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Mad Men on AMC (3 Viewers)

'PlasmaDogPlasma said:
'jwb said:
he also had to get "the letter" out of his mind / off his chest. "I don't want to hear about that letter anymore"
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That was particularly ridiculous. Big dogs like those guy don't get told what they can talk about. I'll be extremely disappointed in the show if the agency gets that account.
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Why? "Big dogs" don't get that way by being petty. It's not like Don told him to go f himself.
 
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'Wrighteous Ray said:
'Wrighteous Ray said:
And I'm not sure I understood the whole Ken Cosgrove thing. I know the head Dow Chemical guy is Cosgrove's father-in-law, but I can't remember what the significance of that is, or why it gave Cosgrove any power to negotiate a special deal with Don.
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Little help?
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Cosgrove didn't want to exploit his wives connection to Dow. He made a deal with herI love the Ken grew a pair and told Roger, Pete will have no part of it
 
'Apple Jack said:
'PlasmaDogPlasma said:
'jwb said:
he also had to get "the letter" out of his mind / off his chest. "I don't want to hear about that letter anymore"
Click to expand...
That was particularly ridiculous. Big dogs like those guy don't get told what they can talk about. I'll be extremely disappointed in the show if the agency gets that account.
Click to expand...
Why? "Big dogs" don't get that way by being petty. It's not like Don told him to go f himself.
Click to expand...
Sure, but Don also didn't really say anything other than "I want you to get 100% market share. I'll work really hard. BLARGH!"
 
'Wrighteous Ray said:
'Wrighteous Ray said:
And I'm not sure I understood the whole Ken Cosgrove thing. I know the head Dow Chemical guy is Cosgrove's father-in-law, but I can't remember what the significance of that is, or why it gave Cosgrove any power to negotiate a special deal with Don.
Click to expand...
Little help?
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My take is that it's what it appears at face value. Ken sees it as a conflict of interest and asked that they not pitch for it. And he has power because he can help land it or he could blow it up.
 
'badmojo1006 said:
'Wrighteous Ray said:
'Wrighteous Ray said:
And I'm not sure I understood the whole Ken Cosgrove thing. I know the head Dow Chemical guy is Cosgrove's father-in-law, but I can't remember what the significance of that is, or why it gave Cosgrove any power to negotiate a special deal with Don.
Click to expand...
Little help?
Click to expand...
Cosgrove didn't want to exploit his wives connection to Dow. He made a deal with herI love the Ken grew a pair and told Roger, Pete will have no part of it
Click to expand...
OK, so Cosgrove told his wife he wouldn't exploit the connection. The Roger/Cosgrove thing was Roger telling Cosgrove about it but that Cosgrove should act like he didn't know about it? But then Cosgrove threatened to say that he did know about it? Does any of this make sense?
 
'Wrighteous Ray said:
'Apple Jack said:
'PlasmaDogPlasma said:
'jwb said:
he also had to get "the letter" out of his mind / off his chest. "I don't want to hear about that letter anymore"
Click to expand...
That was particularly ridiculous. Big dogs like those guy don't get told what they can talk about. I'll be extremely disappointed in the show if the agency gets that account.
Click to expand...
Why? "Big dogs" don't get that way by being petty. It's not like Don told him to go f himself.
Click to expand...
Sure, but Don also didn't really say anything other than "I want you to get 100% market share. I'll work really hard. BLARGH!"
Click to expand...
Right, but this wasn't some green kid coming in and saying that. Don's reputation precedes him, so he doesn't need to bring visual aids or break out the Rockettes. They know he's good, so he just cut to the chase. You are complacent, your agency is complacent, and I will put together a campaign that will increase your market share. Remember he only had a couple days to prepare and acknowledged that it wasn't sufficient time for him to prepare to his satisfaction.
 
'Apple Jack said:
'Wrighteous Ray said:
'Wrighteous Ray said:
And I'm not sure I understood the whole Ken Cosgrove thing. I know the head Dow Chemical guy is Cosgrove's father-in-law, but I can't remember what the significance of that is, or why it gave Cosgrove any power to negotiate a special deal with Don.
Click to expand...
Little help?
Click to expand...
My take is that it's what it appears at face value. Ken sees it as a conflict of interest and asked that they not pitch for it. And he has power because he can help land it or he could blow it up.
Click to expand...
wonder how thanksgiving will be this year over at the Cosgrove houseKen "hope everybody is enjoying the turkey'FIL "your boss is a real ###"Ken "well you know.."FIL "no he's a pompous ###..and you are an ### for working for him"Ken "i'm using him as the new vilain in a novel about a war between Mars and Venus"FIL "you are an ###"
 
'Apple Jack said:
Remember he only had a couple days to prepare and acknowledged that it wasn't sufficient time for him to prepare to his satisfaction.
Click to expand...
He certainly didn't need a whole weekend to prepare that. What was he writing on that notepad when they showed him working from home? "Yell louder"?
 
'PlasmaDogPlasma said:
'Apple Jack said:
Remember he only had a couple days to prepare and acknowledged that it wasn't sufficient time for him to prepare to his satisfaction.
Click to expand...
He certainly didn't need a whole weekend to prepare that. What was he writing on that notepad when they showed him working from home? "Yell louder"?
Click to expand...
Depends on what you mean by prepare. This isn't making a diorama for third grade, where you just grab any idea out of the air and then just need a couple hours and a trip to Michaels. He needed the weekend to study their company, their products, their numbers and decide how he wanted to come at them on short notice. The last thing you want to do is show up with a hastily-thrown-together campaign.
 
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'Wrighteous Ray said:
'badmojo1006 said:
'Wrighteous Ray said:
'Wrighteous Ray said:
And I'm not sure I understood the whole Ken Cosgrove thing. I know the head Dow Chemical guy is Cosgrove's father-in-law, but I can't remember what the significance of that is, or why it gave Cosgrove any power to negotiate a special deal with Don.
Click to expand...
Little help?
Click to expand...
Cosgrove didn't want to exploit his wives connection to Dow. He made a deal with herI love the Ken grew a pair and told Roger, Pete will have no part of it
Click to expand...
OK, so Cosgrove told his wife he wouldn't exploit the connection. The Roger/Cosgrove thing was Roger telling Cosgrove about it but that Cosgrove should act like he didn't know about it? But then Cosgrove threatened to say that he did know about it? Does any of this make sense?
Click to expand...
I got the impression that it would be a huge negative to his FIL if Cosgrove was involved in trying to get the account, and Ken and Roger (being the relationship guy) both know it. The only way it even has a chance of flying is if Cosgrove has no part in the initiation of it. I think that Cosgrove knew all along that no good would come of him trying to get the account for SCDP (since that strategy had no chance of being successful), so he used the excuse that he didn't want to exploit the relationship. But he knows his power in the situation is that he could mess it up for the others' attempt, and here he shows that he's been thinking about it and is willing to use that for his own benefit.
 
'Apple Jack said:
'Wrighteous Ray said:
'Apple Jack said:
'PlasmaDogPlasma said:
'jwb said:
he also had to get "the letter" out of his mind / off his chest. "I don't want to hear about that letter anymore"
Click to expand...
That was particularly ridiculous. Big dogs like those guy don't get told what they can talk about. I'll be extremely disappointed in the show if the agency gets that account.
Click to expand...
Why? "Big dogs" don't get that way by being petty. It's not like Don told him to go f himself.
Click to expand...
Sure, but Don also didn't really say anything other than "I want you to get 100% market share. I'll work really hard. BLARGH!"
Click to expand...
Right, but this wasn't some green kid coming in and saying that. Don's reputation precedes him, so he doesn't need to bring visual aids or break out the Rockettes. They know he's good, so he just cut to the chase. You are complacent, your agency is complacent, and I will put together a campaign that will increase your market share. Remember he only had a couple days to prepare and acknowledged that it wasn't sufficient time for him to prepare to his satisfaction.
Click to expand...
Plus, it seemed to me he was trying to distance himself from that letter. Not just by saying he didn't want to hear about it anymore, but to impress them that success is what really matters, and that further and further success is the driving factor for both companies. The question the one guy threw out there sounded like a test for the letter-writing Draper, and I think he passed by showing how Napalm was not tobacco.So I think the main goals were to just get in the door, try to shed the letter image you're associated with, impress onto them that you're legit but hungry, and get them thinking.I wouldn't be disappointed if they end up getting the account. But I would if they made it sound like that speech was all it took. Hopefully, the speech was more like the first part of long courting period.
 
'jhib said:
Plus, it seemed to me he was trying to distance himself from that letter. Not just by saying he didn't want to hear about it anymore, but to impress them that success is what really matters, and that further and further success is the driving factor for both companies. The question the one guy threw out there sounded like a test for the letter-writing Draper, and I think he passed by showing how Napalm was not tobacco.So I think the main goals were to just get in the door, try to shed the letter image you're associated with, impress onto them that you're legit but hungry, and get them thinking.I wouldn't be disappointed if they end up getting the account. But I would if they made it sound like that speech was all it took. Hopefully, the speech was more like the first part of long courting period.
Click to expand...
:goodposting: Especially the part about the Napalm question, that was a huge test for Don to pass. I think Roger's remark about the protesters outside would have been a problem if Don hadn't been prepared to overlook the problems with using Napalm.
 
'jhib said:
'Apple Jack said:
'Wrighteous Ray said:
'Apple Jack said:
'PlasmaDogPlasma said:
'jwb said:
he also had to get "the letter" out of his mind / off his chest. "I don't want to hear about that letter anymore"
Click to expand...
That was particularly ridiculous. Big dogs like those guy don't get told what they can talk about. I'll be extremely disappointed in the show if the agency gets that account.
Click to expand...
Why? "Big dogs" don't get that way by being petty. It's not like Don told him to go f himself.
Click to expand...
Sure, but Don also didn't really say anything other than "I want you to get 100% market share. I'll work really hard. BLARGH!"
Click to expand...
Right, but this wasn't some green kid coming in and saying that. Don's reputation precedes him, so he doesn't need to bring visual aids or break out the Rockettes. They know he's good, so he just cut to the chase. You are complacent, your agency is complacent, and I will put together a campaign that will increase your market share. Remember he only had a couple days to prepare and acknowledged that it wasn't sufficient time for him to prepare to his satisfaction.
Click to expand...
Plus, it seemed to me he was trying to distance himself from that letter. Not just by saying he didn't want to hear about it anymore, but to impress them that success is what really matters, and that further and further success is the driving factor for both companies. The question the one guy threw out there sounded like a test for the letter-writing Draper, and I think he passed by showing how Napalm was not tobacco.So I think the main goals were to just get in the door, try to shed the letter image you're associated with, impress onto them that you're legit but hungry, and get them thinking.I wouldn't be disappointed if they end up getting the account. But I would if they made it sound like that speech was all it took. Hopefully, the speech was more like the first part of long courting period.
Click to expand...
Of course, they aren't going to hire the firm because of that meeting. But that meeting might just pique their curiosity about what the firm can come up with on the creative side.
 
'Christo said:
'jhib said:
'Apple Jack said:
'Wrighteous Ray said:
'Apple Jack said:
'PlasmaDogPlasma said:
'jwb said:
he also had to get "the letter" out of his mind / off his chest. "I don't want to hear about that letter anymore"
Click to expand...
That was particularly ridiculous. Big dogs like those guy don't get told what they can talk about. I'll be extremely disappointed in the show if the agency gets that account.
Click to expand...
Why? "Big dogs" don't get that way by being petty. It's not like Don told him to go f himself.
Click to expand...
Sure, but Don also didn't really say anything other than "I want you to get 100% market share. I'll work really hard. BLARGH!"
Click to expand...
Right, but this wasn't some green kid coming in and saying that. Don's reputation precedes him, so he doesn't need to bring visual aids or break out the Rockettes. They know he's good, so he just cut to the chase. You are complacent, your agency is complacent, and I will put together a campaign that will increase your market share. Remember he only had a couple days to prepare and acknowledged that it wasn't sufficient time for him to prepare to his satisfaction.
Click to expand...
Plus, it seemed to me he was trying to distance himself from that letter. Not just by saying he didn't want to hear about it anymore, but to impress them that success is what really matters, and that further and further success is the driving factor for both companies. The question the one guy threw out there sounded like a test for the letter-writing Draper, and I think he passed by showing how Napalm was not tobacco.So I think the main goals were to just get in the door, try to shed the letter image you're associated with, impress onto them that you're legit but hungry, and get them thinking.I wouldn't be disappointed if they end up getting the account. But I would if they made it sound like that speech was all it took. Hopefully, the speech was more like the first part of long courting period.
Click to expand...
Of course, they aren't going to hire the firm because of that meeting. But that meeting might just pique their curiosity about what the firm can come up with on the creative side.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:Exactly.
 
Seppy interviews Jared Harris (Lane).

When I talked to Jared Harris about the huge developments for Lane Pryce on last night's "Mad Men,"he reminded me of one of Lane's most important earlier scenes.

In season 3's "Guy Walks Into an Advertisement Agency," Lane is on the verge to being banished to PP&L's offices in India when Guy suffers his unfortunate accident with the lawnmower, and Lane tells Don, "I feel like I just went to my own funeral. I didn't like the eulogy."

Lane's premonition of his own death two seasons ago helped inspire him to quit PP&L and help Don and the others start up their renegade firm, but it never changed some basic facts about Lane's life: that he was a stranger in a strange land that he wanted to love more than it wanted to love him, that he was in a chilly at best marriage, and that he was never going to get the respect, or rewards, he felt he deserved. And when the world came crashing down on him in the form of Don telling him to resign because of the embezzlement, Lane made his death happen for real this time.

I spoke with Harris about how and when he found out, what it was like to film the scene where the others find Lane's body, and more.

At what point did Matt tell you this was coming?

After the readthrough for episode 10.

What was your reaction when you found out? How did that conversation go?

He went, "Hang around, because I want to talk to you." Normally, after the readthrough, he says to everybody, "Don't rush out, because this is my chance to talk to you before shooting starts." Because he's writing as we're shooting, and he gives notes to you. So everyone hangs around. I had quite a bit to do in that episode, so the people who have quite a bit to do hang around longer. He goes, "Wait, because I want to speak to you, so hang on." And he spoke to everybody else, and as he spoke to everyone else and got rid of everyone, I go, "Uh-huh." And then he goes, "Come on, let's go to my office." Anytime anyone takes you into their office, you know you're in trouble. And then he says, "So, listen, something I want to talk to you about." I went, "Uh-oh," and he went, "Yeah, sorry." And then he broke out some really really good brandy. Some ridiculous brandy that had been in casks for half a century or something. You know you're in trouble at that point.

I certainly had a clue before then, because they called up and said, "What's your handwriting like? There's a story point in an episode where Lane forges someone's signature." And I knew that wasn't good. You have little hints

I was upset. I'd grown very fond of the character. I had to shed a tear in the car on the way home that this is the way it turned out. But it's 100%, you accept. The validity for it, you couldn't argue with, and the impact you couldn't argue with.

No one is going to forget the way Lane left this show.

Sure, yeah. I probably had two seasons' worth of storyline in this episode. I went out with a bang, so I'm very very happy about that. I'm very grateful about that.

Once you found out, when did the other actors begin to find out, and what conversations did you have with them?

No one shares anything. And then heads of department get scripts, a couple of weeks before everybody. John Slattery is normally the person you go to if you want to find out what's going on, A)Because he directs episodes and generally knows stuff, but B)He knows where the early scripts are, and he gets hold of them, and he's totally indiscreet. The only person who's more indiscreet is Matt. He'll go, "I can't tell you, but..." and then tell you. So Rich Sommer came up to me and goes, "Geez, do you know? Have you read the episode?" And I said, "I know what's happening, do you?" You really try to keep it quiet.

How long were you up in that rig in the scene where the men come to cut Lane down?

We don't have a lot of time to shoot stuff. I personally might have been hanging for about an hour or so.

Have you been dead either on-screen or on-stage often before?

Many times. This television season, this is my second one. I died on "Fringe!" (laughs) I got chopped in half again on screen.

Are there any specific challenges to being dead?

Making your eyes go dead, that sort of glassy look. That one, we looked at lots of pictures of people who had hung themselves, the makeup department. There's that weird thing where the tongue sticks out. That's not a makeup thing, you've got to do that yourself. You have to make sure your tongue doesn't twitch. The hardest part was not breaking into a Monty Python song, like, "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life" while I'm hanging there in the middle of their shot. And they didn't see me. When they literally pushed through that door and saw me hanging, that was the first time they had seen it. They didn't see a rehearsal or anything like that. That was their first look at it, and that was pretty genuine shock on all their faces. They knew, of course, because they had read the script, but those guys did a brilliant job, the makeup department. And they hadn't seen that.

And this can be a jovial crew, Slattery making jokes between takes. I assume there was none of that during the breaks in filming of this.

They were pretty weirded out by it. You develop an attachment for the character, and you develop an attachment for the actors, and then they're gone. There's an empty space where they were last year, but that gets filled in very quickly. There was an appropriate level of that in terms of them getting into the shock of it and the unpleasantness of it. And of course they have to imagine other stuff, like your bowels have opened up, so the room stinks.

Lane had been having a tough go of it this season: feeling adrift, not connecting with his co-workers, with America, having some money problems. And there had also been foreshadowing within episodes of some sort of catastrophe or death coming. Before you even got that call about Lane's signature, where did you expect Lane's story to go?

Honestly, there was talk around base camp right at the start of the season, literally in the first couple of days, of something happening to somebody. I'm not sure what it was, maybe people intuited it, there was just a feeling going, that someone was man overboard. I'm not sure where that came from. For me, when I went to all the costume fittings, I saw that he hadn't been taking as good care of himself. There were stains in his shirts and his waistcoats. I would point them out, "This is dirty," and they'd go, "Yeah, that's what we're doing this season." And I'd go, "Yeah, that's not good."

But I'm not sure where I thought he was going. Where Lane thought he was going or where Jared thought he was going, on this show, it's never been very useful to project that way as the actor. Because you get attached to ideas that obviously have no relation to what Matt wants to do. In the same way, you can't make up a biography for your character, which is something to do with how many brothers you have, you've been married before, or you're trying to build an identity that attaches you to the character. And Matt has a completely different idea that he reveals to you in episode 7, and you've attached yourself to these other ideas.

But in terms of Lane, I think he very much wanted to make a go of it. I think he felt like the only thing that was missing was some really good solid contracts, and once the money started flowing, everything would be all right. His connections that he'd made at the office weren't really tight. I don't think any of these people would invite Lane to their houses unless they were obliged to, they didn't want to hang out with him. In that sense, he'd become marginalized. His closest ally's Joan, because at work, the people you spend your time working with are the ones you get to know the most, and they deal with the day-to-day of the business. That was his closest ally, and Joan herself is not in a really strong spot in the agency. She, to a large extent, felt herself being marginalized as well. So they're two people who feel they're on the outs. They're not at the sexy end of the business, they're dealing with the books and everything.

Do you have, over the course of these three seasons that you played Lane, a favorite moment or a favorite story you got to do?

I think my favorite moment was the car not starting. When he told me that was going to happen, I laughed solidly for about five minutes. That was a lovely touch. There's that little scene by the soda machine, with Don where they talk about Mark Twain and going to your own funeral. That was a good moment, and an intimation of where things were going to turn for him — where he would go his own way. He's such a sad character. I suppose the defining moment for the character is when his father thumps him on the head, stands on his hand and makes him come back to England. You feel a guy who's just been under the crush all his life, and there's so much repression inside of him.

In terms of the car not starting, at what point in the episode, do you feel Lane decided to kill himself, or at what point did Matt tell you in the story that Lane decided to kill himself?

I think probably when he sees the car. I don't think up to that point, he knows what to do. I think he sat in the office getting drunk, he had some magical thinking, was hoping he would change his mind, you're going to be rescued in some way. When he sees the car, I think that's when he makes the decision that he's going to kill himself in that car. And once he's decided that — there's vindictiveness about how he goes about it. He hangs himself in the office. He makes it as difficult for them as possible.
Click to expand...
 
'Raider Nation said:
Seppy interviews Jared Harris (Lane).

No one shares anything. And then heads of department get scripts, a couple of weeks before everybody. John Slattery is normally the person you go to if you want to find out what's going on, A)Because he directs episodes and generally knows stuff, but B)He knows where the early scripts are, and he gets hold of them, and he's totally indiscreet.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Love this
 
'PlasmaDogPlasma said:
'jwb said:
he also had to get "the letter" out of his mind / off his chest. "I don't want to hear about that letter anymore"
Click to expand...
That was particularly ridiculous. Big dogs like those guy don't get told what they can talk about. I'll be extremely disappointed in the show if the agency gets that account.
Click to expand...
What are they going to do? Fire him?He was taking a long-shot at the Dow account. He knew he had to do something different...something to get their attention.

 
'Premier said:
I would think anybody with some dignity would cut the guy down. Why is that even a question?
Click to expand...
My best friend all my life hung himself after his wife said she was leaving him. The morning it happened, she discovered him and she called the police, then me. I arrived first (lived right down the street), saw him, and didn't even think about cutting him down. It wasn't a "crime scene" technically, but I still didn't want to mess with anything.
 
'Raider Nation said:
'Premier said:
I would think anybody with some dignity would cut the guy down. Why is that even a question?
Click to expand...
My best friend all my life hung himself after his wife said she was leaving him. The morning it happened, she discovered him and she called the police, then me. I arrived first (lived right down the street), saw him, and didn't even think about cutting him down. It wasn't a "crime scene" technically, but I still didn't want to mess with anything.
Click to expand...
Sucks about your friend.
 
'Premier said:
The having to get rid of 3 actors is Internet myth. Weiner isn't writing his show on amc's terms.
Click to expand...
I was wrong. But AMC had been pushing for it:Mr. Weiner said: “And then they compromised, and I compromised. A little.” He did not win his battle for a 2011 premiere, but his cast and running time remained intact, and a deal was struck to keep him at the show through a seventh season, when it will come to an end.http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/11/arts/television/matthew-weiner-is-silent-on-mad-men-season-premiere.html?_r=1
 
'Premier said:
'Raider Nation said:
'Premier said:
I would think anybody with some dignity would cut the guy down. Why is that even a question?
Click to expand...
My best friend all my life hung himself after his wife said she was leaving him. The morning it happened, she discovered him and she called the police, then me. I arrived first (lived right down the street), saw him, and didn't even think about cutting him down. It wasn't a "crime scene" technically, but I still didn't want to mess with anything.
Click to expand...
Sucks about your friend.
Click to expand...
Indeed. You can't unsee something like that. Happened 11 years ago though.
 
'Apple Jack said:
'PlasmaDogPlasma said:
'Apple Jack said:
Remember he only had a couple days to prepare and acknowledged that it wasn't sufficient time for him to prepare to his satisfaction.
Click to expand...
He certainly didn't need a whole weekend to prepare that. What was he writing on that notepad when they showed him working from home? "Yell louder"?
Click to expand...
Depends on what you mean by prepare. This isn't making a diorama for third grade, where you just grab any idea out of the air and then just need a couple hours and a trip to Michaels. He needed the weekend to study their company, their products, their numbers and decide how he wanted to come at them on short notice. The last thing you want to do is show up with a hastily-thrown-together campaign.
Click to expand...
Right, he was reading the group and he got their attention. I think he did exactly what he planned. He got the FIL to forget about the Letter and believe he would not throw his company under the bus.
 
'identikit said:
'badmojo1006 said:
'Daywalker said:
Perhaps I'm forgetting a scene but how does Ken have even a hint that Joan getting a partner stake was unseemly?
Click to expand...
He was there with Pete the first time the Jaguar rep proposed it. He just put 2+2 together and figured it out
Click to expand...
Yep.Ken thought the whole thing was unseemly then.
Click to expand...
Ken didn't even want to entertain the idea at the Jaguar dinner, but Campbell stepped in. I liked Don's subtly pained expression at the barber shop when the guy mentions how impressed jaguar was with Pete Campbell. It's like a jab that tells him that they didn't neccessarily win this vitory with the creative...
 
Brilliant dark season...best season in the run

could have done without the Sally in the restroom scene..It got the message across, but it was really crass imo.

 
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