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Lions FA moves (1 Viewer)

Tornacl

Footballguy
So far, the Lions have proven that the more things change, the more they stay the same. Having one of the worst defenses the league has ever seen to compliment a periennially bad offensive line, the Lions go for the obvious moves (at least for them) to sign a backup running back (MoMo) and spend a lot of time working out a deal with a unproven 2nd receiver (Washington). Neither one of those guys will make a difference in turning this team around, so why waste time signing them at the start of free agency?

Why are they even wasting time talking to players at those positions? They should be focusing on their biggest needs - particularly DE, DT, LB, CB, SS, and FS (I think that is all of the defensive positions). If you want to get any of the top players at those positions, you have to meet with them, which you can't do if you're meeting with WRs and RBs.

No wonder nobody ever wants to play there.

 
My guess is they're looking to sign fillers at some positions and will address the key ingredients in the draft.

 
The one major problem, new coach or not, is that it's Detroit. Players know the history. They obviously know what happened last season, and that they are a long ways away from contending. They know who the owner is, and what his reputation is. And many of the players roaming around as FAs are veterans that don't want to be on a team that seems to almost always be in rebuilding mode...

I knew it would be like this. I just hoped they could sign maybe one or two veteran FAs, but it doesn't look like they are going to be able to do much. I was hoping they could sign some veterans to show others that they aren't afraid to sign there, and perhaps thaw the ice a little...

 
Hang in there, Lions' fans. I think you finally the got the right HC in place. It'll just take some time. And I dont think there was really all that much getting done on day 1. Pittsburgh hasnt made a single move to my knowledge. Its all about the draft, and youve got a ton of nice picks.

 
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They are a long ways from contending. There is no reason why they should be spending a ton of $$$ in free agency when they are a long ways from contending for a championship. If they spent a lot of money in free agency they would probably win 1 or 2 more games next year. All that does though is worsen their draft position in 2010 and hamper their ability to draft young impact players through the draft. In my opinion, in the long term, they are better off spending 2 to 3 years fixing their team through the draft rather then trying to fix it through free agency.

 
Why do the Lions need ANY FA moves? They're not close to winning anything. Re-sign core players, draft. Until they can master that, they're just throwing money away in free agency. After 2-3 good drafts, then they can start signing guys. Most FAs are 27-32 years old, not exactly where the Lions want to be.

 
Why do the Lions need ANY FA moves? They're not close to winning anything. Re-sign core players, draft. Until they can master that, they're just throwing money away in free agency. After 2-3 good drafts, then they can start signing guys. Most FAs are 27-32 years old, not exactly where the Lions want to be.
:football: Other then I would add that you need some veterans to help your young core of players develop and begin a new culture in Detroit.
 
I'm not saying that they should be signing guys like Haynseworth, that would've been foolish, but there a lot of guys that could start for them on defense without costing too much. They do have a lot of good draft picks, but not as many as the holes they have to fill. I would've liked to see them try to address a few spots so that they could go into the draft with some hint of a plan.

I guess the advantage of being this bad is that they can draft like the good teams. They are so bad that they can comfortably draft best player available, and they will all be in areas of need (except for WR1 and RB).

 
Rome wasn't built in a day. It took a bit longer than that.Rebuilding the Lions will take a bit longer still.
They've been in rebuilding mode since Bobby Lane left. I just thought that if they were going to go out and sign ANY free agents, they would've at least been at positions of need. RB and WR are about the ONLY positions on the team (maybe besides K) that they didn't need to worry as much about. When you're getting backups and depth, you can wait until later in free agency (or later rounds of the draft) to get it. Defensive starters are much harder to come by. The whole problem with Millen was he spent too much effort trying to get a #2 WR, looks like his protege learned well in that regard (except Washington doesn't seem to be that good.)I'll be surprised if they don't draft Stafford. Why? Because that would be about the worst move they could make - which is exactly why I expect it.
 
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My two cents and soap box time.

Once upon a time, the Detroit Tigers lost 119 Billion games. Then during the off season, the Tigers signed one Ivan(Pudge) Rodriguez. The signing of a marquee Free Agent brought others to town and we went the World Series.

::Hold Beer in the Air, bow head, mutter "F the Cardinals"::

This is what we need to do. The draftees have no choice, the come to the Lions because they have to. But we sign one marquee name and show that we mean business, then more will come.

Ok, now this may hurt Lions fan, but lets review.

We drafted Barry, we drafted Moore and we signed Mitchel as a FA. We also signed whats his name from the Saints as a Defensive FA. other bit players followed. We went to the NFC championship game.

Bah. I will tell you what though. The day Detroit wins the Super Bowl, we will burn this town down like no one could even imagine.

Peace

 
Ok, now this may hurt Lions fan, but lets review.

We drafted Barry, we drafted Moore and we signed Mitchel as a FA. We also signed whats his name from the Saints as a Defensive FA. other bit players followed. We went to the NFC championship game.
Pat Swilling and he wasn't a FA signing - they traded for him. In fact, even though it looked like an okay trade at the time - in retrospect it's actually considered one of the worst trades in franchise history.
 
Rome wasn't built in a day. It took a bit longer than that.Rebuilding the Lions will take a bit longer still.
They've been in rebuilding mode since Bobby Lane left.
They haven't been rebuilding. They've been patching things up with spackle and holding it together with duct tape and then giving it a spit polish.
You're right.They had the worst season in NFL history, and NOW they have to rebuild. LOL. They went 0-16, and hadn't even started a rebuilding project, because they wee the 4th oldest team in the league. Man it's painful to be a Lions fan. Fan is a pretty strong word, its more like being an addict. Everything they do makes you mad, every move they make shows you that they don't care about winning. Every Sunday you think that "I'm never going to watch these fools again," or "I'm going to find a new team." Before you know it, the season's over and you think they've hit rock bottom. Surely, this season must have woke them up, and finally they'll start making some real changes and actually improve. Then the season starts, and you find yourself in the gutter again.
 
I like what the Lions are doing.

Mo Morris gives a change of pace and decent backup RB to Kevin Smith next year and is a clean guy in the locker room with no baggage.

They dont need a star WR to play with Calvin, they need a quality player and Washington had some nice games over the years for Pitt.

They key is to build via the draft, not thru free agency.

I am assuming they take Jason Smith from Baylor with 1st overall - and lean towards defense with 20th overall.

A great start IMHO.

 
Ok, now this may hurt Lions fan, but lets review.

We drafted Barry, we drafted Moore and we signed Mitchel as a FA. We also signed whats his name from the Saints as a Defensive FA. other bit players followed. We went to the NFC championship game.
Pat Swilling and he wasn't a FA signing - they traded for him. In fact, even though it looked like an okay trade at the time - in retrospect it's actually considered one of the worst trades in franchise history.
Yeah that pick they traded would have been Willie Roaf :loco:
 
Is there stupid in the air in Detroit? What with the auto companies, and yet another GM and coaching staff that don't realize that you'd better rebuild the o-line and d-line before you start putting icing on the cake?

Yeah, Rome wasn't built in a day. But it wouldn't have been built at all if the Romans had built chic boutiques instead of laying the foundation for the walls.

 
If the Lions got real smart and picked up Rocky Bernard at DT and Jason Brown at Guard and I'd be the happiest man alive from a FA standpoint. Draft Curry at #1 and best avail middle linebacker at #20. Grab an OT in the second and a couple corners in the 3rd.

D would instantly be able to keep the Lions in games and the Oline would be vastly improved.

Next year grab a QB.

That's how I'd roll.

 
From a personnel standpoint, this Lions team is the least talented group I have ever seen. There are less than 5 players on this roster that would be starters on any other NFL team, and one of those players is a kicker. So whether it's through FA or the draft, the entire roster needs to be overhauled. There is no identity and literally nothing to build around. You can't build a team around WR, so even though Calvin Johnson is a stud, he's not a cornerstone. I agree that OL and DL is where it starts. But almost every position on the team needs an upgrade and it won't all be filled via the draft.

 
My two cents and soap box time.Once upon a time, the Detroit Tigers lost 119 Billion games. Then during the off season, the Tigers signed one Ivan(Pudge) Rodriguez. The signing of a marquee Free Agent brought others to town and we went the World Series.::Hold Beer in the Air, bow head, mutter "F the Cardinals"::This is what we need to do. The draftees have no choice, the come to the Lions because they have to. But we sign one marquee name and show that we mean business, then more will come.Ok, now this may hurt Lions fan, but lets review.We drafted Barry, we drafted Moore and we signed Mitchel as a FA. We also signed whats his name from the Saints as a Defensive FA. other bit players followed. We went to the NFC championship game.Bah. I will tell you what though. The day Detroit wins the Super Bowl, we will burn this town down like no one could even imagine.Peace
Once upon a time the Green Bay Packers lost 118 Billion games. Then during the offseason, the Packers signed one Reggie (the Preacher) White. The signing of a marquee Free Agent brought others to town, and we ewnt on to win the Super Bowl.NOW: I don't know if Haynesworth should have been "the chosen one" or whether or not the Lions could have even got him. But I do know that signing a "Marquee" free agent in a position of need - in the Packer's case DE - particularly if that person brings a strong team leadership presense, can change the culture and the dynamic of a team virtually overnight.I'm not a Detroit fan, I'm a Packer fan. I'm not particularly a knowledgeable about players on the defensive side of the ball as I don't play fantasy in an IDP league. But if I were trying to rebuild the Lions, I would find and make every effort to sign the difference-making Free Agent who fits that specific profile. The 1st thing that needs changing on the Lions is the 'culture' of the team.I'd also draft Matt Stafford (or Freeman, if I believed he could be groomed to lead the Lions by the middle of his second year) as my franchise QB of the future, and make almost all of the rest of my draft picks on the defensive side of the ball.
 
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The Captain said:
If the Lions got real smart and picked up Rocky Bernard at DT and Jason Brown at Guard and I'd be the happiest man alive from a FA standpoint. Draft Curry at #1 and best avail middle linebacker at #20. Grab an OT in the second and a couple corners in the 3rd.D would instantly be able to keep the Lions in games and the Oline would be vastly improved.Next year grab a QB.That's how I'd roll.
Jason Brown is a center and already picked up by STL.
 
Ozymandias said:
Is there stupid in the air in Detroit? What with the auto companies, and yet another GM and coaching staff that don't realize that you'd better rebuild the o-line and d-line before you start putting icing on the cake?Yeah, Rome wasn't built in a day. But it wouldn't have been built at all if the Romans had built chic boutiques instead of laying the foundation for the walls.
Lets get past the second day of the FA offseason, perhaps even let the draft come and go, before we judge the offseason?
 
Rome wasn't built in a day. It took a bit longer than that.Rebuilding the Lions will take a bit longer still.
They've been in rebuilding mode since Bobby Lane left. I just thought that if they were going to go out and sign ANY free agents, they would've at least been at positions of need. RB and WR are about the ONLY positions on the team (maybe besides K) that they didn't need to worry as much about. When you're getting backups and depth, you can wait until later in free agency (or later rounds of the draft) to get it. Defensive starters are much harder to come by. The whole problem with Millen was he spent too much effort trying to get a #2 WR, looks like his protege learned well in that regard (except Washington doesn't seem to be that good.)I'll be surprised if they don't draft Stafford. Why? Because that would be about the worst move they could make - which is exactly why I expect it.
Why would drafting Matt Stafford be a bad move? Is it because recent top 10 QB draft picks JaMarcus Russell, Vince Young, Alex Smith, Bryon Leftwich, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, and Ryan Leif have either been disappointments so far or were busts? The lack of success of those quarterbacks have nothing to do with whether or not Matt Stafford will be successful in the NFL. Most of those quarterbacks either did not play in Pro style systems in college or never had a season where they completed 60% or more of their passes. Stafford played in a Pro style system in college and completed 61% of his passes this season. That doesn't mean he won't bust, but he certainly has the tools to become a top 5 QB in this league. If the Lions feel he can be a top 10 QB in this league, they need to draft him, especially since Calvin Johnson could become the top receiver in the league if he had a legit QB throwing him the ball. The worst thing the Lions could possibly do with the #1 pick is draft Aaron Curry. I don't care if he becomes the next Ray Lewis, linebackers simply don't have the impact on an NFL franchise that an elite QB or LT does.
 
Rome wasn't built in a day. It took a bit longer than that.Rebuilding the Lions will take a bit longer still.
They've been in rebuilding mode since Bobby Lane left. I just thought that if they were going to go out and sign ANY free agents, they would've at least been at positions of need. RB and WR are about the ONLY positions on the team (maybe besides K) that they didn't need to worry as much about. When you're getting backups and depth, you can wait until later in free agency (or later rounds of the draft) to get it. Defensive starters are much harder to come by. The whole problem with Millen was he spent too much effort trying to get a #2 WR, looks like his protege learned well in that regard (except Washington doesn't seem to be that good.)I'll be surprised if they don't draft Stafford. Why? Because that would be about the worst move they could make - which is exactly why I expect it.
Why would drafting Matt Stafford be a bad move? Is it because recent top 10 QB draft picks JaMarcus Russell, Vince Young, Alex Smith, Bryon Leftwich, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, and Ryan Leif have either been disappointments so far or were busts? The lack of success of those quarterbacks have nothing to do with whether or not Matt Stafford will be successful in the NFL. Most of those quarterbacks either did not play in Pro style systems in college or never had a season where they completed 60% or more of their passes. Stafford played in a Pro style system in college and completed 61% of his passes this season. That doesn't mean he won't bust, but he certainly has the tools to become a top 5 QB in this league. If the Lions feel he can be a top 10 QB in this league, they need to draft him, especially since Calvin Johnson could become the top receiver in the league if he had a legit QB throwing him the ball. The worst thing the Lions could possibly do with the #1 pick is draft Aaron Curry. I don't care if he becomes the next Ray Lewis, linebackers simply don't have the impact on an NFL franchise that an elite QB or LT does.
I disagree with this assessment. If you watched any Lions games last year they could not stop the run. Remember back to Thanksgiving and the Titans running through them? If the Lions are going to win games this year their defense has to greatly improve. Adding Curry, (in addition to FA and trades) will help turn around their defense. Curry is pretty much the closest prospect to a sure thing, if the Lions selected Stafford and he is a bust then they are right back where they started only 4 years later and down about 40-50 million. Unlike in previous years where their was an undisputed #1 there is alot of questions surrounding Stafford. While you mentioned the point of Stafford completing 60% of his passes you forgot to mention the unusually high amount of INT's which is cause for concern.
 
The worst thing the Lions could possibly do with the #1 pick is draft Aaron Curry. I don't care if he becomes the next Ray Lewis, linebackers simply don't have the impact on an NFL franchise that an elite QB or LT does.
Normally I would agree with you, but this year's crop of QB's and LT's, while definitely solid, aren't quite in the elite category for me. There's no Pace, Ogden, or even Joe Thomas in this draft.
 
Rome wasn't built in a day. It took a bit longer than that.Rebuilding the Lions will take a bit longer still.
They've been in rebuilding mode since Bobby Lane left. I just thought that if they were going to go out and sign ANY free agents, they would've at least been at positions of need. RB and WR are about the ONLY positions on the team (maybe besides K) that they didn't need to worry as much about. When you're getting backups and depth, you can wait until later in free agency (or later rounds of the draft) to get it. Defensive starters are much harder to come by. The whole problem with Millen was he spent too much effort trying to get a #2 WR, looks like his protege learned well in that regard (except Washington doesn't seem to be that good.)I'll be surprised if they don't draft Stafford. Why? Because that would be about the worst move they could make - which is exactly why I expect it.
Why would drafting Matt Stafford be a bad move? Is it because recent top 10 QB draft picks JaMarcus Russell, Vince Young, Alex Smith, Bryon Leftwich, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, and Ryan Leif have either been disappointments so far or were busts? The lack of success of those quarterbacks have nothing to do with whether or not Matt Stafford will be successful in the NFL. Most of those quarterbacks either did not play in Pro style systems in college or never had a season where they completed 60% or more of their passes. Stafford played in a Pro style system in college and completed 61% of his passes this season. That doesn't mean he won't bust, but he certainly has the tools to become a top 5 QB in this league. If the Lions feel he can be a top 10 QB in this league, they need to draft him, especially since Calvin Johnson could become the top receiver in the league if he had a legit QB throwing him the ball. The worst thing the Lions could possibly do with the #1 pick is draft Aaron Curry. I don't care if he becomes the next Ray Lewis, linebackers simply don't have the impact on an NFL franchise that an elite QB or LT does.
The reason that drafting Stafford is a bad idea is that if the Lions draft him, he has absolutely no chance of succeeding. The Lions have NEVER invested properly in their offensive line, and because of that, they've never been good. There isn't a QB in the world that could make that team good - including any that are already in the league. Here are a few stats - since 1997, the Lions have had EIGHT top 10 picks, and they've used ZERO on either the offensive or defensive lines (4 WRs, 2 LBs, 1 QB, and 1CB). Most people realize that you win by building up the lines, and the Lions are great proof of that. There's a reason why they keep getting these top 10 picks, and that is because they don't use them wisely. WR is an icing position, the Lions don't have any cake. They shouldn't have been drafting all of them with high picks. There's nothing to do about that now, but they shouldn't be wasting their time in free agency trying to add WRs. They should be spending that money and effort signing CBs, LBs, safeties, etc. Here's another factor why I think drafting Stafford is a bad move - since 1977, the Lions have drafted 14 QBs, including a Heisman winner and three Heisman finalists. Of those 14 QBs drafted, Eric Hipple has won the most games as a Lions starter at 28. The guy with the best winning percentage? That would be Andre Ware with a whopping .500 (3-3) as a starter for the Lions. They never have a good line (nor a good veteran on the roster to groom the QBs they draft, they just throw them out in the fire, then bench them because they're not ready. And they always end up the same - shell-shocked and lacking confidence.As a franchise, they've never been committed to building a tough-in-the-trenches team, in other words, they've never been committed to winning. There is no way for them to address all of their needs this off-season, either through the draft or free agency. But I would like to see them at least start moving in the right direction, and I haven't yet. Maurice Morris? Bryant Johnson? Guys like that are always available after the draft, and for less money.The way I see it, they're going to be drafting in the top 5 again next year, there's just no way around it. If they draft well this year, they should be able to get a solid nucleus of young players - guys that should ALL be playing this year. Next year, take the QB then, and he'll have a better group of young guys around him, making it much easier on him. Plus there's a possible added benefit of a rookie salary structure, which would make a QB less expensive next year. (No guarantee, but I believe the league will have to do this.) Drafting a LT #1 will be less expensive than a QB, and will have more of an immediate impact.I would much prefer them drafting a LT first, but I'd rather they draft Curry than Stafford.
 
They released Bodden recently, the guy they traded Shaun Rogers for, who BTW just played in thh Pro Bowl.
Granted Bodden was overrated but Rogers was a head case in that he had games all over the board and while he had talent was not willing to maintain/prepare for opponents and was constantly bumping heads with staff because they expected him to become a team leader and he never did. It is not a coincidence that he is already looking to leave Cleveland because his weight is again an issue.
 
Why didn't Detroit offer pick 2.01 for Cassel and Vrabel? Is the deal w/ KC all about the relationship w/ the new GM? NE would have gotten a small bump over KC and Det could have used both players as they rebuild.

Kitna > Culpepper > Johnson. Kitna was a good guy and not in the top 5 problems behind Detroits collapse. Losing him is to bad. I am interested in hearing others assessment of Henry and if he can return to being a solid starter.

Morris was a nice signing as insurance/change of pace back. A nice contrast/compliment to Smith's running game.

 
Rome wasn't built in a day. It took a bit longer than that.Rebuilding the Lions will take a bit longer still.
They've been in rebuilding mode since Bobby Lane left. I just thought that if they were going to go out and sign ANY free agents, they would've at least been at positions of need. RB and WR are about the ONLY positions on the team (maybe besides K) that they didn't need to worry as much about. When you're getting backups and depth, you can wait until later in free agency (or later rounds of the draft) to get it. Defensive starters are much harder to come by. The whole problem with Millen was he spent too much effort trying to get a #2 WR, looks like his protege learned well in that regard (except Washington doesn't seem to be that good.)I'll be surprised if they don't draft Stafford. Why? Because that would be about the worst move they could make - which is exactly why I expect it.
Why would drafting Matt Stafford be a bad move? Is it because recent top 10 QB draft picks JaMarcus Russell, Vince Young, Alex Smith, Bryon Leftwich, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, and Ryan Leif have either been disappointments so far or were busts? The lack of success of those quarterbacks have nothing to do with whether or not Matt Stafford will be successful in the NFL. Most of those quarterbacks either did not play in Pro style systems in college or never had a season where they completed 60% or more of their passes. Stafford played in a Pro style system in college and completed 61% of his passes this season. That doesn't mean he won't bust, but he certainly has the tools to become a top 5 QB in this league. If the Lions feel he can be a top 10 QB in this league, they need to draft him, especially since Calvin Johnson could become the top receiver in the league if he had a legit QB throwing him the ball. The worst thing the Lions could possibly do with the #1 pick is draft Aaron Curry. I don't care if he becomes the next Ray Lewis, linebackers simply don't have the impact on an NFL franchise that an elite QB or LT does.
The reason that drafting Stafford is a bad idea is that if the Lions draft him, he has absolutely no chance of succeeding. The Lions have NEVER invested properly in their offensive line, and because of that, they've never been good. There isn't a QB in the world that could make that team good - including any that are already in the league. Here are a few stats - since 1997, the Lions have had EIGHT top 10 picks, and they've used ZERO on either the offensive or defensive lines (4 WRs, 2 LBs, 1 QB, and 1CB). Most people realize that you win by building up the lines, and the Lions are great proof of that. There's a reason why they keep getting these top 10 picks, and that is because they don't use them wisely. WR is an icing position, the Lions don't have any cake. They shouldn't have been drafting all of them with high picks. There's nothing to do about that now, but they shouldn't be wasting their time in free agency trying to add WRs. They should be spending that money and effort signing CBs, LBs, safeties, etc. Here's another factor why I think drafting Stafford is a bad move - since 1977, the Lions have drafted 14 QBs, including a Heisman winner and three Heisman finalists. Of those 14 QBs drafted, Eric Hipple has won the most games as a Lions starter at 28. The guy with the best winning percentage? That would be Andre Ware with a whopping .500 (3-3) as a starter for the Lions. They never have a good line (nor a good veteran on the roster to groom the QBs they draft, they just throw them out in the fire, then bench them because they're not ready. And they always end up the same - shell-shocked and lacking confidence.As a franchise, they've never been committed to building a tough-in-the-trenches team, in other words, they've never been committed to winning. There is no way for them to address all of their needs this off-season, either through the draft or free agency. But I would like to see them at least start moving in the right direction, and I haven't yet. Maurice Morris? Bryant Johnson? Guys like that are always available after the draft, and for less money.The way I see it, they're going to be drafting in the top 5 again next year, there's just no way around it. If they draft well this year, they should be able to get a solid nucleus of young players - guys that should ALL be playing this year. Next year, take the QB then, and he'll have a better group of young guys around him, making it much easier on him. Plus there's a possible added benefit of a rookie salary structure, which would make a QB less expensive next year. (No guarantee, but I believe the league will have to do this.) Drafting a LT #1 will be less expensive than a QB, and will have more of an immediate impact.I would much prefer them drafting a LT first, but I'd rather they draft Curry than Stafford.
:potkettle:
 
So far, the Lions have proven that the more things change, the more they stay the same. Having one of the worst defenses the league has ever seen to compliment a periennially bad offensive line, the Lions go for the obvious moves (at least for them) to sign a backup running back (MoMo) and spend a lot of time working out a deal with a unproven 2nd receiver (Washington). Neither one of those guys will make a difference in turning this team around, so why waste time signing them at the start of free agency?Why are they even wasting time talking to players at those positions? They should be focusing on their biggest needs - particularly DE, DT, LB, CB, SS, and FS (I think that is all of the defensive positions). If you want to get any of the top players at those positions, you have to meet with them, which you can't do if you're meeting with WRs and RBs.No wonder nobody ever wants to play there.
What you are missing is that EVERY position on the Lions is one of need. I'm glad that we are signing cheap FA to fill the least important positions (wr2, wr3, 3rd down back) because that tells me that we're not going to waste draft picks there. The WR especially had to be addressed in FA - they basically have CJ and nobody else and they sure as hell don't want to draft a WR.
 
Rome wasn't built in a day. It took a bit longer than that.Rebuilding the Lions will take a bit longer still.
They've been in rebuilding mode since Bobby Lane left. I just thought that if they were going to go out and sign ANY free agents, they would've at least been at positions of need. RB and WR are about the ONLY positions on the team (maybe besides K) that they didn't need to worry as much about. When you're getting backups and depth, you can wait until later in free agency (or later rounds of the draft) to get it. Defensive starters are much harder to come by. The whole problem with Millen was he spent too much effort trying to get a #2 WR, looks like his protege learned well in that regard (except Washington doesn't seem to be that good.)I'll be surprised if they don't draft Stafford. Why? Because that would be about the worst move they could make - which is exactly why I expect it.
Why would drafting Matt Stafford be a bad move? Is it because recent top 10 QB draft picks JaMarcus Russell, Vince Young, Alex Smith, Bryon Leftwich, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, and Ryan Leif have either been disappointments so far or were busts? The lack of success of those quarterbacks have nothing to do with whether or not Matt Stafford will be successful in the NFL. Most of those quarterbacks either did not play in Pro style systems in college or never had a season where they completed 60% or more of their passes. Stafford played in a Pro style system in college and completed 61% of his passes this season. That doesn't mean he won't bust, but he certainly has the tools to become a top 5 QB in this league. If the Lions feel he can be a top 10 QB in this league, they need to draft him, especially since Calvin Johnson could become the top receiver in the league if he had a legit QB throwing him the ball. The worst thing the Lions could possibly do with the #1 pick is draft Aaron Curry. I don't care if he becomes the next Ray Lewis, linebackers simply don't have the impact on an NFL franchise that an elite QB or LT does.
The reason that drafting Stafford is a bad idea is that if the Lions draft him, he has absolutely no chance of succeeding. The Lions have NEVER invested properly in their offensive line, and because of that, they've never been good. There isn't a QB in the world that could make that team good - including any that are already in the league. Here are a few stats - since 1997, the Lions have had EIGHT top 10 picks, and they've used ZERO on either the offensive or defensive lines (4 WRs, 2 LBs, 1 QB, and 1CB). Most people realize that you win by building up the lines, and the Lions are great proof of that. There's a reason why they keep getting these top 10 picks, and that is because they don't use them wisely. WR is an icing position, the Lions don't have any cake. They shouldn't have been drafting all of them with high picks. There's nothing to do about that now, but they shouldn't be wasting their time in free agency trying to add WRs. They should be spending that money and effort signing CBs, LBs, safeties, etc. Here's another factor why I think drafting Stafford is a bad move - since 1977, the Lions have drafted 14 QBs, including a Heisman winner and three Heisman finalists. Of those 14 QBs drafted, Eric Hipple has won the most games as a Lions starter at 28. The guy with the best winning percentage? That would be Andre Ware with a whopping .500 (3-3) as a starter for the Lions. They never have a good line (nor a good veteran on the roster to groom the QBs they draft, they just throw them out in the fire, then bench them because they're not ready. And they always end up the same - shell-shocked and lacking confidence.As a franchise, they've never been committed to building a tough-in-the-trenches team, in other words, they've never been committed to winning. There is no way for them to address all of their needs this off-season, either through the draft or free agency. But I would like to see them at least start moving in the right direction, and I haven't yet. Maurice Morris? Bryant Johnson? Guys like that are always available after the draft, and for less money.The way I see it, they're going to be drafting in the top 5 again next year, there's just no way around it. If they draft well this year, they should be able to get a solid nucleus of young players - guys that should ALL be playing this year. Next year, take the QB then, and he'll have a better group of young guys around him, making it much easier on him. Plus there's a possible added benefit of a rookie salary structure, which would make a QB less expensive next year. (No guarantee, but I believe the league will have to do this.) Drafting a LT #1 will be less expensive than a QB, and will have more of an immediate impact.I would much prefer them drafting a LT first, but I'd rather they draft Curry than Stafford.
A-(bleep)ing-MEN!Everyone who thinks Detroit should draft Stafford first, points to the need to have a franchise QB. That's all fine and dandy, but it won't matter if you put Peyton Manning behind the center. He will STILL get killed and suck. Their line is THAT bad!I wholeheartedly agreed with Mike Schlereth on NFL Live on ESPN the other day when he said that what Detroit should do is start from the inside out. They have always tried to get some flashy player and go from the outside in and it's never worked. They have got to start with their offensive AND defensive lines and work their way out from there.Besides, a number of top prospect QBs held off entering the NFL this year. There will be a great group available next year, and I'm confident Detroit can pick one up, and would be better served to wait. Stafford is ok, and I say this having watched him a good bit this year (I live in Georgia). But his accuracy is not real great, and he is an underclassman (just like Sanchez) and doesn't have as much experience. That doesn't say he can't succeed, but when you bring a more inexperienced young QB who needs to work on his accuracy onto a team that is in complete rebuild mode, it is a recipe for disaster. I think all parties involved would be better served if Detroit were to pass on Stafford. There are other teams that he would be a better fit for...
 
I wholeheartedly agreed with Mike Schlereth on NFL Live on ESPN the other day when he said that what Detroit should do is start from the inside out. They have always tried to get some flashy player and go from the outside in and it's never worked. They have got to start with their offensive AND defensive lines and work their way out from there.
I still think this philosophy is misunderstood. While you do have to have good lines, that doesn't mean that you have to draft or sign those positions first. It just means that you have to have them.For a team as bad as the Lions, they need to draft the best talent they can at each spot. That might be a left tackle in this year's draft. It also might be a quarterback. But the idea that you have to fill your biggest need at the earliest possible time is simply not true and it's an idea that causes many teams to draft mediocre players too early and sign mediocre free agents for too much money.

 
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I wholeheartedly agreed with Mike Schlereth on NFL Live on ESPN the other day when he said that what Detroit should do is start from the inside out. They have always tried to get some flashy player and go from the outside in and it's never worked. They have got to start with their offensive AND defensive lines and work their way out from there.
I still think this philosophy is misunderstood. While you do have to have good lines, that doesn't mean that you have to draft or sign those positions first. It just means that you have to have them.For a team as bad as the Lions, they need to draft the best talent they can at each spot. That might be a left tackle in this year's draft. It also might be a quarterback. But the idea that you have to fill your biggest need at the earliest possible time is simply not true and it's an idea that causes many teams to draft mediocre players too early and sign mediocre free agents for too much money.
What I would like to see is some analysis on when the Pro-bowl left tackles were drafted, because I can't remember any LTs drafted in the later rounds that went on to become All-Pro/Pro-bowl left tackles. I'm sure there are some, but I just can't think of them right now. Guards and centers, yes, but that's because those positions aren't valued nearly as much.when you always wait to draft those positions (the o-line and d-line), you end up getting second-rate players, because the good ones are already gone, kinda like showing up for the day after Thanksgiving sales at 6:00 pm.

And don't get me wrong, I agree with you with just about every other team besides the Lions. If a team is good at drafting and knows how to build through the draft, then yes, they may be able to afford to wait. But the Lions are notoriously bad at drafting. Not only do they not find diamonds in the rough, they have a hard time hitting on guys in the top 10. They miss with top 10 picks more than the good teams miss with first day picks. The Colts are a good example. When they won the Superbowl, they only had 4 players on their roster that had played for another team, including their kicker. They haven't drafted in the top 10 for quite some time, but they keep getting good lineman, because they know how to draft.

I always thought that Millen's biggest problem was that he always thought he knew better than the "experts" and would draft guys ahead of where everyone else had them slotted, and would pass on guys that everyone else had ranked higher. A good example of that was last year's draft, when they took Cherilus with Otah still on the board. Everything that I had ever seen had Otah ranked a lot higher than Cherilus. Well, Cherilus struggled and Otah looked very good for the Panthers. Millen ALWAYS did that. When you're as bad as the Lions have been for the last decade, you can't afford to guess. If you take the guy that everyone thinks is better and it doesn't work out, oh well, everyone was wrong. But when you reach for a guy, and YOU are wrong, that comes back on you. And Millen did that over and over.

 
Why didn't Detroit offer pick 2.01 for Cassel and Vrabel? Is the deal w/ KC all about the relationship w/ the new GM? NE would have gotten a small bump over KC and Det could have used both players as they rebuild.Kitna > Culpepper > Johnson. Kitna was a good guy and not in the top 5 problems behind Detroits collapse. Losing him is to bad. I am interested in hearing others assessment of Henry and if he can return to being a solid starter.Morris was a nice signing as insurance/change of pace back. A nice contrast/compliment to Smith's running game.
I think Henry will probably be moved to safety.
 
Why didn't Detroit offer pick 2.01 for Cassel and Vrabel? Is the deal w/ KC all about the relationship w/ the new GM? NE would have gotten a small bump over KC and Det could have used both players as they rebuild.Kitna > Culpepper > Johnson. Kitna was a good guy and not in the top 5 problems behind Detroits collapse. Losing him is to bad. I am interested in hearing others assessment of Henry and if he can return to being a solid starter.Morris was a nice signing as insurance/change of pace back. A nice contrast/compliment to Smith's running game.
I think Henry will probably be moved to safety.
Good luck with that. Henry as previously mentioned is injury prone. Moving him to safety exposes him to more injury risks IMO. I have a hard time seeing Henry tackle A. Peterson, M. Forte, or even Ryan Grant at the line of scrimmage or in the open field. Henry is a great 3rd CB and should be viewed as nothing more, although with Schwartz running the defense maybe they could get creative and move him into a hybrid CB/S role where his responsiblity is to cover the TE.
 
I disagree with this assessment. If you watched any Lions games last year they could not stop the run. Remember back to Thanksgiving and the Titans running through them? If the Lions are going to win games this year their defense has to greatly improve. Adding Curry, (in addition to FA and trades) will help turn around their defense. Curry is pretty much the closest prospect to a sure thing, if the Lions selected Stafford and he is a bust then they are right back where they started only 4 years later and down about 40-50 million. Unlike in previous years where their was an undisputed #1 there is alot of questions surrounding Stafford. While you mentioned the point of Stafford completing 60% of his passes you forgot to mention the unusually high amount of INT's which is cause for concern.
You're not thinking far enough ahead. Sure, drafting Curry would probably give the Lions win 1 or 2 more games in 2009 then would be drafting Stafford or Jason Smith. However, if the Lions are serious about winning a Super Bowl, the best move they can do for the long term is draft Matt Stafford or Jason Smith (or Eugene Smith/Mark Sanchez if they think one of those guys is better). You simply don't start a rebuilding process with a llinebacker. There's a reason why no linebacker has been taken in the top 3 since Lavar Arrington in 2000. LTs and QBs have a lot more impact on the score of a game then a LB does. It's also silly to say that Matt Stafford or Jason Smith aren't elite prospects. I don't think any regular fan, including me, has any idea if Stafford can become as good as McNabb or if Smith can become as good as Orlando Pace. People forget that just about every big time QB prospect, including Peyton Manning and Matt Ryan, had a lot of doubters.
 
I wholeheartedly agreed with Mike Schlereth on NFL Live on ESPN the other day when he said that what Detroit should do is start from the inside out. They have always tried to get some flashy player and go from the outside in and it's never worked. They have got to start with their offensive AND defensive lines and work their way out from there.
I still think this philosophy is misunderstood. While you do have to have good lines, that doesn't mean that you have to draft or sign those positions first. It just means that you have to have them.For a team as bad as the Lions, they need to draft the best talent they can at each spot. That might be a left tackle in this year's draft. It also might be a quarterback. But the idea that you have to fill your biggest need at the earliest possible time is simply not true and it's an idea that causes many teams to draft mediocre players too early and sign mediocre free agents for too much money.
:cry: People like to rip the Lions for drafting WR in the first round, but they forget that the Lions also drafted OL in the first round for 3 years in a row ('99-01): Gibson, McDougal, and Backus. And they all sucked. What the Lions need to do is stop drafting players that suck and get the best talent at each spot. It's really that simple. Getting rid of Millen was a good start, but I hope they overhauled the scouting department too.

 
I disagree with this assessment. If you watched any Lions games last year they could not stop the run. Remember back to Thanksgiving and the Titans running through them? If the Lions are going to win games this year their defense has to greatly improve. Adding Curry, (in addition to FA and trades) will help turn around their defense. Curry is pretty much the closest prospect to a sure thing, if the Lions selected Stafford and he is a bust then they are right back where they started only 4 years later and down about 40-50 million. Unlike in previous years where their was an undisputed #1 there is alot of questions surrounding Stafford. While you mentioned the point of Stafford completing 60% of his passes you forgot to mention the unusually high amount of INT's which is cause for concern.
You're not thinking far enough ahead. Sure, drafting Curry would probably give the Lions win 1 or 2 more games in 2009 then would be drafting Stafford or Jason Smith. However, if the Lions are serious about winning a Super Bowl, the best move they can do for the long term is draft Matt Stafford or Jason Smith (or Eugene Smith/Mark Sanchez if they think one of those guys is better). You simply don't start a rebuilding process with a llinebacker. There's a reason why no linebacker has been taken in the top 3 since Lavar Arrington in 2000. LTs and QBs have a lot more impact on the score of a game then a LB does. It's also silly to say that Matt Stafford or Jason Smith aren't elite prospects. I don't think any regular fan, including me, has any idea if Stafford can become as good as McNabb or if Smith can become as good as Orlando Pace. People forget that just about every big time QB prospect, including Peyton Manning and Matt Ryan, had a lot of doubters.
The rebuilding process is started on both sides of the line first and foremost. If you put a QB regardless of who behind that current O-line he will have David Carr syndrome aka deer in headlights. I am not opposed to the Lions drafting Jason Smith, I just think that Curry is the better player and I have heard that he rates slightly higher then DROY Jerod Mayo. If you look at the succesful rookie QB's M Ryan and J Flacco they both had above average offensive lines, I really hope for the fans sake that the Detroit brass realizes why Flacco and Ryan were succesful otherwise is its another 4-5 years of doom and gloom for Lions.
 
So far, the Lions have proven that the more things change, the more they stay the same. Having one of the worst defenses the league has ever seen to compliment a periennially bad offensive line, the Lions go for the obvious moves (at least for them) to sign a backup running back (MoMo) and spend a lot of time working out a deal with a unproven 2nd receiver (Washington). Neither one of those guys will make a difference in turning this team around, so why waste time signing them at the start of free agency?Why are they even wasting time talking to players at those positions? They should be focusing on their biggest needs - particularly DE, DT, LB, CB, SS, and FS (I think that is all of the defensive positions). If you want to get any of the top players at those positions, you have to meet with them, which you can't do if you're meeting with WRs and RBs.No wonder nobody ever wants to play there.
:confused:You'd probably show up at the first day of demolition of an old house and piss and moan about not seeing the Taj Mahal.
 
TwinTurbo said:
What the Lions need to do is stop drafting players that suck and get the best talent at each spot. It's really that simple. Getting rid of Millen was a good start, but I hope they overhauled the scouting department too.
Amen to that too...Millen is FINALLY gone. Good start, but the scouts need to go too, because he had to go to SOMEONE for advice on players, and the scouts would be it.
 
simmonjm said:
runner06 said:
I disagree with this assessment. If you watched any Lions games last year they could not stop the run. Remember back to Thanksgiving and the Titans running through them? If the Lions are going to win games this year their defense has to greatly improve. Adding Curry, (in addition to FA and trades) will help turn around their defense. Curry is pretty much the closest prospect to a sure thing, if the Lions selected Stafford and he is a bust then they are right back where they started only 4 years later and down about 40-50 million. Unlike in previous years where their was an undisputed #1 there is alot of questions surrounding Stafford. While you mentioned the point of Stafford completing 60% of his passes you forgot to mention the unusually high amount of INT's which is cause for concern.
You're not thinking far enough ahead. Sure, drafting Curry would probably give the Lions win 1 or 2 more games in 2009 then would be drafting Stafford or Jason Smith. However, if the Lions are serious about winning a Super Bowl, the best move they can do for the long term is draft Matt Stafford or Jason Smith (or Eugene Smith/Mark Sanchez if they think one of those guys is better). You simply don't start a rebuilding process with a llinebacker. There's a reason why no linebacker has been taken in the top 3 since Lavar Arrington in 2000. LTs and QBs have a lot more impact on the score of a game then a LB does. It's also silly to say that Matt Stafford or Jason Smith aren't elite prospects. I don't think any regular fan, including me, has any idea if Stafford can become as good as McNabb or if Smith can become as good as Orlando Pace. People forget that just about every big time QB prospect, including Peyton Manning and Matt Ryan, had a lot of doubters.
The rebuilding process is started on both sides of the line first and foremost. If you put a QB regardless of who behind that current O-line he will have David Carr syndrome aka deer in headlights. I am not opposed to the Lions drafting Jason Smith, I just think that Curry is the better player and I have heard that he rates slightly higher then DROY Jerod Mayo. If you look at the succesful rookie QB's M Ryan and J Flacco they both had above average offensive lines, I really hope for the fans sake that the Detroit brass realizes why Flacco and Ryan were succesful otherwise is its another 4-5 years of doom and gloom for Lions.
and none of them were with the top 10 picks, which is my point. If you want to get the best OL, you need to draft them at the top.
 
TwinTurbo said:
What the Lions need to do is stop drafting players that suck and get the best talent at each spot. It's really that simple. Getting rid of Millen was a good start, but I hope they overhauled the scouting department too.
Amen to that too...Millen is FINALLY gone. Good start, but the scouts need to go too, because he had to go to SOMEONE for advice on players, and the scouts would be it.
It's just amazing how many busts were drafted under the Millen regime. It's seems impossible to achieve with all the high picks, but almost every draft was a disaster of epic proportions. Almost none of his picks panned out. Some picks are now on a different team and most are out of the league. Very few have been given a second contract. Backus, Raiola, and Redding are still around but probably wouldn't be starters on most other teams in the league. And the worst part is that there is no consensus #1 pick in the draft this year. By trading Kitna and Orlovsky, it appears they are setting up to draft Stafford. But he's no sure thing.
 
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