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Mad Men on AMC (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Red Apples
- Start date
badmojo1006
Footballguy
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Marvin
Footballguy
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/05/Lot49.jpeg/200px-Lot49.jpeg. "The Crying of Lot 49". One of the best books to come out of the mid-60s and a personal favorite.
In the book there's a 4-man rock band called The Paranoids. They're American but sing with British accents and have shaggy hair.
Stan makes a comment about "There's a million bands that sound like that" meaning the Beatles.
In the book there's a 4-man rock band called The Paranoids. They're American but sing with British accents and have shaggy hair.
Stan makes a comment about "There's a million bands that sound like that" meaning the Beatles.
Belding was the Chef.
Premier
Footballguy
Cool whip?
Marvin
Footballguy
badmojo1006
Footballguy
Ahhh OK, was thinking of Howard. My bad
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
No worries. Tanner will post a gif of it in a jiffy.
Premier
Footballguy
They're sure building to it, but I would be surprised.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
I want BELDING, dammit!
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
He ate a million pounds of Cool Whip to get into character.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
I just checked the Twitter accounts of Kelly, Jessie, Screech, Zack, and A.C. Not one of them sent a shout-out to Haskins.
(Sadly, I'm completely serious.)
(Sadly, I'm completely serious.)
Apple Jack
Footballguy
Another fantastic episode. Pete continues to lose his grip. And when Megan handed don revolver I learned to love her even more. She's a brilliant character for this show, and probably the most important at the moment. She is the most fluid of them all. And don is further feeling rejected and he can't tell when she's putting on a show. She just took a natural gift for what don loves and what he worked for ages to become good at and threw it away. It's the introduction of women doing what they want and being willing to take or leave the rest.
And props to wiener for shelling out for tomorrow never knows. That ruled.
And props to wiener for shelling out for tomorrow never knows. That ruled.
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Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Well, I'm glad somebody liked it. Just left like nothing happened. Pete's affair did nothing for me.jdoggydogg will probably stop watching forever after this effort.
Marvin
Footballguy
How so?
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Early in "Lady Lazarus," Don complains to Megan that he has no idea what's happening in pop culture anymore. She reassures him that "No one can keep up; it's always changing." Culturally, it feels like we've seen more change in this season than the four previous, and that rate is only accelerating. The Beatles are starting to move into psychedelia, as evidenced by "Tomorrow Never Knows," the final track on "Revolver" that Don listens to(*) at Megan's urging. In 1960, no one had the first clue that Sal was gay despite his obvious affectations; now, it's understood and accepted (and a source of jokes by Stan and the others) that one of their new clients from Chevalier Blanc plays for the other team. NASA photographs have given the people of Earth their first glimpse of what their planet looks like from space: beautiful and yet fragile and alone in the vast blackness of space. The world is changing constantly, up to and including everyone's image of it.
(*) I had to laugh when I realized Don was actually going to play an actual Beatles song, given that we got an earlier scene about how difficult/expensive it could be to use their music. Times have changed in some ways, but the Fab Four's catalog still doesn't come cheap, and Matt Weiner made sure to let us know in advance what a big deal — and big budgetary sacrifice — it was for the show to bring us this moment.
And perhaps reflecting that accelerated pace, it feels like certain stories are unfolding more briskly than they might have earlier in the series. It took the first Mrs. Draper three seasons to realize she wanted Don out of her house for good; it took her successor only eight episodes to decide she wanted out of Don's office. And Don, having seen what happened when Betty's dreams all withered and died, is smart enough to quickly agree to let her quit.
The problem is that Megan has somehow built up all the power in their relationship, at work and at home. Megan is the one who keeps Don current, and she's the one who keeps him even vaguely engaged at the office. Joan suggests to Peggy that Megan is just another woman like Betty, but Peggy knows that she's more than that to Don. Megan is everything Don has dreamed of: the glamor and easy charm of Betty, the gift and (seeming) passion for creative work of Peggy, and the independent streak of Don's various mistresses. But fulfilling Don's dreams has put her own on hold, and letting her return to them has Don facing a very literal abyss: the very first thing that happens after Megan leaves the office for good is Don nearly stepping into an empty elevator shaft. Peggy tries to resume her role as Don's work wife — literally in the Cool Whip pitch — but the chemistry's not the same, Don is distracted, Peggy forgets the tagline, and the Head of Desserts wanders off shaking his head. After that awkward pitch, Don goes home and listens to "Tomorrow Never Knows" on Megan's recommendation, but that song — with its backwards guitar solo, Indian influences and lyrics advising you to "Lay down all thoughts, surrender to the void" — may as well have been crafted on Michael Ginsberg's home planet, for all that it speaks to him. He picks the record needle up and walks sadly towards the empty bedroom, adrift at work again and now at risk of losing his wife to another world he knows little of. Don Draper, master of the universe, is now utterly dependent on a woman he can't control (and doesn't want to) and can't entirely understand.
Pete Campbell, meanwhile, has aspired to be Don Draper in many ways, and has usually failed. But here he also finds himself in a relationship with a woman who resembles his first wife on a superficial level, and where the woman has all the power. Pete thought he was taking advantage of Howard's cheated-upon wife Beth, but it turns out she was taking advantage of him. She knows her husband's sleeping around, and she's feeling some existential despair in the wake of seeing those Earth photos, and sex with another man — particularly a man who rides the train with Howard every day — seems vaguely reassuring to her. But that's all she wants, where Pete wants to turn it into an affair of his own. And just as Pete had trouble understanding or controlling Peggy back in the day, he learns here that he's powerless to hold onto Beth, who's able to make their relationship disappear as easily as rolling down the window erases the heart she drew in the fogged-up window.
The episode takes its title from a Sylvia Plath poem rife with Holocaust imagery, about a woman who specializes in dying but keeps being brought back to life to suffer. She doesn't get to escape. On "Mad Men" this week, Megan is allowed to leave Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce, and Beth avoids becoming Pete Campbell's mistress, but their escapes in turn leave the men in question feeling trapped and confused and alone.
Some other thoughts:
* Alexis Bledel (who played Beth) hasn't done much in the way of high-profile work since "Gilmore Girls" ended — the last thing I saw her in was the "ER" finale — and her stiff performance here (the only thing keeping "Lady Lazarus" from being at quite the level of the last few episodes) was a reminder of why. The less dialogue she has to deliver, the better — which makes it remarkable that she wasn't more problematic for "Gilmore Girls." (That, or it makes Lauren Graham even more impressive in comparison.)
* I have to admit to not even recognizing Dennis Haskins — Principal Belding from "Saved by the Bell," and here the Head of Desserts — until someone pointed it out to me on Twitter.
* It's interesting to see that even as they've become something resembling friends, Peggy and Joan still see the world in a different way. Peggy looks at Megan and feels hopeful about the world and the prospects for women (or, at least, for women like Megan who are good at everything). Joan (whom we know is also good at everything she does) looks at Megan in the same deeply cynical way she looks at almost everyone else.
* Is Roger now trying to play head games with Pete to get back at him for the Mohawk stunt? Or has the clarity he achieved with the LSD made him also recognize that he's perfectly happy doing no work if the agency is going to succeed anyway?
* Just as Megan isn't exactly Betty, or Peggy, the song Ken and Stan pick for the Cheavlier Blanc ad isn't exactly a Beatles song, though it's one they recorded for their legendary audition for Decca Records. It's "September in the Rain," and Shazam tells me this is a version recorded by The Wedgewoods. Note that out-of-touch Don immediately assumes it is The Beatles, while younger man of the moment Ginsberg is horrified by the old-fashioned nature of the song (first published in 1937).
Marvin
Footballguy
No mention of the Thomas Pynchon book. Amateur.Early in "Lady Lazarus," Don complains to Megan that he has no idea what's happening in pop culture anymore. She reassures him that "No one can keep up; it's always changing." Culturally, it feels like we've seen more change in this season than the four previous, and that rate is only accelerating. The Beatles are starting to move into psychedelia, as evidenced by "Tomorrow Never Knows," the final track on "Revolver" that Don listens to(*) at Megan's urging. In 1960, no one had the first clue that Sal was gay despite his obvious affectations; now, it's understood and accepted (and a source of jokes by Stan and the others) that one of their new clients from Chevalier Blanc plays for the other team. NASA photographs have given the people of Earth their first glimpse of what their planet looks like from space: beautiful and yet fragile and alone in the vast blackness of space. The world is changing constantly, up to and including everyone's image of it.
(*) I had to laugh when I realized Don was actually going to play an actual Beatles song, given that we got an earlier scene about how difficult/expensive it could be to use their music. Times have changed in some ways, but the Fab Four's catalog still doesn't come cheap, and Matt Weiner made sure to let us know in advance what a big deal — and big budgetary sacrifice — it was for the show to bring us this moment.
And perhaps reflecting that accelerated pace, it feels like certain stories are unfolding more briskly than they might have earlier in the series. It took the first Mrs. Draper three seasons to realize she wanted Don out of her house for good; it took her successor only eight episodes to decide she wanted out of Don's office. And Don, having seen what happened when Betty's dreams all withered and died, is smart enough to quickly agree to let her quit.
The problem is that Megan has somehow built up all the power in their relationship, at work and at home. Megan is the one who keeps Don current, and she's the one who keeps him even vaguely engaged at the office. Joan suggests to Peggy that Megan is just another woman like Betty, but Peggy knows that she's more than that to Don. Megan is everything Don has dreamed of: the glamor and easy charm of Betty, the gift and (seeming) passion for creative work of Peggy, and the independent streak of Don's various mistresses. But fulfilling Don's dreams has put her own on hold, and letting her return to them has Don facing a very literal abyss: the very first thing that happens after Megan leaves the office for good is Don nearly stepping into an empty elevator shaft. Peggy tries to resume her role as Don's work wife — literally in the Cool Whip pitch — but the chemistry's not the same, Don is distracted, Peggy forgets the tagline, and the Head of Desserts wanders off shaking his head. After that awkward pitch, Don goes home and listens to "Tomorrow Never Knows" on Megan's recommendation, but that song — with its backwards guitar solo, Indian influences and lyrics advising you to "Lay down all thoughts, surrender to the void" — may as well have been crafted on Michael Ginsberg's home planet, for all that it speaks to him. He picks the record needle up and walks sadly towards the empty bedroom, adrift at work again and now at risk of losing his wife to another world he knows little of. Don Draper, master of the universe, is now utterly dependent on a woman he can't control (and doesn't want to) and can't entirely understand.
Pete Campbell, meanwhile, has aspired to be Don Draper in many ways, and has usually failed. But here he also finds himself in a relationship with a woman who resembles his first wife on a superficial level, and where the woman has all the power. Pete thought he was taking advantage of Howard's cheated-upon wife Beth, but it turns out she was taking advantage of him. She knows her husband's sleeping around, and she's feeling some existential despair in the wake of seeing those Earth photos, and sex with another man — particularly a man who rides the train with Howard every day — seems vaguely reassuring to her. But that's all she wants, where Pete wants to turn it into an affair of his own. And just as Pete had trouble understanding or controlling Peggy back in the day, he learns here that he's powerless to hold onto Beth, who's able to make their relationship disappear as easily as rolling down the window erases the heart she drew in the fogged-up window.
The episode takes its title from a Sylvia Plath poem rife with Holocaust imagery, about a woman who specializes in dying but keeps being brought back to life to suffer. She doesn't get to escape. On "Mad Men" this week, Megan is allowed to leave Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce, and Beth avoids becoming Pete Campbell's mistress, but their escapes in turn leave the men in question feeling trapped and confused and alone.
Some other thoughts:
* Alexis Bledel (who played Beth) hasn't done much in the way of high-profile work since "Gilmore Girls" ended — the last thing I saw her in was the "ER" finale — and her stiff performance here (the only thing keeping "Lady Lazarus" from being at quite the level of the last few episodes) was a reminder of why. The less dialogue she has to deliver, the better — which makes it remarkable that she wasn't more problematic for "Gilmore Girls." (That, or it makes Lauren Graham even more impressive in comparison.)
* I have to admit to not even recognizing Dennis Haskins — Principal Belding from "Saved by the Bell," and here the Head of Desserts — until someone pointed it out to me on Twitter.
* It's interesting to see that even as they've become something resembling friends, Peggy and Joan still see the world in a different way. Peggy looks at Megan and feels hopeful about the world and the prospects for women (or, at least, for women like Megan who are good at everything). Joan (whom we know is also good at everything she does) looks at Megan in the same deeply cynical way she looks at almost everyone else.
* Is Roger now trying to play head games with Pete to get back at him for the Mohawk stunt? Or has the clarity he achieved with the LSD made him also recognize that he's perfectly happy doing no work if the agency is going to succeed anyway?
* Just as Megan isn't exactly Betty, or Peggy, the song Ken and Stan pick for the Cheavlier Blanc ad isn't exactly a Beatles song, though it's one they recorded for their legendary audition for Decca Records. It's "September in the Rain," and Shazam tells me this is a version recorded by The Wedgewoods. Note that out-of-touch Don immediately assumes it is The Beatles, while younger man of the moment Ginsberg is horrified by the old-fashioned nature of the song (first published in 1937).
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
I gotta admit, you would probably kill Sepinwall on Jeopardy. Unless the Final Jeopardy category was about modern television shows.
Wrighteous Ray
Footballguy
I think he just borrowed Betty's fat suit.
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
It takes me a long time to give up on a series. Mad Men still has its moments. I continued to watch The Office after Jim and Pam's wedding despite the mediocrity.
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
Love this song, but who in the hell plays the last song on a record first? Did I miss something?
Wrighteous Ray
Footballguy
Megan told Don to play that track and pointed at it on the cover. She specifically bought the record so that Don could hear how different the Beatles sounded than what he thought they sounded like.
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
Ah yes, thank you. Funny that Don asked earlier in the episode what all the fuss is about with music. Clearly, he doesn't get it. Makes me wonder if Don is starting to feel old.
Wrighteous Ray
Footballguy
No doubt about it. That theme has been going all season. When Don went to the Stones concert, when Megan threw him the surprise birthday party, etc.
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
I wonder if they're setting this up for Megan to cheat on Don. That would be a role reversal.
Premier
Footballguy
I think so. Last night was not the greatest show ever but Megan leaving the firm is going to be a pretty major plot point.
Tuco
Footballguy
When Megan said she was getting a snack, I thought for sure it was a reference to the woman that Pete just banged and she was going to have a snack. I bet she cheats eventually.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
She's definitely going to cheat on him and I think he already knows it. He knows what a good bull####ter she is and he knows that she can lie through her crazy teeth and he is incapable of catching it. Don knows this is likely the beginning of the end already. A chick getting high and doing art with a bunch of kids off-broadway has little to nothing in common with an ad man. A lot of artists view advertising as shallow, purposeless, and depressing. If she's not there yet, she'll get there. She already doesn't like the people he works with.
I think the point is more that pop culture is a playing much larger role in people's lives and evolving much more quickly than it had previously, and that leaves him a bit annoyed because he fancies himself more of a taste-maker than a follower and he can't seem to get his head around it. It's a generational thing, but I'm not so sure I see it through Don's eyes as something he sees in the context of him getting old. More like, "what the hell is going on here?" Plus, Megan has his head spinning, too. Fundamental elements are changing and a lot of people's equilibriums are being recalibrated. LSD, the first views of our planet as it sits in space, women breaking molds, the civil rights movement, youth latching on to rock and roll with religious devotion...there is a sense among the masses that each day the world is not where they left it the prior day.
Wrighteous Ray
Footballguy
That's the way old people think.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
That's how anybody who has trouble adapting to change thinks. But this was much more than your garden variety "change."
jwb
Footballguy
Thinking of earlier with Pete's stereo, and him trying to impress Don with the classical music choice ("do you like the music?"... "I do").
Apple Jack
Footballguy
“Jane wanted a baby, but I thought, ‘why do that to somebody?’”
Top five Roger line.
Top five Roger line.
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
I like this show so much I'm actually considering listening to "Revolver" all the way through.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
The show's pretty good about easy traps like "Wouldn't it be ironic if a serial adulterer got cheated on?", and generally the show has used adultery as a way to deal with unhappiness/confusion. I think Megan becoming more fulfilled via acting and playing housewife is less likely to make her cheat.And it's a pretty interesting take on women's lib: A woman has a job, but gives it up to stay at home and pursue what she wants to do. It's a much more nuanced way of tackling the issue, and it makes sense as the show moves further into the 60's and as things got more complicated.I can't understand charging 250K for that song, I guess if you can, you can. You'd think massive musical concerns like the Beatles would be willing to lend out their music cheaply to artistically worthwhile projects that do well by the song. And may even move a few units in the process.
Ted Lange as your Bartender
Footballguy
I was trying to think of other examples of original Beatles studio recordings in TV shows. There can't be many. Pretty sure The Wonder Years had one or two ("Your Mother Should Know" comes to mind; "In My Life" maybe?), but i can't think of many more. At a quarter mill per song, I understand why.
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Premier
Footballguy
I think the article linked said there haven't been any.I was trying to think of other examples of original Beatles studio recordings in TV shows. There can't be many. Pretty sure The Wonder Years had one or two ("Your Mother Should Know" comes to mind), but i can't think of many more. At a quarter mill per song, I understand why.
Ted Lange as your Bartender
Footballguy
In the last five years there haven't been any. It was a little less certain before that. It says Weiner was told this was the first time a song was used on a show, but I'm not sure that's accurate.I think the article linked said there haven't been any.I was trying to think of other examples of original Beatles studio recordings in TV shows. There can't be many. Pretty sure The Wonder Years had one or two ("Your Mother Should Know" comes to mind), but i can't think of many more. At a quarter mill per song, I understand why.
