far from standard. For example, with larger rosters, it makes more sense to sacrifice quality for quantity at QB and TE. With smaller rosters, if you only have space for 2 or 3 QBs/TEs, it dictates you take better players.Also, "hoarding" positions usually involves taking several upper-tier players at the same position, like Schaub-Rivers-Cutler all on one team. Instead, i think best ball formats encourage you to take several crappy QBs. IMO that's not exactly hoarding as it is dumpster diving for multiple options.I think your roster size is about where it should be.

 

[Captain Hook]

“…have strict roster limits, ie 15 man rosters instead of 20. that way it's just not possible to roster 4 QBs, 3 TEs, 2 defenses, and have much left over at RB and WR.”“…also, I am not a big fan of position limitations and small rosters....which I think would almost have to be a part of best ball in some way to keep guys from hoarding positions.....”Do you think this is really true for a BB league? (I honestly don’t know.) I’ve never liked the idea of roster limits either, but it may be something I need to consider. Our auction league has 2 flex positions (start 1/1/2/1/1/1 – flex includes QB, but both flex can’t be at the same position). Would that make hoarding any more or less likely? I don’t want a guy drafting 6 QBs – though he’d obviously not have much left for the other 5 positions. We currently have 17 man rosters. Is that too big?Thanks for the input.

Usually, best ball leagues feature larger rosters (around 20) because they are thought of as draft-and-forget. sometimes they have waivers, sometimes not. I was just saying that if you restrict rosters to something smaller like 15 players, it keeps the strategy from getting too far from standard. For example, with larger rosters, it makes more sense to sacrifice quality for quantity at QB and TE. With smaller rosters, if you only have space for 2 or 3 QBs/TEs, it dictates you take better players.Also, "hoarding" positions usually involves taking several upper-tier players at the same position, like Schaub-Rivers-Cutler all on one team. Instead, i think best ball formats encourage you to take several crappy QBs. IMO that's not exactly hoarding as it is dumpster diving for multiple options.I think your roster size is about where it should be.

IF they are true draft/follow best ball leagues where there are no free agent pickups, then the rosters are much larger - usually 26But if it was just the best ball component, ie not lineup setting but you had weekly/monthly free agent acquisitions then smaller roster sizes would workYour point about sacrificing quality for quantity with larger rosters is off base in the high stakes version of this. Drafting three good QB early would seriously impair the quality at other positionsDrafting three or four QB very late would not only put you well behind the majority of the league in scoring at the position, but leave you vulnerable to a late run on the positionMore normal for teams that do not take a QB early is to either draft two somewhere in rounds 7/8/9 and then one late (or four with one very late) OR more likely to just take all three in consecutive picks in 7/8/9 or 8/9/10 - if you don't roster a few decent QB at some point there could be a run which would leave you short (and this is just as likely to happen in later rounds with K and DST).........in fact there was a notorious draft where one FF website sluffed drafting a defense too late and then a concentrated run before his next pick left him with NO DST in that draft.

 

[sweetness34]

Our league will still allow waivers and trades etc. The Best Ball part will be no submitting starters - everything else will be like a "normal" league.

Any other thoughts on positional limits?