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Looking for a hybrid/electric vehicle for our son (1 Viewer)

gianmarco

gianmarco

Footballguy
Our son will be starting to drive in the next 3-4 months. When considering how to go about this, we started thinking that a hybrid/EV might be a good way to go. But, we've never owned one. 

Doesn't need to be too big or fast or anything. Would like for him to be able to drive his two younger sisters at times if need be and then something he can take with him when he leaves for college.

Open to new or used, but again given the current used car environment, we are thinking new is the way to go. Plus, would still get a federal refund if I'm not mistaken.

The Kia Niro hybrid is currently at the top of the list.  Gets ~45-50+ mpg. It comes in a full EV option as well but it's far more expensive.  Prius and Leaf other options we are looking at.

Any collective wisdom on the above would be appreciated. Is an EV for a student a good idea? Other EVs to consider? Things to look out for? Ideas how to get one at the best price?

 
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gianmarco said:
The Kia Niro hybrid is currently at the top of the list.  Gets ~45-50+ mpg.
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Is that a gas/electric hybrid, or does it take a charge? How does that work, anyway? I know people with hybrids that never charge. My mother owns one. I don't think it even takes a charge anywhere. It's just gas and switches over to electric. 

That might help you frame your questions to the people on the board, actually. I wouldn't tell you or presume to know, but you're a first-time buyer and you might not know either. 

 
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rockaction said:
Is that a gas/electric hybrid, or does it take a charge? How does that work, anyway? I know people with hybrids that never charge. My mother owns one. I don't think it even takes a charge anywhere. It's just gas and switches over to electric. 

That might help you frame your questions to the people on the board, actually. I wouldn't tell you or presume to know, but you're a first-time buyer and you might not know either. 
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There's hybrids and plug-in hybrids. hybrids do not plug in. The battery is charged via regenerative braking and other systems while the car is operating. plug-ins obviously can be charged with a connection while parked. some plug-ins can run on electric alone for 20-40 miles. some can't. i've had a hybrid and and plug-in, both used both motors. no pure electric drive on either. both fusions, 2014 went 140k before being traded for the 2019 plugi-in, which is my daughter's car now. We. haven't. had. one. issue. Save for a few recalls 0n the 2014 which were handled quickly. 

my current driver is all electric. if the money works, it is the way i would go. although that maverick truck for under 25k looks like the best deal on the market to me.

 
For a new driver I’m buying a cheap gas fueled car. Let them beat that up before spending any real dough. My 16 year old drives a 2004 Ford Escape we bought for 3K and he paid half. He loves it because he has skin in the game. Pays his own gas, so he has learned if he doesn’t have a job he doesn’t drive. It’s a great motivator.

 
ChiefD said:
For a new driver I’m buying a cheap gas fueled car. Let them beat that up before spending any real dough. My 16 year old drives a 2004 Ford Escape we bought for 3K and he paid half. He loves it because he has skin in the game. Pays his own gas, so he has learned if he doesn’t have a job he doesn’t drive. It’s a great motivator.
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i gave my kid a great stupid silly great deal on the 2019 fusion but made her finance it through her bank to establish credit. 

 
ChiefD said:
For a new driver I’m buying a cheap gas fueled car. Let them beat that up before spending any real dough. My 16 year old drives a 2004 Ford Escape we bought for 3K and he paid half. He loves it because he has skin in the game. Pays his own gas, so he has learned if he doesn’t have a job he doesn’t drive. It’s a great motivator.
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Yeah, unfortunately, even used cars that I've looked at are outrageous. Anything under $10K has 150K+ miles. We aren't going that route. Anything with any reasonable mileage is $15K+.

I'd rather get this new Kia that will come in under $25K after rebates and have it last a lot longer. 

Going to look through that list from above and see if I can find anything similarly priced or less. Unfortunately some of the EV vehicles are pricey and/or just aren't available. Checked a couple Toyota dealerships and they have no Priuses. 

Just not a good time to do this so trying to figure out the best option. 

 
Mrs. Rannous said:
We have one of these.  We love it.  If you have specific questions about how it drives, etc, let me know.
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Can you tell me about how it plugs in, what you need? I'm completely clueless on this stuff. Any issues with range? Reasonable for a 17-18 year old to drive, take to college?

 
gianmarco said:
Can you tell me about how it plugs in, what you need? I'm completely clueless on this stuff. Any issues with range? Reasonable for a 17-18 year old to drive, take to college?
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If you get the regular hybrid, it doesn't plug in at all - you just put gas in it, and it charges while you drive.  This is our setup, and we routinely get 425-450 miles for each 10 gallon tank of regular gas.  It's very reasonable (if maybe a little fancy) for a college student's car - it's basically a small SUV/crossover vehicle, seats 4 adult sized people with plenty of room for stuff in the back.  Driving the Niro is just like driving any other car or SUV I've owned - it's peppy (but not sporty), comfortable, and has enough room to handle small furniture or multiple laundry bags cargo duty.  You only really notice the difference when traveling at slow residential road speeds or when you stop at lights and the engine cuts off entirely and the car just runs off the battery.

A regular hybrid is probably more appropriate for a college student than a plug in hybrid or a full electric.  For either you'd need a charging station, which most people setup in their garage - something a college student will probably not have access to.  You can check for charging stations online like you would gas stations, but they can be rare and usually take a bit of time to charge.  So, I would say to really get the benefit of full electric, you need to charge at home, which just isn't an option.

 
Val Rannous said:
If you get the regular hybrid, it doesn't plug in at all - you just put gas in it, and it charges while you drive.  This is our setup, and we routinely get 425-450 miles for each 10 gallon tank of regular gas.  It's very reasonable (if maybe a little fancy) for a college student's car - it's basically a small SUV/crossover vehicle, seats 4 adult sized people with plenty of room for stuff in the back.  Driving the Niro is just like driving any other car or SUV I've owned - it's peppy (but not sporty), comfortable, and has enough room to handle small furniture or multiple laundry bags cargo duty.  You only really notice the difference when traveling at slow residential road speeds or when you stop at lights and the engine cuts off entirely and the car just runs off the battery.

A regular hybrid is probably more appropriate for a college student than a plug in hybrid or a full electric.  For either you'd need a charging station, which most people setup in their garage - something a college student will probably not have access to.  You can check for charging stations online like you would gas stations, but they can be rare and usually take a bit of time to charge.  So, I would say to really get the benefit of full electric, you need to charge at home, which just isn't an option.
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Thanks :)

But, from what I initially read, I thought this hybrid of Niro is a plug in.

 
Not an expert and there are a lot of diff models but I had looked into the EVs a bit before buying my last car.

I believe a used Nissan Leaf or the BMW i3 are some of the cheaper EV options. These are both fully EV’s (some i3’s come with a very small backup gas tank as well).Think you can find these for less than 20K. 

Range is around around 150 miles or so, probably less depending on how they are driven.

Some of the first gen Leafs are very cheap but range is much shorter, like 70 miles.

Can plug these into a regular wall socket but will get only 4 miles per hour of recharge. Definitely research this if you seriously consider a used EV. Lots of chargers around that are much faster but there is a lot you need to consider when buying one of these. Much cheaper fuel, less parts to replace is very nice but lots of limitations as well. 

 
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The General said:
Not an expert and there are a lot of diff models but I have looked into the EVs a bit before buying my last car.

I believe a used Nissan Leaf or the BMW i3 are some of the cheaper EV options. These are both fully EV’s (some i3’s come with a very small backup gas tank as well).Think you can find these for less than 20K. 

Range is around around 150 miles or so, probably less depending on how they are driven.

Some of the first gen Leafs are very cheap but range is much shorter, like 70 miles.

Can plug these into a regular wall socket but will get only 4 miles per hour of recharge. Definitely research this if you seriously consider a used EV. Lots of chargers around that are much faster but there is a lot you need to consider when buying one of these. 
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great post

charging infrastructure is improving but we’re not there  yet, not by a long shot. but when you charge at home, nothing beats waking up to a full tank every day.

challenging for apartment dwellers (like most of NYC) but you soon learn which stores have charging. it’s a lifestyle adjustment but not totally insane, you adapt. 

 
@gianmarco

since he’ll be at home for a couple more years, just install a dryer plug in the garage. 220, either 40 or 50 amp depending on your panel. if you don’t have to upgrade the fuse box should only be a few hundred.

like I said, nothing beats waking up to a full tank, every single day. if you’re in an area with off peak electricity, you can set a timer on the app to charge while you’re sleeping and the rate is discounted.

M2M your electric bill will rise $30-50 a month, depends on rate which varies by region. 

 
BobbyLayne said:
great post

charging infrastructure is improving but we’re not there  yet, not by a long shot. but when you charge at home, nothing beats waking up to a full tank every day.

challenging for apartment dwellers (like most of NYC) but you soon learn which stores have charging. it’s a lifestyle adjustment but not totally insane, you adapt. 
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Yep to all this. 

I think the old Leafs that are under 10k for instance would have been a very good car for me in college for like 90% of my needs. I biked to class, but would use this to get to work, get around town etc when I’d drive every couple days.  

Thats not going to work in some situations though so just have to know going in what you need. 

 
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The General said:
Yep to all this. 

I think the old Leafs that are under 10k for instance would have been a very good car for me in college for like 90% of my needs. I biked to class, but would use this to get to work, get around town etc when I’d drive every couple days.  

Thats not going to work in some situations though so just have to know going in what you need. 
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Yeah, he's finishing his junior year of HS so no idea where he's going for college yet.  Thus, hard to predict what those needs will be.   I'm getting wary of getting something that will need to be plugged in regularly in case that won't end up being available but I suppose we can always reevaluate in another year if the situation changes even if we get one.  It's kind of cool to finally look into these and I'm actually thinking this will be good to see if this is what we may want moving forward for us as well. 

 
gianmarco said:
Yeah, he's finishing his junior year of HS so no idea where he's going for college yet.  Thus, hard to predict what those needs will be.   I'm getting wary of getting something that will need to be plugged in regularly in case that won't end up being available but I suppose we can always reevaluate in another year if the situation changes even if we get one.  It's kind of cool to finally look into these and I'm actually thinking this will be good to see if this is what we may want moving forward for us as well. 
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You can literally run an extension cord to plug into an outlet but it can be tricky for sure if you are a college kid. I’d think college towns would be pretty good spots for chargers but yeah hard to plan out in your situation. 

On the EV topic at your home as @BobbyLayne mentioned a dryer plug (220) added in your garage and you don’t have to worry about looking for chargers elsewhere even if you drive a ton each day you would be fully charged every morning.

I use a normal wall plug in but have high speed chargers at work and don’t drive a ton. After the first few months of dealing with range anxiety I don’t think about it ever anymore. 

 
gianmarco said:
Thanks :)

But, from what I initially read, I thought this hybrid of Niro is a plug in.
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Yes, you are correct - but note that Kia sells 3 versions of the Niro - the full electric, the plug-in hybrid, and the standard hybrid.  The difference between the standard and plug-versions is the plug-in has a larger battery, with the intent you give it a charge at home and it'll not need the gas engine at all for super short trips (I believe the electric only range for the plug-in is something like 25 miles round trip).  In all other instances, the plug-in and the standard hybrid are pretty much identical.  If your kid was going to be home where you can get that charge for short trips, the plug-in might be worth the additional $5000 Kia asks for it (Standard hybrid starting price $24500, plug-in starting price $29500), but at college without easy access to charging I'd say save the money, or maybe put it towards some of the nicer trim (the heated and cooled leather seats are the bomb).

If you're interested in the seeing the standard model at the same dealer, here's the standard version review.

 
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Val Rannous said:
Yes, you are correct - but note that Kia sells 3 versions of the Niro - the full electric, the plug-in hybrid, and the standard hybrid.  The difference between the standard and plug-versions is the plug-in has a larger battery, with the intent you give it a charge at home and it'll not need the gas engine at all for super short trips (I believe the electric only range for the plug-in is something like 25 miles round trip).  In all other instances, the plug-in and the standard hybrid are pretty much identical.  If your kid was going to be home where you can get that charge for short trips, the plug-in might be worth the additional $5000 Kia asks for it (Standard hybrid starting price $24500, plug-in starting price $29500), but at college without easy access to charging I'd say save the money, or maybe put it towards some of the nicer trim (the heated and cooled leather seats are the bomb).

If you're interested in the seeing the standard model at the same dealer, here's the standard version review.
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With the almost $5K rebate for the plug in hybrid, they end up costing about the same. 

But now I understand and didn't realize it came in that 3rd version.  

 
I have a plug-in minivan lease

probably gets 25-30 miles per charge.  Not bad for running errands and stuff but we don’t always remember to charge it but I am getting better about it

i just have the stock charger that runs off 110 so it’s like 12-16 hours for a full charge

my 2 cents being in the industry is that electric is definitely the future but it’s still early on and a lot of development still ongoing.  The OEM are going gangbusters on ramping up though 

 
can he take a car to school freshman year?   didn't think that used to be a thing but i'm sure i'm behind on the times. 

 
gianmarco said:
With the almost $5K rebate for the plug in hybrid, they end up costing about the same. 

But now I understand and didn't realize it came in that 3rd version.  
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Ah!  Yes, at that price, go for the plug-in, as you can get benefits there for basically no extra charge.

Weirdly enough, I made the opposite choice and went without the plug in, but for a paranoid reason.  The extra battery space needed for the plug in's batteries took out the spare tire opening, and the Eagle Scout in me just couldn't deal without being prepared for a flat - and I've had too many blowouts over the years to believe in air-up kits...

 
I wanted the true hybrid for a different reason.  That 75-150 mile range could be more than used up in a single trip across a city the size of Houston.  I really don't feel like being stranded somewhere.

my 2 cents being in the industry is that electric is definitely the future but it’s still early on and a lot of development still ongoing. 
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 And I didn't want to be a beta tester.

 
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Depending on timing, Ford Maverick orders for 2023MY open up in August.  Hybrids will likely start around 22K MSRP. 

I bought one in February and it is fantastic. I may hold into it for my son, but I may flip it this fall. I can probably make $10K selling it to CarMax or the like. 

 
Dan Lambskin said:
One other point for the OP is that insurance costs are going to be higher as well, electric vehicles much more expensive to repair
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Don't think this is true at all.  On either account.   

 
I've got 15 years and 265K miles, and counting, on a Prius that is a beast of a little car.  Move my daughter to school in that hatchback.  Used car prices are insane but I've seen Prius prices that seem reasonable.  I know people are spooked by the potential of an expensive hybrid battery replacement but there are now many competitive options outside Toyota.

Repairs can be a little pricey; some small shops don't like to deal with anything part of the hybrid system.  My Toyota dealership is reasonable, though.

I'd scan the used car market and hope to find one reasonably priced.

 
Dan Lambskin said:
I could be wrong, I know my insurance went up when we switched to the hybrid, but the vehicle value is more so I guess that could be why

Depends on the damage but this seems to support it

https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/is-there-any-difference-in-electric-car-insurance/

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/car-insurance/electric-vehicle/
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I mean a more expensive car costs more to fix.  For the moment EV of all flavors are more expensive.  The fact that there's a battery system in the mix makes no real difference. 

 
BobbyLayne said:
@gianmarco

since he’ll be at home for a couple more years, just install a dryer plug in the garage. 220, either 40 or 50 amp depending on your panel. if you don’t have to upgrade the fuse box should only be a few hundred.

like I said, nothing beats waking up to a full tank, every single day. if you’re in an area with off peak electricity, you can set a timer on the app to charge while you’re sleeping and the rate is discounted.

M2M your electric bill will rise $30-50 a month, depends on rate which varies by region. 
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Dryer plugs are limited to 30 amps. For a dedicated Level 2 EV charger you want a NEMA 14-50 plug on a 60 amp breaker.

 
Ron Swanson said:
Dryer plugs are limited to 30 amps. For a dedicated Level 2 EV charger you want a NEMA 14-50 plug on a 60 amp breaker.
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Right, thanks mate.

Also, a 30 amp will deliver 24A of current, or around 18 mph if you’re charging a Tesla. More than sufficient for 95%-98% of drivers.

Think of it this way - let’s say you’re home 12 hours after school or work. Plug in as you walk from the car to into the house. Unplug when you leave. You can program it through the phone app to start/stop as you wish, charge to 80 or 90 percent, et al. Anyway, plug in at 7pm, unplug at 7am, you’ve added 216 miles.

(Though it’s recommended to only charge to 90% unless you’re immediately leaving for a lengthy trip as soon as charging  completes.….yeah, enough pedantry eh.)

Other home charging solutions:

50 amp will deliver a 40A current, or 30 mph.

The Tesla Wall Charger (looks sweet & marginally faster, wholly unnecessary.) will give you about 44 mph. Woot.

These are oldish numbers based on 75/90/100 kw batteries -  the Model 3/Y are likely more efficient?

***************

FYI since people always wonder:

For road trips, supercharging will net you around 200mph in 15 minutes. Depending on which Model Tesla, max range is 300-400 but it’s a bit irrelevant.

You generally keep the battery between 20% and 80% for battery management our purposes, same as your mobile device. For a couple solid reasons you don’t charge up to 109% or run it down to less than 5%.

You could, there’s so much redundancy built into the cars internal BMS (battery management system) it’s virtually impossible to brick them and the degradation to the battery over a number of years will relatively minor….sorry, this turned into a rabbit trail.  

There are SO MANY many choices in the EV market now and it’s just getting wider. I’m only using this EV bc it’s the best road trip EV (bc the supercharger network is coast to coast) and I’m familiar with it.

 
culdeus said:
There's not a home 60amp charger yet I'm aware of. 30amps for overnight charging is plenty.  
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Not 60 amp charger, 60 amp breaker.  You want a 60 amp breaker to run a 50 amp circuit. This is the correct setup for a 48 amp charger, which is pretty common.  I have one in my garage. But you are absolutely correct, not needed in most "overnight charge" scenarios. I leave mine set at 20 amps most of the time and charge overnight when rates are lower.  But if I ever need to, I can ramp it up higher.

 
Ron Swanson said:
Not 60 amp charger, 60 amp breaker.  You want a 60 amp breaker to run a 50 amp circuit. This is the correct setup for a 48 amp charger, which is pretty common.  I have one in my garage. But you are absolutely correct, not needed in most "overnight charge" scenarios. I leave mine set at 20 amps most of the time and charge overnight when rates are lower.  But if I ever need to, I can ramp it up higher.
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Did you have to add to your electrical  panel when you added the 60A?

I don’t actually know the constraints or understand enough about it. Just noticed a lot of folks end up spending a little more when they want to setup dual chargers (bc 2 EVs) or high speed or what not.

 
BobbyLayne said:
Did you have to add to your electrical  panel when you added the 60A?

I don’t actually know the constraints or understand enough about it. Just noticed a lot of folks end up spending a little more when they want to setup dual chargers (bc 2 EVs) or high speed or what not.
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Not my main panel but the subpanel and wiring to the garage.

 
culdeus said:
Don't think this is true at all.  On either account.   
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I can confirm, with respect to an EV. My insurance (USAA) did not rise at all with my EV. And I’m currently a little over 16,000 miles in 11 months, with zero issues, maintenance or repairs.

 
My 16yr old is getting my Mitsu Outlander PHEV when she is ready to drive. 

Good size but not overly big. Good ride overall, and its a 4WD which is rare for an electric (at last when I was shopping). It does not have a transmission, it has a separate engine for the back wheels when engaged. 

I dont plug it in anymore, just use the gas, but might start with the recent fuel costs. I work from home, so I dont use it often.   

 
Right now, there's 4 total Niro PHEV available in the country that I see.  2 in Denver and 2 in PA.  I'm actually looking into these.  Otherwise the regular hybrid will also work but won't be available for a couple more weeks and even then, it's FCFS.

This market  :(

 
jabarony said:
I would recommend against this. 
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Yeah. Not the best but is an option. I use a 110 outlet at home, but have access to free high speed charger at work. If only driving 40 miles a day or so I think I could still use just 110. 

Figuring out these situations and people’s different driving needs all have to be taken into account when thinking about going EV for sure. 

 
The General said:
Yeah. Not the best but is an option. I use a 110 outlet at home, but have access to free high speed charger at work. If only driving 40 miles a day or so I think I could still use just 110. 

Figuring out these situations and people’s different driving needs all have to be taken into account when thinking about going EV for sure. 
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That's still a sustained 5 amps.  While I would never recommend such a thing I would run a strip of Romex rated for 10 and terminate it before some yard cord meant for Christmas lights or a Hitachi magic wand. 

 
I have a Tesla as a rental currently. I would not recommend it. The ergonomics are awful. They tried to be too clever in so much of their design. 

 
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