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Lions trying to trade for a receiver (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter wormburner
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Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
Exactly, and why you don't spend early 2nd round picks on guys like Titus Young and Broyles. If you can wait and see if someone is pretty good like a Gordon and give up the same 2nd round pick is seems like a better option. Or even a 5th forsomeone like a Britt.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Color me crazy, but Gordon for a 2nd would be a joke of a trade for the Browns.Iwannabeacowboybaby! said:
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Englishteacher
Footballguy
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
The Lions have recently drafted Broyles early in the 2nd and Titus Young early in the 2nd, and a first rounder in Jahved Best. Whether they would get a 2nd or a 3rd from the Lions, the Lions would be wise to just get players who look the part already succeeding to a point in the NFL than relying on the method they are currently using to get ahold of the players I mentioned above.
Chaka
Footballguy
Soulfly3
Footballguy
His talent is 100% worth a first,
Noone will give it though.
A second may come up and that'll be the best they'll get. so they either sit still, or settle on a 2
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I think they would jump through the roof if they got a second. I think he gets moved for a 3rd but the Browns are holding onto him for a week or 2 to see if they can get a 2nd. I think it is a risky gamble, if he gets hurt they get nothing.
Chaka
Footballguy
They got what is likely a late first for the #3 pick in the 2012 draft; they would thank their lucky stars to get a 3rd round pick for a supplemental 2nd round pick who is one meltdown away from a major suspension. I agree that the talent is there but I doubt they move him for what they would be able to get in return.
Englishteacher
Footballguy
Character aside, teams may value Gordon more than Richardson. However, I agree they'd be lucky to get a 2 back for him.
There's nobody who can compare to Young's level of toxicity. Gordon's suspension was on marijuana, something that they've dealt with for Leshoure. Leshoure may be phased out of their gameplan but I think we can agree that it was because of Leshoure's perceived limitations as a player that led them to get Bush.netnalp said:
And cmon, it's the Lions. Under Linehan and Schwartz, a player with drug charges is just a guppy in a shark pool.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
It would be a joke to get a 2nd because the guy's talent is worth a VERY HIGH first round pick.
If all you can get is a 2nd, then you simply hang on to him. The reward so far outweighs the risk of losing out on a 2nd round pick, it would be a laughable trade.
If we are going to talk about his "trade value", then fine, I can accept that it might only be a 2nd. But his value to the Browns is so much higher than that (or certainly should be) that there is no way he is traded for a 2nd.
If he was legitimately going to get traded for a 2nd, I would think he would already be in another team's uniform.
If all you can get is a 2nd, then you simply hang on to him. The reward so far outweighs the risk of losing out on a 2nd round pick, it would be a laughable trade.
If we are going to talk about his "trade value", then fine, I can accept that it might only be a 2nd. But his value to the Browns is so much higher than that (or certainly should be) that there is no way he is traded for a 2nd.
If he was legitimately going to get traded for a 2nd, I would think he would already be in another team's uniform.
I don't think you can separate the threat of him being suspended for a season with one more transgression from his talent. There's a decent amount of risk with this type of player because of these off the field issues, and that lowers his real and perceived value IMO.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
yes.............but not low enough to trade him for a 2nd.
Which is higher, the chances of him being suspended for a year, or that 2nd round pick not being a stud??
I have to lean towards that 2nd round pick not being a stud.
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steveski
Footballguy
As a Gordon owner, I hope he stays with the Browns this week so they can show him off again and target him 20 times so they can get their 1st rounder for him on Monday. I'd be more than happy with him going to the Lions and it makes sense for all parties to give up a 1st for him. They'll probably end up using their 1st rounder for a WR anyways, so would they rather play the draft game or have a known commodity like Gordon?
As a Gordon owner, I'd prefer him to stay in CLE. Down field passing game and lots of targets. Team that doesn't have much of a run game so will need to throw. I know there are much better QB's out there than Hoyer/Weeden, but it's risky to go to a new team/system mid year.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
I wonder if ARI is set on resigning Andre Roberts after this year. I believe he is a free agent and maybe a lower cost option.
We Tigers
Footballguy
It all depends on what the Lions want out of an outside receiver. Are they really after another superstar, or would they be content with someone who's bigger than Patrick Edwards? Edwards is 5'8" and Broyles is 5'10", so they could use some size.
If they do trade for a receiver, I think it's more likely to be a decent journeyman who's 6'2"/200 and can be had for a 6th round pick than it is a big name. In other words, I think they'll end up with more of a Greg Little than a Josh Gordon.
If they do trade for a receiver, I think it's more likely to be a decent journeyman who's 6'2"/200 and can be had for a 6th round pick than it is a big name. In other words, I think they'll end up with more of a Greg Little than a Josh Gordon.
Spike
Footballguy
Assuming a deal for one of these guys is made, would it make sense that the longer it takes (now versus right at the trade deadline) the less they would command? The reason being the amount of time the WR would need to assimilate the playbook and provide value for the Lions.
For example, Gordon bringing a 2nd today to the Browns versus bringing a 3rd at the deadline.
For example, Gordon bringing a 2nd today to the Browns versus bringing a 3rd at the deadline.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Isnt he one positive drug test away from a long vacation? That has to factor into it as well. At the risk I would think Gordon is no more than a 4rth possibly 5th.
r0llin_game
Footballguy
Hey guys saying they should trade a 2nd for Gordon. Rumor is that the 49ers offered their first and Cleveland turned it down..
pantherclub
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Who told you that the Easter Bunny? Seriously, no way in hell that happened. I know it looks like we are shooting the messenger here, but please show us a link so we can make sure to do one of two things. Never listen to this person again or if it comes true make him our football guru. I think I will do the first.
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Englishteacher
Footballguy
mikel0254
Footballguy
No, he's thinking like a GM would think. You're thinking like a fantasy football player would think. BIG difference. That's why he won't get traded. He is one positive drug test away from a year long suspension, and I can't see a GM giving up a 2nd or probably even a 3rd for such a risk. Great talent, but too much risk for a 2nd round pick. He'll stay on CLE most likely.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
I asked this in another thread, but is there any precedent for a WR changing teams mid-season and immediately being productive? The only WR trade examples I can think of are Randy Moss and Chris Chambers, neither of whom did much after they got traded (though to be fair, they weren't doing much before they got traded, either).
After the Richardson trade, people said that RB was one of the easiest positions to pick up on the fly. It seems like WR would be a lot more difficult -- you have to learn the routes, develop chemistry with the QB, etc. All of which is to say that those visions of Gordon racking up points from Stafford or Kaepernick or RGIII may be a bit premature.
After the Richardson trade, people said that RB was one of the easiest positions to pick up on the fly. It seems like WR would be a lot more difficult -- you have to learn the routes, develop chemistry with the QB, etc. All of which is to say that those visions of Gordon racking up points from Stafford or Kaepernick or RGIII may be a bit premature.
steveski
Footballguy
I've never played RB or WR in my life, but I would think picking up RB is tougher than WR mainly because of blocking assignments. Running an incorrect route isn't anywhere near as bad as not picking up your block. As far as establishing a connection with the QB as far as timing goes, it obviously takes more time for a WR than a RB.
Jewell
Footballguy
Deion Branch. Branch was doing diddly-poo in Seattle when he was shipped back to New England mid-season. While Branch didn't set the league afire that season, we did see a noticeable uptick in Branch's production.
This is not true at all.
In today's offenses, WRs have a much tougher time adjusting to a new team and/or transition from college to NFL.
The route trees for each play are complex and most receivers know more than one position. There are also dozen different ways to run the route after the play starts if coverage changes. Guys like Welker adjust routes in stride depending on what is open, within the scheme. The amount of information he processes on any given play would be mind-boggling to the average fan.
RBs, meanwhile, need to know blitz pick-ups, but that's about it. The "feel" of running with new lineman may take some time, but the playbook is greatly simplified for RBs as opposed to any other skill position player.
In general, the difficult of picking up a position on a new team would be something like this:
QB >>>>>>>>>>>> TE >>>> WR >>>> RB
Note that TE is generally a very difficult transition, because they have to know the routes of a WR plus the blocking of an in-line offensive lineman. Many hall of fame TEs had middling first and second years in the league.
In response to your "blocking" argument ... don't forget that WRs block, too, and generally more often than a RB. There are more WRs than there are RBs, and once the ball is completed they turn into down-the-field blockers. There are also many designed pick/blocks or screen passes where they are direct blockers. On designed run plays, the slot receivers often block linebackers directly.
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Again, not a world beater, but Antonio Bryant was productive when he was traded to Cleveland.
Not a change of team, but a similar scenario where last year Danario Alexander was a free agent pickup that had a big impact on the Chargers offense. It took him about a month from him being signed until his first big game.
HULLOBUDMAN
Footballguy
pantherclub
Footballguy
THis is why I think he stays in Cleveland.
Like I said I doubt anyone is going to give them more than a 4rth or 5th for a knucklehead. He is worth more to Cleveland now even with the risk.
Nucker101
Footballguy
I really hope they give Broyles a shot, I understand that he's no lock to stay healthy which is why they're concerned but when he's on the field he's definitely good enough to be starting opposite of Megatron. I do think that a team looking to take a chance at a WR should try to (cheaply) trade for Kenny Britt, who's a pending free agent anyways. He's clearly a headcase, but those kinds of guys usually put on the "good guy" act during their honeymoon period with their new team. Only problem again would be that he doesn't appear to be very bright and learning a playbook and developing chemistry with a new QB in a new system that quickly takes a smart football player.
moviedude25
Footballguy
Santana Moss when he was traded from the JETS to the Redskins did great, better then before
T with T
Footballguy
the lions have only given up 2 sacks thru 3 games.. The line is playing fine as of now.
mikel0254
Footballguy
I don't think any of those WR's you listed were one screw up away from an entire year suspension.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Again.......what is more likely, Gordon staying trouble free, or a 4th or 5th rounder becoming the stud that Gordon is? Pretty easy answer.
meanjoegreen
Footballguy
Last week I read that Stafford has been the least pressured QB through the first two weeks.
I personally wouldn't give up a first or second for a guy one strike away from a full year suspension in only his second year in the league. Maybe a third rounder.
In trying to assess Gordon this past summer I was looking for some stats or examples of NFL players that were on the verge of a one year suspension and were able to toe the line for the remainder of their career? Has anybody looked into that? Jimmy Smith comes to mind as a guy who went right up to the line and kept himself off suspension for the rest of his career, which admittedly was only a couple more years after his season with the four game suspension. He has since fallen apart http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/7/2/4486764/jimmy-smith-house-arrest-jaguars . Anybody else? If there aren't that many examples, I think the probability that Gordon stays on the straight and narrow path may be a lot lower than people think.
In trying to assess Gordon this past summer I was looking for some stats or examples of NFL players that were on the verge of a one year suspension and were able to toe the line for the remainder of their career? Has anybody looked into that? Jimmy Smith comes to mind as a guy who went right up to the line and kept himself off suspension for the rest of his career, which admittedly was only a couple more years after his season with the four game suspension. He has since fallen apart http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/7/2/4486764/jimmy-smith-house-arrest-jaguars . Anybody else? If there aren't that many examples, I think the probability that Gordon stays on the straight and narrow path may be a lot lower than people think.
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