Making A Murderer (Netflix) (Spoilers) (1 Viewer)

[MattFancy]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Maybe they were left in the car?

 

[TobiasFunke]

This Netflix story is so one sided.

Here's more info

OMG, he owned pron?!

Yeah, that journalist (same one who did a great writeup from the local perspective several days ago that was posted here) did herself no favors by including everything she could possibly come up with as evidence against Avery. A lot of that stuff is important but including the irrelevant stuff about the porn and the fight with his girlfriend and the steel tire belts drowns it out a bit.

 

[avoiding injuries]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Maybe they were left in the car?

My problem is, if I think the police planted the evidence and set SA up, I'm having to assume they killed Theresa. Unless they found the car abandoned with the keys in it, but by then, they had already started the process to frame SA. That's as hard to believe as the stuff against SA.

 

[Cjw_55106]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Maybe they were left in the car?

My problem is, if I think the police planted the evidence and set SA up, I'm having to assume they killed Theresa. Unless they found the car abandoned with the keys in it, but by then, they had already started the process to frame SA. That's as hard to believe as the stuff against SA.

It seems very likely that Colburn was looking at the car when he called in the plates two days before it was found.

 

[ericttspikes]

Avery seems like a low life creep, but even low life creeps deserve a fair trial. The news conference describing the bloody grisly bedroom murder that never happened was enough of a travesty, but the kicker was the tampered with blood vial. There is zero legit reason to slit open a sealed evidence kit and poke a syringe into it. Maybe that #### happens all the time, but it was shocking to me. I agree with his defense team; I hope he did it, because the cops and the legal system made sure he was found guilty despite mountains of reasonable doubt.

 

[blend]

I think I've read in places that the key was not normal key, but rather the key you'd give a valet... It didn't open the glove box etc... That the key was a spare of some kind. Which would help explain why there wasn't other keys with it.

 

[Max Power]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Key looks like the spare to me. They could have gotten it from her house. speculating here of course.

 

[MattFancy]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Maybe they were left in the car?

My problem is, if I think the police planted the evidence and set SA up, I'm having to assume they killed Theresa. Unless they found the car abandoned with the keys in it, but by then, they had already started the process to frame SA. That's as hard to believe as the stuff against SA.

I can believe they set up evidence without assuming the police killed her.

If it was her actual key, why wasn't her DNA on it? You'd think there would be prints or something of hers on the key, correct?

 

[avoiding injuries]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Maybe they were left in the car?

My problem is, if I think the police planted the evidence and set SA up, I'm having to assume they killed Theresa. Unless they found the car abandoned with the keys in it, but by then, they had already started the process to frame SA. That's as hard to believe as the stuff against SA.

It seems very likely that Colburn was looking at the car when he called in the plates two days before it was found.

Completely agree. At that point, they've already spent a few days gathering the evidence against SA. The gift of the car and key just land in their lap? Maybe they found the car, and then got the spare key. But now you're having to assume the victim's family is involved. Which maybe they are if they were tipped off on where to find the vehicle in the salvage yard.

 

[ericttspikes]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Maybe they were left in the car?

My problem is, if I think the police planted the evidence and set SA up, I'm having to assume they killed Theresa. Unless they found the car abandoned with the keys in it, but by then, they had already started the process to frame SA. That's as hard to believe as the stuff against SA.

I didn't come to the conclusion that the cops were the killers. Could of been anybody; Avery, a relative of Avery, her ex-boyfriend, stalker, co-worker, etc. The Colburn call to dispatch where he read a plate # then asked if the victims car was a Toyota Rav 4 before the car was found was weird. It's clear that Avery's lawsuit was going to cause problems for a lot of connected people. I don't think it's a stretch for a few of those people to rationalize that it didn't matter who the murderer was as long as Avery went to jail for it.

My biggest question is what was the motive for Avery to do it? He was finally free, stood to make millions, was a celebrity of sorts, was going to get married, and he wakes up and decides to murder someone? I mean, he certainly could be an true psychotic by birth or made that way by 18 years in prison, but I don't see what his motive could possibly be. I see plenty of motive for a couple of dirty cops to protect their own and put a creep away before heads roll.

 

[avoiding injuries]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Maybe they were left in the car?

My problem is, if I think the police planted the evidence and set SA up, I'm having to assume they killed Theresa. Unless they found the car abandoned with the keys in it, but by then, they had already started the process to frame SA. That's as hard to believe as the stuff against SA.

I can believe they set up evidence without assuming the police killed her.

If it was her actual key, why wasn't her DNA on it? You'd think there would be prints or something of hers on the key, correct?

Nobody knew what her everyday keys looked like? I'd think if they wanted to find the real killer, and those weren't her actual keys, someone would have spoken up.

 

[LAUNCH]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Maybe they were left in the car?

My problem is, if I think the police planted the evidence and set SA up, I'm having to assume they killed Theresa. Unless they found the car abandoned with the keys in it, but by then, they had already started the process to frame SA. That's as hard to believe as the stuff against SA.

It seems very likely that Colburn was looking at the car when he called in the plates two days before it was found.

Completely agree. At that point, they've already spent a few days gathering the evidence against SA. The gift of the car and key just land in their lap? Maybe they found the car, and then got the spare key. But now you're having to assume the victim's family is involved. Which maybe they are if they were tipped off on where to find the vehicle in the salvage yard.

That whole sequence where he called in the plates, if they weren't edited to save time, seemed so quick like both parties knew that what the conversation was going to be before it started.

 

[Northern Voice]

Circling back to my question earlier...is it considered proper/ethical/whatever you want to call it...for a juror to listen to the evidence...disagree with how the prosecution says a crime went down but still convict the defendant because you believe the evidence proved he did it...just not in the way the prosecution argued?

If the charge is murder, and the prosecution argues that he murdered her with a gun, but a juror is convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that he murdered her with a knife, the juror should find him guilty of murder. The charge isn't that he did something in a specific way, but just that he did the thing he's charged with.

This is how I thought it would/should be. That's why it made me a bit angry that the prosecution not only put the burden of proof on the defense that SA didn't do, but to prove that the police were in fact the killers. I believe in the closing arguments "the prize" said something to the effect of, "if you believe the defense, then you have to take the next step and say that the police killed Teresa." Shouldn't they only have to show that he's not guilty of the thing he's charged with?

This was kind of a genius move when you consider they had also successfully argued to not have the 4 other possible suspects in the murder included as part of the defense.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Circling back to my question earlier...is it considered proper/ethical/whatever you want to call it...for a juror to listen to the evidence...disagree with how the prosecution says a crime went down but still convict the defendant because you believe the evidence proved he did it...just not in the way the prosecution argued?

If the charge is murder, and the prosecution argues that he murdered her with a gun, but a juror is convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that he murdered her with a knife, the juror should find him guilty of murder. The charge isn't that he did something in a specific way, but just that he did the thing he's charged with.

This is how I thought it would/should be. That's why it made me a bit angry that the prosecution not only put the burden of proof on the defense that SA didn't do, but to prove that the police were in fact the killers. I believe in the closing arguments "the prize" said something to the effect of, "if you believe the defense, then you have to take the next step and say that the police killed Teresa." Shouldn't they only have to show that he's not guilty of the thing he's charged with?

This was kind of a genius move when you consider they had also successfully argued to not have the 4 other possible suspects in the murder included as part of the defense.

Id like to hear from the lawyers as to how common this is. Seems like the judge screwed them with this ruling.

 

[Billy Bats]

A question for Woz or any trial lawyer. Have you ever seen, or heard of, a defendant requesting a new public defender and get denied? Especially after the defendant told the judge that his lawyer thinks he's guilty? I found that shocking and am wondering if that's normal for a judge to decline that request.

 

[Sabertooth]

Yeah, that was bogus. Although the same judge did give him a new attorney when it came to light that Kachinsky allowed Brendan to be interviewed without himself present.

 

[Sabertooth]

https://twitter.com/TODAYshow/status/684373410038718464

Juror said they feared for their life.

Ken Kratz on TMZ

We also asked him about a shocking comment he made to the jury during closing arguments ... that EVEN if cops did plant evidence, there was plenty of other, legitimate evidence to convict Avery.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz3wNuzhYZs

http://www.tmz.com/videos/0_vqspvlae

Wow. If that juror does come forward publicly, I think it might be grounds for something. I wonder if they were threatened or just had the spectre of the MCSD over them?

 

[playin4beer]

I'm just getting caught up in all this.. Haven't watched any of it yet..

That being said, I've been in the automotive salvage business my whole life (family business).. I used to work for a computer company that sold software/hardware to

salvage yards.. Wisconsin was one of the States in my territory.. I've been to Avery's Auto Salvage..

If it was a case of making a car "disappear", it could have been done VERY easily...

 

[Billy Bats]

Yeah, that was bogus. Although the same judge did give him a new attorney when it came to light that Kachinsky allowed Brendan to be interviewed without himself present.

Ok, haven't seen that episode yet. Was starting to assume that everyone was in on railroading that kid.

 

[Sabertooth]

I'm just getting caught up in all this.. Haven't watched any of it yet..

That being said, I've been in the automotive salvage business my whole life (family business).. I used to work for a computer company that sold software/hardware to

salvage yards.. Wisconsin was one of the States in my territory.. I've been to Avery's Auto Salvage..

If it was a case of making a car "disappear", it could have been done VERY easily...

Wow. Watch the damn show and get your ### back in here.

 

[Sabertooth]

Yeah, that was bogus. Although the same judge did give him a new attorney when it came to light that Kachinsky allowed Brendan to be interviewed without himself present.

Ok, haven't seen that episode yet. Was starting to assume that everyone was in on railroading that kid.

You are not off base.

 

[avoiding injuries]

I'm just getting caught up in all this.. Haven't watched any of it yet..

That being said, I've been in the automotive salvage business my whole life (family business).. I used to work for a computer company that sold software/hardware to

salvage yards.. Wisconsin was one of the States in my territory.. I've been to Avery's Auto Salvage..

If it was a case of making a car "disappear", it could have been done VERY easily...

Where were you October 31, 2005?

 

[ericttspikes]

I'm just getting caught up in all this.. Haven't watched any of it yet..

That being said, I've been in the automotive salvage business my whole life (family business).. I used to work for a computer company that sold software/hardware to

salvage yards.. Wisconsin was one of the States in my territory.. I've been to Avery's Auto Salvage..

If it was a case of making a car "disappear", it could have been done VERY easily...

In addition to a car crusher, I thought I heard them say they also have a smelter, which I could imagine make a lot of stuff go away.

 

[matttyl]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Maybe they were left in the car?

My problem is, if I think the police planted the evidence and set SA up, I'm having to assume they killed Theresa. Unless they found the car abandoned with the keys in it, but by then, they had already started the process to frame SA. That's as hard to believe as the stuff against SA.

You can still think SA killed her even if the cops planted the key, bullet, and RAV4.

 

[Cjw_55106]

I'm just getting caught up in all this.. Haven't watched any of it yet..

That being said, I've been in the automotive salvage business my whole life (family business).. I used to work for a computer company that sold software/hardware to

salvage yards.. Wisconsin was one of the States in my territory.. I've been to Avery's Auto Salvage..

If it was a case of making a car "disappear", it could have been done VERY easily...

Yes, many people have made mention he had a crusher if he wanted to get rid of the car. Of course, he could have also had it a thousand pieces the same day if he wanted to.

 

[MattFancy]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Maybe they were left in the car?

My problem is, if I think the police planted the evidence and set SA up, I'm having to assume they killed Theresa. Unless they found the car abandoned with the keys in it, but by then, they had already started the process to frame SA. That's as hard to believe as the stuff against SA.

I can believe they set up evidence without assuming the police killed her.

If it was her actual key, why wasn't her DNA on it? You'd think there would be prints or something of hers on the key, correct?

Nobody knew what her everyday keys looked like? I'd think if they wanted to find the real killer, and those weren't her actual keys, someone would have spoken up.

No idea. But how else could you explain only his DNA on the keys and not hers? Just seems odd that there was none of her DNA on her own set of keys.

 

[MattFancy]

I'm just getting caught up in all this.. Haven't watched any of it yet..

That being said, I've been in the automotive salvage business my whole life (family business).. I used to work for a computer company that sold software/hardware to

salvage yards.. Wisconsin was one of the States in my territory.. I've been to Avery's Auto Salvage..

If it was a case of making a car "disappear", it could have been done VERY easily...

In addition to a car crusher, I thought I heard them say they also have a smelter, which I could imagine make a lot of stuff go away.

Remember hearing that as well. It just goes back to me thinking, there's no way he did this.

You're telling me he was smart enough to clean all the blood from the house and garage, but wasn't smart enough to think to use the car crusher and smelter?

 

[avoiding injuries]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Maybe they were left in the car?

My problem is, if I think the police planted the evidence and set SA up, I'm having to assume they killed Theresa. Unless they found the car abandoned with the keys in it, but by then, they had already started the process to frame SA. That's as hard to believe as the stuff against SA.

You can still think SA killed her even if the cops planted the key, bullet, and RAV4.

Then i have to make up a motive, figure out why there wasn't any blood in the house, explain how he was so calm on the phone with Lori during the middle of this and everything else that doesn't make sense to me.

 

[playin4beer]

I'm just getting caught up in all this.. Haven't watched any of it yet..

That being said, I've been in the automotive salvage business my whole life (family business).. I used to work for a computer company that sold software/hardware to

salvage yards.. Wisconsin was one of the States in my territory.. I've been to Avery's Auto Salvage..

If it was a case of making a car "disappear", it could have been done VERY easily...

Where were you October 31, 2005?

In the hospital... My youngest daughter (avatar pic) was born that day.

 

[cockroach]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Maybe they were left in the car?

My problem is, if I think the police planted the evidence and set SA up, I'm having to assume they killed Theresa. Unless they found the car abandoned with the keys in it, but by then, they had already started the process to frame SA. That's as hard to believe as the stuff against SA.

I can believe they set up evidence without assuming the police killed her.

If it was her actual key, why wasn't her DNA on it? You'd think there would be prints or something of hers on the key, correct?

Nobody knew what her everyday keys looked like? I'd think if they wanted to find the real killer, and those weren't her actual keys, someone would have spoken up.

No idea. But how else could you explain only his DNA on the keys and not hers? Just seems odd that there was none of her DNA on her own set of keys.

He's obviously a master cleaner. How do you murder someone in your bedroom (and cut her hair) without leaving a shred of her DNA? Whatever he did to clean that room/garage is what he did to the key to wipe her DNA from it... that's not that far of a stretch for me.

 

[SIDA!]

I'm just getting caught up in all this.. Haven't watched any of it yet..

That being said, I've been in the automotive salvage business my whole life (family business).. I used to work for a computer company that sold software/hardware to

salvage yards.. Wisconsin was one of the States in my territory.. I've been to Avery's Auto Salvage..

If it was a case of making a car "disappear", it could have been done VERY easily...

In addition to a car crusher, I thought I heard them say they also have a smelter, which I could imagine make a lot of stuff go away.

Remember hearing that as well. It just goes back to me thinking, there's no way he did this.

You're telling me he was smart enough to clean all the blood from the house and garage, but wasn't smart enough to think to use the car crusher and smelter?

There is no way he killed her in the trailer or the garage. So...in my opinion, in order to vote for conviction a juror would have to conclude that Avery did kill the girl but not in the way the prosecution suggested. Or vote that there was reasonable doubt and find him not guilty.

Is there anyone here in this thread who thinks Avery was guilty of this murder AND that he killed and killed her in the trailer and/or garage?

 

[matttyl]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Key looks like the spare to me. They could have gotten it from her house. speculating here of course.

Not sure. Trying to find a google image of the key they recovered. Here is a picture of Teresa I believe holding it (is that the lanyard coming out of her right hand?).

 

[avoiding injuries]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Maybe they were left in the car?

My problem is, if I think the police planted the evidence and set SA up, I'm having to assume they killed Theresa. Unless they found the car abandoned with the keys in it, but by then, they had already started the process to frame SA. That's as hard to believe as the stuff against SA.

I can believe they set up evidence without assuming the police killed her.

If it was her actual key, why wasn't her DNA on it? You'd think there would be prints or something of hers on the key, correct?

Nobody knew what her everyday keys looked like? I'd think if they wanted to find the real killer, and those weren't her actual keys, someone would have spoken up.

No idea. But how else could you explain only his DNA on the keys and not hers? Just seems odd that there was none of her DNA on her own set of keys.

There's no explanation.

 

[matttyl]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Maybe they were left in the car?

My problem is, if I think the police planted the evidence and set SA up, I'm having to assume they killed Theresa. Unless they found the car abandoned with the keys in it, but by then, they had already started the process to frame SA. That's as hard to believe as the stuff against SA.

It seems very likely that Colburn was looking at the car when he called in the plates two days before it was found.

Completely agree. At that point, they've already spent a few days gathering the evidence against SA. The gift of the car and key just land in their lap? Maybe they found the car, and then got the spare key. But now you're having to assume the victim's family is involved. Which maybe they are if they were tipped off on where to find the vehicle in the salvage yard.

Why? I'd assume in a missing person's case (which this originally was), the police would search the residence of the missing person for evidence.

 

[cockroach]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Key looks like the spare to me. They could have gotten it from her house. speculating here of course.

Not sure. Trying to find a google image of the key they recovered. Here is a picture of Teresa I believe holding it (is that the lanyard coming out of her right hand?).

Doesn't look blue enough.

 

[RUSF18]

We're 11 pages and 500+ posts in and I just realized the thread gets the show title wrong.

 

[avoiding injuries]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Maybe they were left in the car?

My problem is, if I think the police planted the evidence and set SA up, I'm having to assume they killed Theresa. Unless they found the car abandoned with the keys in it, but by then, they had already started the process to frame SA. That's as hard to believe as the stuff against SA.

It seems very likely that Colburn was looking at the car when he called in the plates two days before it was found.

Completely agree. At that point, they've already spent a few days gathering the evidence against SA. The gift of the car and key just land in their lap? Maybe they found the car, and then got the spare key. But now you're having to assume the victim's family is involved. Which maybe they are if they were tipped off on where to find the vehicle in the salvage yard.

Why? I'd assume in a missing person's case (which this originally was), the police would search the residence of the missing person for evidence.

Well, family/friend/roommate. Somebody knew what her keys looked like. And when this discovery was made, you would hope the investigators asked them if they were the ones she used.

 

[matttyl]

I'm just getting caught up in all this.. Haven't watched any of it yet..

That being said, I've been in the automotive salvage business my whole life (family business).. I used to work for a computer company that sold software/hardware to

salvage yards.. Wisconsin was one of the States in my territory.. I've been to Avery's Auto Salvage..

If it was a case of making a car "disappear", it could have been done VERY easily...

By one person alone?

 

[ericttspikes]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Maybe they were left in the car?

My problem is, if I think the police planted the evidence and set SA up, I'm having to assume they killed Theresa. Unless they found the car abandoned with the keys in it, but by then, they had already started the process to frame SA. That's as hard to believe as the stuff against SA.

I can believe they set up evidence without assuming the police killed her.

If it was her actual key, why wasn't her DNA on it? You'd think there would be prints or something of hers on the key, correct?

Nobody knew what her everyday keys looked like? I'd think if they wanted to find the real killer, and those weren't her actual keys, someone would have spoken up.

No idea. But how else could you explain only his DNA on the keys and not hers? Just seems odd that there was none of her DNA on her own set of keys.

He's obviously a master cleaner. How do you murder someone in your bedroom (and cut her hair) without leaving a shred of her DNA? Whatever he did to clean that room/garage is what he did to the key to wipe her DNA from it... that's not that far of a stretch for me.

I think the cops were flat out wrong on the bedroom and garage as the murder scene but were tied into those areas based on the bogus Dassey "confession". If Avery was the murderer, I could believe he did the killing somewhere outside, far away from the trailer, and used the Rav 4 to transport the body. But to burn the body in a bonfire 20 feet behind his trailer and leave it there when you have a smelter? The only real explanation for Avery to be the murderer is that he is a true psychopath that didn't mind being caught. And he very well might be. He possibly could of rationalized that he was owed a get out of jail free card, or something like that. But the fact remains that if all the evidence truly pointed to Avery, a few crooked cops and shady lawyers didn't need to do what they did in sealing the deal. I got the vibe that perhaps in some small towns like Manitowoc, cops are the judge, jury and executioner.

 

[playin4beer]

I'm just getting caught up in all this.. Haven't watched any of it yet..

That being said, I've been in the automotive salvage business my whole life (family business).. I used to work for a computer company that sold software/hardware to

salvage yards.. Wisconsin was one of the States in my territory.. I've been to Avery's Auto Salvage..

If it was a case of making a car "disappear", it could have been done VERY easily...

By one person alone?

Absolutely...

We have a Volvo L90 loader with 20' forks.. picks cars up and moves them around very easily.. Most of the yards that have their own crusher have a remote

in the loader that works the crusher.. it's literally a one man job.

 

[matttyl]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Maybe they were left in the car?

My problem is, if I think the police planted the evidence and set SA up, I'm having to assume they killed Theresa. Unless they found the car abandoned with the keys in it, but by then, they had already started the process to frame SA. That's as hard to believe as the stuff against SA.

You can still think SA killed her even if the cops planted the key, bullet, and RAV4.

Then i have to make up a motive, figure out why there wasn't any blood in the house, explain how he was so calm on the phone with Lori during the middle of this and everything else that doesn't make sense to me.

He has an IQ around 70, a "rational" motive may not fit here. He apparently had the hots for the girl - maybe he didn't like her turning down his advances. Maybe he didn't do it in house. Maybe the state's timeline doesn't match what actually happened (I mean, they found her bones days later - they couldn't possibly determine time of death from them, could they?).

From what we actually know, no chain of events you can come up with to show he's either innocent or guilty is without some mental gymnastics.

 

[Sabertooth]

I'm just getting caught up in all this.. Haven't watched any of it yet..

That being said, I've been in the automotive salvage business my whole life (family business).. I used to work for a computer company that sold software/hardware to

salvage yards.. Wisconsin was one of the States in my territory.. I've been to Avery's Auto Salvage..

If it was a case of making a car "disappear", it could have been done VERY easily...

In addition to a car crusher, I thought I heard them say they also have a smelter, which I could imagine make a lot of stuff go away.

Smelt haven't run for years up here.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

I'm just getting caught up in all this.. Haven't watched any of it yet..

That being said, I've been in the automotive salvage business my whole life (family business).. I used to work for a computer company that sold software/hardware to

salvage yards.. Wisconsin was one of the States in my territory.. I've been to Avery's Auto Salvage..

If it was a case of making a car "disappear", it could have been done VERY easily...

Hell your average half-wit could have made that car disappear better than what really happened. (at least for a few weeks) very easily.

 

[matttyl]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Maybe they were left in the car?

My problem is, if I think the police planted the evidence and set SA up, I'm having to assume they killed Theresa. Unless they found the car abandoned with the keys in it, but by then, they had already started the process to frame SA. That's as hard to believe as the stuff against SA.

I can believe they set up evidence without assuming the police killed her.

If it was her actual key, why wasn't her DNA on it? You'd think there would be prints or something of hers on the key, correct?

Nobody knew what her everyday keys looked like? I'd think if they wanted to find the real killer, and those weren't her actual keys, someone would have spoken up.

No idea. But how else could you explain only his DNA on the keys and not hers? Just seems odd that there was none of her DNA on her own set of keys.

He's obviously a master cleaner. How do you murder someone in your bedroom (and cut her hair) without leaving a shred of her DNA? Whatever he did to clean that room/garage is what he did to the key to wipe her DNA from it... that's not that far of a stretch for me.

From a guy with an IQ of around 70? That's too much of a stretch for me. And if he was smart enough to do that, he's dumb enough to leave her car keys in that same room and leave the car in one piece on his property - and burn her body ~20 feet from his trailer? To me, all those are more of a stretch than your scenario.

 

[Bill Brasky]

 

[Cjw_55106]

What was the point of the odd videos they showed with Halbach? I think they showed two of them?

 

[Cjw_55106]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Maybe they were left in the car?

My problem is, if I think the police planted the evidence and set SA up, I'm having to assume they killed Theresa. Unless they found the car abandoned with the keys in it, but by then, they had already started the process to frame SA. That's as hard to believe as the stuff against SA.

You can still think SA killed her even if the cops planted the key, bullet, and RAV4.

Then i have to make up a motive, figure out why there wasn't any blood in the house, explain how he was so calm on the phone with Lori during the middle of this and everything else that doesn't make sense to me.

He has an IQ around 70, a "rational" motive may not fit here. He apparently had the hots for the girl - maybe he didn't like her turning down his advances. Maybe he didn't do it in house. Maybe the state's timeline doesn't match what actually happened (I mean, they found her bones days later - they couldn't possibly determine time of death from them, could they?).

From what we actually know, no chain of events you can come up with to show he's either innocent or guilty is without some mental gymnastics.

I must have missed that. I only recall them talking about the kid's IQ.

 

[Sabertooth]

I'm just getting caught up in all this.. Haven't watched any of it yet..

That being said, I've been in the automotive salvage business my whole life (family business).. I used to work for a computer company that sold software/hardware to

salvage yards.. Wisconsin was one of the States in my territory.. I've been to Avery's Auto Salvage..

If it was a case of making a car "disappear", it could have been done VERY easily...

Hell your average half-wit could have made that car disappear better than what really happened. (at least for a few weeks) very easily.

Yup. Hiding it where the wife from Fargo could never find it.

 

[avoiding injuries]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Maybe they were left in the car?

My problem is, if I think the police planted the evidence and set SA up, I'm having to assume they killed Theresa. Unless they found the car abandoned with the keys in it, but by then, they had already started the process to frame SA. That's as hard to believe as the stuff against SA.

You can still think SA killed her even if the cops planted the key, bullet, and RAV4.

Then i have to make up a motive, figure out why there wasn't any blood in the house, explain how he was so calm on the phone with Lori during the middle of this and everything else that doesn't make sense to me.

He has an IQ around 70, a "rational" motive may not fit here. He apparently had the hots for the girl - maybe he didn't like her turning down his advances. Maybe he didn't do it in house. Maybe the state's timeline doesn't match what actually happened (I mean, they found her bones days later - they couldn't possibly determine time of death from them, could they?).From what we actually know, no chain of events you can come up with to show he's either innocent or guilty is without some mental gymnastics.

I must have missed that. I only recall them talking about the kid's IQ.

Me too

 

[matttyl]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Maybe they were left in the car?

My problem is, if I think the police planted the evidence and set SA up, I'm having to assume they killed Theresa. Unless they found the car abandoned with the keys in it, but by then, they had already started the process to frame SA. That's as hard to believe as the stuff against SA.

It seems very likely that Colburn was looking at the car when he called in the plates two days before it was found.

Completely agree. At that point, they've already spent a few days gathering the evidence against SA. The gift of the car and key just land in their lap? Maybe they found the car, and then got the spare key. But now you're having to assume the victim's family is involved. Which maybe they are if they were tipped off on where to find the vehicle in the salvage yard.

Why? I'd assume in a missing person's case (which this originally was), the police would search the residence of the missing person for evidence.

Well, family/friend/roommate. Somebody knew what her keys looked like. And when this discovery was made, you would hope the investigators asked them if they were the ones she used.

Or they found those keys in the vehicle when they called the plates in. Or "they" found the keys on her body.

Lets say the police did find her body after she was killed. It would possibly have the DNA of her killer attached somewhere. How would one destroy that evidence? Burn the body...... Hmm