Loaning a chick money 9/9/16 - Bye (1 Viewer)

[DrJ]

Why lie if it's supposed to be open?

I didn't really know how to say, "Babe, Girl 3 and I met for lunch and had awesome sex. I plan to hook up with her several times again as it's great - not with you btw, just the two of us"

Has a situation like this never come up before? You've been called/texted when you were dippin your wick before? What have you done in the past? It seems pretty clear that you and your wife have very different definitions on what an open marriage is. Your wife wants you to be "open" about what you're doing, who you're seeing, etc. You just see it as a way to cheat on her without feeling guilty about it.

And if you believe she told Ron every time she saw one of her lesbo friends I have a bridge to sell you.

So long as she left video evidence, I'm not seeing the problem.

 

[dparker713]

Why lie if it's supposed to be open?

Why not roll into the Four Seasons or similar?

Because the cheating, sneaking around, and lying is half the fun. It's what gets the adrenaline going. I would imagine even an open relationship with complete honesty could get dull. Some guys need the thrill of the chase and potential of getting caught.

Yeah and those are the dads people end up crying about in therapy years later, and it's why some women keep picking dirtbags who cheat on them. Or they become alcoholics or whores themselves. Nice contribution to the world, create more dysfunctional people because your selfish ### needs the thrill of the chase. If you can't be with one chick, don't ####### get married and have kids. This is why the country is in the crapper.

In my experience it's the girls that grew up in "normal" environment that are the dirtiest of the whores. They're going to rebel once they hit a certain age. Sometimes it's better to have them rebelling against you making a pile of jag of yourself vs rebelling against your "normal" life and turning into a sperm deposit.

There will always be people who end up dysfunctional no matter what. More often than not though, positive role models make us better people, and negative ones cause maladaptive behaviors. I'm sensitive to this because my dad was a drunk and took off when I was young. If I ever have kids of my own, they will be the center of my universe come hell or high water. To talk about a dad "needing" to get his #### wet on the side really grates on me. A real dad sacrifices his selfish and immature pursuits for the sake of his kids.

It's disturbing that people today don't think they should have to deny any impulse. I guess it's the result of helicopter parenting and everyone feeling privileged and entitled. And it extends into every aspect of life, people acting ####ty toward each other in traffic, at the supermarket, at the movie theater, etc. We're a nation of spoiled, selfish #######s.

These rants certainly make you seem like a normal, well-adjusted individual.

 

[mr roboto]

Why lie if it's supposed to be open?

Why not roll into the Four Seasons or similar?

Because the cheating, sneaking around, and lying is half the fun. It's what gets the adrenaline going. I would imagine even an open relationship with complete honesty could get dull. Some guys need the thrill of the chase and potential of getting caught.

Yeah and those are the dads people end up crying about in therapy years later, and it's why some women keep picking dirtbags who cheat on them. Or they become alcoholics or whores themselves. Nice contribution to the world, create more dysfunctional people because your selfish ### needs the thrill of the chase. If you can't be with one chick, don't ####### get married and have kids. This is why the country is in the crapper.

In my experience it's the girls that grew up in "normal" environment that are the dirtiest of the whores. They're going to rebel once they hit a certain age. Sometimes it's better to have them rebelling against you making a pile of jag of yourself vs rebelling against your "normal" life and turning into a sperm deposit.

There will always be people who end up dysfunctional no matter what. More often than not though, positive role models make us better people, and negative ones cause maladaptive behaviors. I'm sensitive to this because my dad was a drunk and took off when I was young. If I ever have kids of my own, they will be the center of my universe come hell or high water. To talk about a dad "needing" to get his #### wet on the side really grates on me. A real dad sacrifices his selfish and immature pursuits for the sake of his kids.

It's disturbing that people today don't think they should have to deny any impulse. I guess it's the result of helicopter parenting and everyone feeling privileged and entitled. And it extends into every aspect of life, people acting ####ty toward each other in traffic, at the supermarket, at the movie theater, etc. We're a nation of spoiled, selfish #######s.

These rants certainly make you seem like a normal, well-adjusted individual.

Getting personally worked up about dads who put their own libido over their kids isn't an appropriate thing to rant about? (Not saying AZ Ron is doing this, but McG is pretty much spot on with his rant.)

 

[Henry Ford]

Why lie if it's supposed to be open?

Why not roll into the Four Seasons or similar?

Because the cheating, sneaking around, and lying is half the fun. It's what gets the adrenaline going. I would imagine even an open relationship with complete honesty could get dull. Some guys need the thrill of the chase and potential of getting caught.

Yeah and those are the dads people end up crying about in therapy years later, and it's why some women keep picking dirtbags who cheat on them. Or they become alcoholics or whores themselves. Nice contribution to the world, create more dysfunctional people because your selfish ### needs the thrill of the chase. If you can't be with one chick, don't ####### get married and have kids. This is why the country is in the crapper.

In my experience it's the girls that grew up in "normal" environment that are the dirtiest of the whores. They're going to rebel once they hit a certain age. Sometimes it's better to have them rebelling against you making a pile of jag of yourself vs rebelling against your "normal" life and turning into a sperm deposit.

There will always be people who end up dysfunctional no matter what. More often than not though, positive role models make us better people, and negative ones cause maladaptive behaviors. I'm sensitive to this because my dad was a drunk and took off when I was young. If I ever have kids of my own, they will be the center of my universe come hell or high water. To talk about a dad "needing" to get his #### wet on the side really grates on me. A real dad sacrifices his selfish and immature pursuits for the sake of his kids.

It's disturbing that people today don't think they should have to deny any impulse. I guess it's the result of helicopter parenting and everyone feeling privileged and entitled. And it extends into every aspect of life, people acting ####ty toward each other in traffic, at the supermarket, at the movie theater, etc. We're a nation of spoiled, selfish #######s.

These rants certainly make you seem like a normal, well-adjusted individual.

Getting personally worked up about dads who put their own libido over their kids isn't an appropriate thing to rant about? (Not saying AZ Ron is doing this, but McG is pretty much spot on with his rant.)

The guy has to skype with his daughter before bed because he got caught indulging his libido inappropriately. I think it's fair to say he chose his libido over his kid, at least in the moment.Nice touch that he's trying to make it better for his daughter by lying to her. Because that's worked out well with the women in his life so far.

 

[mr roboto]

Why lie if it's supposed to be open?

Why not roll into the Four Seasons or similar?

Because the cheating, sneaking around, and lying is half the fun. It's what gets the adrenaline going. I would imagine even an open relationship with complete honesty could get dull. Some guys need the thrill of the chase and potential of getting caught.

Yeah and those are the dads people end up crying about in therapy years later, and it's why some women keep picking dirtbags who cheat on them. Or they become alcoholics or whores themselves. Nice contribution to the world, create more dysfunctional people because your selfish ### needs the thrill of the chase. If you can't be with one chick, don't ####### get married and have kids. This is why the country is in the crapper.

In my experience it's the girls that grew up in "normal" environment that are the dirtiest of the whores. They're going to rebel once they hit a certain age. Sometimes it's better to have them rebelling against you making a pile of jag of yourself vs rebelling against your "normal" life and turning into a sperm deposit.

There will always be people who end up dysfunctional no matter what. More often than not though, positive role models make us better people, and negative ones cause maladaptive behaviors. I'm sensitive to this because my dad was a drunk and took off when I was young. If I ever have kids of my own, they will be the center of my universe come hell or high water. To talk about a dad "needing" to get his #### wet on the side really grates on me. A real dad sacrifices his selfish and immature pursuits for the sake of his kids.

It's disturbing that people today don't think they should have to deny any impulse. I guess it's the result of helicopter parenting and everyone feeling privileged and entitled. And it extends into every aspect of life, people acting ####ty toward each other in traffic, at the supermarket, at the movie theater, etc. We're a nation of spoiled, selfish #######s.

These rants certainly make you seem like a normal, well-adjusted individual.

Getting personally worked up about dads who put their own libido over their kids isn't an appropriate thing to rant about? (Not saying AZ Ron is doing this, but McG is pretty much spot on with his rant.)

The guy has to skype with his daughter before bed because he got caught indulging his libido inappropriately. I think it's fair to say he chose his libido over his kid, at least in the moment.Nice touch that he's trying to make it better for his daughter by lying to her. Because that's worked out well with the women in his life so far.

Yea, but their marriage is a bit different. I would never suggest an open marriage (I personally don't believe it's 'right') and I think it's detrimental to the relationship but they both sort of agreed to this kind of life.

 

[Henry Ford]

Why lie if it's supposed to be open?

Why not roll into the Four Seasons or similar?

Because the cheating, sneaking around, and lying is half the fun. It's what gets the adrenaline going. I would imagine even an open relationship with complete honesty could get dull. Some guys need the thrill of the chase and potential of getting caught.

Yeah and those are the dads people end up crying about in therapy years later, and it's why some women keep picking dirtbags who cheat on them. Or they become alcoholics or whores themselves. Nice contribution to the world, create more dysfunctional people because your selfish ### needs the thrill of the chase. If you can't be with one chick, don't ####### get married and have kids. This is why the country is in the crapper.

In my experience it's the girls that grew up in "normal" environment that are the dirtiest of the whores. They're going to rebel once they hit a certain age. Sometimes it's better to have them rebelling against you making a pile of jag of yourself vs rebelling against your "normal" life and turning into a sperm deposit.

There will always be people who end up dysfunctional no matter what. More often than not though, positive role models make us better people, and negative ones cause maladaptive behaviors. I'm sensitive to this because my dad was a drunk and took off when I was young. If I ever have kids of my own, they will be the center of my universe come hell or high water. To talk about a dad "needing" to get his #### wet on the side really grates on me. A real dad sacrifices his selfish and immature pursuits for the sake of his kids.

It's disturbing that people today don't think they should have to deny any impulse. I guess it's the result of helicopter parenting and everyone feeling privileged and entitled. And it extends into every aspect of life, people acting ####ty toward each other in traffic, at the supermarket, at the movie theater, etc. We're a nation of spoiled, selfish #######s.

These rants certainly make you seem like a normal, well-adjusted individual.

Getting personally worked up about dads who put their own libido over their kids isn't an appropriate thing to rant about? (Not saying AZ Ron is doing this, but McG is pretty much spot on with his rant.)

The guy has to skype with his daughter before bed because he got caught indulging his libido inappropriately. I think it's fair to say he chose his libido over his kid, at least in the moment.Nice touch that he's trying to make it better for his daughter by lying to her. Because that's worked out well with the women in his life so far.

Yea, but their marriage is a bit different. I would never suggest an open marriage (I personally don't believe it's 'right') and I think it's detrimental to the relationship but they both sort of agreed to this kind of life.

Not sure she agreed to him lying to her.

 

[mr roboto]

Why lie if it's supposed to be open?

Why not roll into the Four Seasons or similar?

Because the cheating, sneaking around, and lying is half the fun. It's what gets the adrenaline going. I would imagine even an open relationship with complete honesty could get dull. Some guys need the thrill of the chase and potential of getting caught.

Yeah and those are the dads people end up crying about in therapy years later, and it's why some women keep picking dirtbags who cheat on them. Or they become alcoholics or whores themselves. Nice contribution to the world, create more dysfunctional people because your selfish ### needs the thrill of the chase. If you can't be with one chick, don't ####### get married and have kids. This is why the country is in the crapper.

In my experience it's the girls that grew up in "normal" environment that are the dirtiest of the whores. They're going to rebel once they hit a certain age. Sometimes it's better to have them rebelling against you making a pile of jag of yourself vs rebelling against your "normal" life and turning into a sperm deposit.

There will always be people who end up dysfunctional no matter what. More often than not though, positive role models make us better people, and negative ones cause maladaptive behaviors. I'm sensitive to this because my dad was a drunk and took off when I was young. If I ever have kids of my own, they will be the center of my universe come hell or high water. To talk about a dad "needing" to get his #### wet on the side really grates on me. A real dad sacrifices his selfish and immature pursuits for the sake of his kids.

It's disturbing that people today don't think they should have to deny any impulse. I guess it's the result of helicopter parenting and everyone feeling privileged and entitled. And it extends into every aspect of life, people acting ####ty toward each other in traffic, at the supermarket, at the movie theater, etc. We're a nation of spoiled, selfish #######s.

These rants certainly make you seem like a normal, well-adjusted individual.

Getting personally worked up about dads who put their own libido over their kids isn't an appropriate thing to rant about? (Not saying AZ Ron is doing this, but McG is pretty much spot on with his rant.)

The guy has to skype with his daughter before bed because he got caught indulging his libido inappropriately. I think it's fair to say he chose his libido over his kid, at least in the moment.Nice touch that he's trying to make it better for his daughter by lying to her. Because that's worked out well with the women in his life so far.

Yea, but their marriage is a bit different. I would never suggest an open marriage (I personally don't believe it's 'right') and I think it's detrimental to the relationship but they both sort of agreed to this kind of life.

Not sure she agreed to him lying to her.

Yea, there's always that. This is what I don't get. He has an open marriage. Isn't part of the point that you can have other women without having to lie? Why would you need to?

 

[Henry Ford]

No clue. Kinda seems sad.

 

[DrJ]

No clue. Kinda seems sad.

Ford used henchmen to run "secret police" who spied on employees. He had machine guns, tear gas, and a private army at the ready to deter union organizers. He cheated on his wife with his assistant and the assistant marry his chauffeur as a cover. - See more at: http://www.chacha.com/question/did-henry-ford-ever-cheat-on-his-wife#sthash.9oqLBp8A.dpuf

 

[Arizona Ron]

Good luck, buddy.Who do you think you'll be keeping in Oscar's league?

Nothing worth keeping this year. WR heavy never works out for me.

 

[Henry Ford]

No clue. Kinda seems sad.

Ford used henchmen to run "secret police" who spied on employees. He had machine guns, tear gas, and a private army at the ready to deter union organizers. He cheated on his wife with his assistant and the assistant marry his chauffeur as a cover. - See more at: http://www.chacha.com/question/did-henry-ford-ever-cheat-on-his-wife#sthash.9oqLBp8A.dpuf

Oh, wow. Yeah, sorry - I'm not actually Henry Ford. It's just my name on a message board.Are you really Dr. J? Because that would be way cooler.

 

[SteevieG]

No clue. Kinda seems sad.

That's the strangest part. If you're given the ability to eat all the cake you want, why not eat it without the possiblility of guilt. I mean, say who's cake you're eating and enjoy the taste, so to speak.

 

[Henry Ford]

No clue. Kinda seems sad.

That's the strangest part. If you're given the ability to eat all the cake you want, why not eat it without the possiblility of guilt. I mean, say who's cake you're eating and enjoy the taste, so to speak.

Yeah. Eat all the cake you want, just don't lie to me.So, what're you doing?Uh..... not eating cake. Cough, cough.

 

[Arizona Ron]

Why lie if it's supposed to be open?

Why not roll into the Four Seasons or similar?

Because the cheating, sneaking around, and lying is half the fun. It's what gets the adrenaline going. I would imagine even an open relationship with complete honesty could get dull. Some guys need the thrill of the chase and potential of getting caught.

Yeah and those are the dads people end up crying about in therapy years later, and it's why some women keep picking dirtbags who cheat on them. Or they become alcoholics or whores themselves. Nice contribution to the world, create more dysfunctional people because your selfish ### needs the thrill of the chase. If you can't be with one chick, don't ####### get married and have kids. This is why the country is in the crapper.

In my experience it's the girls that grew up in "normal" environment that are the dirtiest of the whores. They're going to rebel once they hit a certain age. Sometimes it's better to have them rebelling against you making a pile of jag of yourself vs rebelling against your "normal" life and turning into a sperm deposit.

There will always be people who end up dysfunctional no matter what. More often than not though, positive role models make us better people, and negative ones cause maladaptive behaviors. I'm sensitive to this because my dad was a drunk and took off when I was young. If I ever have kids of my own, they will be the center of my universe come hell or high water. To talk about a dad "needing" to get his #### wet on the side really grates on me. A real dad sacrifices his selfish and immature pursuits for the sake of his kids.

It's disturbing that people today don't think they should have to deny any impulse. I guess it's the result of helicopter parenting and everyone feeling privileged and entitled. And it extends into every aspect of life, people acting ####ty toward each other in traffic, at the supermarket, at the movie theater, etc. We're a nation of spoiled, selfish #######s.

These rants certainly make you seem like a normal, well-adjusted individual.

Getting personally worked up about dads who put their own libido over their kids isn't an appropriate thing to rant about? (Not saying AZ Ron is doing this, but McG is pretty much spot on with his rant.)

The guy has to skype with his daughter before bed because he got caught indulging his libido inappropriately. I think it's fair to say he chose his libido over his kid, at least in the moment.Nice touch that he's trying to make it better for his daughter by lying to her. Because that's worked out well with the women in his life so far.

Can you help me out since you've got everything figured out?

 

[Henry Ford]

Can you help me out since you've got everything figured out?

I don't have everything figured out, but yes, I can help you.Stop lying to people. You'll have less drama in your life.

 

[DrJ]

No clue. Kinda seems sad.

Ford used henchmen to run "secret police" who spied on employees. He had machine guns, tear gas, and a private army at the ready to deter union organizers. He cheated on his wife with his assistant and the assistant marry his chauffeur as a cover. - See more at: http://www.chacha.com/question/did-henry-ford-ever-cheat-on-his-wife#sthash.9oqLBp8A.dpuf

Oh, wow. Yeah, sorry - I'm not actually Henry Ford. It's just my name on a message board.Are you really Dr. J? Because that would be way cooler.

I wish. :(

 

[McGarnicle]

Between this and the child abuse thread, I'm on a nice judgmental streak lately.

 

[Arizona Ron]

My wife called me late yesterday and said that my daughter wants me to come home. Wife and I really didn't talk much last night as I spent most of the time awake with my daughter. We did decide, however, that we shouldn't let our daughter suffer because we have our issues.

 

[Keerock]

My wife called me late yesterday and said that my daughter wants me to come home. Wife and I really didn't talk much last night as I spent most of the time awake with my daughter. We did decide, however, that we shouldn't let our daughter suffer because we have our issues.

Please don't bring Angie or Girl #3 with you...

 

[Das Boot]

My wife called me late yesterday and said that my daughter wants me to come home. Wife and I really didn't talk much last night as I spent most of the time awake with my daughter. We did decide, however, that we shouldn't let our daughter suffer because we have our issues.

Please don't bring Angie or Girl #3 with you...

Ron wouldn't do that.The orgies are on the weekends while the daughter is at the sitter's house.

 

[trogg78]

While I've really enjoyed the ride I fear you aren't getting the best advice. If you really want your relationship to work I think your going to have to make some changes. That means seeing a therapist and going to sexaholics anonymous.

 

[shadyridr]

While I've really enjoyed the ride I fear you aren't getting the best advice. If you really want your relationship to work I think your going to have to make some changes. That means seeing a therapist and going to sexaholics anonymous.

 

[walnutz]

My wife called me late yesterday and said that my daughter wants me to come home. Wife and I really didn't talk much last night as I spent most of the time awake with my daughter. We did decide, however, that we shouldn't let our daughter suffer because we have our issues.

Ron - Wishing you the best man. This is been entertaining as hell but i find no pleasure in others pain. I hope that this works out for you all the way you want it to. Not sure what that may be as i have paid more attention to the entertainment value than the serious side. Anyway - good luck with it all. I hope you keep the updates coming on the resolution but understand if you don't.

 

[Hang 10]

Clearly the solution is dinner alone with your wife and then followed by an orgy involving girls 1-3, x-z, Lance, Angie and the bartender that is responsible for this mess.

 

[Godsbrother]

While I've really enjoyed the ride I fear you aren't getting the best advice. If you really want your relationship to work I think your going to have to make some changes. That means seeing a therapist and going to sexaholics anonymous.

I don't know anything about this organization but it seems to me it would be a great place to pick up horny women.

 

[VA703]

the answer is simple. buy a fleshlight and let your wife goto town on it

 

[McGarnicle]

I don't know if I believe the sexaholics/sex addiction spiel. I was engaged to someone a while back and was the biggest dog you could possibly imagine. Just cheated on her constantly. I would tell my boss I had a dentist appointment so I could go get some in the morning from some skank I met online. One weekend I was dogsitting for a friend and told the fiance' it would be a good opportunity for me to spend some time alone to think about our relationship. I had a girl visit and we went at it like wild animals, I probably popped 7 or 8 times and only stopped at like 3AM because it was so sore.The bottom line is that I was not in love with that woman and I was not ready to be married. Now I'm happily married, very much in love and would never consider cheating. I know it would devastate her. I can imagine her howling sobs, cursing me with that hurt in her voice very palpable. I've had several opportunities, and she would probably never find out...but you just never know, and I would have to live with the knowledge that I betrayed her. It's simply about being a man and being disciplined. Decide what you really want, and do what needs to be done to secure that. In this case, it means being very transparent with the wife about your whereabouts at all times until you build the trust back. Do special things for her unexpectedly so she knows you are serious about making it work. And obviously do what you need to do to avoid temptation, like avoiding certain establishments or going out with friends when you know their agenda is to pick up tail. If you don't think you can keep your #### from accidentally falling into the wrong #####, then by all means, do see a therapist about it.

 

[bierfiend]

i just think it comes down to what their priorities are. they entered the marriage with certain expectations, but over time it seems as if the relationship evolved into something different without them updating the rules of their arrangement. the first thing that needs to be addressed is transparency (by both parties). then they can get into what they each really want from the relationship and each other.in my humble opinion, the most important marker for a successful relationship is valuing the relationship as it's own entity. so when things aren't so smooth, you work at bettering "us" or "it." then they can focus on their own needs.

 

[jon_mx]

I am thinking those 3 racks all need to go to the wife.

 

[rail]

While I've really enjoyed the ride I fear you aren't getting the best advice. If you really want your relationship to work I think your going to have to make some changes. That means seeing a therapist and going to sexaholics anonymous.

I don't know anything about this organization but it seems to me it would be a great place to pick up horny women.

 

[Hang 10]

I don't know if I believe the sexaholics/sex addiction spiel. I was engaged to someone a while back and was the biggest dog you could possibly imagine. Just cheated on her constantly. I would tell my boss I had a dentist appointment so I could go get some in the morning from some skank I met online. One weekend I was dogsitting for a friend and told the fiance' it would be a good opportunity for me to spend some time alone to think about our relationship. I had a girl visit and we went at it like wild animals, I probably popped 7 or 8 times and only stopped at like 3AM because it was so sore.The bottom line is that I was not in love with that woman and I was not ready to be married. Now I'm happily married, very much in love and would never consider cheating. I know it would devastate her. I can imagine her howling sobs, cursing me with that hurt in her voice very palpable. I've had several opportunities, and she would probably never find out...but you just never know, and I would have to live with the knowledge that I betrayed her. It's simply about being a man and being disciplined. Decide what you really want, and do what needs to be done to secure that. In this case, it means being very transparent with the wife about your whereabouts at all times until you build the trust back. Do special things for her unexpectedly so she knows you are serious about making it work. And obviously do what you need to do to avoid temptation, like avoiding certain establishments or going out with friends when you know their agenda is to pick up tail. If you don't think you can keep your #### from accidentally falling into the wrong #####, then by all means, do see a therapist about it.

Hey look, everyone...Mcgarnicle got laid once.

 

[McGarnicle]

I don't know if I believe the sexaholics/sex addiction spiel. I was engaged to someone a while back and was the biggest dog you could possibly imagine. Just cheated on her constantly. I would tell my boss I had a dentist appointment so I could go get some in the morning from some skank I met online. One weekend I was dogsitting for a friend and told the fiance' it would be a good opportunity for me to spend some time alone to think about our relationship. I had a girl visit and we went at it like wild animals, I probably popped 7 or 8 times and only stopped at like 3AM because it was so sore.The bottom line is that I was not in love with that woman and I was not ready to be married. Now I'm happily married, very much in love and would never consider cheating. I know it would devastate her. I can imagine her howling sobs, cursing me with that hurt in her voice very palpable. I've had several opportunities, and she would probably never find out...but you just never know, and I would have to live with the knowledge that I betrayed her. It's simply about being a man and being disciplined. Decide what you really want, and do what needs to be done to secure that. In this case, it means being very transparent with the wife about your whereabouts at all times until you build the trust back. Do special things for her unexpectedly so she knows you are serious about making it work. And obviously do what you need to do to avoid temptation, like avoiding certain establishments or going out with friends when you know their agenda is to pick up tail. If you don't think you can keep your #### from accidentally falling into the wrong #####, then by all means, do see a therapist about it.

Hey look, everyone...Mcgarnicle got laid once.

Yeah funny stuff. AR made a comment a few days ago that he has a problem with wanting to nail everything that moves and I hoped my experience would illustrate that it's possible to overcome that. That kind of behavior is normal for most guys at some point in their lives and I think the whole "sex addiction" crap is just trying to demonize it or make it out to be abnormal.

 

[dparker713]

I don't know if I believe the sexaholics/sex addiction spiel. I was engaged to someone a while back and was the biggest dog you could possibly imagine. Just cheated on her constantly. I would tell my boss I had a dentist appointment so I could go get some in the morning from some skank I met online. One weekend I was dogsitting for a friend and told the fiance' it would be a good opportunity for me to spend some time alone to think about our relationship. I had a girl visit and we went at it like wild animals, I probably popped 7 or 8 times and only stopped at like 3AM because it was so sore.The bottom line is that I was not in love with that woman and I was not ready to be married. Now I'm happily married, very much in love and would never consider cheating. I know it would devastate her. I can imagine her howling sobs, cursing me with that hurt in her voice very palpable. I've had several opportunities, and she would probably never find out...but you just never know, and I would have to live with the knowledge that I betrayed her. It's simply about being a man and being disciplined. Decide what you really want, and do what needs to be done to secure that. In this case, it means being very transparent with the wife about your whereabouts at all times until you build the trust back. Do special things for her unexpectedly so she knows you are serious about making it work. And obviously do what you need to do to avoid temptation, like avoiding certain establishments or going out with friends when you know their agenda is to pick up tail. If you don't think you can keep your #### from accidentally falling into the wrong #####, then by all means, do see a therapist about it.

Hey look, everyone...Mcgarnicle got laid once.

Yeah funny stuff. AR made a comment a few days ago that he has a with wanting to nail everything that moves and I hoped my experience would illustrate that it's possible to overcome that. That kind of behavior is normal for most guys at some point in their lives and I think the whole "sex addiction" crap is just trying to demonize it or make it out to be abnormal.

Sex addition is probably less crap than ____ Anonymus. The amount of positive press those programs get for no results is mind-boggling.

 

[trogg78]

I don't know if I believe the sexaholics/sex addiction spiel. I was engaged to someone a while back and was the biggest dog you could possibly imagine. Just cheated on her constantly. I would tell my boss I had a dentist appointment so I could go get some in the morning from some skank I met online. One weekend I was dogsitting for a friend and told the fiance' it would be a good opportunity for me to spend some time alone to think about our relationship. I had a girl visit and we went at it like wild animals, I probably popped 7 or 8 times and only stopped at like 3AM because it was so sore.The bottom line is that I was not in love with that woman and I was not ready to be married. Now I'm happily married, very much in love and would never consider cheating. I know it would devastate her. I can imagine her howling sobs, cursing me with that hurt in her voice very palpable. I've had several opportunities, and she would probably never find out...but you just never know, and I would have to live with the knowledge that I betrayed her. It's simply about being a man and being disciplined. Decide what you really want, and do what needs to be done to secure that. In this case, it means being very transparent with the wife about your whereabouts at all times until you build the trust back. Do special things for her unexpectedly so she knows you are serious about making it work. And obviously do what you need to do to avoid temptation, like avoiding certain establishments or going out with friends when you know their agenda is to pick up tail. If you don't think you can keep your #### from accidentally falling into the wrong #####, then by all means, do see a therapist about it.

Hey look, everyone...Mcgarnicle got laid once.

Yeah funny stuff. AR made a comment a few days ago that he has a problem with wanting to nail everything that moves and I hoped my experience would illustrate that it's possible to overcome that. That kind of behavior is normal for most guys at some point in their lives and I think the whole "sex addiction" crap is just trying to demonize it or make it out to be abnormal.

They just try to help people control it by offering support and sponsors with people who have had similar experiences. It's just one step in convincing his wife that he wants to improve himself as a husband by seeking help.

 

[McGarnicle]

I don't know if I believe the sexaholics/sex addiction spiel. I was engaged to someone a while back and was the biggest dog you could possibly imagine. Just cheated on her constantly. I would tell my boss I had a dentist appointment so I could go get some in the morning from some skank I met online. One weekend I was dogsitting for a friend and told the fiance' it would be a good opportunity for me to spend some time alone to think about our relationship. I had a girl visit and we went at it like wild animals, I probably popped 7 or 8 times and only stopped at like 3AM because it was so sore.The bottom line is that I was not in love with that woman and I was not ready to be married. Now I'm happily married, very much in love and would never consider cheating. I know it would devastate her. I can imagine her howling sobs, cursing me with that hurt in her voice very palpable. I've had several opportunities, and she would probably never find out...but you just never know, and I would have to live with the knowledge that I betrayed her. It's simply about being a man and being disciplined. Decide what you really want, and do what needs to be done to secure that. In this case, it means being very transparent with the wife about your whereabouts at all times until you build the trust back. Do special things for her unexpectedly so she knows you are serious about making it work. And obviously do what you need to do to avoid temptation, like avoiding certain establishments or going out with friends when you know their agenda is to pick up tail. If you don't think you can keep your #### from accidentally falling into the wrong #####, then by all means, do see a therapist about it.

Hey look, everyone...Mcgarnicle got laid once.

Yeah funny stuff. AR made a comment a few days ago that he has a problem with wanting to nail everything that moves and I hoped my experience would illustrate that it's possible to overcome that. That kind of behavior is normal for most guys at some point in their lives and I think the whole "sex addiction" crap is just trying to demonize it or make it out to be abnormal.

They just try to help people control it by offering support and sponsors with people who have had similar experiences. It's just one step in convincing his wife that he wants to improve himself as a husband by seeking help.

Like I said before, get therapy if necessary, if he's really having trouble curbing those urges. I just don't buy the addiction model as being analogous to alcohol or cocaine addiction. I think it's a matter of rededicating yourself to the relationship, putting that energy there instead, and recognizing the consequences of straying. Of course marriage isn't for everyone too -- if he's not willing to sacrifice all that opportunity for strange ### for this woman, either he's the type who should always remain single or she's simply not the one. Turns my stomach to say that, knowing there is a kid involved, but she is probably better off if this is going to be a recurring pattern.

 

[pats3in4]

While I've really enjoyed the ride I fear you aren't getting the best advice. If you really want your relationship to work I think your going to have to make some changes. That means seeing a therapist and going to sexaholics anonymous.

I think you're at the point where you both need to seek therapy to move forward together. If you try to work things out on your own, you'll be right back in this same spot down the road.

 

[Wyld Stallyns]

All this therapy advice is bunk, remind your wife that she's living a pampered life and what you say goes. Tell her the details of your sexcapades are on a need-to-know basis and she'd better learn to deal.

 

[Godsbrother]

All this therapy advice is bunk, remind your wife that she's living a pampered life and what you say goes. Tell her the details of your sexcapades are on a need-to-know basis and she'd better learn to deal.

Then be prepared to pay up big bucks when she divorces you.

 

[Arizona Ron]

I booked an appointment to talk with someone through my insurance for Thursday.

 

[johnnycakes]

I don't know if I believe the sexaholics/sex addiction spiel. I was engaged to someone a while back and was the biggest dog you could possibly imagine. Just cheated on her constantly. I would tell my boss I had a dentist appointment so I could go get some in the morning from some skank I met online. One weekend I was dogsitting for a friend and told the fiance' it would be a good opportunity for me to spend some time alone to think about our relationship. I had a girl visit and we went at it like wild animals, I probably popped 7 or 8 times and only stopped at like 3AM because it was so sore.

The bottom line is that I was not in love with that woman and I was not ready to be married. Now I'm happily married, very much in love and would never consider cheating. I know it would devastate her. I can imagine her howling sobs, cursing me with that hurt in her voice very palpable. I've had several opportunities, and she would probably never find out...but you just never know, and I would have to live with the knowledge that I betrayed her.

It's simply about being a man and being disciplined. Decide what you really want, and do what needs to be done to secure that. In this case, it means being very transparent with the wife about your whereabouts at all times until you build the trust back. Do special things for her unexpectedly so she knows you are serious about making it work. And obviously do what you need to do to avoid temptation, like avoiding certain establishments or going out with friends when you know their agenda is to pick up tail. If you don't think you can keep your #### from accidentally falling into the wrong #####, then by all means, do see a therapist about it.

Hey look, everyone...Mcgarnicle got laid once.

Yeah funny stuff. AR made a comment a few days ago that he has a problem with wanting to nail everything that moves and I hoped my experience would illustrate that it's possible to overcome that. That kind of behavior is normal for most guys at some point in their lives and I think the whole "sex addiction" crap is just trying to demonize it or make it out to be abnormal.

They just try to help people control it by offering support and sponsors with people who have had similar experiences. It's just one step in convincing his wife that he wants to improve himself as a husband by seeking help.

I just don't buy the addiction model as being analogous to alcohol or cocaine addiction.

That's because you really don't know what you're talking about.

 

[shadyridr]

I booked an appointment to talk with someone through my insurance for Thursday.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I booked an appointment to talk with someone through my insurance for Thursday.

Do not bang the therapist.

 

[McGarnicle]

I don't know if I believe the sexaholics/sex addiction spiel. I was engaged to someone a while back and was the biggest dog you could possibly imagine. Just cheated on her constantly. I would tell my boss I had a dentist appointment so I could go get some in the morning from some skank I met online. One weekend I was dogsitting for a friend and told the fiance' it would be a good opportunity for me to spend some time alone to think about our relationship. I had a girl visit and we went at it like wild animals, I probably popped 7 or 8 times and only stopped at like 3AM because it was so sore.

The bottom line is that I was not in love with that woman and I was not ready to be married. Now I'm happily married, very much in love and would never consider cheating. I know it would devastate her. I can imagine her howling sobs, cursing me with that hurt in her voice very palpable. I've had several opportunities, and she would probably never find out...but you just never know, and I would have to live with the knowledge that I betrayed her.

It's simply about being a man and being disciplined. Decide what you really want, and do what needs to be done to secure that. In this case, it means being very transparent with the wife about your whereabouts at all times until you build the trust back. Do special things for her unexpectedly so she knows you are serious about making it work. And obviously do what you need to do to avoid temptation, like avoiding certain establishments or going out with friends when you know their agenda is to pick up tail. If you don't think you can keep your #### from accidentally falling into the wrong #####, then by all means, do see a therapist about it.

Hey look, everyone...Mcgarnicle got laid once.

Yeah funny stuff. AR made a comment a few days ago that he has a problem with wanting to nail everything that moves and I hoped my experience would illustrate that it's possible to overcome that. That kind of behavior is normal for most guys at some point in their lives and I think the whole "sex addiction" crap is just trying to demonize it or make it out to be abnormal.

They just try to help people control it by offering support and sponsors with people who have had similar experiences. It's just one step in convincing his wife that he wants to improve himself as a husband by seeking help.

I just don't buy the addiction model as being analogous to alcohol or cocaine addiction.

That's because you really don't know what you're talking about.

Then I guess neither do a lot of trained clinicians. There is no consensus about how this behavior should be classified or if it functions the same way in the brain as alcohol or drug addiction. Maybe you should do some reading on the subject as I have, #####.

 

[glumpy]

I've always felt that I could deal with anything as long as I knew what I was dealing with--might not like it but at least know where things stand. I think that's what I've been hearing from Mrs. Ron in this thread--she wants to be able to trust that he is saying when he's playing. She and he both have to know that at the end of the day it's the two of them together, and everything else is just for fun. Glad to see the door opened a crack to allow Ron to be with his daughter. It may take awhile to regain the trust of Mrs. Ron especially since they talked about this exact consideration not long ago--but the opportunity is there, and unless there are doubts on Ron's part I'd say it will be worth the effort he has to put into making it work again. Sounds now like there are two ladies who would have it otherwise. Good Luck.

 

[johnnycakes]

I don't know if I believe the sexaholics/sex addiction spiel. I was engaged to someone a while back and was the biggest dog you could possibly imagine. Just cheated on her constantly. I would tell my boss I had a dentist appointment so I could go get some in the morning from some skank I met online. One weekend I was dogsitting for a friend and told the fiance' it would be a good opportunity for me to spend some time alone to think about our relationship. I had a girl visit and we went at it like wild animals, I probably popped 7 or 8 times and only stopped at like 3AM because it was so sore.

The bottom line is that I was not in love with that woman and I was not ready to be married. Now I'm happily married, very much in love and would never consider cheating. I know it would devastate her. I can imagine her howling sobs, cursing me with that hurt in her voice very palpable. I've had several opportunities, and she would probably never find out...but you just never know, and I would have to live with the knowledge that I betrayed her.

It's simply about being a man and being disciplined. Decide what you really want, and do what needs to be done to secure that. In this case, it means being very transparent with the wife about your whereabouts at all times until you build the trust back. Do special things for her unexpectedly so she knows you are serious about making it work. And obviously do what you need to do to avoid temptation, like avoiding certain establishments or going out with friends when you know their agenda is to pick up tail. If you don't think you can keep your #### from accidentally falling into the wrong #####, then by all means, do see a therapist about it.

Hey look, everyone...Mcgarnicle got laid once.

Yeah funny stuff. AR made a comment a few days ago that he has a problem with wanting to nail everything that moves and I hoped my experience would illustrate that it's possible to overcome that. That kind of behavior is normal for most guys at some point in their lives and I think the whole "sex addiction" crap is just trying to demonize it or make it out to be abnormal.

They just try to help people control it by offering support and sponsors with people who have had similar experiences. It's just one step in convincing his wife that he wants to improve himself as a husband by seeking help.

I just don't buy the addiction model as being analogous to alcohol or cocaine addiction.

That's because you really don't know what you're talking about.

Then I guess neither do a lot of trained clinicians. There is no consensus about how this behavior should be classified or if it functions the same way in the brain as alcohol or drug addiction. Maybe you should do some reading on the subject as I have, #####.

I don't need to read about it, chief. I've lived enough, experienced enough, and been to enough group to hear others unravel it all. in short, you may have read about it; I have lived it. It is as I have posted previously in this thread. Won't go so far as to say it's a true "addiction", but behavior such as Ron's is rooted in dirt-poor self esteem. And it's a self-feeding cycle... low-self esteem generates ego-feeding behavior that, in turn grinds the self-esteem more into the ground. The starting point for recovery from this is to stop the negative behavior, by whatever means... that can break the self-feeding cycle, then the work starts to re-build self-esteem and get a fresh handle on life.

 

[McGarnicle]

I don't know if I believe the sexaholics/sex addiction spiel. I was engaged to someone a while back and was the biggest dog you could possibly imagine. Just cheated on her constantly. I would tell my boss I had a dentist appointment so I could go get some in the morning from some skank I met online. One weekend I was dogsitting for a friend and told the fiance' it would be a good opportunity for me to spend some time alone to think about our relationship. I had a girl visit and we went at it like wild animals, I probably popped 7 or 8 times and only stopped at like 3AM because it was so sore.

The bottom line is that I was not in love with that woman and I was not ready to be married. Now I'm happily married, very much in love and would never consider cheating. I know it would devastate her. I can imagine her howling sobs, cursing me with that hurt in her voice very palpable. I've had several opportunities, and she would probably never find out...but you just never know, and I would have to live with the knowledge that I betrayed her.

It's simply about being a man and being disciplined. Decide what you really want, and do what needs to be done to secure that. In this case, it means being very transparent with the wife about your whereabouts at all times until you build the trust back. Do special things for her unexpectedly so she knows you are serious about making it work. And obviously do what you need to do to avoid temptation, like avoiding certain establishments or going out with friends when you know their agenda is to pick up tail. If you don't think you can keep your #### from accidentally falling into the wrong #####, then by all means, do see a therapist about it.

Hey look, everyone...Mcgarnicle got laid once.

Yeah funny stuff. AR made a comment a few days ago that he has a problem with wanting to nail everything that moves and I hoped my experience would illustrate that it's possible to overcome that. That kind of behavior is normal for most guys at some point in their lives and I think the whole "sex addiction" crap is just trying to demonize it or make it out to be abnormal.

They just try to help people control it by offering support and sponsors with people who have had similar experiences. It's just one step in convincing his wife that he wants to improve himself as a husband by seeking help.

I just don't buy the addiction model as being analogous to alcohol or cocaine addiction.

That's because you really don't know what you're talking about.

Then I guess neither do a lot of trained clinicians. There is no consensus about how this behavior should be classified or if it functions the same way in the brain as alcohol or drug addiction. Maybe you should do some reading on the subject as I have, #####.

I don't need to read about it, chief. I've lived enough, experienced enough, and been to enough group to hear others unravel it all. in short, you may have read about it; I have lived it. It is as I have posted previously in this thread. Won't go so far as to say it's a true "addiction", but behavior such as Ron's is rooted in dirt-poor self esteem. And it's a self-feeding cycle... low-self esteem generates ego-feeding behavior that, in turn grinds the self-esteem more into the ground. The starting point for recovery from this is to stop the negative behavior, by whatever means... that can break the self-feeding cycle, then the work starts to re-build self-esteem and get a fresh handle on life.

So we agree completely. I've lived it too, as posted earlier in this thread and others. And it's interesting what you said about the ego thing and self-esteem, because I reveled in sharing all the stories when I hung out with my friends. At the time I thought they admired all the tail I was getting, but now I'm pretty sure they thought I was nuts.

 

[johnnycakes]

I don't know if I believe the sexaholics/sex addiction spiel. I was engaged to someone a while back and was the biggest dog you could possibly imagine. Just cheated on her constantly. I would tell my boss I had a dentist appointment so I could go get some in the morning from some skank I met online. One weekend I was dogsitting for a friend and told the fiance' it would be a good opportunity for me to spend some time alone to think about our relationship. I had a girl visit and we went at it like wild animals, I probably popped 7 or 8 times and only stopped at like 3AM because it was so sore.

The bottom line is that I was not in love with that woman and I was not ready to be married. Now I'm happily married, very much in love and would never consider cheating. I know it would devastate her. I can imagine her howling sobs, cursing me with that hurt in her voice very palpable. I've had several opportunities, and she would probably never find out...but you just never know, and I would have to live with the knowledge that I betrayed her.

It's simply about being a man and being disciplined. Decide what you really want, and do what needs to be done to secure that. In this case, it means being very transparent with the wife about your whereabouts at all times until you build the trust back. Do special things for her unexpectedly so she knows you are serious about making it work. And obviously do what you need to do to avoid temptation, like avoiding certain establishments or going out with friends when you know their agenda is to pick up tail. If you don't think you can keep your #### from accidentally falling into the wrong #####, then by all means, do see a therapist about it.

Hey look, everyone...Mcgarnicle got laid once.

Yeah funny stuff. AR made a comment a few days ago that he has a problem with wanting to nail everything that moves and I hoped my experience would illustrate that it's possible to overcome that. That kind of behavior is normal for most guys at some point in their lives and I think the whole "sex addiction" crap is just trying to demonize it or make it out to be abnormal.

They just try to help people control it by offering support and sponsors with people who have had similar experiences. It's just one step in convincing his wife that he wants to improve himself as a husband by seeking help.

I just don't buy the addiction model as being analogous to alcohol or cocaine addiction.

That's because you really don't know what you're talking about.

Then I guess neither do a lot of trained clinicians. There is no consensus about how this behavior should be classified or if it functions the same way in the brain as alcohol or drug addiction. Maybe you should do some reading on the subject as I have, #####.

I don't need to read about it, chief. I've lived enough, experienced enough, and been to enough group to hear others unravel it all. in short, you may have read about it; I have lived it. It is as I have posted previously in this thread. Won't go so far as to say it's a true "addiction", but behavior such as Ron's is rooted in dirt-poor self esteem. And it's a self-feeding cycle... low-self esteem generates ego-feeding behavior that, in turn grinds the self-esteem more into the ground. The starting point for recovery from this is to stop the negative behavior, by whatever means... that can break the self-feeding cycle, then the work starts to re-build self-esteem and get a fresh handle on life.

So we agree completely. I've lived it too, as posted earlier in this thread and others. And it's interesting what you said about the ego thing and self-esteem, because I reveled in sharing all the stories when I hung out with my friends. At the time I thought they admired all the tail I was getting, but now I'm pretty sure they thought I was nuts.

We sort of agree. What I was taking issue with was your assertion that the behavior was not analagous to addictive behavior such as displayed by alcoholics or drug addicts. In my mind, it's all a matter of one's drug of choice, but the underlying problem is the same for all these categories... low self-esteem resulting in ego-feeding behavior that further grinds down self-esteem. That's a cycle of behavior. Some people may consider the distinction between this cycle and an addiction to be merely one of semantics. It's certainly not a physical addiction, but psychological addition can be very compelling as any former cigarette smoker can attest. I also don't think he can just think his way out of this on his own. He needs the counseling because he really cannot trust what's rattling around in his head... having to actually vocalize his thoughts and be challenged by an impartial person can be very valuable.

 

[SeaDogStat]

I booked an appointment to talk with someone through my insurance for Thursday.

Do not bang the therapist.

Unless she's smoking hot...or will add another twist to this tale tail yeah, tale...

 

[McGarnicle]

I don't know if I believe the sexaholics/sex addiction spiel. I was engaged to someone a while back and was the biggest dog you could possibly imagine. Just cheated on her constantly. I would tell my boss I had a dentist appointment so I could go get some in the morning from some skank I met online. One weekend I was dogsitting for a friend and told the fiance' it would be a good opportunity for me to spend some time alone to think about our relationship. I had a girl visit and we went at it like wild animals, I probably popped 7 or 8 times and only stopped at like 3AM because it was so sore.

The bottom line is that I was not in love with that woman and I was not ready to be married. Now I'm happily married, very much in love and would never consider cheating. I know it would devastate her. I can imagine her howling sobs, cursing me with that hurt in her voice very palpable. I've had several opportunities, and she would probably never find out...but you just never know, and I would have to live with the knowledge that I betrayed her.

It's simply about being a man and being disciplined. Decide what you really want, and do what needs to be done to secure that. In this case, it means being very transparent with the wife about your whereabouts at all times until you build the trust back. Do special things for her unexpectedly so she knows you are serious about making it work. And obviously do what you need to do to avoid temptation, like avoiding certain establishments or going out with friends when you know their agenda is to pick up tail. If you don't think you can keep your #### from accidentally falling into the wrong #####, then by all means, do see a therapist about it.

Hey look, everyone...Mcgarnicle got laid once.

Yeah funny stuff. AR made a comment a few days ago that he has a problem with wanting to nail everything that moves and I hoped my experience would illustrate that it's possible to overcome that. That kind of behavior is normal for most guys at some point in their lives and I think the whole "sex addiction" crap is just trying to demonize it or make it out to be abnormal.

They just try to help people control it by offering support and sponsors with people who have had similar experiences. It's just one step in convincing his wife that he wants to improve himself as a husband by seeking help.

I just don't buy the addiction model as being analogous to alcohol or cocaine addiction.

That's because you really don't know what you're talking about.

Then I guess neither do a lot of trained clinicians. There is no consensus about how this behavior should be classified or if it functions the same way in the brain as alcohol or drug addiction. Maybe you should do some reading on the subject as I have, #####.

I don't need to read about it, chief. I've lived enough, experienced enough, and been to enough group to hear others unravel it all. in short, you may have read about it; I have lived it. It is as I have posted previously in this thread. Won't go so far as to say it's a true "addiction", but behavior such as Ron's is rooted in dirt-poor self esteem. And it's a self-feeding cycle... low-self esteem generates ego-feeding behavior that, in turn grinds the self-esteem more into the ground. The starting point for recovery from this is to stop the negative behavior, by whatever means... that can break the self-feeding cycle, then the work starts to re-build self-esteem and get a fresh handle on life.

So we agree completely. I've lived it too, as posted earlier in this thread and others. And it's interesting what you said about the ego thing and self-esteem, because I reveled in sharing all the stories when I hung out with my friends. At the time I thought they admired all the tail I was getting, but now I'm pretty sure they thought I was nuts.

We sort of agree. What I was taking issue with was your assertion that the behavior was not analagous to addictive behavior such as displayed by alcoholics or drug addicts. In my mind, it's all a matter of one's drug of choice, but the underlying problem is the same for all these categories... low self-esteem resulting in ego-feeding behavior that further grinds down self-esteem. That's a cycle of behavior. Some people may consider the distinction between this cycle and an addiction to be merely one of semantics. It's certainly not a physical addiction, but psychological addition can be very compelling as any former cigarette smoker can attest. I also don't think he can just think his way out of this on his own. He needs the counseling because he really cannot trust what's rattling around in his head... having to actually vocalize his thoughts and be challenged by an impartial person can be very valuable.

You're saying the root of all substance addictions is low self-esteem?

 

[johnnycakes]

You're saying the root of all substance addictions is low self-esteem?

It's a big, big part of it. I have never met an addict or alcoholic who didn't have very low self-esteem. Not once. And I have met hundreds, if not thousands. It seems to be a pervasive theme among all addicts and alcoholics. that said, I never use "global" terminology and I would never say that the root of ALL substance addictions is ALWAYS low self esteem. There are always exceptions. And anyone who has taken a freshman-level course in stats knows that correlation does not equal causality. But from what I have seen, low self esteem goes hand-in-hand with addictive behaviors, especially when talking about drugs, alcohol, and sex. Probably other addictive behaviors as well (eating disorders, compulsive spending, for example), but I'm not going to go into those, though the people I know who have had eating disorders or who were compulsive spenders also had really low self-esteem. Karen Carpenter is one public example (eating disorder) and my ex-wife is another (compulsive spender which, when the funds got cut off during the divorce process, turned into a sex disorder resulting in her getting the herp).