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Mad Men on AMC (3 Viewers)

As for whether Joan kept the baby, I thought that last conversation with Roger made the answer obvious: "Life goes on."
Surprised this wasn't as obvious to the rest of you.
:thumbup:
Granted I'm more or less an under thinker by nature when it comes to TV shows, so maybe that's why, but to me all the clues led to her having kept it, and if they were meant to suggest she didn't keep it they flew well over my head.
I mean it knew it was a crap-shoot when it came to whether or not Joan kept the baby. I don't think it was obvious either way until the showed her with the baby-bump in this last episode.
 
I guess in retrospect, the finale is better than I initially thought...it just really didn't pack some of the punch that the earlier part of the season did...but it sets up some interesting possibilities for season 5

 
I really liked how Don let his guard down and had great interaction with the kids. From the flopping on the bed between Sally and Bobby, throwing Bobby over his head in the pool and sitting down with the kids going over the Disneyland map, very touching.

I could see next season where the kids are more with him and Megan

 
I really liked how Don let his guard down and had great interaction with the kids. From the flopping on the bed between Sally and Bobby, throwing Bobby over his head in the pool and sitting down with the kids going over the Disneyland map, very touching.

I could see next season where the kids are more with him and Megan
This will be inevitable when Henry leaves Betty and she has a nervous breakdown.
 
Another great line from Roger last night.

"So Did ya get cancer?"

Great finale IMO. Although I'm not a big fan of the newly smitten, somewhat weakened Don Draper. The final scene where he's lying in bed with Megan staring out the window is a telling one. I too, think he was reflecting on those words from Faye. "I hope she knows you only like the beginnings of things".

 
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I really liked how Don let his guard down and had great interaction with the kids. From the flopping on the bed between Sally and Bobby, throwing Bobby over his head in the pool and sitting down with the kids going over the Disneyland map, very touching.

I could see next season where the kids are more with him and Megan
This will be inevitable when Henry leaves Betty and she has a nervous breakdown.
Betty to the psych ward
 
So why is Betty sad?

She was in therapy while with Don, so its not the divorce/ new marriage. Is it something she's had all her life but worked to hide it from Don, and now isn't working so hard to hide it from Henry? I don't think Sally is driving her over the edge, she isn't being unreasonable imo.

 
So why is Betty sad? She was in therapy while with Don, so its not the divorce/ new marriage. Is it something she's had all her life but worked to hide it from Don, and now isn't working so hard to hide it from Henry? I don't think Sally is driving her over the edge, she isn't being unreasonable imo.
Some of the scenes with her dad seemed to suggest she might have been abused as a kid or something. But it's probably just a larger commentary on how unsatisfying the life of suburban housewives were back then. Lots of them were depressed.
 
So why is Betty sad?

She was in therapy while with Don, so its not the divorce/ new marriage. Is it something she's had all her life but worked to hide it from Don, and now isn't working so hard to hide it from Henry? I don't think Sally is driving her over the edge, she isn't being unreasonable imo.
Some of the scenes with her dad seemed to suggest she might have been abused as a kid or something. But it's probably just a larger commentary on how unsatisfying the life of suburban housewives were back then. Lots of them were depressed.
I agree. Although I don't know if Betty was abused but she's made many references to how superficial her mother was. Maybe there just wasn't a whole lot of real love in her childhood.
 
Makes sense. One of my favorite things about this show is getting a detailed (and as far as I know, accurate) portrayal of how life was back then, and how much it has changed since.

I wonder if house wives are still generally unhappy?

 
So why is Betty sad?

She was in therapy while with Don, so its not the divorce/ new marriage. Is it something she's had all her life but worked to hide it from Don, and now isn't working so hard to hide it from Henry? I don't think Sally is driving her over the edge, she isn't being unreasonable imo.
Some of the scenes with her dad seemed to suggest she might have been abused as a kid or something. But it's probably just a larger commentary on how unsatisfying the life of suburban housewives were back then. Lots of them were depressed.
Virtually all the characters in Mad Men have unfulfilling lives.
 
Makes sense. One of my favorite things about this show is getting a detailed (and as far as I know, accurate) portrayal of how life was back then, and how much it has changed since.I wonder if house wives are still generally unhappy?
Not according to the videos I've seen on the internet featuring 'housewives'.
 
Don obviously didn't want the divorce, is there a chance he ends up going back to Betty?
No.
No chance. Don saw his new fiancee interacting with his children, and he realized this is how a woman is supposed to treat children. He's over Betty forever.
Especially when Sally spilled her strawberry shake. Don reacted how he was used to reacting with Betty around but Megan took it all in stride.Thought it was an ok finale but would have liked a little more. I was very psyched last season finale with the new firm coming together. Great season all around though.
 
I thought the season caught fire about 2/3 of the way through and then kind of petered out in the end. It was still a solid season, maybe the best season but I was hoping for a better finale.

I was wrong about Joan and the baby, that was a bit of a surprise to me. Good call to all of you who saw that coming.

It seems like that Faye could turn out to be a fatal attraction. I think she may have a little psycho in her and she knows Don's secret, that has to play out next season.

I didn't really buy this sudden love for Megan but I think in a way Don was choosing to be the fake Don Draper over **** Whitman. Megan still doesn't know anything about him really, same mistake he made with Betty.

 
It is the same mistake he made with Betty. He's going to re-live that cycle again, but it's what he wants. A wife, a mother to his kids, and the secret not in his face. He doesn't want to address it, and he would have had to with Faye.

Wasn't the best episode of the year; maybe not even in the top-10, but I think that's more of a statement to the quality of the season than the episode. Nothing was going to beat "The Suitcase" anyways, so no point in getting disappointed, imo.

ETA: Oh, and I bet Don re-hires Carla for his new home next season (when he has the kids). I don't think we'll see anything about his wedding; the season will just pick up with him in the house with Megan and the kids.

 
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'Mad Men' - 'Tomorrowland': I spill your milkshake!By Alan SepinwallMonday, Oct 18, 2010A review of the "Mad Men" season four finale coming up just as soon as I witness your nervous breakdown at Howard Johnson's..."I wanted a fresh start, okay? I'm entitled to that." -Betty"There is no fresh start! Lives carry on." -HenryDon Draper is the king of the fresh start, and of realizing after the fact how much your former life can linger. As **** Whitman, he took the real Don Draper's identity, and has reinvented himself time and again ever since, but always with what he did in Korea - and the possibility of being exposed - hanging over him.The new firm was supposed to be a fresh start, but of late it's been a disaster, with Cooper gone and the staff so reduced they might as well move back into that suite in the Pierre where they started.Betty's divorce and marriage to Henry were supposed to be new starts, but Betty can't change who she is, nor can she keep the rest of the world from seeing her as this insufferable overgrown child.Fresh starts are, as Henry says, probably a pipe dream. Yet as we end "Mad Men" season four, everyone's trying for yet another new beginning, whether it's Don impulsively proposing to Megan, Betty firing Carla as she prepares to move the kids to a new house, Joan keeping Roger's baby and claiming it as Greg's, Anna's niece Stephanie taking a break from college, or the firm landing its first new client since the Lucky Strike fiasco.And by the time we return to these characters in season five, I suspect many of them are going to find these fresh starts feeling like the stale lives they had before.I did a quick interview with Matthew Weiner (who co-wrote the finale with Jonathan Igla, and directed it) about Don's journey this season, and he talked about how this season gave Don the chance to finally live in the open and become some kind of fusion of Don Draper and **** Whitman, and how that freedom scared him into a lot of the mistakes he made over the year. In the finale, he's again trying to reconcile his two sides, following Dr. Faye's advice to "take your head out of the sand about the past."(*)(*) If only she had known what he would do with that advice, she'd have kept her trap shut.In taking Sally and Bobby to see Anna's bungalow before he sells it, he admits that **** is "my nickname sometimes." And much of his behavior throughout the episode, particularly around Megan, seems very un-Don-like. He's desperate to know if they'll spend more than the one night together and proposes with the real Don Draper's ring after only having it a few days (and after only really knowing her for a couple of months in "Mad Men" chronology). Not only does he not hesitate to tell the staff about the engagement - when in the past he always hated his co-workers knowing anything about him - he seems eager to do it.It's, quite frankly, unsettling as hell to see Don acting this way.Now, you can look at his behavior one of two ways. One is that he's doing what Weiner talked about, and what Dr. Faye suggested: finding a way to synthesize the #### and Don pieces of his personality. Or two, he's acting this way as a retreat from the pain of the last several episodes (Sally's visit, the North American near-miss, Lucky Strike), and having himself the same kind of midlife crisis he scorned when Roger married Jane. (And don't think Roger doesn't notice; check out his, "See, Don? This is the way to behave" line as he congratulates them.) As someone who's rooted for a long time for Don to make peace with his past and let the good parts of **** become a part of him again, I want to think it's the former, but fear it's the latter.He doesn't seem well-adjusted so much as he seems like Stepford Don. Look no further than the moment, after proposing to a stunned Megan, when he asks, "Did you ever think of the number of things that had to happen for me to get to know you?" Well, okay, let's think about that. Leaving aside things in the distant past like the Korea switcheroo or his encounter with Roger at the fur shop: Betty had to leave Don. Don then had to turn himself into the drunken caricature who slept with and then humiliated Allison. Joan had to punish Don by assigning him the elderly Miss Blankenship, who then had to die suddenly. Betty had to fire Carla, depriving the kids of the strongest maternal presence in their lives, and Don of a babysitter for the trip. For that matter, Anna had to be dead, too, or else Don might have just asked her to help out in California and dealt with the flights on his own. (And he wouldn't happen to have an engagement ring in his pocket that came from the man whose life he stole.) And Sally had to be so miserable at home that she would run away to New York, then literally run away from Don and crash into the floor so that Don would see that Megan's good with kids. Don looks at this chain of events as some evidence of romantic destiny, where others (including me) might see him in that moment being not unlike Tony Soprano, a narcissist viewing other people's suffering as necessary for his own personal growth.Now, it's easy to understand the appeal of Megan. She's beautiful and smart (she and Peggy were the only two who initially understood the Times ad) and good-hearted. She's great with the kids - it's not an accident that the scene right before Don's proposal is Megan responding to a Sally/Bobby fight in a way that's the opposite of how Betty (or, for that matter, Don) would have - and they in turn seem to really like her. (Note Sally's concern that Megan wouldn't be able to go on Mr. Toad's Wild Ride if she had to watch Gene.) And she adores the hell out of Don.She is, in other words, uncomplicated, and I can see how Don might need uncomplicated after the year he's had, even if that means casting aside Faye, who understands him so well and hasn't run away from the truth of who he was. Megan doesn't know about **** Whitman, and says she doesn't even care about his past because of who Don is today. She is fresh start personified, and that's what he wants more than the messiness of integrating past **** with present Don. Megan has to be intoxicating for him right now, even if things will likely go sour once the marriage and the rest of it are real. Faye is perceptive as ever when she bitterly says of Don's mystery fiancee, "I hope she knows you only like the beginnings of things."Late in the finale, Don gets to go back to the beginning of his previous marriage, as Betty stages an "accidental" meeting with him at the Ossining house.(**) She's going through her latest unsuccessful attempt at a clean slate. Divorcing Don and marrying Henry didn't make he feel any more fulfilled, and her bizarre, dysfunctional feelings about Glen have driven her out of the house, and driven her to fire Carla, who's been a far stronger maternal figure for the kids than Betty herself has. (And that's really what seals Carla's fate; had she not poked at Betty's feelings of maternal inadequacy, Betty would have still tantrum'ed, but she might have forgiven Carla.) Henry is recognizing just what a mess he married into, and she no longer has the excuse of Don's secrets and infidelity on which to blame her behavior.(***)(**) Note that Betty is carefully checking her makeup waiting to hear Don enter, at which point she picks up the box she allegedly forgot to pack up earlier.(***) Emily Nussbaum of New York Magazine published an essay the other day expressing disappointment over the show's treatment of Betty as a pure villain this year. As I've noted in the past, the problems the writers have with Betty is that she has no other arena in which to demonstrate her worth. Don can be a pretty wretched human being at times, as can Pete, but we get to see them at work, doing well. One of the few fully three-dimensional Betty episodes of the series was last year's Rome getaway, in which we got to see the kind of person Betty could be away from the house and kids she's never really wanted. But firing Carla, and then refusing to write her a recommendation letter? That's cold even by Betty Francis standards. "When did you decide that you're her mother?" How about when she realized what a neglectful, abusive one you were, Betty? How about that?Don was a problem, but clearly not the root cause she took him for when she kicked him out almost two years ago. She felt herself softening towards Don at Gene's birthday party, and there's a part of her that no doubt wishes she was still with him - even if only because, again, it was easier to justify her behavior when she was with him - and instead finds that he's made his own fresh start (thanks in part to her firing of Carla), and that for the moment he seems happier in his than she does in her slightly-less-fresh one. Still, as Betty asks, "Remember this place?" and they think back on what the house was like when they moved in - and what they were like - there's an easiness and warmth between them that we haven't seen in a long time. (The closest I can think of was when Betty gave him leftovers the night he thought they would be moving to London.)As for Joan, first I have to offer a mea culpa. I was wrong. Flat-out wrong. I assumed she had the abortion, in part because I couldn't see a reason for her to lie to Roger about it afterwards. But she did, indeed, have the Murtaugh "I'm getting too old for this" moment in the waiting room, and she's going to have Roger's baby and raise it as Greg's and hope, like so many other people stuck in struggling marriages, that the baby will give their relationship the fresh start it so desperately needs. But there will always be that incident on the floor of Don's old office, and Greg's general history of cluelessness and pigheadedness, and there's always going to be the threat of Roger blowing up her life with what he knows about the kid.And despite all our speculation for weeks about who might save the firm - many of us who saw that the finale was titled "Tomorrowland" assumed it would be Disney, but of course it turns out spoiler-phobe Weiner wasn't foolish enough to leave such a big clue like that - the finale shows that the agency's fresh start is a very small one. Peggy, through her friendship with Joyce, and then through her own blooming talents, lands the agency's first new client since Lucky Strike went away. It's a relatively small account, but all you need is one to break a streak. And between the huge amount of layoffs (that leave Joan pushing a mail cart and Roger apparently answering his own phone from his secretary's desk) and the collateral loan from the partners, we can see how the firm is going to survive, just hanging on as they add one new client (the American Cancer Society is no doubt next, and perhaps Roger can bag Dow Chemical through that) after another. Whenever the opening episode of season five takes place, I expect this agency to still exist, even if Bert Cooper doesn't come back and Pete becomes the C in the SCDP acronym.It's funny: last year's finale suggested that the new agency would be a fresh start for everyone: Roger and Bert would be revitalized, Don had finally stopped using Peggy as a pinata, Don finally showed some respect for Pete, etc. That's really not how it turned out. Bert was an office-less figurehead, Roger disinterested in anything but massaging (unsuccessfully, as it turned out) his one and only client. Don and Peggy's relationship actually got uglier than it had at various points in season three, and Pete continued to feel insulted by Don. Changing relationships isn't as easy as moving to a new house, or a new office. But change does happen. Don and Peggy finally had it out in "The Suitcase," and now they're genuinely different together (see the Weiner interview for more on that), even if Peggy understandably thinks he's nuts to be engaged to Megan. By picking up Pete's end of the loan, Don has put their relationship on as strong a footing as it'll likely ever have. Roger actually seems excited by the prospect of chasing down new clients.Maybe Megan really is what Don needs (and if she stays at the office, maybe she'll be more than an irritant to Peggy). Maybe being out of that house, with its memories good and bad, will help Betty finally move on from the wreckage of her first marriage. Maybe Greg will be a better dad than he's been a husband.Or maybe when we rejoin the story, however far down the calendar that is, everyone's problems are the same as they were going into this episode. And Betty will be thinking about moving again, just as Don suggests here.You can't always will a change into your life. Change happens when it happens. You can make a new start, but it won't necessarily be a fresh one.Some other thoughts:• So many good one-liners in this one: Joan's "Well, it's almost an honor," Roger's "Did you get Cancer?," Pete's "Are you two getting married?" and then Ken's "I hope you have all the happiness that Peggy and I had signing this account." But the one I laughed at the most - when Megan said her friend told her she could never be an actress because of her teeth may not have been intended as a joke. It's just that there have been so many comments here and elsewhere about the size of Jessica Pare's teeth that I couldn't help laughing at Weiner anticipating that reaction months ago and putting a reference to it into the script.• Don's faceplant on the hotel bed is among the more charming moments he's ever had with the kids, and a rare piece of physical comedy from Mr. Jon Hamm. You could also tell how much Hamm was enjoying himself as Don tossed Bobby into the deep end of the pool.• God, I loved that Peggy and Joan scene where they comisserated over the Megan news. If the show has a Will-They-Or-Won't-They? couple, it's those two. We haven't been waiting four seasons for them to fall in love, but simply for them to put aside their different philosophies and become friends. This could well be a one-time thing and - assuming Joan is still in the more-impressive-than-it-sounds role of Director of Agency Operations, and not staying home with the baby - they'll be awkward as always when we return. But just as I waited so long for the newfound respect Don had for Peggy post-"Suitcase," I would really appreciate the occasional "I know exactly what you're thinking" exchange between these two.• Ken's refusal to be like Pete and exploit his personal relationships for professional gain fits what we've known about Kenny and his haircut all along. Pete is determined to succeed, no matter what - which makes him a better choice to be head of accounts - where Ken has always viewed the job as just a job. So no Ray Wise riding to the firm's rescue, though I hope we'll see him again at some point in the future.• Harry, on the other hand, has been on quite the transformation since the first season. Then, he was the gentlest and most likable of the four chipmunks. Now, he's every bit the sleazy old man Joey took him for, even if Joey got the orientation wrong. I felt embarrassed for him as he so nakedly tried to pick up Joyce's model friend, then amused when he left a cloud of dust behind him when Peggy explained the model wouldn't be at the Topaz meeting.• File this under Probably Reading Way Too Much Into Things: "I Got You Babe" was a bit hit on the radio around the time of this episode, but I also wonder if perhaps it was used because it's now so associated with "Groundhog Day," a movie about a man who got a fresh start to life every single day, and took forever to realize what to do with that gift.• Again, I wonder: exactly how much does Stephanie (and her mother, for that matter, since she prepared the paperwork on the house) know about who our Don really is?• The head of Topaz, so interested in hearing and numbering pitches, was played by John Manfrelotti, who had a memorable recurring role on TNT's "Men of a Certain" age as Ray Romano's weird bookie.• When Betty asked if Don's fiancee was Bethany Van Nuys, Don almost looked for a moment like he'd forgotten who she was. The show definitely left Bethany (and Phoebe the nurse) far behind, and I wonder if we'll ever get to see the jilted Dr. Faye again. Hey, she'll be proven right on her prediction that Don would remarry within a year; she unfortunately won't be the one to benefit.• Another zig where we expected a zag: for the first time, there's no big historical event near the close of the season, as there were in seasons one (1960 election), two (Cuban Missile Crisis) and three (JFK assassination). Weiner could have worked in the New York blackout, or the Battle of Ia Drang or something else like that, but didn't shoehorn them in to a story he didn't feel needed it.So that's it for this season. There's been some discussion of where this one ranks among the four, and while I'll need some time to get perspective, at the moment I'd consider this one of the show's strongest years. Between the new office, Don being single, Don being a drunken mess, Betty's reduced role, Peggy being the one to do most of the classic Draper-style pitches, etc., this was a very different season for the show, but no less compelling. If anything, that off-kilter quality led to some of the show's best episodes ever, like "The Suitcase." "Mad Men" seasons often seem to need a handful of episodes to ramp up, but here all we really needed was the expository premiere, and we were off to the races after that.Great show. Great season. And, as always, it's been great fun discussing it here with you all (and I appreciate your patience with some of the technical bumps as we moved from the old blog). You guys are usually a lot smarter than me (see Joan's abortion for just one example), and I'm glad we can all gather together for 13 weeks a year to talk about this complicated, fascinating series.
 
Joan's husband is gonna know what's up when his kid winds up with a head full of shock white hair. Joan better stock up on Grecian Formula for her boy/girl.

 
You guys are nuts. That was a pretty damn good finale. Just like the last 3 finales they leave us not knowing what will happen between the end of this season and the beginning of the next...although we have a general idea.
The season overall was great. I thought the finale was decent, but not as riveting as last year. I guess I like the office stuff a lot and that didn't get a lot of attention in the episode last night. The whole firm is going under and Peggy and Cosgrove sign a tiny pantyhose company and now things seem OK?
I think it was more that they simply signed business - they broke the "nobody will sign with us..." ice, which I'm guessing other clients deem important.
This is a still huge, unforgivable hole IMO. I like where the season ended up with all the personal stuff- Don not quite being ready to be an adult was great, and I Got You Babe was classic on the heels of his comment about the sentimentality of teenager's music in 1965. Joan keeping the baby is a little too Desperate Housewives for me, but whatever.

But one of the main themes of this season was the firm in crisis. And now we don't get to see how it's resolved. A $250,000 account wouldn't save them after losing Lucky Strike, nor would the simple fact that they broke their "losing streak." And because they'll likely start the next season a year or so ahead like they always do, we won't ever get to see them rebuild. We won't get to see what happens with Don's tobacco gambit. Seems like a total letdown after they got us emotionally invested in the health of the firm. Really strange choice.

 
As far as rebuilding, isn't the writing on the wall with how it will go down? Don somewhat luckily is going to be in front of all the anti-tobacco stuff, this is definately going to go in his favor.

Also didn't Faye leave him with a potential client, that has yet to play out? Seems like that could be the potential for a furthur showdown between Faye and Don.

 
You guys are nuts. That was a pretty damn good finale. Just like the last 3 finales they leave us not knowing what will happen between the end of this season and the beginning of the next...although we have a general idea.
The season overall was great. I thought the finale was decent, but not as riveting as last year. I guess I like the office stuff a lot and that didn't get a lot of attention in the episode last night. The whole firm is going under and Peggy and Cosgrove sign a tiny pantyhose company and now things seem OK?
I think it was more that they simply signed business - they broke the "nobody will sign with us..." ice, which I'm guessing other clients deem important.
This is a still huge, unforgivable hole IMO. I like where the season ended up with all the personal stuff- Don not quite being ready to be an adult was great, and I Got You Babe was classic on the heels of his comment about the sentimentality of teenager's music in 1965. Joan keeping the baby is a little too Desperate Housewives for me, but whatever.

But one of the main themes of this season was the firm in crisis. And now we don't get to see how it's resolved. A $250,000 account wouldn't save them after losing Lucky Strike, nor would the simple fact that they broke their "losing streak." And because they'll likely start the next season a year or so ahead like they always do, we won't ever get to see them rebuild. We won't get to see what happens with Don's tobacco gambit. Seems like a total letdown after they got us emotionally invested in the health of the firm. Really strange choice.
I dunno, I don't think it was a strange choice. Look at it this way - if there is no firm, there is no show. We'll put up with "personal Don" for an episode or so, but without being "Ad Men", there's nothing there. So we all know the firm will be ok - I don't need to see them rebuild when I know it's going to happen anyway. Like the other poster just said, Don will get behind the whole anti-smoking thing that's starting, and will gain steam.
 
You guys are nuts. That was a pretty damn good finale. Just like the last 3 finales they leave us not knowing what will happen between the end of this season and the beginning of the next...although we have a general idea.
The season overall was great. I thought the finale was decent, but not as riveting as last year. I guess I like the office stuff a lot and that didn't get a lot of attention in the episode last night. The whole firm is going under and Peggy and Cosgrove sign a tiny pantyhose company and now things seem OK?
I think it was more that they simply signed business - they broke the "nobody will sign with us..." ice, which I'm guessing other clients deem important.
This is a still huge, unforgivable hole IMO. I like where the season ended up with all the personal stuff- Don not quite being ready to be an adult was great, and I Got You Babe was classic on the heels of his comment about the sentimentality of teenager's music in 1965. Joan keeping the baby is a little too Desperate Housewives for me, but whatever.

But one of the main themes of this season was the firm in crisis. And now we don't get to see how it's resolved. A $250,000 account wouldn't save them after losing Lucky Strike, nor would the simple fact that they broke their "losing streak." And because they'll likely start the next season a year or so ahead like they always do, we won't ever get to see them rebuild. We won't get to see what happens with Don's tobacco gambit. Seems like a total letdown after they got us emotionally invested in the health of the firm. Really strange choice.
The $250,000 account wouldn't save them, but it will allow them to go to the Dow guy on the cancer board saying we are signing new business.
 
You guys are nuts. That was a pretty damn good finale. Just like the last 3 finales they leave us not knowing what will happen between the end of this season and the beginning of the next...although we have a general idea.
The season overall was great. I thought the finale was decent, but not as riveting as last year. I guess I like the office stuff a lot and that didn't get a lot of attention in the episode last night. The whole firm is going under and Peggy and Cosgrove sign a tiny pantyhose company and now things seem OK?
I think it was more that they simply signed business - they broke the "nobody will sign with us..." ice, which I'm guessing other clients deem important.
This is a still huge, unforgivable hole IMO. I like where the season ended up with all the personal stuff- Don not quite being ready to be an adult was great, and I Got You Babe was classic on the heels of his comment about the sentimentality of teenager's music in 1965. Joan keeping the baby is a little too Desperate Housewives for me, but whatever.

But one of the main themes of this season was the firm in crisis. And now we don't get to see how it's resolved. A $250,000 account wouldn't save them after losing Lucky Strike, nor would the simple fact that they broke their "losing streak." And because they'll likely start the next season a year or so ahead like they always do, we won't ever get to see them rebuild. We won't get to see what happens with Don's tobacco gambit. Seems like a total letdown after they got us emotionally invested in the health of the firm. Really strange choice.
The $250,000 account wouldn't save them, but it will allow them to go to the Dow guy on the cancer board saying we are signing new business.
Sure. But that certainly doesn't mean that they automatically get Dow's business. It just makes them slightly more palatable.I understand they don't hold your hand through every plot development like a network show. But this was a major theme of the season, and now we don't get to see how it plays out most likely. Depends how they come back, I guess.

I will say this- the more I think about Don and the Megan, the more I like what they did with his character. And I'm loving the I Got You Babe- not only because of what Don said about immature sentimentality in music lyrics, but also because of the Groundhog Day reference. Possibly the most clever musical selection I've ever seen for a TV show.

 
But one of the main themes of this season was the firm in crisis. And now we don't get to see how it's resolved. A $250,000 account wouldn't save them after losing Lucky Strike, nor would the simple fact that they broke their "losing streak." And because they'll likely start the next season a year or so ahead like they always do, we won't ever get to see them rebuild. We won't get to see what happens with Don's tobacco gambit. Seems like a total letdown after they got us emotionally invested in the health of the firm. Really strange choice.
That's largely the point. The firm won't be saved (and shouldn't have expected to be saved) by having a fairy godfather account come in and put them back where they were. The firm is going to have to keep signing new accounts. Small accounts to start, probably. The firm is going to have to be leaner, but Peggy has broken the streak and, along with Don's ad, changed the narrative. Maybe they get Dow and maybe they don't, but they'll get new business. And if they manage to do that, Heinz comes in to play because they can see that SDCP is still around.
 
But one of the main themes of this season was the firm in crisis. And now we don't get to see how it's resolved. A $250,000 account wouldn't save them after losing Lucky Strike, nor would the simple fact that they broke their "losing streak." And because they'll likely start the next season a year or so ahead like they always do, we won't ever get to see them rebuild. We won't get to see what happens with Don's tobacco gambit. Seems like a total letdown after they got us emotionally invested in the health of the firm. Really strange choice.
That's largely the point. The firm won't be saved (and shouldn't have expected to be saved) by having a fairy godfather account come in and put them back where they were. The firm is going to have to keep signing new accounts. Small accounts to start, probably. The firm is going to have to be leaner, but Peggy has broken the streak and, along with Don's ad, changed the narrative. Maybe they get Dow and maybe they don't, but they'll get new business. And if they manage to do that, Heinz comes in to play because they can see that SDCP is still around.
I suppose it matters where (and when) we pick up next season. If the firm is healthy I'll feel cheated for some reason, like a major plot point was created in front of the camera but not resolved in front of the camera. If they're still lean and desperate, I'll probably be good with it.
 
But one of the main themes of this season was the firm in crisis. And now we don't get to see how it's resolved. A $250,000 account wouldn't save them after losing Lucky Strike, nor would the simple fact that they broke their "losing streak." And because they'll likely start the next season a year or so ahead like they always do, we won't ever get to see them rebuild. We won't get to see what happens with Don's tobacco gambit. Seems like a total letdown after they got us emotionally invested in the health of the firm. Really strange choice.
That's largely the point. The firm won't be saved (and shouldn't have expected to be saved) by having a fairy godfather account come in and put them back where they were. The firm is going to have to keep signing new accounts. Small accounts to start, probably. The firm is going to have to be leaner, but Peggy has broken the streak and, along with Don's ad, changed the narrative. Maybe they get Dow and maybe they don't, but they'll get new business. And if they manage to do that, Heinz comes in to play because they can see that SDCP is still around.
I suppose it matters where (and when) we pick up next season. If the firm is healthy I'll feel cheated for some reason, like a major plot point was created in front of the camera but not resolved in front of the camera. If they're still lean and desperate, I'll probably be good with it.
I kinda felt that way to start this season. I was hoping to see them bring the new firm from the hotel room to where they were to start the season.
 
TobiasFunke said:
Corn Man said:
TobiasFunke said:
But one of the main themes of this season was the firm in crisis. And now we don't get to see how it's resolved. A $250,000 account wouldn't save them after losing Lucky Strike, nor would the simple fact that they broke their "losing streak." And because they'll likely start the next season a year or so ahead like they always do, we won't ever get to see them rebuild. We won't get to see what happens with Don's tobacco gambit. Seems like a total letdown after they got us emotionally invested in the health of the firm. Really strange choice.
That's largely the point. The firm won't be saved (and shouldn't have expected to be saved) by having a fairy godfather account come in and put them back where they were. The firm is going to have to keep signing new accounts. Small accounts to start, probably. The firm is going to have to be leaner, but Peggy has broken the streak and, along with Don's ad, changed the narrative. Maybe they get Dow and maybe they don't, but they'll get new business. And if they manage to do that, Heinz comes in to play because they can see that SDCP is still around.
I suppose it matters where (and when) we pick up next season. If the firm is healthy I'll feel cheated for some reason, like a major plot point was created in front of the camera but not resolved in front of the camera. If they're still lean and desperate, I'll probably be good with it.
Kind of like how last season they were working out of a hotel room and this season out of the Time-Life Building? Or how Paul Kinsey pulled a DB Cooper this year? This is what the show does. I wouldn't feel cheated.
 
TobiasFunke said:
Corn Man said:
TobiasFunke said:
But one of the main themes of this season was the firm in crisis. And now we don't get to see how it's resolved. A $250,000 account wouldn't save them after losing Lucky Strike, nor would the simple fact that they broke their "losing streak." And because they'll likely start the next season a year or so ahead like they always do, we won't ever get to see them rebuild. We won't get to see what happens with Don's tobacco gambit. Seems like a total letdown after they got us emotionally invested in the health of the firm. Really strange choice.
That's largely the point. The firm won't be saved (and shouldn't have expected to be saved) by having a fairy godfather account come in and put them back where they were. The firm is going to have to keep signing new accounts. Small accounts to start, probably. The firm is going to have to be leaner, but Peggy has broken the streak and, along with Don's ad, changed the narrative. Maybe they get Dow and maybe they don't, but they'll get new business. And if they manage to do that, Heinz comes in to play because they can see that SDCP is still around.
I suppose it matters where (and when) we pick up next season. If the firm is healthy I'll feel cheated for some reason, like a major plot point was created in front of the camera but not resolved in front of the camera. If they're still lean and desperate, I'll probably be good with it.
Kind of like how last season they were working out of a hotel room and this season out of the Time-Life Building? Or how Paul Kinsey pulled a DB Cooper this year? This is what the show does. I wouldn't feel cheated.
Those things made complete sense the way the previous season left off- in fact, one might even say there were inevitable. They'd already discussed personnel coming with them to the new firm, and I believe they did not include Kinsey's name. And he appeared in the final scene- he was left behind. His narrative was completed. And I also recall that they had already locked down some clients, including Lucky Strike- Lane told them they had to to make it work, and then they made Pete a partner based on getting a ton of new business for the new firm. So you knew they'd have enough business to get up and running and to get office space- that's not exactly a huge leap, or really even a leap at all, based on where the story left off.Going from the brink of bankruptcy to being healthy and thriving is completely different, especially if being on the brink of bankruptcy is one of the season's main narratives. It's not that it's impossible or even improbable ot that we don't have an idea how it could happen based on the finale. It's that the narrative created a problem and potentially won't resolve it- depends where things are when we come back, but I don't see how they can jump ahead any significant length of time and still resolve it. Totally different scenario IMO.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
TobiasFunke said:
Corn Man said:
TobiasFunke said:
But one of the main themes of this season was the firm in crisis. And now we don't get to see how it's resolved. A $250,000 account wouldn't save them after losing Lucky Strike, nor would the simple fact that they broke their "losing streak." And because they'll likely start the next season a year or so ahead like they always do, we won't ever get to see them rebuild. We won't get to see what happens with Don's tobacco gambit. Seems like a total letdown after they got us emotionally invested in the health of the firm. Really strange choice.
That's largely the point. The firm won't be saved (and shouldn't have expected to be saved) by having a fairy godfather account come in and put them back where they were. The firm is going to have to keep signing new accounts. Small accounts to start, probably. The firm is going to have to be leaner, but Peggy has broken the streak and, along with Don's ad, changed the narrative. Maybe they get Dow and maybe they don't, but they'll get new business. And if they manage to do that, Heinz comes in to play because they can see that SDCP is still around.
I suppose it matters where (and when) we pick up next season. If the firm is healthy I'll feel cheated for some reason, like a major plot point was created in front of the camera but not resolved in front of the camera. If they're still lean and desperate, I'll probably be good with it.
Kind of like how last season they were working out of a hotel room and this season out of the Time-Life Building? Or how Paul Kinsey pulled a DB Cooper this year? This is what the show does. I wouldn't feel cheated.
Those things made complete sense the way the previous season left off- in fact, one might even say there were inevitable. They'd already discussed personnel coming with them to the new firm, and I believe they did not include Kinsey's name. And he appeared in the final scene- he was left behind. His narrative was completed. And I also recall that they had already locked down some clients, including Lucky Strike- Lane told them they had to to make it work, and then they made Pete a partner based on getting a ton of new business for the new firm. So you knew they'd have enough business to get up and running and to get office space- that's not exactly a huge leap, or really even a leap at all, based on where the story left off.Going from the brink of bankruptcy to being healthy and thriving is completely different, especially if being on the brink of bankruptcy is one of the season's main narratives. It's not that it's impossible or even improbable ot that we don't have an idea how it could happen based on the finale. It's that the narrative created a problem and potentially won't resolve it- depends where things are when we come back, but I don't see how they can jump ahead any significant length of time and still resolve it. Totally different scenario IMO.
:shrug: I suppose that this finale left more things 'open' than the others. More 'cliff-hanger' like.
 
jamny said:
jdoggydogg said:
Corn Man said:
TenTimes said:
Don obviously didn't want the divorce, is there a chance he ends up going back to Betty?
No.
No chance. Don saw his new fiancee interacting with his children, and he realized this is how a woman is supposed to treat children. He's over Betty forever.
Especially when Sally spilled her strawberry shake. Don reacted how he was used to reacting with Betty around but Megan took it all in stride.
Exactly. Don remembers Betty freaking out about these things, but Megan reacted how a normal, loving mother would react.
 
:shrug: I suppose that this finale left more things 'open' than the others. More 'cliff-hanger' like.
As I said, it just felt really weird and I didn't like that aspect of the finale, but I'll reserve final judgment until I see how they open next season. I still love what they did with Don and many of the other characters in this finale, and I still think it's the best season the show has had, and that's saying something.
 
Dont watch the show but my sportsbook has these Prop bets

ENTERTAINMENT

ENTERTAINMENT - Oct 24

MAD MEN SEASON 5

8:00 AM

JOAN CONFESS TO GREGG IT’S NOT HIS BABY

22603 YES EV

22604 NO -130

8:00 AM

MEGAN WILL BE PREGNANT WITH DON’S BABY

22605 YES -130

22606 NO EV

8:00 AM

SCDP WILL WORK FOR BIG TOBACCO NEXT SEASON

22607 YES +120

22608 NO -150

8:00 AM

SALLY WILL HAVE HER FIRST KISS

22609 YES -115

22610 NO -115

8:00 AM

BETTY HAS AN AFFAIR

22611 YES -120

22612 NO -110

DON WILL HOOK UP WITH A NEW WOMAN IN THE FIRST EPISODE OF SEASON 5

8:00 AM

DON WILL HOOK UP WITH A NEW WOMAN

22613 YES -115

22614 NO -115

 
What a dissappointing night of television. Boardwalk Empire becomes unwatcheable and Mad Men season finale lays an egg.

Seemed like the whole point of Don getting divorced was to get him single and womanizing. Megan's friend was right with teeth like that she shouldn't be an actress.

Also how do they not drop a bomb on Joan's husband at the end? Give us something. Jeez.
I don't want you to take this personally, but I think you are a complete idiot.
 
Just finished the 2nd to last ep.

What a great scene going from Draper writing the "Why I quit Tobacco" letter to Henry reading it in the Times. Definitely didn't see that coming.

What was it about Midge's painting that set him off in that direction...I thought he was seeing her addiction (and pain) in it, and decided to literally quit smoking.

Should have known it was going to be an idea instead.

 
pantherclub said:
Horrible final episode.
Much closer to mediocre than horrible and since the season was very good for the most part, I will give a few misses here and there a pass.If anything, this gives them some room to improve for next year and if that we can expect a very good season. You don't want to raise the bar too high and then not duplicate, series are much better if they can improve as they go on.
 
pantherclub said:
Horrible final episode.
These kinds of comments are interesting to me. Reminds me of Iron Man 1 vs. Iron Man 2. I was fascinated by people that loved the first movie and didn't like the sequel. Were they expecting exactly the same movie? Or were they hoping for a radical departure?To finish the analogy, what were you hoping for with this final episode? I think the final episode was almost exactly as good as every episode this season. This season of Mad Men may prove to be my favorite when it's all said and done. So I am curious when a fan of the show is this disappointed.
 
pantherclub said:
Horrible final episode.
I didn't think it was horrible, but after some of the fantastic episodes earlier in the season, it was a bit of a let down. But still, better than 95% of the rest of TV land and can't wait for Season 5
 
Mad Men Season 5 Speculation

Will SCDP still be going, still struggling? Or will they have recovered? Will Pete Campbell replace Burt Cooper as the C?

Will Joan still be pregnant and working at the office? Will she have had the baby?

How about Don and Megan. Still engaged? Already Married? Will Don have already cheated on her?

And how about Betty? Still married to Henry? Or divorced and now in a mental institution?

I think Pete will replace Cooper and the firm will still be struggling

Joan will have delivered the baby and at home

Don and Megan will be married and while he will not have cheated on her, his eye will start to wander

Not sure about Betty. I can see her finally realizing she is not happy, divorce Henry but then break down



*** SPOILER ALERT! Click this link to display the potential spoiler text in this box. ***");document.close();
 
Mad Men Season 5 Speculation

Will SCDP still be going, still struggling? Or will they have recovered? Will Pete Campbell replace Burt Cooper as the C?

Will Joan still be pregnant and working at the office? Will she have had the baby?

How about Don and Megan. Still engaged? Already Married? Will Don have already cheated on her?

And how about Betty? Still married to Henry? Or divorced and now in a mental institution?

I think Pete will replace Cooper and the firm will still be struggling

Joan will have delivered the baby and at home

Don and Megan will be married and while he will not have cheated on her, his eye will start to wander

Not sure about Betty. I can see her finally realizing she is not happy, divorce Henry but then break down
*** SPOILER ALERT! Click this link to display the potential spoiler text in this box. ***");document.close();
 

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