What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Luke Heimlich--College pitcher and child molester (1 Viewer)

General Malaise said:
From what I've read/heard, he didn't just commit one heinous act. Rather, he violated this little girl over a period of two years.   I think that alters my stance on second chances for this guy.  A stupid mistake/behavior done once is different than a deviant, evil crime perpertrated against a little girl over a long period of time.  
Click to expand...
I'm with you here but what do you to a 15 year old?  Lock him up forever?  Death penalty?   Can he be rehabbed?

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
I'm with you here but what do you to a 15 year old?  Lock him up forever?  Death penalty?   Can he be rehabbed?
Click to expand...
If they can be rehabbed can they live a normal life or are they destined for public housing and a monthly ssi check?  Something  doesn't seem right here 

 
RokNRole said:
Pedophilia qualifies as s disability now?
Click to expand...
Not saying that . If they can't live a normal life there is no choice but the government to take care of them. 

Listen Im all for giving them a hotshot with 1 conviction but as a compassionate society I'm not thinking that would fly

 
HellToupee said:
Not saying that . If they can't live a normal life there is no choice but the government to take care of them. 

Listen Im all for giving them a hotshot with 1 conviction but as a compassionate society I'm not thinking that would fly
Click to expand...
Prison

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
I'm with you here but what do you to a 15 year old?  Lock him up forever?  Death penalty?   Can he be rehabbed?
Click to expand...
I don't think it's unreasonable at all for knowledge of his offense to be left in the court of public opinion with it out in the open now. We know how that will turn out, that's justice. 

 
bananafish said:
About five years ago I found out a good friend of mine had been sexually abusing his grandson for years. We all found out. He's now in prison (there was a bunch of child porn on his computer, which is how they caught him), but the amount of devastation he caused, and continues to cause, his entire family (which are now estranged) cannot be overestimated.

I know he had been molested himself, by his uncle, when he was a child. I know this because he shared it with me and also explained how his molestation tainted his every waking moment with a cloud of sadness...like he could never really be happy, or be allowed to be happy, like Tim Robbin's character in Mystic River. One of the things that was hardest to reconcile was how this man, who was very respected with many friends, a loving family, great job, etc., could turn around and condemn his own flesh and blood, who by all appearances was the apple of his eye, to that same curse. To be honest to this day it has me shaking my head.

Trying to digest all this lead me to undertake some research into child molesters and how they tick and two things became readily apparent: 1) that sex offenders are highly likely to have been molested themselves and 2) that treatment and therapy are only marginally effective, if that. This puts us as a society in an awkward position of condeming people who are themselves victims but upon whom "second chances" are most often just opportunities to molest again.

This whole experience has led me to the somewhat intellectually incongruous opinion of feeling sympathy for child molesters while at the same time feeling that no amount of prison time or rehabilitation is enough to deter them from reoffending. Just like there's no way to "pray the gay away", I don't know that there's any way to change someone's sexual proclivities, even when that includes pedophilia. The only way I think they should be let back into society is via chemical castration. I don't see any other way.

My friend will most likely die in prison and his grandson (who is now 13) has gotten intensive therapy ever since this monstrous activity was discovered. The sad and most tragic part of this whole thing is that he is likely to become a molester himself. I really don't know how to digest this except to hope that therapy is more effective when the victim is young. What else can you do? Castrate him? I think not, but then it just seems like you're left waiting for he himself to start molesting. I don't have an answer.

Anyways, I think this pitcher never should have been let out of wherever he was held with an intact set of ####. And once that is done he should be allowed to live a "normal" life. I'll end this by saying that child molestation doesn't seem to be a subject we as a society have addressed very well at all and that "execute them", while an understandable stance, does an insufficient job of addressing the root of the problem.
Click to expand...
I agree that there is really no hope for sex offenders because whatever gets them off is essentially their "sexual orientation" (for lack of a better term) and no person can control their sexual desires. The only difference is the majority of us don't get off on criminal sexual acts.

Sounds ridiculous but the only real solution is to deport all of them to a remote island where they can live together  away from society.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
bananafish said:
About five years ago I found out a good friend of mine had been sexually abusing his grandson for years. We all found out. He's now in prison (there was a bunch of child porn on his computer, which is how they caught him), but the amount of devastation he caused, and continues to cause, his entire family (which are now estranged) cannot be overestimated.

I know he had been molested himself, by his uncle, when he was a child. I know this because he shared it with me and also explained how his molestation tainted his every waking moment with a cloud of sadness...like he could never really be happy, or be allowed to be happy, like Tim Robbin's character in Mystic River. One of the things that was hardest to reconcile was how this man, who was very respected with many friends, a loving family, great job, etc., could turn around and condemn his own flesh and blood, who by all appearances was the apple of his eye, to that same curse. To be honest to this day it has me shaking my head.

Trying to digest all this lead me to undertake some research into child molesters and how they tick and two things became readily apparent: 1) that sex offenders are highly likely to have been molested themselves and 2) that treatment and therapy are only marginally effective, if that. This puts us as a society in an awkward position of condeming people who are themselves victims but upon whom "second chances" are most often just opportunities to molest again.

This whole experience has led me to the somewhat intellectually incongruous opinion of feeling sympathy for child molesters while at the same time feeling that no amount of prison time or rehabilitation is enough to deter them from reoffending. Just like there's no way to "pray the gay away", I don't know that there's any way to change someone's sexual proclivities, even when that includes pedophilia. The only way I think they should be let back into society is via chemical castration. I don't see any other way.

My friend will most likely die in prison and his grandson (who is now 13) has gotten intensive therapy ever since this monstrous activity was discovered. The sad and most tragic part of this whole thing is that he is likely to become a molester himself. I really don't know how to digest this except to hope that therapy is more effective when the victim is young. What else can you do? Castrate him? I think not, but then it just seems like you're left waiting for he himself to start molesting. I don't have an answer.

Anyways, I think this pitcher never should have been let out of wherever he was held with an intact set of ####. And once that is done he should be allowed to live a "normal" life. I'll end this by saying that child molestation doesn't seem to be a subject we as a society have addressed very well at all and that "execute them", while an understandable stance, does an insufficient job of addressing the root of the problem.
Click to expand...
How does this make any sense? You say your self that majority of child molesters were molested themselves so how is it in their dna like sexual orientation (like being gay)?

 
shadyridr said:
How does this make any sense? You say your self that majority of child molesters were molested themselves so how is it in their dna like sexual orientation (like being gay)?
Click to expand...
I didn't read it like that.  I think he was saying once they've gone through something like that (being molested) it often times "sets" their sexual proclivities themselves with nothing short of castration reigning in that monster.

 
Uwe Blab said:
I didn't read it like that.  I think he was saying once they've gone through something like that (being molested) it often times "sets" their sexual proclivities themselves with nothing short of castration reigning in that monster.
Click to expand...
Ok I apologize if I read it wrong. Comparing it to homosexuality seems wrong though. 

 
shadyridr said:
Ok I apologize if I read it wrong. Comparing it to homosexuality seems wrong though. 
Click to expand...
I agree there. I think the argument is nature vs. nurture, where I think this is getting confused a bit. Nature being, and I know this is a debate point, but right or wrong I believe if someone is gay they are born that way vs. being something they choose. Nurture being what we're talking about with child predators, which is where it gets dicey. I think someone who's sexually abused as a child's mind or environment sexually is changed to normalize the trauma they experienced so that they feel normal or can reconcile it. Normalized to think that "someone did this to me, and since my mind is still developing, this is what people do (I will do) as they (I) develop sexually." We as a society would hope that intense therapy after the trauma would keep the victim from normalizing the event and acting on it in the future, but it's hit or miss is my guess depending on the person and unwiring this from their brain chemistry. Then it's down to the person. If they don't ever sexually abuse a minor, maybe the psychologists applying the therapy "unwound" this event from their sexual brain chemistry while developing, which is the hope. Otherwise, it was not successful and they act out within this new normal, which we as a society don't want to happen. I think the likelihood is higher therapy won't work vs. will, which would hang with the statistic that gets referenced that those who are abused have a higher likelihood to abuse in their lifetime. That's why it's so tragic when you hear about an abuse case when you think of the victim.

Again, I'm not a doctor, so my opinions are those of someone who isn't an expert on they psychology of minor sexual abuse trauma which I would think is the bucket most of us in the FFA would fall into and would be representative of someone sitting down and rationally thinking through the impact of abusers on their victims. I think I'm left with if the abused acts out and abuses another human, chemical castration for life after one conviction for abuse and time served away from society, as the therapy didn't work in their case, and they get that second chance with some assistance. If they act again after a chemical castration treatment plan, life in prison. That would imply hey, we know therapy didn't work to denormalize their trauma to them, but they deserve a second chance with the aid of chemical castration. If they abuse again they're that foregone and need to be removed from society to prevent this from happening to anyone else. It's a pretty horrid reality, but the impact of this abuse on victim's lives is that devastating. 

 
mquinnjr said:
I agree there. I think the argument is nature vs. nurture, where I think this is getting confused a bit. Nature being, and I know this is a debate point, but right or wrong I believe if someone is gay they are born that way vs. being something they choose. Nurture being what we're talking about with child predators, which is where it gets dicey. I think someone who's sexually abused as a child's mind or environment sexually is changed to normalize the trauma they experienced so that they feel normal or can reconcile it. Normalized to think that "someone did this to me, and since my mind is still developing, this is what people do (I will do) as they (I) develop sexually." We as a society would hope that intense therapy after the trauma would keep the victim from normalizing the event and acting on it in the future, but it's hit or miss is my guess depending on the person and unwiring this from their brain chemistry. Then it's down to the person. If they don't ever sexually abuse a minor, maybe the psychologists applying the therapy "unwound" this event from their sexual brain chemistry while developing, which is the hope. Otherwise, it was not successful and they act out within this new normal, which we as a society don't want to happen. I think the likelihood is higher therapy won't work vs. will, which would hang with the statistic that gets referenced that those who are abused have a higher likelihood to abuse in their lifetime. That's why it's so tragic when you hear about an abuse case when you think of the victim.

Again, I'm not a doctor, so my opinions are those of someone who isn't an expert on they psychology of minor sexual abuse trauma which I would think is the bucket most of us in the FFA would fall into and would be representative of someone sitting down and rationally thinking through the impact of abusers on their victims. I think I'm left with if the abused acts out and abuses another human, chemical castration for life after one conviction for abuse and time served away from society, as the therapy didn't work in their case, and they get that second chance with some assistance. If they act again after a chemical castration treatment plan, life in prison. That would imply hey, we know therapy didn't work to denormalize their trauma to them, but they deserve a second chance with the aid of chemical castration. If they abuse again they're that foregone and need to be removed from society to prevent this from happening to anyone else. It's a pretty horrid reality, but the impact of this abuse on victim's lives is that devastating. 
Click to expand...
Not reading all of that..

Gay (and straight) people are born that way.

Child molesters are made.

fin

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The more appropriate comparison is child molesters and rapists.  Violating somebody without consent and illegally.  

This guy will be a pariah.  This is not like a 9 year old playing doctor with a 6 year old.  This is a 15 year old with a 6 year old.  Family member at that.  And while I haven't seen it in writing, the claim is over a 2 year period.  I don't care how good he is..Fans will be in an uproar if he is drafted and he would be the leper of any locker room.  I can't see any situation where he plays.  Obviously the victim is the main story here.  I hope she gets the help she needs.  As for this guy, obviously he needs help too and if not in prison has the right to go on with his life.  But he'll pay the price with the registry and have to carve out a life in some way.  

I'm not saying he's necessarily a monster.  Raging hormones with teen boys can have them act out in cases like this.  He may not be a lifelong pedophile or even attracted to young girls now.  But teen hormones are dangerous.  It's why I never let my daughters alone with teen or young adult males when growing up.  Babysitting even if relative/family friend, etc.

 
What about the pitcher who was picked up by the Rangers? Didnt he nearly kill a guy? He went to jail.  And now he's still playing and making millions because he can throw a ball real hard. 

 
Judge Smails said:
The more appropriate comparison is child molesters and rapists.  Violating somebody without consent and illegally.  

This guy will be a pariah.  This is not like a 9 year old playing doctor with a 6 year old.  This is a 15 year old with a 6 year old.  Family member at that.  And while I haven't seen it in writing, the claim is over a 2 year period.  I don't care how good he is..Fans will be in an uproar if he is drafted and he would be the leper of any locker room.  I can't see any situation where he plays.  Obviously the victim is the main story here.  I hope she gets the help she needs.  As for this guy, obviously he needs help too and if not in prison has the right to go on with his life.  But he'll pay the price with the registry and have to carve out a life in some way.  

I'm not saying he's necessarily a monster.  Raging hormones with teen boys can have them act out in cases like this.  He may not be a lifelong pedophile or even attracted to young girls now.  But teen hormones are dangerous.  It's why I never let my daughters alone with teen or young adult males when growing up.  Babysitting even if relative/family friend, etc.
Click to expand...
Raging hormones, really?

 
Judge Smails said:
The more appropriate comparison is child molesters and rapists.  Violating somebody without consent and illegally.  

This guy will be a pariah.  This is not like a 9 year old playing doctor with a 6 year old.  This is a 15 year old with a 6 year old.  Family member at that.  And while I haven't seen it in writing, the claim is over a 2 year period.  I don't care how good he is..Fans will be in an uproar if he is drafted and he would be the leper of any locker room.  I can't see any situation where he plays.  Obviously the victim is the main story here.  I hope she gets the help she needs.  As for this guy, obviously he needs help too and if not in prison has the right to go on with his life.  But he'll pay the price with the registry and have to carve out a life in some way.  

I'm not saying he's necessarily a monster.  Raging hormones with teen boys can have them act out in cases like this.  He may not be a lifelong pedophile or even attracted to young girls now.  But teen hormones are dangerous.  It's why I never let my daughters alone with teen or young adult males when growing up.  Babysitting even if relative/family friend, etc.
Click to expand...
WTF

 
bananafish said:
Heilmlich is now taking a leave of absence. I doubt he pitches for the Beavers again.

I wonder where he goes in next weeks draft.
Click to expand...
No way he gets drafted unless it somehow comes out this is all mistaken identity or 100% proven false.  I don't think the next Perdro Martinez could overcome this type of accusation. 

 
It's not an "accusation". It's a fact. He admitted to it, was convicted of it, and has served his punishment for it.

Some team is going to draft him. It's just a matter of whether that team is willing to stomach the distraction and protests that will inevitably follow him for the rest of his career.

 
I think what's ultimately going to happen is that Heimlich's family is going to hire a P.R. firm to try to control and spin the story, and they'll get the victim's family to play along in exchange for a cut of his future major league earnings.

 
OrtonToOlsen said:
Yeah,  probably shouldn't have said that.  The idea that most offenders were once victims themselves is not really accepted today.
Click to expand...
I really wonder about these people.  I don't possess the goodness to have empathy for violent sexual deviants.  This kid, at 15, maybe, but I don't know the details at all.   I'm trying not to say "put him to sleep" like I do with most sex offenders. 

 
Judge Smails said:
The more appropriate comparison is child molesters and rapists.  Violating somebody without consent and illegally.  

This guy will be a pariah.  This is not like a 9 year old playing doctor with a 6 year old.  This is a 15 year old with a 6 year old.  Family member at that.  And while I haven't seen it in writing, the claim is over a 2 year period.  I don't care how good he is..Fans will be in an uproar if he is drafted and he would be the leper of any locker room.  I can't see any situation where he plays.  Obviously the victim is the main story here.  I hope she gets the help she needs.  As for this guy, obviously he needs help too and if not in prison has the right to go on with his life.  But he'll pay the price with the registry and have to carve out a life in some way.  

I'm not saying he's necessarily a monster.  Raging hormones with teen boys can have them act out in cases like this.  He may not be a lifelong pedophile or even attracted to young girls now.  But teen hormones are dangerous.  It's why I never let my daughters alone with teen or young adult males when growing up.  Babysitting even if relative/family friend, etc.
Click to expand...
for someone so young to do something so demented.....not sure hormones are to blame...however children ( and I believe 15 year olds are) deserve a chance to be rehabbed....this is beyond disgusting....and very hard to see him going anywhere now in baseball. What a disaster for this family. also could see everyones point of view of putting him out to pasture as well.....ugh...

 
The girl was 6 years old.  It's unimaginable.  That little girl has probably seen that press conference with that piece of #### coach explaining to all of us how great the guy is.  I wonder how that made her feel.  I wonder what her parents thought about that.  I guess he needs his ace though.

 
Speculation that rather than a routine background check, that someone from the girl's family tipped off The Oregonian. I can buy that.

 
I simply hate the hypocrisy of the world we have.  If they were done for year the school would have already booted him.  And some sins dont deserve absolution or forgiveness.  Get me off this planet. 

 
Abraham said:
I propose people not cut him some slack because he's the ticket to an ultimately meaningless sports accomplishment.  
Click to expand...
I don't give two flying fruitcakes about baseball so I never considered that. Frankly I would do very violent things to the guy if I was a prison lifer and ran across him in the cell block, but out here in society what else can we do with someone like this?

 
Abraham said:
I propose people not cut him some slack because he's the ticket to an ultimately meaningless sports accomplishment.  
Click to expand...
First, lest somebody think I'm defending this turd, I'm not.  Having said that - it works both ways - I get the impression that some folks are hung up on him playing baseball for OSU.  What if he was just a business major and not "famous" - are we cool with that?  What if he was a janitor at the school - now it's ok?  I guess my point is I'm not sure specifically what people want - pur him in prison?  Kill him?  Don't let him earn more than $25k a year?  I still don't know the specifics of the case and I don't want to know but somebody made the decision that this guy should not be in prison.

And for the record, if one of her family members tipped off the paper then good for them - I can't imagine what's she going through and as I said before I'd be right there in line to kill the guy if he did that to one of my girls. 

 
First, lest somebody think I'm defending this turd, I'm not. Having said that - it works both ways - I get the impression that some folks are hung up on him playing baseball for OSU. What if he was just a business major and not "famous" - are we cool with that? What if he was a janitor at the school - now it's ok? I guess my point is I'm not sure specifically what people want - pur him in prison? Kill him? Don't let him earn more than $25k a year? I still don't know the specifics of the case and I don't want to know but somebody made the decision that this guy should not be in prison.
Click to expand...
Oregon State is a public school. It should not exclude students solely because of a juvenile criminal conviction. I'm sure there are dozens of students on campus who are registered sex offenders. They should be allowed to live their lives.

However, the baseball team is not a democracy. The coach has a right to pick his players, and he has an obligation to pick players who represent the school's values. I'm not sure that coach Pat Casey did that in this situation.

I'm not saying that the coach should sign nothing but choirboys (look at a typical football team), but I do think that a prior rape conviction should be a dealbreaker in most instances.

(Now, I am assuming that Pat Casey knew about Heimlich's past. If he didn't know, then I'd say that Casey is probably doing the best that can be done under the circumstances. But I don't think Heimlich should ever play again for Oregon State.)

 
General Malaise said:
Undrafted thus far.  
Click to expand...
No way he gets drafted. On the off chance he was good enough to make the pro team, you couldn't actually play him. People arent going to come cheer for him, parents won't let their kids line up for an autograph, he won't get a bobblehead day. 

His playing days are done. 

 
"Prior to the revelation, Heimlich’s draft stock soared almost into the first round, as he was ranked the 43rd overall prospect by Baseball America.

Heimlich could still get selected in later rounds, as the draft continues with the third through 10th rounds Tuesday, and the 11th through 40 rounds on Wednesday. Teams would not be locked into a minimum signing bonus allocation should they draft Heimlich any time after the 10th round.

He led the top-ranked Beavers to a 52-4 record through the NCAA regionals, striking out 128 batters and posting an NCAA-best 0.76 ERA"

 
Joe Summer said:
Oregon State is a public school. It should not exclude students solely because of a juvenile criminal conviction. I'm sure there are dozens of students on campus who are registered sex offenders. They should be allowed to live their lives.

However, the baseball team is not a democracy. The coach has a right to pick his players, and he has an obligation to pick players who represent the school's values. I'm not sure that coach Pat Casey did that in this situation.

I'm not saying that the coach should sign nothing but choirboys (look at a typical football team), but I do think that a prior rape conviction should be a dealbreaker in most instances.

(Now, I am assuming that Pat Casey knew about Heimlich's past. If he didn't know, then I'd say that Casey is probably doing the best that can be done under the circumstances. But I don't think Heimlich should ever play again for Oregon State.)
Click to expand...
Does the coach have an obligation to pick players who represent the school's values?

I'm still torn how I feel about this.  I don't think a 15 year old should get the death penalty or life in jail.  And I don't think he should be prevented from having a normal life (going to school, getting a job, etc...).  Baseball is his job.  I don't understand why he would be blackballed from baseball by the public basically but somehow working at McDonalds, Walmart, or an Accounting firm as examples would be okay.  I feel like he should serve whatever penalty the court gives him, get counseling, and be allowed to live his life but hypocritically I admit if it were my daughter someone would be dead (him or me).  So full circle I guess it's easy to say no death penalty for me because it wasn't my daughter.  

If none of his teammates/friends knew about this before last week and he goes undrafted, I'm going to be slightly stunned if he doesn't off himself.  

 
bigmarc27 said:
No way he gets drafted. On the off chance he was good enough to make the pro team, you couldn't actually play him. People arent going to come cheer for him, parents won't let their kids line up for an autograph, he won't get a bobblehead day. 

His playing days are done. 
Click to expand...
I guarantee that despite talks of being removed from draft boards, every single team in the league has had a discussion about whether they would be willing to take him if he is still there with their last pick, and probably every one of them hopes someone else takes him first. A team that takes him will say something like "we thought using a 105th round pick was worth having a conversation with him to see how his life has changed and how regretful he is for the horrific behaviors in his past" etc while hoping some other team employs a registered sex offender before this kid makes it to the bigs. Just the nature of sports, as ####ed as it is. 

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

whoknew
MSU in the Crosshairs - Lawsuit Alleges MSU Encouraged Woman not to Report Rape by Basketball Players; Ohio State University Doctor Abused 177 Athlete
14 15 16
Replies
799
Views
36K
dhockster
dhockster
cstu
Woman Convicted of Distributing Child Pornography Gets Probation
Replies
1
Views
317
AAABatteries
AAABatteries
C
Stephen Collins - A child molester?
Replies
40
Views
2K
Joe Summer
J

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top