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Liberal Intolerance (1 Viewer)

Dexter said:
Liberals are the ones telling us how we are uneducated idiots and how smart and tolerant they are.. We are stupid apes that don't know what's good for us. The Reagan quotes sums up perfectly what we think when we read your drivel. You think you know soooooo much. 
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More stereotyping on your part. Lots of it.

Everyone (liberals included) needs to be open to the possibility that they don't know everything, and that there are people out there who have put the work in and accumulated the information necessary to be considered experts in their area of focus. Blanket dismissal of people who've earned the right and reputation of being considered an expert is not a productive approach to anything.

 
Gr00vus said:
More stereotyping on your part. Lots of it.

Everyone (liberals included) needs to be open to the possibility that they don't know everything, and that there are people out there who have put the work in and accumulated the information necessary to be considered experts in their area of focus. Blanket dismissal of people who've earned the right and reputation of being considered an expert is not a productive approach to anything.
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The old take every single word as literal gospel to try and prove your point.   :rolleyes:  FYSA when someone says toss me that knife they don't actually mean to through it at them.  There's a huge difference between saying liberals and all liberals. One last tip when discussing political science especially on a message board, there are NO absolutes.

 
Dexter said:
The old take every single word as literal gospel to try and prove your point.   :rolleyes:  FYSA when someone says toss me that knife they don't actually mean to through it at them.  There's a huge difference between saying liberals and all liberals. One last tip when discussing political science especially on a message board, there are NO absolutes.
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I took the words as you wrote them. Didn't seem to be much room for interpretation there when you simply say "Liberals" with no qualification in your post - most people would assume you're talking about all liberals there. If you don't mean that, be more precise with your language, less chance of being misunderstood. I don't know what you're intending with the absolutes line. I've been pretty painfully careful not to state opiniony political sciency things in terms of absolutes here.

 
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Dexter said:
Liberals are the ones telling us how we are uneducated idiots and how smart and tolerant they are.. We are stupid apes that don't know what's good for us. The Reagan quotes sums up perfectly what we think when we read your drivel. You think you know soooooo much. 
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Any argument in any way supporting Trump's POV that invokes Reagan is heresy to Ronald Reagan and everything he stood for.

The Russian leader is pleased at the outcome of the U.S. election. Folks must be too young to know anything about Reagan first hand, at least that's the benefit of the doubt I can offer. Here's a hint: he wouldn't be pleased.

 
Scoresman said:
I think ignorant, redneck, xenophobic, homophobic, racist, Nascar watching, obese, inbreds are definitely deserving of mockery mainly because its pretty despicable to deny people rights such as marriage and abortion, but I wouldn't seriously suggest they not have a seat at the table.  
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I'll give you marriage.  No impact on me, but huge impact on those of the same sex that wish to marry.  Abortion is a non-starter for me as I am pro-life with regard to abortion and capital punishment.  The right of abortion just seems so close to state sanctioned murder.  However, I do understand there are cases where the mother's life is in peril, so it makes for a tough decision on when abortion is okay and when it should not be allowed.  Unfortunately, there is no middle ground - one side wants complete abolition and the other wants unfettered access. 

 
Grace Under Pressure said:
Any argument in any way supporting Trump's POV that invokes Reagan is heresy to Ronald Reagan and everything he stood for.

The Russian leader is pleased at the outcome of the U.S. election. Folks must be too young to know anything about Reagan first hand, at least that's the benefit of the doubt I can offer. Here's a hint: he wouldn't be pleased.
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Russia, Russia, Russia! Give it a rest nobody is buying it.

ETA: You don't speak for Reagan you have NO idea what his position would be, Before you say I did the same thing I didn't I said that is what WE think not what HE would believe. 

 
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Protesting and rioting after a Presidential election?  Talk about some confused people in this country.  Essentially,  if the Left doesn't get what it wants,  they have lemmings who riot and destroy ####.  You guys already tried this! It didn't work! Act like a civil human being and you might get something accomplished in life.  You've done this all to yourselves. 

 
flapgreen said:
Protesting and rioting after a Presidential election?  Talk about some confused people in this country.  Essentially,  if the Left doesn't get what it wants,  they have lemmings who riot and destroy ####.  You guys already tried this! It didn't work! Act like a civil human being and you might get something accomplished in life.  You've done this all to yourselves. 
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Yeah, we have a dictator now. #### free speech!

 
flapgreen said:
Protesting and rioting after a Presidential election?  Talk about some confused people in this country.  Essentially,  if the Left doesn't get what it wants,  they have lemmings who riot and destroy ####.  You guys already tried this! It didn't work! Act like a civil human being and you might get something accomplished in life.  You've done this all to yourselves. 
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I personally accept the results, but I can understand the frustration.  Hillary won the popular vote, and the electoral college is an antiquated system that really serves no purpose in a modern election.

 
flapgreen said:
Protesting and rioting after a Presidential election?  Talk about some confused people in this country.  Essentially,  if the Left doesn't get what it wants,  they have lemmings who riot and destroy ####.  You guys already tried this! It didn't work! Act like a civil human being and you might get something accomplished in life.  You've done this all to yourselves. 
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On November 8th, I'm voting for Trump.

On November 9th, if Trump loses, I'm grabbing my musket.

You in?

— Joe Walsh (@WalshFreedom) October 26, 2016



CNN's Jake Tapper asked: "What exactly does that mean?"


@WalshFreedom what exactly does that mean?

— Jake Tapper (@jaketapper) October 26, 2016



"It means protesting. Participating in acts of civil disobedience. Doing what it takes to get our country back," Walsh responded.


@jaketapper It means protesting. Participating in acts of civil disobedience. Doing what it takes to get our country back.

— Joe Walsh (@WalshFreedom) October 26, 2016


 
flapgreen said:
Protesting and rioting after a Presidential election?  Talk about some confused people in this country.  Essentially,  if the Left doesn't get what it wants,  they have lemmings who riot and destroy ####.  You guys already tried this! It didn't work! Act like a civil human being and you might get something accomplished in life.  You've done this all to yourselves. 
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My link

 
Dickies said:
I personally accept the results, but I can understand the frustration.  Hillary won the popular vote, and the electoral college is an antiquated system that really serves no purpose in a modern election.
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She won the popular vote (which is still not finalized) - at this point - by 390K.  Means nothing in a voter pool of 120 million.  Besides, we get it, the electoral college is antiquated when the left loses.  Otherwise, it works great.

 
MaxThreshold said:
She won the popular vote (which is still not finalized) - at this point - by 390K.  Means nothing in a voter pool of 120 million.  Besides, we get it, the electoral college is antiquated when the left loses.  Otherwise, it works great.
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It's a silly system regardless of who wins....  If the tables were turned I'm sure conservatives would be going nuts.

 
Dickies said:
It's a silly system regardless of who wins....  If the tables were turned I'm sure conservatives would be going nuts.
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This whole debate about popular vote is meaningless. If the election was determined by popular vote the entire campaign strategies would change, voters in hard core blue or red states who went third party may have changed their vote, or maybe they didn't vote at all because their state was predetermined... so this line that 'well actually Hillary got more votes' is a complete non-starter. It's like your team loses but you keep bringing up that you had more hits or yards of offense... it's not what matters. If it was the entire game would be played differently.

 
sublimeone said:
This whole debate about popular vote is meaningless. If the election was determined by popular vote the entire campaign strategies would change, voters in hard core blue or red states who went third party may have changed their vote, or maybe they didn't vote at all because their state was predetermined... so this line that 'well actually Hillary got more votes' is a complete non-starter. It's like your team loses but you keep bringing up that you had more hits or yards of offense... it's not what matters. If it was the entire game would be played differently.
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Thank you!!!!!!!   It boggles the mind that these people are saying she won the popular vote so she deserves to be president.  Like a team missing a FG early in the first quarter and then losing the game by 2 points.   They will scream that had they made the FG, they would have won the game.   Ummmmmm....no, the game would have played out differently from both teams had that FG gone through the uprights.    

 
sublimeone said:
This whole debate about popular vote is meaningless. If the election was determined by popular vote the entire campaign strategies would change, voters in hard core blue or red states who went third party may have changed their vote, or maybe they didn't vote at all because their state was predetermined... so this line that 'well actually Hillary got more votes' is a complete non-starter. It's like your team loses but you keep bringing up that you had more hits or yards of offense... it's not what matters. If it was the entire game would be played differently.
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Exactly. They may have actually run a commercial in Maryland and not spent every other day in NC or Florida. 

MD gets two visits from candidates every 4 years and they are from the democratic primaries. 

 
The EC is a great part of the process. It is important that people in ID, SD, WI matter as much as CA, NY and FL. If Hillary weren't so cocky, she would have been in some more states she took for granted, like WI and MI.

 
sublimeone said:
This whole debate about popular vote is meaningless. If the election was determined by popular vote the entire campaign strategies would change, voters in hard core blue or red states who went third party may have changed their vote, or maybe they didn't vote at all because their state was predetermined... so this line that 'well actually Hillary got more votes' is a complete non-starter. It's like your team loses but you keep bringing up that you had more hits or yards of offense... it's not what matters. If it was the entire game would be played differently.
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And MD, among other states, is looking at bringing about that change.

 
Anybody whining about the results in terms of the results should be changed needs to just stop. But now that we've had not one, but two occasions in the last five elections where the winner of the popular vote did not win the election, it is worth reconsidering the issue for the future. There is something a bit off about that.

 
Apple Jack said:
Anybody whining about the results in terms of the results should be changed needs to just stop. But now that we've had not one, but two occasions in the last five elections where the winner of the popular vote did not win the election, it is worth reconsidering the issue for the future. There is something a bit off about that.
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Eliminating the EC without coming up with something similar would probably lead to serious secession attempts.

 
sublimeone said:
This whole debate about popular vote is meaningless. If the election was determined by popular vote the entire campaign strategies would change, voters in hard core blue or red states who went third party may have changed their vote, or maybe they didn't vote at all because their state was predetermined... so this line that 'well actually Hillary got more votes' is a complete non-starter. It's like your team loses but you keep bringing up that you had more hits or yards of offense... it's not what matters. If it was the entire game would be played differently.
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Believe it or not, I agree with you.  I have never said we should change the results, all I said is that I can understand why people feel the way they do.  I do agree with them that it's a stupid system, but it's how the rules are set and we need to live with it.  I'm in CA, a state which I imagine (but have no data/proof) gets really low voter turnout because it's so overwhelmingly blue that many don't feel the need to vote.  Making people feel like their individual vote is worth an actual individual vote is a good thing IMHO, and maybe it makes the nominees focus on the entire country instead of Florida.

 
Apple Jack said:
Anybody whining about the results in terms of the results should be changed needs to just stop. But now that we've had not one, but two occasions in the last five elections where the winner of the popular vote did not win the election, it is worth reconsidering the issue for the future. There is something a bit off about that.
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Republicans have won the popular vote only once in nearly 30 years since 1988.

The EC won't change as it would require a constitutional amendment, and that would involve too many currently Republican leaning states giving up their power.

Be that as it may, Bill Clinton and Obama were both Democratic two term Presidents, working within the existing governing structure, such as it is. They had charisma. Democrats learned a hard lesson they can't take formerly blue states like PA, MI and WI for granted. Post-mortem-wise, formerly liberal Union labor voting blocks kind of a moot point in a bleak, desolate, jobless wilderness and landscape. Factors such as who was the superior debater that liberals assumed would weigh strongly based on past precedence seem ridiculously quaint in retrospect, when the scale and scope of rage at establishment* have revealed themselves. It was also wrongly assumed being a blatant racist and sexist, vulgar and uncouth, etc. would disqualify him, but perhaps a cautionary tale that basic norms of civility can get tossed out if a given part of the electorate thinks their very survival is at stake. Even seemingly obvious disqualifiers imo like Trump appearing to cozy up to Putin and espousing profoundly ignorant ideas about nuclear weapons (why can't we use them, wants to be "unpredictable", stands for proliferation to Saudi Arabia) seem in the end to have been too abstract and removed from everyday concerns to make a difference. Same with rejecting a candidate that campaigned for more solar power tech, opting instead for the one that thinks global warning is a hoax perpetrated by the Chinese. It shockingly eclipsed even a core consideration such as temperament (reportedly 60-70% lacked confidence in him). Americans have long had a sense of Manifest Destiny and being the Great Hope for Democracy (though our foreign policy often dictated by greed and blatant, naked, transparent self-interest - for instance, less likely to intervene in African genocides than if oil is in play). There may be a misplaced tendency to assume we are destined to always be around. Rome probably thought the same thing. I want to read the Decline and Fall of Roman Civilization by Gibbon to look for parallels and warning signs when order and basic civilities begin to break down.                   

Michael Moore claimed Clinton lost by about 11,000 votes in MI, and 90,000+ voted all the way down the ballot but left top blank. I'm not sure we can conclude all of them would have voted Clinton if they hadn't abstained, though? MOST of the demonstrations have been confined to blue states so moot point, but heard TX and possibly one blue flipped state in Rust Belt, Great Lakes area recently. If any of THOSE demonstrators didn't vote, they are worse than fools.

* It will look hypocritical if Trump begins his quest to "Drain the Swamp" of career politicians with a cabinet of... career politicians.

A RS writer alluded to the movie Idiocracy being cited repeatedly in the election cycle, and after everybody formerly assumed it was a frivolous futuristic comedy, it turned out to be a prescient dystopian horror/documentary.   

The past few months made me aware that many/most Democrats/Republicans exist in their respective media bubbles, listening to their own idioms, tropes and caricatures of the other side, and don't really listen to each other. Those that did make a concerted effort to try to bridge the chasm and even abyss were rare.    

It would be remiss to not mention Trump worked his ### off, and Clinton took too much time off, part of a pattern of entitlement and taken things too much for granted. People laughed at the rallies, but when the election effectively hinged on a razor thin margin of a few hundred thousand votes distributed between a handful of states tipping the scales, that may well have made the difference ultimately? I was disturbed by Comey (some say it didn't make the difference but have no way of knowing that). Same with Russian hacking potentially tipping the scales. But "in farness", karma and payback is a #####! We have engaged in regime change countless times. If you are in a Gangs of New York-style riot and hit somebody over the head with a pipe, than somebody else hits YOU over the head with a pipe, it is kind of silly and ridiculous to piously exhort a policeman nearby to do something about this terrible person being mean to you. It stings, because "we" are used to being a dominant super power and being #1 at everything, hard to complain about the fact that Russia was just doing something illegal that we have already done ourselves many times in the past (in one form or another). It is alarming that Trump denies their involvement (maybe like OJ looking for the "real killer" after being exonerated for murder, now he can pursue the proverbial "400 lb. hacker"?), possibly because he was the beneficiary this time.

I can't say I fully understand what happened and am still processing it, but at least have an appreciation of how much anti-establishment anger there must have been in formerly blue states like MI and WI to choose Trump despite his many faults (it does beg the question whether a billionaire is "just like them"** and makes any sense to be their advocate/wrecking ball?). One of the few things most can agree on from either side is that this was the first election where BOTH had higher than 50% disapproval rates. For many, this wasn't an ideological, red/blue choice. Presumably many voted for Trump NOT because he is a Republican (because he really isn't), but because he is an outsider, representing a complete rebuke and repudiation of so called elitism and globalism. Anything but a populist revolt might not have generated the momentum to propel Trump into the White House given his many and deep flaws.   

** Trump's team reportedly told Kasich (before Pence) he could handle foreign AND domestic policy while Trump "Made America Great Again". So is Pence really going to be calling the shots? He has been called Christian first, Conservative second and Republican third. Bannon has been mentioned in either an adviser or cabinet role (he has been the epicenter and ground zero for Republican Party destruction rhetoric). Coupling his message with Conway's delivery was a devastating one-two punch Clinton didn't have an answer for.


This Man Is the Most Dangerous Political Operative in America


Steve Bannon runs the new vast right-wing conspiracy—and he wants to take down both Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush.

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/graphics/2015-steve-bannon/   

We should listen to this prognosticator in next election (and future)

Professor who predicted 30 years of presidential elections correctly called a Trump win in September

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/28/professor-whos-predicted-30-years-of-presidential-elections-correctly-is-doubling-down-on-a-trump-win/

 
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Collectively the most hypocritical people on the planet.  Now they're trying to sign a petition to change the outcome of the election.  Would rather change the constitution than concede defeat.  Smh.  Geez, you idiots. Should've gotten your dumbasses out and voted.  Too late now. 

 
flapgreen said:
Collectively the most hypocritical people on the planet.  Now they're trying to sign a petition to change the outcome of the election.  Would rather change the constitution than concede defeat.  Smh.  Geez, you idiots. Should've gotten your dumbasses out and voted.  Too late now. 
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First, when is the last time an online petition did anything?  Never.  I seem to recall you saying in other threads that the left can't see both sides.  Maybe you should try to see it from their view.  In their mind they did vote, and more of them voted Hillary than Trump.

 
sublimeone said:
This whole debate about popular vote is meaningless. If the election was determined by popular vote the entire campaign strategies would change, voters in hard core blue or red states who went third party may have changed their vote, or maybe they didn't vote at all because their state was predetermined... so this line that 'well actually Hillary got more votes' is a complete non-starter. It's like your team loses but you keep bringing up that you had more hits or yards of offense... it's not what matters. If it was the entire game would be played differently.
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Agree wholeheartedly. As someone who lived in CA for 15 years, there was never a point to voting the outcome was predetermined. If it were a popular vote I can see millions more of R's voting because they would have a reason to in that state alone. 

 
Dickies said:
Maybe you should try to see it from their view. 
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No disrespect, but we did.  For the last 8 years, after they won.  And the last couple of days/nights, after they lost.  The left overplayed their hand (as the right will probably do now) and treated dissent to their worldview as deplorable, and now react to an alternative worldview with dissent.  Yes, it's Constitutional.  No, it's not tolerant.

 
Loan Sharks said:
Agree wholeheartedly. As someone who lived in CA for 15 years, there was never a point to voting the outcome was predetermined. If it were a popular vote I can see millions more of R's voting because they would have a reason to in that state alone. 
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So we agree the EC should be scrapped. :hifive:  

 
Dickies said:
So we agree the EC should be scrapped. :hifive:  
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I don't think it matters either way. You are making a presumption that a popular vote would lead to a different outcome. I don't think it will. You are making the same mistake a guy used to make in my fantasy league for years he would complain that he should win because he always drafted the WRs that had the most receptions despite us not being a PPR league. So we changed the rules to include PPR and lo and behold then everyone drafted PPR WRS and he no longer could be the king of a meaningless stat. Congrats Hillary "won" PPR in a non PPR league. And her fans are trying to take the winnings from the league champ because he drafted WR that got touch downs and yardage. I am embarrassed for the demonstrators. 

 
Loan Sharks said:
I don't think it matters either way. You are making a presumption that a popular vote would lead to a different outcome. I don't think it will. You are making the same mistake a guy used to make in my fantasy league for years he would complain that he should win because he always drafted the WRs that had the most receptions despite us not being a PPR league. So we changed the rules to include PPR and lo and behold then everyone drafted PPR WRS and he no longer could be the king of a meaningless stat. Congrats Hillary "won" PPR in a non PPR league. And her fans are trying to take the winnings from the league champ because he drafted WR that got touch downs and yardage. I am embarrassed for the demonstrators. 
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Nope, as I have said in the other threads today, I believe a popular vote would encourage more people from both sides to get out and vote.  The notion that anyone's vote is worthless because they are in a voting bloc that is heavily one-sided no longer would apply.  I have no clue which side would be more encouraged to get out and vote, but I think it's a good thing regardless.  Trump very well may have gotten the popular vote if the EC wasn't in play, and then people would have absolutely nothing to complain about.

For the record, I did not vote for Hillary.

 
Underachievers said:
Thank you!!!!!!!   It boggles the mind that these people are saying she won the popular vote so she deserves to be president.  Like a team missing a FG early in the first quarter and then losing the game by 2 points.   They will scream that had they made the FG, they would have won the game.   Ummmmmm....no, the game would have played out differently from both teams had that FG gone through the uprights.    
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Popular vote is not a true indication in a lot of states, if you are of the minority party why bother to vote. I did not vote in Mississippi because I know Trump would win the state. They only really matter in toss-up states. 

Texas, Oregon, Washington, New York, Texas as examples. 

If you want real votes look up any state that was won by less than say 3% of the vote or some reasonable number. Those really are the only states that might matter.

Crap now I have to go look the electoral map again.

 
GrandpaRox said:
Popular vote is not a true indication in a lot of states, if you are of the minority party why bother to vote. I did not vote in Mississippi because I know Trump would win the state. They only really matter in toss-up states. 

Texas, Oregon, Washington, New York, Texas as examples. 

If you want real votes look up any state that was won by less than say 3% of the vote or some reasonable number. Those really are the only states that might matter.

Crap now I have to go look the electoral map again.
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You've gotta be kidding me.  :mellow:

 
flapgreen said:
Collectively the most hypocritical people on the planet.  Now they're trying to sign a petition to change the outcome of the election.  Would rather change the constitution than concede defeat.  Smh.  Geez, you idiots. Should've gotten your dumbasses out and voted.  Too late now. 
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They were too busy sitting by the phone waiting for a call in the hopes of getting something for free.

Clinton News Network is all over this. Sorry, losers, no refunds.

 
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Or look at the swing states: 

Trump won 7 for a total of 17,117,643  Fl, Pa,NC Mi,Oh, Wis and Iowa

Clinton won 4 for a total of 4,012,933 VA, CO, NV and NH

So in swing states, where the votes really counted, Trump absolutely crushed her. by more than 13 million votes

 
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