Making A Murderer (Netflix) (Spoilers) (1 Viewer)

[Sabertooth]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Maybe they were left in the car?

My problem is, if I think the police planted the evidence and set SA up, I'm having to assume they killed Theresa. Unless they found the car abandoned with the keys in it, but by then, they had already started the process to frame SA. That's as hard to believe as the stuff against SA.

I can believe they set up evidence without assuming the police killed her.

If it was her actual key, why wasn't her DNA on it? You'd think there would be prints or something of hers on the key, correct?

Nobody knew what her everyday keys looked like? I'd think if they wanted to find the real killer, and those weren't her actual keys, someone would have spoken up.

No idea. But how else could you explain only his DNA on the keys and not hers? Just seems odd that there was none of her DNA on her own set of keys.

He's obviously a master cleaner. How do you murder someone in your bedroom (and cut her hair) without leaving a shred of her DNA? Whatever he did to clean that room/garage is what he did to the key to wipe her DNA from it... that's not that far of a stretch for me.

From a guy with an IQ of around 70? That's too much of a stretch for me. And if he was smart enough to do that, he's dumb enough to leave her car keys in that same room and leave the car in one piece on his property - and burn her body ~20 feet from his trailer? To me, all those are more of a stretch than your scenario.

Yeah if he's a master DNA cleaner ala "The Wolf" no way forgets to crush the car, incinerate the body, and leaves the key in his room. Remember also that he must have re-spread his DNA too because it was all over the garage floor. And in his room I'd imagine (they never said I don't think).

He seems a lot smarter than a 70 IQ person though to be honest. He fully grasps the situation whereas Brendan admitted to rape and murder so he's get out of the interview in time for 6th hour because he had a project due.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Every hypothetical scenario we suggest still leaves reasonable doubt for me. A lot of it.

 

[Cjw_55106]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Maybe they were left in the car?

My problem is, if I think the police planted the evidence and set SA up, I'm having to assume they killed Theresa. Unless they found the car abandoned with the keys in it, but by then, they had already started the process to frame SA. That's as hard to believe as the stuff against SA.

You can still think SA killed her even if the cops planted the key, bullet, and RAV4.

Then i have to make up a motive, figure out why there wasn't any blood in the house, explain how he was so calm on the phone with Lori during the middle of this and everything else that doesn't make sense to me.

He has an IQ around 70, a "rational" motive may not fit here. He apparently had the hots for the girl - maybe he didn't like her turning down his advances. Maybe he didn't do it in house. Maybe the state's timeline doesn't match what actually happened (I mean, they found her bones days later - they couldn't possibly determine time of death from them, could they?).From what we actually know, no chain of events you can come up with to show he's either innocent or guilty is without some mental gymnastics.

I must have missed that. I only recall them talking about the kid's IQ.

Me too

They talk about Steve's IQ very early. I think it was the time of the first sexual assault case.

And it was 70...just like Bendan's?

 

[Mr.Pack]

Wow, the power of an extremely biased TV show is just amazing to me how many people are taking this NetFlix series as fact, and no room at all for discussion.

The old adage, it's on TV so it must be true.

Simply amazing

 

[matttyl]

I'm just getting caught up in all this.. Haven't watched any of it yet..

That being said, I've been in the automotive salvage business my whole life (family business).. I used to work for a computer company that sold software/hardware to

salvage yards.. Wisconsin was one of the States in my territory.. I've been to Avery's Auto Salvage..

If it was a case of making a car "disappear", it could have been done VERY easily...

By one person alone?

Absolutely...

We have a Volvo L90 loader with 20' forks.. picks cars up and moves them around very easily.. Most of the yards that have their own crusher have a remote

in the loader that works the crusher.. it's literally a one man job.

I mean with only one person knowing about it. You've been there - if that crusher gets fired up at 2 AM, someone other than the operator is going to know about it, right?

 

[shadyridr]

We're 11 pages and 500+ posts in and I just realized the thread gets the show title wrong.

a juror must've started this thread

 

[Sabertooth]

Steven and Brendan supposedly have very similar IQ scores.

http://news.yahoo.com/steven-avery-5-things-know-220330109.html

 

[Cjw_55106]

Wow, the power of an extremely biased TV show is just amazing to me how many people are taking this NetFlix series as fact, and no room at all for discussion.

The old adage, it's on TV so it must be true.

Simply amazing

No room for discussion? Isnt that what we are doing?

 

[32 Counter Pass]

IIRC the defense attorneys brought to light during the trail that the murder victim's brother accessed her voice mail and deleted some messages. That seemed very suspicious in itself. Yet, no follow up for law enforcement.

 

[Sabertooth]

Wow, the power of an extremely biased TV show is just amazing to me how many people are taking this NetFlix series as fact, and no room at all for discussion.

The old adage, it's on TV so it must be true.

Simply amazing

Kind of like when Kratz went on TV? Everyone from NE Wisconsin is rejecting it as some type of bull#### too. I wonder if the truth isn't somewhere in the middle.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Steven and Brendan supposedly have very similar IQ scores.

http://news.yahoo.com/steven-avery-5-things-know-220330109.html

Pretty shocking to me to be honest. Noth that Steve was a bit slow, but that the two were similar.

 

[RUSF18]

Wow, the power of an extremely biased TV show is just amazing to me how many people are taking this NetFlix series as fact, and no room at all for discussion.

The old adage, it's on TV so it must be true.

Simply amazing

Next time quote the posts you're trying to troll.

 

[matttyl]

What was the point of the odd videos they showed with Halbach? I think they showed two of them?

In the trial itself? To personalize her to the jury. Makes her a person and not just a name.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Wow, the power of an extremely biased TV show is just amazing to me how many people are taking this NetFlix series as fact, and no room at all for discussion.

The old adage, it's on TV so it must be true.

Simply amazing

If the smoking cheesehead fits...

 

[shadyridr]

Wow, the power of an extremely biased TV show is just amazing to me how many people are taking this NetFlix series as fact, and no room at all for discussion.

The old adage, it's on TV so it must be true.

Simply amazing

no room for discussion? What do you think the 11 pages is about?

 

[Wrigley]

Didn't they find remains in 3 locations?

 

[32 Counter Pass]

Wow, the power of an extremely biased TV show is just amazing to me how many people are taking this NetFlix series as fact, and no room at all for discussion.

The old adage, it's on TV so it must be true.

Simply amazing

Way to twist words. I, for one, am saying there is enough REASONABLE in the evidence for a not guilty verdict. I have seem quotes from law officials much of the same thing you posted. Fine, then show us the evidence that removes the reasonable doubt...

 

[Cjw_55106]

Wow, the power of an extremely biased TV show is just amazing to me how many people are taking this NetFlix series as fact, and no room at all for discussion.

The old adage, it's on TV so it must be true.

Simply amazing

Kind of like when Kratz went on TV? Everyone from NE Wisconsin is rejecting it as some type of bull#### too. I wonder if the truth isn't somewhere in the middle.

Probably is. From what I gather, most people in this forum dont think he's necessarily innocent.

 

[matttyl]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Key looks like the spare to me. They could have gotten it from her house. speculating here of course.

Not sure. Trying to find a google image of the key they recovered. Here is a picture of Teresa I believe holding it (is that the lanyard coming out of her right hand?).

Key

Looks like a well used and worn key. I don't think it was a "spare".

 

[Sabertooth]

IIRC the defense attorneys brought to light during the trail that the murder victim's brother accessed her voice mail and deleted some messages. That seemed very suspicious in itself. Yet, no follow up for law enforcement.

Just rewatching this. He says he did not delete and voicemails to his knowledge. But he and the ex boyfriend apparantly knew her password or "guessed" it (I would assume Cingular doesn't have a lockout and just let's you continue to guess and guess and guess...lucky!)

 

[MattFancy]

Wow, the power of an extremely biased TV show is just amazing to me how many people are taking this NetFlix series as fact, and no room at all for discussion.

The old adage, it's on TV so it must be true.

Simply amazing

You must be new to this thread

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Steven and Brendan supposedly have very similar IQ scores.

http://news.yahoo.com/steven-avery-5-things-know-220330109.html

Shocking

 

[avoiding injuries]

Steven and Brendan supposedly have very similar IQ scores.

http://news.yahoo.com/steven-avery-5-things-know-220330109.html

Pretty shocking to me to be honest. Noth that Steve was a bit slow, but that the two were similar.

Yes, Brendan seemed to have half the iq of any other Avery. As crazy as that would sound if you had never heard of Brendan.

 

[Cjw_55106]

What was the point of the odd videos they showed with Halbach? I think they showed two of them?

In the trial itself? To personalize her to the jury. Makes her a person and not just a name.

No, it didnt seem like it was part of the trial.

 

[Sabertooth]

Steven and Brendan supposedly have very similar IQ scores.

http://news.yahoo.com/steven-avery-5-things-know-220330109.html

Pretty shocking to me to be honest. Noth that Steve was a bit slow, but that the two were similar.

Well the Avery stuff is from over 25 years ago. Is IQ static pretty much? He sure seems a lot sharper than Dassey.

 

[Gustavo Fring]

This may have already been mentioned, but I just finished the season and have not read the entire thread...there are multiple times where Detective Lenk's story was changed during the trial from his original statements made months earlier, so it would better fit with the prosecutor's timeline (e.g. the whole time log around the Rav 4 after discovery). Also, Coburn was still sniffing around evidence 4 months AFTER he was removed from the investigation for conflict of interest reasons.

How this does not scream reasonable doubt to the jury is beyond me, let alone, all of the other pieces of evidence that could be seen as reasonable doubt for Avery's case of innocence.

I have about a 25% gut feeling that he may have been guilty, as she was last saw on his property, but I also think evidence had to have been planted by the police to some degree. They search his trailer multiple times head to toe, and didn't find the key until like the 3rd day or something after already searching everything? Shady...

 

[Road Warriors]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Maybe they were left in the car?

My problem is, if I think the police planted the evidence and set SA up, I'm having to assume they killed Theresa. Unless they found the car abandoned with the keys in it, but by then, they had already started the process to frame SA. That's as hard to believe as the stuff against SA.

You mean the call to dispatch to run the plate ( before Theresa was declared missing ), where the cop states the year, make and model of the car with that plate, in which there was blood and DNA from Theresa in the back, swirled by her hair wouldn't give some means to take possession of the car and key prior to starting the framing?

My guess is they ( sherrif's dept ) found the car with the key and the blood, either on the Avery scrap lot or somewhere nearby.

 

[matttyl]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Maybe they were left in the car?

My problem is, if I think the police planted the evidence and set SA up, I'm having to assume they killed Theresa. Unless they found the car abandoned with the keys in it, but by then, they had already started the process to frame SA. That's as hard to believe as the stuff against SA.

You can still think SA killed her even if the cops planted the key, bullet, and RAV4.

Then i have to make up a motive, figure out why there wasn't any blood in the house, explain how he was so calm on the phone with Lori during the middle of this and everything else that doesn't make sense to me.

He has an IQ around 70, a "rational" motive may not fit here. He apparently had the hots for the girl - maybe he didn't like her turning down his advances. Maybe he didn't do it in house. Maybe the state's timeline doesn't match what actually happened (I mean, they found her bones days later - they couldn't possibly determine time of death from them, could they?).

From what we actually know, no chain of events you can come up with to show he's either innocent or guilty is without some mental gymnastics.

I must have missed that. I only recall them talking about the kid's IQ.

I'm rewatching the series, watched episode 1 again last night - and I think his IQ was stated from the lawyer he had for the 1985 case (an older heavy set woman).

 

[Sabertooth]

Wow, the power of an extremely biased TV show is just amazing to me how many people are taking this NetFlix series as fact, and no room at all for discussion.

The old adage, it's on TV so it must be true.

Simply amazing

Kind of like when Kratz went on TV? Everyone from NE Wisconsin is rejecting it as some type of bull#### too. I wonder if the truth isn't somewhere in the middle.

Probably is. From what I gather, most people in this forum dont think he's necessarily innocent.

I don't. I'd like to see him get a new trial though just because of all the shenanigans that occurred. The "hide the children" press conference was so manipulative to the entire jury pool area.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Wow, the power of an extremely biased TV show is just amazing to me how many people are taking this NetFlix series as fact, and no room at all for discussion.

The old adage, it's on TV so it must be true.

Simply amazing

Way to twist words. I, for one, am saying there is enough REASONABLE in the evidence for a not guilty verdict. I have seem quotes from law officials much of the same thing you posted. Fine, then show us the evidence that removes the reasonable doubt...

Cops shouldn't have acted inappropriately during the first case if they wanted to get the benefit of the doubt in the 2nd.

 

[SIDA!]

If we are to believe that the car and key were planted, where did they come from? How does Lenk get the key?

Maybe they were left in the car?

My problem is, if I think the police planted the evidence and set SA up, I'm having to assume they killed Theresa. Unless they found the car abandoned with the keys in it, but by then, they had already started the process to frame SA. That's as hard to believe as the stuff against SA.

I can believe they set up evidence without assuming the police killed her.

If it was her actual key, why wasn't her DNA on it? You'd think there would be prints or something of hers on the key, correct?

Nobody knew what her everyday keys looked like? I'd think if they wanted to find the real killer, and those weren't her actual keys, someone would have spoken up.

No idea. But how else could you explain only his DNA on the keys and not hers? Just seems odd that there was none of her DNA on her own set of keys.

He's obviously a master cleaner. How do you murder someone in your bedroom (and cut her hair) without leaving a shred of her DNA? Whatever he did to clean that room/garage is what he did to the key to wipe her DNA from it... that's not that far of a stretch for me.

I think the cops were flat out wrong on the bedroom and garage as the murder scene but were tied into those areas based on the bogus Dassey "confession". If Avery was the murderer, I could believe he did the killing somewhere outside, far away from the trailer, and used the Rav 4 to transport the body. But to burn the body in a bonfire 20 feet behind his trailer and leave it there when you have a smelter? The only real explanation for Avery to be the murderer is that he is a true psychopath that didn't mind being caught. And he very well might be. He possibly could of rationalized that he was owed a get out of jail free card, or something like that. But the fact remains that if all the evidence truly pointed to Avery, a few crooked cops and shady lawyers didn't need to do what they did in sealing the deal. I got the vibe that perhaps in some small towns like Manitowoc, cops are the judge, jury and executioner.

I believe the Dassey confession was months after the initial search when his cousin fingered him to the authorities.

 

[playin4beer]

I'm just getting caught up in all this.. Haven't watched any of it yet..

That being said, I've been in the automotive salvage business my whole life (family business).. I used to work for a computer company that sold software/hardware to

salvage yards.. Wisconsin was one of the States in my territory.. I've been to Avery's Auto Salvage..

If it was a case of making a car "disappear", it could have been done VERY easily...

By one person alone?

Absolutely...

We have a Volvo L90 loader with 20' forks.. picks cars up and moves them around very easily.. Most of the yards that have their own crusher have a remote

in the loader that works the crusher.. it's literally a one man job.

I mean with only one person knowing about it. You've been there - if that crusher gets fired up at 2 AM, someone other than the operator is going to know about it, right?

Depends on if anybody lives on the property.. I was there 20 years ago...

But there is nothing around it.. it's at the end of a dead-end road, in the middle of the country..

Nobody else around the area would know.. but MANY family salvage yards have a house or houses on property.

If somebody was living there? yeah, unless they can sleep through a hurricane, they'd hear it.

 

[parrot]

Omg end of episode 4 with the tampered blood evidence. This is insane. I feel bad for that kid who's clearly slow and nobody seems to realize. I'll bow out of this thread until I catch up.

On the blood vial; several Redditors have said that those types of vials are filled by puncturing the top. https://youtu.be/-XxiRSf6n8Q?t=3m39s

The seal was broken, so it's definitely possible that blood was drawn out through that hole, but evidently the hole being there is just SOP.

just catching up on this. Except they called the lab and the lab said they don't do this.

The lab wouldn't have done it, it would have been done when the blood was originally collected from Avery as in the video clip.

 

[matttyl]

From a guy with an IQ of around 70? That's too much of a stretch for me. And if he was smart enough to do that, he's dumb enough to leave her car keys in that same room and leave the car in one piece on his property - and burn her body ~20 feet from his trailer? To me, all those are more of a stretch than your scenario.

Yeah if he's a master DNA cleaner ala "The Wolf" no way forgets to crush the car, incinerate the body, and leaves the key in his room. Remember also that he must have re-spread his DNA too because it was all over the garage floor. And in his room I'd imagine (they never said I don't think).

He seems a lot smarter than a 70 IQ person though to be honest. He fully grasps the situation whereas Brendan admitted to rape and murder so he's get out of the interview in time for 6th hour because he had a project due.

I may have misheard his IQ, but I could have sworn I heard it last night referencing him in episode 1 (rewatching from start) in regards to his 1985 case. Brendan has no only a low IQ, but also some other social interaction deficiencies if you ask me.

 

[Sabertooth]

I'm just getting caught up in all this.. Haven't watched any of it yet..

That being said, I've been in the automotive salvage business my whole life (family business).. I used to work for a computer company that sold software/hardware to

salvage yards.. Wisconsin was one of the States in my territory.. I've been to Avery's Auto Salvage..

If it was a case of making a car "disappear", it could have been done VERY easily...

By one person alone?

Absolutely...

We have a Volvo L90 loader with 20' forks.. picks cars up and moves them around very easily.. Most of the yards that have their own crusher have a remote

in the loader that works the crusher.. it's literally a one man job.

I mean with only one person knowing about it. You've been there - if that crusher gets fired up at 2 AM, someone other than the operator is going to know about it, right?

I haven't looked at the timeline, but I believe he would have had a day or 2 to crush the car before Teresa was even reported missing.

I think they state 4 days. Buting says five then revises to four making a small joke about his math.

 

[Mr.Pack]

Steven and Brendan supposedly have very similar IQ scores.

http://news.yahoo.com/steven-avery-5-things-know-220330109.html

Shocking

I knew you looked familiar

 

[avoiding injuries]

This may have already been mentioned, but I just finished the season and have not read the entire thread...there are multiple times where Detective Lenk's story was changed during the trial from his original statements made months earlier, so it would better fit with the prosecutor's timeline (e.g. the whole time log around the Rav 4 after discovery). Also, Coburn was still sniffing around evidence 4 months AFTER he was removed from the investigation for conflict of interest reasons.

How this does not scream reasonable doubt to the jury is beyond me, let alone, all of the other pieces of evidence that could be seen as reasonable doubt for Avery's case of innocence.

I have about a 25% gut feeling that he may have been guilty, as she was last saw on his property, but I also think evidence had to have been planted by the police to some degree. They search his trailer multiple times head to toe, and didn't find the key until like the 3rd day or something after already searching everything? Shady...

It was 7-4 in favor of not guilty when the jury first voted. The 4 were very stubborn and persuasive according to the dismissed juror.

 

[matttyl]

They talk about Steve's IQ very early. I think it was the time of the first sexual assault case.

And it was 70...just like Bendan's?

I think they have a range from high 60s to mid to low 70s. May have to rewatch, again.

 

[SIDA!]

Wow, the power of an extremely biased TV show is just amazing to me how many people are taking this NetFlix series as fact, and no room at all for discussion.

The old adage, it's on TV so it must be true.

Simply amazing

So you disagree with my assertion that in order to convict Avery...a juror must have concluded that the murder happened somewhere other than the trailer or garage?

 

[Cjw_55106]

This may have already been mentioned, but I just finished the season and have not read the entire thread...there are multiple times where Detective Lenk's story was changed during the trial from his original statements made months earlier, so it would better fit with the prosecutor's timeline (e.g. the whole time log around the Rav 4 after discovery). Also, Coburn was still sniffing around evidence 4 months AFTER he was removed from the investigation for conflict of interest reasons.

How this does not scream reasonable doubt to the jury is beyond me, let alone, all of the other pieces of evidence that could be seen as reasonable doubt for Avery's case of innocence.

I have about a 25% gut feeling that he may have been guilty, as she was last saw on his property, but I also think evidence had to have been planted by the police to some degree. They search his trailer multiple times head to toe, and didn't find the key until like the 3rd day or something after already searching everything? Shady...

It was 7-4 in favor of not guilty when the jury first voted. The 4 were very stubborn and persuasive according to the dismissed juror.

I think it was actually 7-3 with 2 undecided.

 

[MattFancy]

This may have already been mentioned, but I just finished the season and have not read the entire thread...there are multiple times where Detective Lenk's story was changed during the trial from his original statements made months earlier, so it would better fit with the prosecutor's timeline (e.g. the whole time log around the Rav 4 after discovery). Also, Coburn was still sniffing around evidence 4 months AFTER he was removed from the investigation for conflict of interest reasons.

How this does not scream reasonable doubt to the jury is beyond me, let alone, all of the other pieces of evidence that could be seen as reasonable doubt for Avery's case of innocence.

I have about a 25% gut feeling that he may have been guilty, as she was last saw on his property, but I also think evidence had to have been planted by the police to some degree. They search his trailer multiple times head to toe, and didn't find the key until like the 3rd day or something after already searching everything? Shady...

It was 7-4 in favor of not guilty when the jury first voted. The 4 were very stubborn and persuasive according to the dismissed juror.

This is what I want to know more about. How can the jury go from the majority saying he's not guilty, to a unanimous guilty? Just seems really odd.

 

[Sabertooth]

I'm rewatching this with the wife now that it's popular. Before it was just an icky crime show but now she's onboard because it has been in the news.

 

[matttyl]

Wow, the power of an extremely biased TV show is just amazing to me how many people are taking this NetFlix series as fact, and no room at all for discussion.

The old adage, it's on TV so it must be true.

Simply amazing

Kind of like when Kratz went on TV? Everyone from NE Wisconsin is rejecting it as some type of bull#### too. I wonder if the truth isn't somewhere in the middle.

Well, either SA killed her or he didn't. That part is black and white.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Steven and Brendan supposedly have very similar IQ scores.

http://news.yahoo.com/steven-avery-5-things-know-220330109.html

Shocking

I knew you looked familiar

Pretty sure that's Shuke.

 

[Mr.Pack]

Wow, the power of an extremely biased TV show is just amazing to me how many people are taking this NetFlix series as fact, and no room at all for discussion.

The old adage, it's on TV so it must be true.

Simply amazing

Kind of like when Kratz went on TV? Everyone from NE Wisconsin is rejecting it as some type of bull#### too. I wonder if the truth isn't somewhere in the middle.

Probably is. From what I gather, most people in this forum dont think he's necessarily innocent.

I don't. I'd like to see him get a new trial though just because of all the shenanigans that occurred. The "hide the children" press conference was so manipulative to the entire jury pool area.

Well of course. If all everyone is basing their decision on is this Netflix series, of course you would.

 

[matttyl]

Steven and Brendan supposedly have very similar IQ scores.

http://news.yahoo.com/steven-avery-5-things-know-220330109.html

Pretty shocking to me to be honest. Noth that Steve was a bit slow, but that the two were similar.

SA is just far more socially capable. Not sure IQ values that.

 

[Sabertooth]

This may have already been mentioned, but I just finished the season and have not read the entire thread...there are multiple times where Detective Lenk's story was changed during the trial from his original statements made months earlier, so it would better fit with the prosecutor's timeline (e.g. the whole time log around the Rav 4 after discovery). Also, Coburn was still sniffing around evidence 4 months AFTER he was removed from the investigation for conflict of interest reasons.

How this does not scream reasonable doubt to the jury is beyond me, let alone, all of the other pieces of evidence that could be seen as reasonable doubt for Avery's case of innocence.

I have about a 25% gut feeling that he may have been guilty, as she was last saw on his property, but I also think evidence had to have been planted by the police to some degree. They search his trailer multiple times head to toe, and didn't find the key until like the 3rd day or something after already searching everything? Shady...

It was 7-4 in favor of not guilty when the jury first voted. The 4 were very stubborn and persuasive according to the dismissed juror.

This is what I want to know more about. How can the jury go from the majority saying he's not guilty, to a unanimous guilty? Just seems really odd.

Well, according to producers on the today show today (link upthread) one of the jurors feared for their personal safety if they didn't convict. Can't blame them with Lenk out there. He's stone cold.

 

[shadyridr]

I'm just getting caught up in all this.. Haven't watched any of it yet..

That being said, I've been in the automotive salvage business my whole life (family business).. I used to work for a computer company that sold software/hardware to

salvage yards.. Wisconsin was one of the States in my territory.. I've been to Avery's Auto Salvage..

If it was a case of making a car "disappear", it could have been done VERY easily...

By one person alone?

Absolutely... We have a Volvo L90 loader with 20' forks.. picks cars up and moves them around very easily.. Most of the yards that have their own crusher have a remote

in the loader that works the crusher.. it's literally a one man job.

I mean with only one person knowing about it. You've been there - if that crusher gets fired up at 2 AM, someone other than the operator is going to know about it, right?

I haven't looked at the timeline, but I believe he would have had a day or 2 to crush the car before Teresa was even reported missing.

I think they state 4 days. Buting says five then revises to four making a small joke about his math.

you are thinking about when he corrected the number of months between the November and March investigation

 

[Sabertooth]

Wow, the power of an extremely biased TV show is just amazing to me how many people are taking this NetFlix series as fact, and no room at all for discussion.

The old adage, it's on TV so it must be true.

Simply amazing

Kind of like when Kratz went on TV? Everyone from NE Wisconsin is rejecting it as some type of bull#### too. I wonder if the truth isn't somewhere in the middle.

Probably is. From what I gather, most people in this forum dont think he's necessarily innocent.

I don't. I'd like to see him get a new trial though just because of all the shenanigans that occurred. The "hide the children" press conference was so manipulative to the entire jury pool area.

Well of course. If all everyone is basing their decision on is this Netflix series, of course you would.

Have you watched the series?

 

[whoknew]

This may have already been mentioned, but I just finished the season and have not read the entire thread...there are multiple times where Detective Lenk's story was changed during the trial from his original statements made months earlier, so it would better fit with the prosecutor's timeline (e.g. the whole time log around the Rav 4 after discovery). Also, Coburn was still sniffing around evidence 4 months AFTER he was removed from the investigation for conflict of interest reasons.

How this does not scream reasonable doubt to the jury is beyond me, let alone, all of the other pieces of evidence that could be seen as reasonable doubt for Avery's case of innocence.

I have about a 25% gut feeling that he may have been guilty, as she was last saw on his property, but I also think evidence had to have been planted by the police to some degree. They search his trailer multiple times head to toe, and didn't find the key until like the 3rd day or something after already searching everything? Shady...

It was 7-4 in favor of not guilty when the jury first voted. The 4 were very stubborn and persuasive according to the dismissed juror.

This is what I want to know more about. How can the jury go from the majority saying he's not guilty, to a unanimous guilty? Just seems really odd.

Have you seen/read 12 Angry Men?