Lovie Smith: Should he be on the hot seat? (1 Viewer)

[yoman]

After reading the Mike Shanahan thread I decided that nobody is talking about Lovie Smith and the terrible job of coaching that he did this year. I think he has picked terrible coordinators and I really think letting Rivera go was a huge mistake. Bob Babich has been brutal. It is obvious that the defense didn't make many adjustments during the season and never put pressure on the QB all season. It is amazing how many times this season they have been caught out of position and instead of lining up and covering a guy a receiver being wide open was a fault of a player making a wrong read instead of lining someone up against that receiver and getting beaten. This was clearly evidenced yesterday when Andre Johnson burned the Bears for a 43 yard TD pass and it appeared that nobody was on him. How stupid can you be not to account for arguably the best WR in football. The Bears also seemed to never change their philosophy of moving Urlacher around when it appeared that it was taking away from his already diminishing abilities to make plays. It took an injury to Dusty Dvorjek before they put in Anthony Adams who was clearly a better player. These are just a few observations from the defense and I can actually recount plenty more.

Squib kick against Atlanta was clearly Lovie's fault. Also the missed assignment that allowed Jenkins to catch a pass and get out of bounds might have been worse coaching then the Squib kick.

The offensive line was better than expected but they overused Forte. He was clearly worn down by the end of the season and was pretty much a non-factor against the Texans. There has to be a better more imaginative offensive coordinator than Ron Turner but I actually blame the GM more than anyone because the Bears have the worst group of WRs in football which was evidenced by teams putting their number 1 cornerback on Olsen.

Lastly the thing that bothers me about Lovie which might be unfair is that he never shows any emotion on the sideline. I would love for him just once to get in the face of someone or look like he is actually coaching on gameday. I don't think the Bears make great locker room adjustments and they seem to keep gameplans exactly the same against opponents if it worked the first time which allows for the other teams to make adjustments to them.

I am going to stop ranting here but I would love to hear from other people about what they think of Lovie.

 

[Eminence]

Bears homer here...

2 Division Titles

3 Winning Seasons

2 Losing Seasons

45-35 Overall Record.

.777 career.

---

After nearly making the playoffs after what was supposed to be an "abysmal" year? I like what I'm seeing. Keep Lovie, new DC for sure.

We can only do better from here on out, we got our first round lineman soon.

 

[TitusIII]

Lovie Smith is a good NFL coach, his coordinators, not so much...he has a fine record...11 games over .500 and shouldn't be anywhere near a hot seat, imo...

 

[gigantor]

quite the opposite. i think most people didn't expect the bears to win 6 this year, so 9 is pretty impressive

 

[yoman]

quite the opposite. i think most people didn't expect the bears to win 6 this year, so 9 is pretty impressive

I agree with your initial assessment about 6 wins but I think he underachieved so much the year before that the bar was set really low. Their offensive line was better than last season which isn't saying much especially since one of their lineman played the first game with 1 healthy arm. The removal of Grossman/Benson immediately improved the team. Forte emerged which was one of the few times a draft choice has worked out for them, especially a RB. We are still waiting for Williams to take the field. They took a chance on him despite his history of injuries and it has set them back drastically. I know at least the next 3 offensive lineman taken in that draft have been starters for their respective teams. The Bears defense was supposed to be the teams strong point and they were weak. Hester was all mixed up on special teams while the team experimented with him at WR. I do admit he has been better than I expected but it was at the expense of the return game and still don't think he can ever be anything but a number 2 receiver at best.I could easily be talked into keeping Lovie if he gets new coordinators. I really think they are not a fundamentally sound team. Have a receiver like Andre Johnson covered and actually allow a cornerback to get beat instead of making stupid excuses like "there was supposed to be help deep." Also make sure the backups know there assignments. Daniel Manning's being constantly out of position is inexcusable.

 

[The Kansas Comet]

I don't think he should be on the hot seat. However, he needs to fix that defense and avoid any more game management decisions like the Atlanta one or he could find himself there after next season.

 

[yoman]

I don't think he should be on the hot seat. However, he needs to fix that defense and avoid any more game management decisions like the Atlanta one or he could find himself there after next season.

I definitely think he should be on the hot seat next year as well. However, if he goes into the offseason and thinking the Bears are on the cusp and he doesn't need to change a thing with his coaching then I would fire him right now. I have no idea what is in store this offseason but the Bears have plenty of holes. (In no particular order)1) Wide Receiver - need a free agent/trade or top draft choice that is ready to start. Unfortunately this is usually hard to find2) Defensive Lineman - The system could partially be to blame but Olguleye and Harris didn't do anything except maybe 1 or 2 games this season. Alex Brown should be the only one that is safe and it is ironic that they tried to trade him because they wanted Mark Anderson to get more playing time before the 2007 season.3) Offensive Line - Why wasn't Williams on the field when healthy if he truly is the answer? They could use someone else and also look for the heir apparent to Olin Kreutz who looks like he is maybe a little above average at this point in his career.4) Safety - Resign Mike Brown and watch him get injured again? It seems year after year we rely on Brown and the moment he gets injured there is a significant dropoff in the defense. Brown is still a decent player but definitely is no longer the player he once was. 5) Backup RB. It seems most teams have multiple RBs that they bring in on different sets. Peterson and Jones were awful as backups to Forte which was part of the reason he was overworked this year.6) A veteran backup QB that can push Orton. The Grossman experiment is over and Caleb Hannie is not ready to be a quality backup.IMHO a team with this many glaring offseason needs is not even close to being a contender despite their 9-7 record. As a Bears homer I hope to be proven wrong but I am also a realist.

 

[whitem0nkey]

quite the opposite. i think most people didn't expect the bears to win 6 this year, so 9 is pretty impressive

You are correct, but the expectations changed and evolved as the season went on. after the first 3 weeks, people realized that this team was better than 6 wins.and just cause we had low expectations does not mean success.

 

[Statcruncher]

After reading the Mike Shanahan thread I decided that nobody is talking about Lovie Smith and the terrible job of coaching that he did this year. I think he has picked terrible coordinators and I really think letting Rivera go was a huge mistake.

I stopped reading here since this is where your credibility ended.

 

[Limp Ditka]

After reading the Mike Shanahan thread I decided that nobody is talking about Lovie Smith and the terrible job of coaching that he did this year. I think he has picked terrible coordinators and I really think letting Rivera go was a huge mistake.

I stopped reading here since this is where your credibility ended.

I wasn't happy about Rivera getting let go then and I'm still not happy about it today. And regardless of what you thought about his departure, Babich sure wasn't a better alternative.And if you weren't a believer in Rivera before, I think he went a long way to proving himself as a more than capable D Coach this year. Before the bye (week 9) SD had given up about 25 points a game. Rivera took over and that D gave up about a TD less per game.

 

[yoman]

After reading the Mike Shanahan thread I decided that nobody is talking about Lovie Smith and the terrible job of coaching that he did this year. I think he has picked terrible coordinators and I really think letting Rivera go was a huge mistake.

I stopped reading here since this is where your credibility ended.

I think you are the one who is nuts if you think replacing Rivera with Babbich was a good move. I guess I kind of missed out on what I was saying and that is that Rivera is much better than Babbich and you immediately weakened the defense by making this move. Obviously I am all for improving your coordinators when possible but I think Babbich is awful. You can disagree with that assessment if you want but that is my opinion and I know many people who share it including some of the former players that I listen to on the radio.

 

[clampino]

I think Lovie has done a good job with what he has had to work with. He hasn't really had any offensive power to put up a lot of points. Still needs a QB and some quality WR's.

 

[destro]

Quick synopsis: Lovie is just average, not terrible. He could be successful with the right personnel. Angelo's personnel decisions have been terrible. If Lovie played a hand in those decisions, he needs to go, as well.

I definitely feel underwhelmed by Lovie as a HC, but I'm not 100% sure he needs to be canned. At times I've felt like he was terrible, and needed to be fired ASAP, but I think the reality is closer to him being an average quality HC, with some strengths and weaknesses. If he has decent players, I think he can be successful, but he clearly has some issues. Game management is not his strong suit. He clearly has some problems with clock management late in games. His basic defensive philosophy (tampa 2, basically) is fine, but it seems like every year we've seen glaring examples of the bad scheming, players blowing assignments, and so on.

Some people blame Bob Babich. Firing Babich isn't really the answer though. We have no idea what really goes on, but the general feeling in Chicago is that Lovie is calling the shots on defense and Babich pretty much does what he's told. So, is it the quality of the players? I think that is part of the issue. Urlacher is clearly declining, for sure. Ogunleye seems to be as well, to some extent. We never really know what is going on with Harris, but it seems as though he's been battling some kind of knee injury forever, and has been dealing with off the field issues as well. Whatever the problem is, he hasn't been an impact player for about 2 years now. Tillman is fine, and maybe Graham is fine as a #2, but the safety issue desperately needs to be addressed. You cannot rely on Brown to be healthy, Steltz was a terrible pick and will never be a quality starter, and I don't want to see Danieal Manning on the field ever again. So, yeah, the players are part of the problem. Angelo has had SOME success drafting defensive players, so I suppose there is some hope for a turnaround.

Angelo has NOT, however, had success drafting for offense. The Chris Williams pick was puzzling, especially since they admitted they knew he had a neck injury. Why gamble on the spinal case when there are 3 other OL that are of the same pedigree? Why is he "healthy" but only coming in the game as an eligible third tackle? Why haven't the Bears been drafting OLs for years now? They had the oldest line in the league for years, and they practically ignored the position until this year, when they take the least safe pick possible. Every other OL went on to start the whole season and all seemed to do at least pretty well. Bizarre.

The Benson pick was BRUTAL, even on draft day. Obviously, there was no good reason to shove Thomas Jones out the door so that they could pay an unproven rookie completely covered in red flags way more money to do far less. The fact that he's having a moderate revival in Cincinnati does not change the fact that it was a terrible pick.

The WR picks have obviously been terrible. They drafted Earl Bennett in the third round this year, and he was apparently so bad that he could not get on the field as a wideout AT ALL this season. This is on a team with a bottom 5 collection of WR talent. How is that possible? Hester may end up being a decent #2 or slot guy, but they've bungled that situation as well, losing a GOAT kick returner. I can't even give them credit for the Forte pick, because apparently every single RB in this draft turned out to be at least decent or got injured before they had a shot. It was basically impossible to miss this year. Olsen was a solid pick, but he slipped so far that the Bears would have been literally ######ed not to select him.

Other personnel decisions have been equally baffling. On a team that needed safeties, rather than hold on to a promising young safety in Chris Harris, they opted to unload him and his tiny contract for... air. Of course, he absolutely dominated the Bears when the Panthers played them earlier this year. That made no sense at all.

Why have the Bears not drafted a QB for years? Everyone in the world knows the Bears have had issues at this position forever, and we're still rolling with Orton, Grossman, and UDFAs? Come on.

Also, Adam Archuleta - what were they thinking? After getting a ridiculously overpriced contract from the habitually overpaying Redskins, he was so bad that they benched him permanently before they were even halfway through the first season of his contract. The Bears then, naturally, scoop him up and offer him a still overpriced contract, but this time he stuck through more of the season, much to the chagrin of Bears fans. He was absolutely miserable, and it looks like they drafted his clone in Craig Steltz.

Also, while Ron Turner may be suffering, like Lovie and Babich, from poor personnel, he still needs to take some blame for some really bizarre playcalling. Can anyone give me a valid reason why he opted to give the ball to a guy off the street playing FB on 4th and 1 with the game on the line? Would it not seem more prudent to hand the ball to your stud RB, your best offensive player, when you need only one yard and everything is on the line? Why in god's name do they STILL call those lame "zero route" plays to Hester (and even Booker!), especially on 3rd and long? Haven't they picked up by now that they NEVER work?

Overall, echoing the synopsis above, the coaching staff is probably around average; They're not terrible, but they aren't exactly an inspiring staff, either. The personnel decisions from Angelo have been miserable though. I'm pretty much ready for him to go. It's possible that Lovie has had a considerable amount of influence in that area, and if so, he needs to go, as well. You simply have to make better personnel decisions than this team has been making for decades in order to win.

 

[Max Power]

Yeah, not even close. Lovie has been a solid coach from day one. Of course there is room for improvement, but are we seriously talking about Smith on the hot seat?

The guy lost two starting O linemen, his statistically best two WRs, QB and RB from last season.

I hope Mays somehow falls to Chicago in the draft and then this will be one of the teams to beat in the NFC.

 

[destro]

The guy lost two starting O linemen, his statistically best two WRs, QB and RB from last season.

The only good player they lost was Berrian. Berrian is a nice #2 WR, but the rest of these "losses" were closer to an addition by subtraction situation than what you're trying to imply.

I hope Mays somehow falls to Chicago in the draft and then this will be one of the teams to beat in the NFC.

It's going to take a lot more than Mays.

 

[Max Power]

The guy lost two starting O linemen, his statistically best two WRs, QB and RB from last season.

The only good player they lost was Berrian. Berrian is a nice #2 WR, but the rest of these "losses" were closer to an addition by subtraction situation than what you're trying to imply.

I hope Mays somehow falls to Chicago in the draft and then this will be one of the teams to beat in the NFC.

It's going to take a lot more than Mays.

I wish I had the stat handy, but I think its something along the lines of Lovie is the first coach to ever lose his best QB, RB and WR from the year before and be on the + side of .500 Maybe this also goes to show how much he did last season with such a "bad" team and the injury bug hitting hard

 

[yoman]

The guy lost two starting O linemen, his statistically best two WRs, QB and RB from last season.

The only good player they lost was Berrian. Berrian is a nice #2 WR, but the rest of these "losses" were closer to an addition by subtraction situation than what you're trying to imply.

I hope Mays somehow falls to Chicago in the draft and then this will be one of the teams to beat in the NFC.

It's going to take a lot more than Mays.

I wish I had the stat handy, but I think its something along the lines of Lovie is the first coach to ever lose his best QB, RB and WR from the year before and be on the + side of .500 Maybe this also goes to show how much he did last season with such a "bad" team and the injury bug hitting hard

So are you saying that losing Grossman and Benson was a bad thing?

 

[Max Power]

The guy lost two starting O linemen, his statistically best two WRs, QB and RB from last season.

The only good player they lost was Berrian. Berrian is a nice #2 WR, but the rest of these "losses" were closer to an addition by subtraction situation than what you're trying to imply.

I hope Mays somehow falls to Chicago in the draft and then this will be one of the teams to beat in the NFC.

It's going to take a lot more than Mays.

I wish I had the stat handy, but I think its something along the lines of Lovie is the first coach to ever lose his best QB, RB and WR from the year before and be on the + side of .500 Maybe this also goes to show how much he did last season with such a "bad" team and the injury bug hitting hard

So are you saying that losing Grossman and Benson was a bad thing?

it was actually Griese who I was refering to. And losing Benson does hurt when they had to bring in a less than 100% K. Jones to give Forte a break. Who knows, a healthy Benson might have won that Carolina Game for us.

 

[RBM]

Biggest problem with this team this year was the lack of a pass rush. Lovie's defense cannot function without a big time pass rush from the front 4. They had no chance this year against the pass because of it.

Also, not a fan of the whole speedy lightweights thing at DT. A physical running team will always beat that kind of defense.

On offense, the o-line surprised by being mediocre. They still have a ways to go in that dept. And obviously they need a big time wr.

Lovie is just an ok coach. I dont hate him but I wouldnt be upset if they went in a different direction. The personnel needs to improve though, in a big way.

 

[The Kansas Comet]

Biggest problem with this team this year was the lack of a pass rush. Lovie's defense cannot function without a big time pass rush from the front 4. They had no chance this year against the pass because of it.

Also, not a fan of the whole speedy lightweights thing at DT. A physical running team will always beat that kind of defense.

On offense, the o-line surprised by being mediocre. They still have a ways to go in that dept. And obviously they need a big time wr.

Lovie is just an ok coach. I dont hate him but I wouldnt be upset if they went in a different direction. The personnel needs to improve though, in a big way.

I agree about the personnel, but that's on Angelo, not Lovie. He should be on the hot seat more than Lovie should, in my opinion.As far as Lovie goes, he's done a good job making the Bears respectable again, and he's the best coach the Bears have had since Ditka. However, I agree with others in the thread who have questioned the guys he's hired as coordinators. The offense can (and needs to) get better, though it was a bit of a surprise this season. The defense was far less than acceptable for a Bear defense, and since Lovie is a defensive guy, he needs to figure that out and fix it.

 

[The Man with the Plan]

During the Bears-Texans game the sideline reporter was talking about how the Bears players were using cell-phones and the like to check the scores for some of the other games (Bucs-Raiders). That bothered me somewhat. Obviously their focus was not in the right place. That's the coach's fault for not instilling enough discipline. The defense is also regressing in recent seasons. A unit that was once one of the most feared in the league is a far way off from their previous glory. Smith being a defensive coach has to take some responsibility for that.

With all that being said the results speak for themselves. Lovie Smith has coached the team to winning seasons, division titles, and a Super Bowl appearance. So he's a success overall but I don't like the trend of the defense. For now I wouldn't put him on the hot seat. I'd put him on the lukewarm seat.

 

[el-gato-grande]

I'd love to see Cowher in there, but it isn't going to happen.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I would like to see Lovie go and have the Bears recycle **** Jauron. I loved the #### era. Of course I'm a Packer fan so take it for what it is worth.

 

[flapgreen]

Biggest problem with this team this year was the lack of a pass rush. Lovie's defense cannot function without a big time pass rush from the front 4. They had no chance this year against the pass because of it.

Also, not a fan of the whole speedy lightweights thing at DT. A physical running team will always beat that kind of defense.

On offense, the o-line surprised by being mediocre. They still have a ways to go in that dept. And obviously they need a big time wr.

Lovie is just an ok coach. I dont hate him but I wouldnt be upset if they went in a different direction. The personnel needs to improve though, in a big way.

I agree about the personnel, but that's on Angelo, not Lovie. He should be on the hot seat more than Lovie should, in my opinion.As far as Lovie goes, he's done a good job making the Bears respectable again, and he's the best coach the Bears have had since Ditka. However, I agree with others in the thread who have questioned the guys he's hired as coordinators. The offense can (and needs to) get better, though it was a bit of a surprise this season. The defense was far less than acceptable for a Bear defense, and since Lovie is a defensive guy, he needs to figure that out and fix it.

Agree with this. He's the best coach we have had in years, probably since Ditka. I have no desire to get rid of him, even though I've been unhappy with some of the decisions that have been made. He's done a very good job with the team and taken them to the Super Bowl, which was a feat in itself. As I showed in the thread I posted a couple of weeks ago, the Bears are near the top in wins in the NFC, since Lovie has taken over. No reason to have any knee jerk reactions. I think it's obvious we need to get rid of of Angelo and both coordinators, but that won't happen. I have a lot of respect for Lovie but he is loyal to a fault at times. I think this will probably lead to his downfall eventually.

Bottom line: If the Bears don't start attempting to make some changes in the personnel and signing some free agents, Lovie's time in Chicago may be limited, whether it's his fault or not. Sadly, they have never done this and I doubt they will start now. That's why they've sucked for the major part of 2 decades. Either the McCaskeys don't care or they're too dumb to do anything about this. I'm not sure about which one anymore. Changing coaches will solve nothing

 

[Bri]

During the Bears-Texans game the sideline reporter was talking about how the Bears players were using cell-phones and the like to check the scores for some of the other games (Bucs-Raiders). That bothered me somewhat. Obviously their focus was not in the right place. That's the coach's fault for not instilling enough discipline. The defense is also regressing in recent seasons. A unit that was once one of the most feared in the league is a far way off from their previous glory. Smith being a defensive coach has to take some responsibility for that.With all that being said the results speak for themselves. Lovie Smith has coached the team to winning seasons, division titles, and a Super Bowl appearance. So he's a success overall but I don't like the trend of the defense. For now I wouldn't put him on the hot seat. I'd put him on the lukewarm seat.

there's generally a scoreboard in the stadium so the cell is kinda odd, well I guess not that stadium. I agree, Lovie coaches well with what he's got. You could blame it on the GM but there's turnover and inflated salaries to "eat" some years. I think some downtime is inevitable.

 

[kevjones22]

I would like to see Lovie go and have the Bears recycle **** Jauron. I loved the #### era. Of course I'm a Packer fan so take it for what it is worth.

CRAZY ^

 

[Bears_Man2]

No way. No excuse for losing the Tampa & particularly the Atlanta game, but I really expected this to be a 5 win team this year.

I think this current team resembles many of the past. Good enough to be IN close games, just not good enough to consistently win those close ones. I think rougher times are ahead (declining defense & very suspect passing game all around) barring some great drafting in the very near future.

 

[yoman]

I think it's obvious we need to get rid of of Angelo and both coordinators, but that won't happen. I have a lot of respect for Lovie but he is loyal to a fault at times. I think this will probably lead to his downfall eventually.Bottom line: If the Bears don't start attempting to make some changes in the personnel and signing some free agents, Lovie's time in Chicago may be limited, whether it's his fault or not. Sadly, they have never done this and I doubt they will start now. That's why they've sucked for the major part of 2 decades. Either the McCaskeys don't care or they're too dumb to do anything about this. I'm not sure about which one anymore. Changing coaches will solve nothing

I think you might be dead on with this analysis. My main point in starting this thread is that I don't think Lovie should get a free pass anymore. I don't want him to be fired yet but I want him to be on notice. Lovie is too loyal to his coordinators and they are really bad. I don't want to compare Lovie to **** Jauron but he did the exact same thing during his tenure in Chicago. The thing that really scares me about Lovie is that he will not change his defense philosophies because it appears that other teams have learned how to make adjustments to his version of the cover 2. As someone mentioned in this thread this defense will never be successful without a good pass rush. One of the things I first heard from one of the analysts (I think it was Hampton) before I saw for myself is that the lineman are taught to cover zones. This causes the defensive lineman to turn sideways which gives the offensive lineman a huge edge especially since they are undersized and built around speed. Obviously I am still upset with yesterday's game and with all the games this season against the NFC South minus the Saints.Lastly saying Lovie is the best coach since Ditka to me is an indictment of an inept organization under the McCaskey regime.

 

[Jason Wood]

I personally think Lovie is among a group of capable NFL coaches. He's not an elite coach but I think he handles the media well, can work well with a hands on GM, keeps a steady eye on both sides of the ball but is willing to delegate to his assistants, and is not above making ballsy decisions that will be met with media and fan scrutiny. Would I put him on my short list to build a franchise from scratch? No, but there are plenty of teams I think could do worse than to have him on board.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

Why would anyone say that Lovie should stay, but his coordinators should go? Didn't Lovie hire the coordinators? Um, maybe that calls into question his judgment and ability to evaluate coaching talent?

That said, Angelo should be fired before Lovie. Angelo is beyond incompetent.

 

[TitusIII]

I believe Lovie's hands are tied when it comes to paying top dollar for coordinators...the McCaskey's are cheap...

 

[Max Power]

Why would anyone say that Lovie should stay, but his coordinators should go? Didn't Lovie hire the coordinators? Um, maybe that calls into question his judgment and ability to evaluate coaching talent?

That said, Angelo should be fired before Lovie. Angelo is beyond incompetent.

I've disliked Angelo for a long time, but beyond incompetent is a little much. He has had more than his fair share of busts, but he has fielded a respectable team. That said, yes Angelo does need to be shown the door.

 

[TitusIII]

Why would anyone say that Lovie should stay, but his coordinators should go? Didn't Lovie hire the coordinators? Um, maybe that calls into question his judgment and ability to evaluate coaching talent?

That said, Angelo should be fired before Lovie. Angelo is beyond incompetent.

I've disliked Angelo for a long time, but beyond incompetent is a little much. He has had more than his fair share of busts, but he has fielded a respectable team. That said, yes Angelo does need to be shown the door.

Agreed, he 'aint a bad GM, not a good one, but he is in the middle of the pack. If the Bears had a capable QB in '05-08, he'd probably be looked at as a hero, but that is partially his fault.

 

[Statcruncher]

After reading the Mike Shanahan thread I decided that nobody is talking about Lovie Smith and the terrible job of coaching that he did this year. I think he has picked terrible coordinators and I really think letting Rivera go was a huge mistake.

I stopped reading here since this is where your credibility ended.

I think you are the one who is nuts if you think replacing Rivera with Babbich was a good move. I guess I kind of missed out on what I was saying and that is that Rivera is much better than Babbich and you immediately weakened the defense by making this move. Obviously I am all for improving your coordinators when possible but I think Babbich is awful. You can disagree with that assessment if you want but that is my opinion and I know many people who share it including some of the former players that I listen to on the radio.

I never said Babbich was a great hire, I implied keeping Rivera would have been a mistake. Rivera has a whole bag o' nothing. Canning him was the right move, but obviously it was rendered null by choosing Babbich. In the 2 part scenario of "fire the bad guy and hire a good guy" they nailed the first half and bombed the second half. Unfortunately that's about par for the course as Chicago appears to have zero ability to accurately gauge playing or coaching talent.

 

[yoman]

After reading the Mike Shanahan thread I decided that nobody is talking about Lovie Smith and the terrible job of coaching that he did this year. I think he has picked terrible coordinators and I really think letting Rivera go was a huge mistake.

I stopped reading here since this is where your credibility ended.

I think you are the one who is nuts if you think replacing Rivera with Babbich was a good move. I guess I kind of missed out on what I was saying and that is that Rivera is much better than Babbich and you immediately weakened the defense by making this move. Obviously I am all for improving your coordinators when possible but I think Babbich is awful. You can disagree with that assessment if you want but that is my opinion and I know many people who share it including some of the former players that I listen to on the radio.

I never said Babbich was a great hire, I implied keeping Rivera would have been a mistake. Rivera has a whole bag o' nothing. Canning him was the right move, but obviously it was rendered null by choosing Babbich. In the 2 part scenario of "fire the bad guy and hire a good guy" they nailed the first half and bombed the second half. Unfortunately that's about par for the course as Chicago appears to have zero ability to accurately gauge playing or coaching talent.

Why do you think Rivera was so bad? The Superbowl? I think he had a different philosophy than Lovie but he tried to conform to the cover 2 which made him less aggressive than he wanted to be.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

Why would anyone say that Lovie should stay, but his coordinators should go? Didn't Lovie hire the coordinators? Um, maybe that calls into question his judgment and ability to evaluate coaching talent?

That said, Angelo should be fired before Lovie. Angelo is beyond incompetent.

I've disliked Angelo for a long time, but beyond incompetent is a little much. He has had more than his fair share of busts, but he has fielded a respectable team. That said, yes Angelo does need to be shown the door.

I respectfully disagree. The Ced Benson/Tom Jones situation coupled with his selection of Chris Williams.....and inability to identify offensive playmakers....well, draw your own conclusions. He has been terrible.

 

[Max Power]

Why would anyone say that Lovie should stay, but his coordinators should go? Didn't Lovie hire the coordinators? Um, maybe that calls into question his judgment and ability to evaluate coaching talent?

That said, Angelo should be fired before Lovie. Angelo is beyond incompetent.

I've disliked Angelo for a long time, but beyond incompetent is a little much. He has had more than his fair share of busts, but he has fielded a respectable team. That said, yes Angelo does need to be shown the door.

I respectfully disagree. The Ced Benson/Tom Jones situation coupled with his selection of Chris Williams.....and inability to identify offensive playmakers....well, draw your own conclusions. He has been terrible.

The Benson/Jones situation was a lose/lose for JA. Although I do agree, he made the wrong choice. Compounding his bad decision was that fact that Jones was traded along with a second round pick to move up in the second round Then He trades this pick back for a late 2nd and mid 3rd. Resulting in Dan Bazuin (ranked by most as a 4th-7th round guy) and either Okwo or Wolfe I forget (both guys with roughly 5th round grades) His offensive picks have been absolutly terrible aside from Olsen who was a no-brainer and now Forte. He has however been pretty good on the Defensive side of the ball. Now again granted if a GM can only draft one side of the ball, he has to go.

I do kind of feel like this will be JA's make or break year. If we fail in FA and reach for draft picks again, I'll amp up my "JA must go rants"

 

[RBM]

Why would anyone say that Lovie should stay, but his coordinators should go? Didn't Lovie hire the coordinators? Um, maybe that calls into question his judgment and ability to evaluate coaching talent?

That said, Angelo should be fired before Lovie. Angelo is beyond incompetent.

I've disliked Angelo for a long time, but beyond incompetent is a little much. He has had more than his fair share of busts, but he has fielded a respectable team. That said, yes Angelo does need to be shown the door.

I respectfully disagree. The Ced Benson/Tom Jones situation coupled with his selection of Chris Williams.....and inability to identify offensive playmakers....well, draw your own conclusions. He has been terrible.

I wouldnt mind having a receiving core of Berrian, Bradley and Gage right now. I realize Bradley had some injury problems but even when healthy, he barely got on the field. And what about Gage? Angelo shouldnt get the blame for those guys not being developed properly. And Id rather have Bobby Wade than Rashied Davis while we're at it.

 

[RBM]

After reading the Mike Shanahan thread I decided that nobody is talking about Lovie Smith and the terrible job of coaching that he did this year. I think he has picked terrible coordinators and I really think letting Rivera go was a huge mistake.

I stopped reading here since this is where your credibility ended.

I think you are the one who is nuts if you think replacing Rivera with Babbich was a good move. I guess I kind of missed out on what I was saying and that is that Rivera is much better than Babbich and you immediately weakened the defense by making this move. Obviously I am all for improving your coordinators when possible but I think Babbich is awful. You can disagree with that assessment if you want but that is my opinion and I know many people who share it including some of the former players that I listen to on the radio.

I never said Babbich was a great hire, I implied keeping Rivera would have been a mistake. Rivera has a whole bag o' nothing. Canning him was the right move, but obviously it was rendered null by choosing Babbich. In the 2 part scenario of "fire the bad guy and hire a good guy" they nailed the first half and bombed the second half. Unfortunately that's about par for the course as Chicago appears to have zero ability to accurately gauge playing or coaching talent.

I dont know, this D has been pretty horrid since Rivera left town. Was elite when he was here.I think Rivera is a legit D-coordinator in this league. Babich is an over-glorified position coach/yes man.

 

[The Tick]

Well at least someone has been canned, it looks like the DB's coach was removed today. Not quite enough, but it's a start. Hopefully the DL and WR's coaches are next in line, and then they can think about OC/DC.

I actually hope they don't fire Turner, I like most of his playcalling. Sometimes I think they break from the run too much, and sometimes I think he does some insane calls (Jason Davis on 3 and 1 at Minn), but overall, I think he calls a decent game with a good mix of agressive down the field plays and plays to just move the chains. I think a lot of the complaints are due to poor execution more then play calling.

 

[Max Power]

Why would anyone say that Lovie should stay, but his coordinators should go? Didn't Lovie hire the coordinators? Um, maybe that calls into question his judgment and ability to evaluate coaching talent?

That said, Angelo should be fired before Lovie. Angelo is beyond incompetent.

I've disliked Angelo for a long time, but beyond incompetent is a little much. He has had more than his fair share of busts, but he has fielded a respectable team. That said, yes Angelo does need to be shown the door.

I respectfully disagree. The Ced Benson/Tom Jones situation coupled with his selection of Chris Williams.....and inability to identify offensive playmakers....well, draw your own conclusions. He has been terrible.

I wouldnt mind having a receiving core of Berrian, Bradley and Gage right now. I realize Bradley had some injury problems but even when healthy, he barely got on the field. And what about Gage? Angelo shouldnt get the blame for those guys not being developed properly. And Id rather have Bobby Wade than Rashied Davis while we're at it.

At this point, yeah. But Bobby needed to go when he did.

 

[yoman]

After reading the Mike Shanahan thread I decided that nobody is talking about Lovie Smith and the terrible job of coaching that he did this year. I think he has picked terrible coordinators and I really think letting Rivera go was a huge mistake.

I stopped reading here since this is where your credibility ended.

I think you are the one who is nuts if you think replacing Rivera with Babbich was a good move. I guess I kind of missed out on what I was saying and that is that Rivera is much better than Babbich and you immediately weakened the defense by making this move. Obviously I am all for improving your coordinators when possible but I think Babbich is awful. You can disagree with that assessment if you want but that is my opinion and I know many people who share it including some of the former players that I listen to on the radio.

I never said Babbich was a great hire, I implied keeping Rivera would have been a mistake. Rivera has a whole bag o' nothing. Canning him was the right move, but obviously it was rendered null by choosing Babbich. In the 2 part scenario of "fire the bad guy and hire a good guy" they nailed the first half and bombed the second half. Unfortunately that's about par for the course as Chicago appears to have zero ability to accurately gauge playing or coaching talent.

I dont know, this D has been pretty horrid since Rivera left town. Was elite when he was here.I think Rivera is a legit D-coordinator in this league. Babich is an over-glorified position coach/yes man.

I still don't get why Statcruncher wrote that my credibility ended for stating that it was a huge mistake to let Rivera go. I actually think it's the opposite and his credibility ended since he can't back up his statement.

 

[RBM]

Why would anyone say that Lovie should stay, but his coordinators should go? Didn't Lovie hire the coordinators? Um, maybe that calls into question his judgment and ability to evaluate coaching talent?

That said, Angelo should be fired before Lovie. Angelo is beyond incompetent.

I've disliked Angelo for a long time, but beyond incompetent is a little much. He has had more than his fair share of busts, but he has fielded a respectable team. That said, yes Angelo does need to be shown the door.

I respectfully disagree. The Ced Benson/Tom Jones situation coupled with his selection of Chris Williams.....and inability to identify offensive playmakers....well, draw your own conclusions. He has been terrible.

I wouldnt mind having a receiving core of Berrian, Bradley and Gage right now. I realize Bradley had some injury problems but even when healthy, he barely got on the field. And what about Gage? Angelo shouldnt get the blame for those guys not being developed properly. And Id rather have Bobby Wade than Rashied Davis while we're at it.

At this point, yeah. But Bobby needed to go when he did.

Wade has proven he can play. Just like Gage and Bradley. Why werent these guys developed properly while with the Bears?

 

[jagbag]

After reading the Mike Shanahan thread I decided that nobody is talking about Lovie Smith and the terrible job of coaching that he did this year. I think he has picked terrible coordinators and I really think letting Rivera go was a huge mistake.

I stopped reading here since this is where your credibility ended.

I wasn't happy about Rivera getting let go then and I'm still not happy about it today. And regardless of what you thought about his departure, Babich sure wasn't a better alternative.And if you weren't a believer in Rivera before, I think he went a long way to proving himself as a more than capable D Coach this year. Before the bye (week 9) SD had given up about 25 points a game. Rivera took over and that D gave up about a TD less per game.

VERY Limp, You and I can agree after all.

 

[Max Power]

Why would anyone say that Lovie should stay, but his coordinators should go? Didn't Lovie hire the coordinators? Um, maybe that calls into question his judgment and ability to evaluate coaching talent?

That said, Angelo should be fired before Lovie. Angelo is beyond incompetent.

I've disliked Angelo for a long time, but beyond incompetent is a little much. He has had more than his fair share of busts, but he has fielded a respectable team. That said, yes Angelo does need to be shown the door.

I respectfully disagree. The Ced Benson/Tom Jones situation coupled with his selection of Chris Williams.....and inability to identify offensive playmakers....well, draw your own conclusions. He has been terrible.

I wouldnt mind having a receiving core of Berrian, Bradley and Gage right now. I realize Bradley had some injury problems but even when healthy, he barely got on the field. And what about Gage? Angelo shouldnt get the blame for those guys not being developed properly. And Id rather have Bobby Wade than Rashied Davis while we're at it.

At this point, yeah. But Bobby needed to go when he did.

Wade has proven he can play. Just like Gage and Bradley. Why werent these guys developed properly while with the Bears?

I wish I had an answer. Maybe Gage was just slow in development. Bradley always had the talent, but was most under-utilized and oft injuried. Bears did have plans to roll with him as the #1 WR for a while this past offseason

 

[yoman]

After reading the Mike Shanahan thread I decided that nobody is talking about Lovie Smith and the terrible job of coaching that he did this year. I think he has picked terrible coordinators and I really think letting Rivera go was a huge mistake.

I stopped reading here since this is where your credibility ended.

I think you are the one who is nuts if you think replacing Rivera with Babbich was a good move. I guess I kind of missed out on what I was saying and that is that Rivera is much better than Babbich and you immediately weakened the defense by making this move. Obviously I am all for improving your coordinators when possible but I think Babbich is awful. You can disagree with that assessment if you want but that is my opinion and I know many people who share it including some of the former players that I listen to on the radio.

I never said Babbich was a great hire, I implied keeping Rivera would have been a mistake. Rivera has a whole bag o' nothing. Canning him was the right move, but obviously it was rendered null by choosing Babbich. In the 2 part scenario of "fire the bad guy and hire a good guy" they nailed the first half and bombed the second half. Unfortunately that's about par for the course as Chicago appears to have zero ability to accurately gauge playing or coaching talent.

I dont know, this D has been pretty horrid since Rivera left town. Was elite when he was here.I think Rivera is a legit D-coordinator in this league. Babich is an over-glorified position coach/yes man.

I still don't get why Statcruncher wrote that my credibility ended for stating that it was a huge mistake to let Rivera go. I actually think it's the opposite and his credibility ended since he can't back up his statement.

After this I am going to let this go. I usually am more thick skinned about stupid comments but never had a comment questioning my credibility because I thought Rivera did a decent job when he was the defensive coordinator of the Bears. When San Diego turned to Rivera it was definitely desperation but he has really produced. I think Lovie actually kept Rivera down and he is going to be good from here on out. The D played great against the Colts yesterday.

 

[Statcruncher]

After reading the Mike Shanahan thread I decided that nobody is talking about Lovie Smith and the terrible job of coaching that he did this year. I think he has picked terrible coordinators and I really think letting Rivera go was a huge mistake.

I stopped reading here since this is where your credibility ended.

I think you are the one who is nuts if you think replacing Rivera with Babbich was a good move. I guess I kind of missed out on what I was saying and that is that Rivera is much better than Babbich and you immediately weakened the defense by making this move. Obviously I am all for improving your coordinators when possible but I think Babbich is awful. You can disagree with that assessment if you want but that is my opinion and I know many people who share it including some of the former players that I listen to on the radio.

I never said Babbich was a great hire, I implied keeping Rivera would have been a mistake. Rivera has a whole bag o' nothing. Canning him was the right move, but obviously it was rendered null by choosing Babbich. In the 2 part scenario of "fire the bad guy and hire a good guy" they nailed the first half and bombed the second half. Unfortunately that's about par for the course as Chicago appears to have zero ability to accurately gauge playing or coaching talent.

I dont know, this D has been pretty horrid since Rivera left town. Was elite when he was here.I think Rivera is a legit D-coordinator in this league. Babich is an over-glorified position coach/yes man.

I still don't get why Statcruncher wrote that my credibility ended for stating that it was a huge mistake to let Rivera go. I actually think it's the opposite and his credibility ended since he can't back up his statement.

After this I am going to let this go. I usually am more thick skinned about stupid comments but never had a comment questioning my credibility because I thought Rivera did a decent job when he was the defensive coordinator of the Bears. When San Diego turned to Rivera it was definitely desperation but he has really produced. I think Lovie actually kept Rivera down and he is going to be good from here on out. The D played great against the Colts yesterday.

First off the "credibility" comment was a throw-away attempt at humor, I never intended it to be an insult, sorry it came across that way. I don't know anyone on these boards well enough to honestly criticize or insult them. And as always, my posts are 99% opinion and gut feeling. Feel free to ignore me at will.When I see Ron Rivera I see someone who has been blessed with being in the right place at the right time. The Bears D was crushing during the 2001 season. In 2002 they took a huge step backwards en route to a 4-12 record (never had a "home game" as Soldier Field was being renovated). In 2003 they were back at Soldier Field and the defense was rounding back into form. Rivera's (and Lovie Smith's) first year in 2004 showed only minor defensive improvements. 2005 showed marked improvements and in 2006 they were dominant early and faded down the stretch.

During Rivera's tenure with Chicago (or since Buddy Ryan's departure actually) I have never seen the Bears D outcoach an opponent. I have seen great individual efforts by Urlacher, Brown, Briggs, etc. that have shut down opponents, but I haven't seen an opposing offense stymied by the Bear's formations, personnel, or coverages. To this uneducated viewer it appears the Bears D performs well because of talent, not because of coaching, preparation, or scheming advantages. The D also appears painful slow to adapt and overly conservative. Whether it's Lovie who hamstrung Ron or Ron who tanked we will never know. Fair or not when a defense underperforms I pin it on the defensive coordinator.

As for his stint with San Diego there is not really enough data to formulate a long term opinion but I don't see where he's working miracles. Let's not forget while Ron took over the defense in mid-season, this defense was elite in 2006 and 2007 and a coordinator change mid-season can easily jump start a team.

Bottom line, Rivera is not a horrible coach. He's obviously adequate but I highly doubt he will ever be able to wring more out of his players than what they already have. Had I known his replacement would be worse I would not have been eager to see Rivera go. However the Bears made the right call, in order to improve the defense Rivera had to go. Unfortunately, they selected someone who appears to be less capable than Ron.