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Lowell signed by Red Sox (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter wilked
- Start date
the moops
Footballguy
It's indeed a fair price.However, I'm not so sure Lowell is going to perform to anywhere near last years standards. Especially not in year 3 of this deal.
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
[icon]
Insoxicated
I sincerely doubt it (year 3 = last year). That said he's a gold glove caliber 3B and his swing is perfectly suited for Fenway. I don't think he'll be asked to be much more than he is now.. a guy with a solid swing that can put the ball off the monster and knock in runs. I do think he continues to perform above his career norms (due ot the park) but not quite up to last-year's numbers. Overall it's a good signing. Good to see Boston get him to lock down for only 3 years. Now lets plug some holes...
Jefferson the Caregiver
Rebel Without A Pause
Sounds good to me.
I don't think he will ever have a year like 2007 again and its going to be a bit downhill from here but this deal will never kill them.
I don't think he will ever have a year like 2007 again and its going to be a bit downhill from here but this deal will never kill them.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Thank.... God.
shadyridr
Footballguy
Big Blue Wrecking Crew
downsized
I am sure the platoon of Giambi/Phillips will be more productive.
shadyridr
Footballguy
So you think giving a 33 yr old player, with a swing that would be awful in Yankee Stadium, a 4 yr 60 mil deal to play out of position was the right move?I am sure the platoon of Giambi/Phillips will be more productive.
Workhorse
Footballguy
So you think giving a 33 yr old player, with a swing that would be awful in Yankee Stadium, a 4 yr 60 mil deal to play out of position was the right move?I am sure the platoon of Giambi/Phillips will be more productive.
Fact is, Lowell is far more valuable to the Red Sox than he would be to any other team, based on the role that he fills and how he's tailored his swing to fit his home park.
DropKick
Footballguy
Lowell is more valuable to the Sox. But I agree with Shady that he wasn't a great fit for NY and it would be a mistake (for NY) to overpay him and to commit to a long deal.Great move for Boston, though!So you think giving a 33 yr old player, with a swing that would be awful in Yankee Stadium, a 4 yr 60 mil deal to play out of position was the right move?I am sure the platoon of Giambi/Phillips will be more productive.Fact is, Lowell is far more valuable to the Red Sox than he would be to any other team, based on the role that he fills and how he's tailored his swing to fit his home park.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
I don't think it's great value as there's no chance he duplicates this past season, and he's no spring chicken.
But whatever, not like we have any spending limits.
But whatever, not like we have any spending limits.
shadyridr
Footballguy
At worst he'll hit 25 HRs and have 85 RBIs and play top notch defense over the next few years. So I dont see much downside.
DropKick
Footballguy
Value? It's all relative in a crazy AL East...3 years 37.5 mill (21, 120, .320 - 37 doubles)10 years 275-300 mill (54, 156, .314 - 31 doubles)
he only hit 21 HR this year and 20 HR the year before while playing in 154 and 153 games. how is 25 HR the worst he can do?
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
[icon]
Insoxicated
Attaboy Mike. he knows he's a key cog in a WS caliber squad.. and he'll be playing as one of the most beloved players on a team with one of the most rabid fan bases in the game... and he's in the perfect stadium for his swing. Seems like a no brainer to me for guys who are already set for life money-wise.
shadyridr
Footballguy
Is that all he hit this year? I did not know that
Please See Mine
Footballguy
Yes, that was reported, though Comcast Sportsnet asked Ruben Amaro that directly and he would only say that they were in contact with him.
Please See Mine
Footballguy
the moops
Footballguy
Apparently there was a 3-way phone conversation between Lowell, Gillick, and Manuel. They offered him 4 years, 50 million. They wanted an answer on the phone but he asked if he could think about it. He contacted the Sox, and they upped their offer from 3/36 to 3/37.5. Which matched the annual average, but was one less year.Seems that Lowell really wanted to stay in Boston as long as they were offering close to the same amount of money.It's nice to have guys like that...but I am still not comfortable paying what is likely a declining offensive/defensive player 12.5 million dollars a year. But, I guess it will be nice to see a team (nearly identical as last year) defend their world series victory.
What about this stat....World Series Rings....3 years 37.5 mill --> 210 years 275-300 mill --> 0Although I can't see A-Rod playing for the next 10 years with the Yanks and not getting a ring.DropKick said:Talk about cherry picking your stats...
RnR
Footballguy
Wow, that's a good stat.In that case, Brosius>Lowell>A-RodSomebody get Brosius a uni!What about this stat....World Series Rings....3 years 37.5 mill --> 210 years 275-300 mill --> 0Although I can't see A-Rod playing for the next 10 years with the Yanks and not getting a ring.DropKick said:
Domination
Footballguy
Over history it has been proven that the best player doesn't normally win the championship.
The last MVP to win a World Series that year...
NL 1988 Kirk Gibson
AL 1984 Willie Hernandez
Lowell was a good signing for the Sox, but to compare himn to AROD is absurd. It is like comparing a Lexus to a Kia and saying that the Kia is better because it gets better gas millage.
AROD will get his championship, and as much as I hate to say it, probably more than one. At which point he will be compared to the best of all time.
The last MVP to win a World Series that year...
NL 1988 Kirk Gibson
AL 1984 Willie Hernandez
Lowell was a good signing for the Sox, but to compare himn to AROD is absurd. It is like comparing a Lexus to a Kia and saying that the Kia is better because it gets better gas millage.
AROD will get his championship, and as much as I hate to say it, probably more than one. At which point he will be compared to the best of all time.
Alias
Footballguy
[icon] said:wilked said:
He should be able to make up the difference in Cialis ads.bialczabub
Lord of the Flies
3 years 37.5 mill (46.5 VORP, .767 road OPS)10 years 275-300 mill (96.6 VORP, led his league in home runs (54), RBIs (156), runs scored (143), total bases (376), slugging percentage (.645) and OPS (1.067). ) I think it's safe to say that there's a very good chance that in three year's time, A-Rod will have been responsible for twice as many wins as Lowell.DropKick said:
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Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Please See Mine said:shadyridr said:
DropKick
Footballguy
Cherry picking? Home-runs, RBIs, Average - are your 3 standard hitting statistics. The doubles are thrown in for extra base hits because the big difference is HRs. It's a simple comparison on the topic of value.Talk about cherry picking your stats...
What is your agenda, padre?
DropKick
Footballguy
It was a comparison of value relative to their contracts. I think Lowell is the better value. That matters for everyone outside of NY because there are limits on spending and, who knows, maybe this helps Boston solidify another position. What if 30 mill pays Lowell and a front-line pitcher?You need to consider duration of the contract too. How about injury? What will his numbers look like in 5 years? There are no guarantees and ten years is a looong commitment. But thanks for letting me know that ARod had a good season.
RnR
Footballguy
No agenda. They may be your 3 standard hitting statistics, but counting Lowell's 2007 as a normal output for him is pretty shortsighted. I won't even delve into how relevant the 3 statistics you chose are.Looking at their career per 162 numbers, here is what you are really comparing...Cherry picking? Home-runs, RBIs, Average - are your 3 standard hitting statistics. The doubles are thrown in for extra base hits because the big difference is HRs. It's a simple comparison on the topic of value.Talk about cherry picking your stats...
What is your agenda, padre?
Lowell: .280avg/.344obp/.468slg/89r/23hr/97rbi/3sb
A-Rod: .306avg/.389obp/.578slg/128r/44hr/128rbi/23sb
The foo
Footballguy
SolidNo agenda. They may be your 3 standard hitting statistics, but counting Lowell's 2007 as a normal output for him is pretty shortsighted. I won't even delve into how relevant the 3 statistics you chose are.Looking at their career per 162 numbers, here is what you are really comparing...Cherry picking? Home-runs, RBIs, Average - are your 3 standard hitting statistics. The doubles are thrown in for extra base hits because the big difference is HRs. It's a simple comparison on the topic of value.Talk about cherry picking your stats...
What is your agenda, padre?
Lowell: .280avg/.344obp/.468slg/89r/23hr/97rbi/3sb
A-Rod: .306avg/.389obp/.578slg/128r/44hr/128rbi/23sb
here
Big Blue Wrecking Crew
downsized
Citing years/dollars when you are talking about the Yankees is absurd, based upon their track record. Yes, I know, new regime, new rules. I'll believe that when I see it.If the stated Yankee goal is to win a championship each year, that means the focus is on 2008 (with an eye towards the future). So, in that context, do you think Lowell is more productive than Giambi/Phillips this year. Regarding being out of position, it is not like you are moving Piazza to first. Lowell's a third baseman. My guess is he could make the conversion (with work in offseason/spring training) relatively easy.Bottom line, as a Sox fan, I am happy to see Lowell come back. But the argument that the length of the deal would be catastrophic for the Yankees is somewhat circumspect.So you think giving a 33 yr old player, with a swing that would be awful in Yankee Stadium, a 4 yr 60 mil deal to play out of position was the right move?I am sure the platoon of Giambi/Phillips will be more productive.
shadyridr
Footballguy
In Yankee Stadium I cant say with certainty that Lowell would be more productive than Giambi this year. He probably would be but it wouldnt be worth the extra years and salary to find out. Besides, their lineup is deep enough without Lowell.Citing years/dollars when you are talking about the Yankees is absurd, based upon their track record. Yes, I know, new regime, new rules. I'll believe that when I see it.If the stated Yankee goal is to win a championship each year, that means the focus is on 2008 (with an eye towards the future). So, in that context, do you think Lowell is more productive than Giambi/Phillips this year. Regarding being out of position, it is not like you are moving Piazza to first. Lowell's a third baseman. My guess is he could make the conversion (with work in offseason/spring training) relatively easy.Bottom line, as a Sox fan, I am happy to see Lowell come back. But the argument that the length of the deal would be catastrophic for the Yankees is somewhat circumspect.So you think giving a 33 yr old player, with a swing that would be awful in Yankee Stadium, a 4 yr 60 mil deal to play out of position was the right move?I am sure the platoon of Giambi/Phillips will be more productive.
DropKick
Footballguy
Are home-runs, RBIs and batting average relevant or not? Perhaps you would rather compare their QB ratingNo agenda. They may be your 3 standard hitting statistics, but counting Lowell's 2007 as a normal output for him is pretty shortsighted. I won't even delve into how relevant the 3 statistics you chose are.Looking at their career per 162 numbers, here is what you are really comparing...
Lowell: .280avg/.344obp/.468slg/89r/23hr/97rbi/3sb
A-Rod: .306avg/.389obp/.578slg/128r/44hr/128rbi/23sb
And why is career average so relevant? Lowell has done much better since being in Boston, be that the ballpark geometry or the better line-up around him.You still seem stuck on this being a player to player comparison... It's not a question of value - performance to cost.
DropKick
Footballguy
Sure, if you have the reading comprehension of a second grader.SolidNo agenda. They may be your 3 standard hitting statistics, but counting Lowell's 2007 as a normal output for him is pretty shortsighted. I won't even delve into how relevant the 3 statistics you chose are.Looking at their career per 162 numbers, here is what you are really comparing...
Lowell: .280avg/.344obp/.468slg/89r/23hr/97rbi/3sb
A-Rod: .306avg/.389obp/.578slg/128r/44hr/128rbi/23sb
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
the sad part is that until he wins a ring people will think he is less deserving...I think Santana will have a lot to do with who wins as the Red Sox and yankees are very close. If the Mets get Santana they will be right there as well
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
Lowell OPS = .812ARod OPS = .967 when you adjust for SB's ARods OPS is around .990SolidNo agenda. They may be your 3 standard hitting statistics, but counting Lowell's 2007 as a normal output for him is pretty shortsighted. I won't even delve into how relevant the 3 statistics you chose are.Looking at their career per 162 numbers, here is what you are really comparing...Cherry picking? Home-runs, RBIs, Average - are your 3 standard hitting statistics. The doubles are thrown in for extra base hits because the big difference is HRs. It's a simple comparison on the topic of value.
What is your agenda, padre?
Lowell: .280avg/.344obp/.468slg/89r/23hr/97rbi/3sb
A-Rod: .306avg/.389obp/.578slg/128r/44hr/128rbi/23sb
here
As a comp this differential in OPS is larger than the difference between Coco Crisp and Manny this year.
Defensively one would expect them to be close, but last year Lowell played better.
As to the question of value. If you are the Yankees getting the best player at a position is extremely valuable. Now I will reserve making a judgment until I see the final contract with ARod, but if the Yankees gave ARod 10 years and at 275 mil + incentives for breaking the records, then the Yankees will have a bad contract at the end of the deal. FWIW, this is coming from someone who was one of the few people who said that there is NO way any team will give ARod over 30 mil a year and I was mocked for saying that back in September.
That being said the signing was good for Boston in the same way the Posada signing was good for the Yanks
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
BTW, 3 standard hitting stats should just be replaced with OPSLowell OPS = .812ARod OPS = .967 when you adjust for SB's ARods OPS is around .990SolidNo agenda. They may be your 3 standard hitting statistics, but counting Lowell's 2007 as a normal output for him is pretty shortsighted. I won't even delve into how relevant the 3 statistics you chose are.Looking at their career per 162 numbers, here is what you are really comparing...Cherry picking? Home-runs, RBIs, Average - are your 3 standard hitting statistics. The doubles are thrown in for extra base hits because the big difference is HRs. It's a simple comparison on the topic of value.
What is your agenda, padre?
Lowell: .280avg/.344obp/.468slg/89r/23hr/97rbi/3sb
A-Rod: .306avg/.389obp/.578slg/128r/44hr/128rbi/23sb
here
As a comp this differential in OPS is larger than the difference between Coco Crisp and Manny this year.
Defensively one would expect them to be close, but last year Lowell played better.
As to the question of value. If you are the Yankees getting the best player at a position is extremely valuable. Now I will reserve making a judgment until I see the final contract with ARod, but if the Yankees gave ARod 10 years and at 275 mil + incentives for breaking the records, then the Yankees will have a bad contract at the end of the deal. FWIW, this is coming from someone who was one of the few people who said that there is NO way any team will give ARod over 30 mil a year and I was mocked for saying that back in September.
That being said the signing was good for Boston in the same way the Posada signing was good for the Yanks
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I don't think anyone is arguing that Lowell is better than A-Rod. However, it gets a lot more debatable when you have to consider if A-Rod is 2 to 2.5 times better than Lowell as to who is more valuable.
For example, Lowell + Beckett are still less costly than A-Rod (with $5-8M still left over). So in this case, I would say the better value is Lowell and Beckett.
For example, Lowell + Beckett are still less costly than A-Rod (with $5-8M still left over). So in this case, I would say the better value is Lowell and Beckett.
Workhorse
Footballguy
The rub is that ARod's salary demands would financially hamstring any club other than the Yankees -- And would be a detriment to a non-Yankee club who wants to field a competitive team. Fact is that pretty much every team other than NY would prefer Lowell's production and salary to ARod's production and salary. And it's not really debatable.
