Manning 49 TDs in 15 games. Brady 49+ in 16 games (1 Viewer)

[FreeBaGeL]

If Manning had a better year than Brady because he had more TDs in one more game does that mean that Brady is much more of a winner than Manning because he has three rings in six years starting while Manning only has one in nine years.

Absolutely!

This one cracks me up. Give Manning the Patriots defense then too. Brady has done a great job managing the Patriots to wins before this year. Manning has had to win them because he couldn't count on the defense.Oh, a dominating defense doesn't help a QB? Please.

Do you have any stats to back this up?Average field position? Turnovers in the red zone?

How about this...Brady's stats have been basically consistent from year to year (up until this year of course). Statistically, there is zero correlation between Brady's TDs, QB rating, etc and New England Super Bowl wins. The Patriots won the Super Bowl in Brady's worst season as a starter, and also in his second best season as a starter.However, there is one thing with a HUGELY positive correlation to New England Super Bowl wins, that being the rank of New England's total defense.In the last 10 years New England has finished in the top 10 in total defense 3 times. Those 3 times also happen to be the 3 years they won the Super Bowl. Statistically, there is an astronomical correlation between the success of the Patriots and the success of the Patriots' defense.I ran the numbers on this in one of these type of threads last year if you want to go dig and find the exact ranks, exact TD passes, etc.

 

[DropKick]

Is Brady's 49+ even more impessive since he plays in an outdoor stadium in the Northeast and Manning plays his home games in a dome?

Not really. In 2004 Manning tossed 8 TDs in December. Brady has 9 in Dec. Both have played 4 games.

Of course really.Fact=Throwing the ball inside in a controlled environ is easier than throwing it outside.

Fact=Throwing the ball inside or in good weather outside is MUCH, MUCH easier than throwing it outside in bad weather.

Those facts are indisputable and if you look at the HUGE, HUGE advantage Manning had in playing conditions it seems rather obvious that what Brady has done is even more impressive.

To each his own.

Fair enough. BTW, do you have a link to the studies of those "undisputable facts"? I'd like to read up on them. TIA

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap?game_i...p;override=trueHere's your link. It's one of many examples that can be found of NFL games affected by weather conditions. Of course, we both know you don't need the internet as a substitute for common sense... don't we?

If Brady breaks the season record.... well... then he has the most TD passes in a season. (duh?)

If you would like to hold onto the "most TD passes thrown through 15 games mark"... well be my guest.

As far as most impressive... well, that is subjective but my vote goes to Dan Marino's 1984 season. 48 TDs and over 5,000 yards in his first year as a full time starter.

I'm pretty sure I can find examples of outdoor games not affected by weather as well. In your argument above, you proposed that ALL outdoor games are tougher to throw in than ALL indoor games. I don't believe that to be true.

Why don't you focus on one small task at a time? Start with finding examples of indoor games affected by weather.

 

[gianmarco]

One thing that I find even more amazing is his 8 INTs during the season. Manning had 10 in his record setting year. Those #'s are just mind-boggling.

 

[AussieOyOyOy]

If Manning had a better year than Brady because he had more TDs in one more game does that mean that Brady is much more of a winner than Manning because he has three rings in six years starting while Manning only has one in nine years.

Absolutely!

This one cracks me up. Give Manning the Patriots defense then too. Brady has done a great job managing the Patriots to wins before this year. Manning has had to win them because he couldn't count on the defense.Oh, a dominating defense doesn't help a QB? Please.

Do you have any stats to back this up?Average field position? Turnovers in the red zone?

How about this...Brady's stats have been basically consistent from year to year (up until this year of course). Statistically, there is zero correlation between Brady's TDs, QB rating, etc and New England Super Bowl wins. The Patriots won the Super Bowl in Brady's worst season as a starter, and also in his second best season as a starter.However, there is one thing with a HUGELY positive correlation to New England Super Bowl wins, that being the rank of New England's total defense.In the last 10 years New England has finished in the top 10 in total defense 3 times. Those 3 times also happen to be the 3 years they won the Super Bowl. Statistically, there is an astronomical correlation between the success of the Patriots and the success of the Patriots' defense.I ran the numbers on this in one of these type of threads last year if you want to go dig and find the exact ranks, exact TD passes, etc.

There's also an astronomical correlation between having a top 5 offense of all-time and having possession of Randy Moss. That's the guy that matters. People just don't get how good this guy really is.

 

[pizzatyme]

Is Brady's 49+ even more impessive since he plays in an outdoor stadium in the Northeast and Manning plays his home games in a dome?

Not really. In 2004 Manning tossed 8 TDs in December. Brady has 9 in Dec. Both have played 4 games.

Of course really.Fact=Throwing the ball inside in a controlled environ is easier than throwing it outside.

Fact=Throwing the ball inside or in good weather outside is MUCH, MUCH easier than throwing it outside in bad weather.

Those facts are indisputable and if you look at the HUGE, HUGE advantage Manning had in playing conditions it seems rather obvious that what Brady has done is even more impressive.

To each his own.

Fair enough. BTW, do you have a link to the studies of those "undisputable facts"? I'd like to read up on them. TIA

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap?game_i...p;override=trueHere's your link. It's one of many examples that can be found of NFL games affected by weather conditions. Of course, we both know you don't need the internet as a substitute for common sense... don't we?

If Brady breaks the season record.... well... then he has the most TD passes in a season. (duh?)

If you would like to hold onto the "most TD passes thrown through 15 games mark"... well be my guest.

As far as most impressive... well, that is subjective but my vote goes to Dan Marino's 1984 season. 48 TDs and over 5,000 yards in his first year as a full time starter.

I'm pretty sure I can find examples of outdoor games not affected by weather as well. In your argument above, you proposed that ALL outdoor games are tougher to throw in than ALL indoor games. I don't believe that to be true.

Why don't you focus on one small task at a time? Start with finding examples of indoor games affected by weather.

While this is true, I would also say that playing indoors gives the defense a distinct advantage as well. When playing outdoors, the offense has the advantage in adverse conditions since the WRs know their routes and the defense has to adjust. While playing indoors, on perfect footing, the defense is usually able to react much more quickly.Or would you disagree to that? I know many players, both current and past, have mentioned that bad weather helps the offense.

I would agree Terrible weather helps noone and especially when compared to playing in a dome. However, how many games this year or in Brady's career has he had to play in Terrible weather?

 

[Footballg]

This comes from a Colts take it with a grain of salt...

While I think that Brady has had a great year, I cannot give him his due when he passes Manning in week 17 for TDs. Manning in 2004 only played 1 series in week 17.

It was painful as a football fan to see Brady still in the game against the Dolphins, up 21 points, airing it out late into the 4th quarter.

I like Brady, I'm glad he is getting more recognition this year. But, unless he ties Manning with a TD pass in the 1st series against the Giants, then in my mind, Manning's mark is still the best.

Could probably close the thread here.

 

[[scooter]]

I would love to see Brady throw 2 TDs on his first two attempts next week, and then sit out the rest of the game.

 

[pizzatyme]

This comes from a Colts take it with a grain of salt...

While I think that Brady has had a great year, I cannot give him his due when he passes Manning in week 17 for TDs. Manning in 2004 only played 1 series in week 17.

It was painful as a football fan to see Brady still in the game against the Dolphins, up 21 points, airing it out late into the 4th quarter.

I like Brady, I'm glad he is getting more recognition this year. But, unless he ties Manning with a TD pass in the 1st series against the Giants, then in my mind, Manning's mark is still the best.

Could probably close the thread here.

Thanks for the post. But, by the responses, I don't seem to be alone in my thinking.

 

[pizzatyme]

I would love to see Brady throw 2 TDs on his first two attempts next week, and then sit out the rest of the game.

Not sure what that would prove, but atleast they wouldn't be trying to run up the score in a meaningless game.

 

[[scooter]]

I would love to see Brady throw 2 TDs on his first two attempts next week, and then sit out the rest of the game.

Not sure what that would prove

In the very least it would make this thread irrelevant.

 

[Footballg]

This thread isn't already irrelevant?

 

[pizzatyme]

I would love to see Brady throw 2 TDs on his first two attempts next week, and then sit out the rest of the game.

Not sure what that would prove

In the very least it would make this thread irrelevant.

Unless he can throw 2 TDs on the 1st drive, he will not match what Manning did in the same time. And yes, this thread is pretty much irrelevant!

 

[Truman]

How do you equate it if he's going up against a bunch of second stringers....

 

[pizzatyme]

How do you equate it if he's going up against a bunch of second stringers....

Some would argue that Brady played 6 inter-division games this year against second string quality talent and coaching.

 

[Jercules]

Is Brady's 49+ even more impessive since he plays in an outdoor stadium in the Northeast and Manning plays his home games in a dome?

I understand your intention with this post, but what you've actually done is give the Brady detractors a leg to stand on (as far as this thread goes anyway). By suggesting that speculative hypothesizing is an acceptable measurement of a record's relative importance, you are fueling their argument which is BASED upon speculation. By submitting this argument as a rebuttle, you are giving further creedence to their initial point, despite the fact that it is erronious. The record is the record. No need to add hype to it or detract hype from it. You can love it or hate it, but the numbers won't change for you. Also, let's keep in mind that while it's likely Brady will break the record, it hasn't happened yet.

Nonetheless, given that it's all speculation anyway, if you were to downplay someone here it would certainly have to be Manning. The "indisputable study" on my side is called "Basic Common Sense."

This comes from a Colts take it with a grain of salt...While I think that Brady has had a great year, I cannot give him his due when he passes Manning in week 17 for TDs. Manning in 2004 only played 1 series in week 17. It was painful as a football fan to see Brady still in the game against the Dolphins, up 21 points, airing it out late into the 4th quarter.I like Brady, I'm glad he is getting more recognition this year. But, unless he ties Manning with a TD pass in the 1st series against the Giants, then in my mind, Manning's mark is still the best.49 in 15 games is better than 50 in 16 IMO. Both terrific seasons, just a matter of preference. I know the record books won't care, but do the fans?Does it matter to you?

Thank God he pointed out he's a Colts homer, I never would've guessed otherwise. And presenting some contrived argument about why Manning > Brady, and then saying you're only posting to know "if the fans care," is about as transparent as it gets.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Thanks for the post. But, by the responses, I don't seem to be alone in my thinking.

If poll results of 3 out of 4 against your opinion aren't convincing.... Merry Christmas, and good luck to the Colts in the real season.

 

[RenegadeGM]

There are really very few metrics left for Manning fans to use to claim he's as good as Brady. It's got to be tough watching another one fall. If this thread helps in the grieving process, then I wish you all the best and a very merry Christmas.

Except for career completion percentage, career TD percentage, career yards per attempt and per completion, yards per game, passer rating (if you're into that kind of thing), and TDs per game, and of a course an enormous lead in all the career total categories, he's pretty much got nothing left.PS yes, I know you were fishing. I'm just killing time.

PS#2 no, I'm not saying any of the above necessarily means Manning is better than Brady.

For shame. Career numbers aren't really a valid metric for comparing someone whose first start was in 1998 with someone whose first start was in 2001, but I'd take career winning percentage, career playoff winning percentage, career Superbowls, most supermodels impregnated, and most awesome human alive over all that stuff you just said. Throw in the touchdown record and it's not even close.

Wow, some dude who plays football for your favorite team is now the greatest person on Earth! Good stuff!

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

Is Brady's 49+ even more impessive since he plays in an outdoor stadium in the Northeast and Manning plays his home games in a dome?

Not really. In 2004 Manning tossed 8 TDs in December. Brady has 9 in Dec. Both have played 4 games.

Of course really.Fact=Throwing the ball inside in a controlled environ is easier than throwing it outside.

Fact=Throwing the ball inside or in good weather outside is MUCH, MUCH easier than throwing it outside in bad weather.

Those facts are indisputable and if you look at the HUGE, HUGE advantage Manning had in playing conditions it seems rather obvious that what Brady has done is even more impressive.

To each his own.

Fair enough. BTW, do you have a link to the studies of those "undisputable facts"? I'd like to read up on them. TIA

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap?game_i...p;override=trueHere's your link. It's one of many examples that can be found of NFL games affected by weather conditions. Of course, we both know you don't need the internet as a substitute for common sense... don't we?

If Brady breaks the season record.... well... then he has the most TD passes in a season. (duh?)

If you would like to hold onto the "most TD passes thrown through 15 games mark"... well be my guest.

As far as most impressive... well, that is subjective but my vote goes to Dan Marino's 1984 season. 48 TDs and over 5,000 yards in his first year as a full time starter.

I'm pretty sure I can find examples of outdoor games not affected by weather as well. In your argument above, you proposed that ALL outdoor games are tougher to throw in than ALL indoor games. I don't believe that to be true.

Why don't you focus on one small task at a time? Start with finding examples of indoor games affected by weather.

While this is true, I would also say that playing indoors gives the defense a distinct advantage as well. When playing outdoors, the offense has the advantage in adverse conditions since the WRs know their routes and the defense has to adjust. While playing indoors, on perfect footing, the defense is usually able to react much more quickly.Or would you disagree to that? I know many players, both current and past, have mentioned that bad weather helps the offense.

I would agree Terrible weather helps noone and especially when compared to playing in a dome. However, how many games this year or in Brady's career has he had to play in Terrible weather?

I would dissagree, I know that it is often said that bad weather favors the offense, but I just don't see a lot of evidence that supports it. Cold, wind and rain rarely lead to high scores. Yes, you can have snow and or rain and still have high scoring, but that seems more the exception than the rule.

On the flip side, precision passing teams like the Warner lead Rams and the Manning lead Colts were built for playing indoors and it is silly to even suggest that it is easier for the defense and therefore harder on their offense when playing indoors. I do not see how the defense has any sort of advantage playing indoors? Indoors, away from the elements is exactly where Manning wants you; do you not agree?

You seemed to imply that terrible weather doesn't favor either side of the ball and if u did I would have to dissagree; IMO terrible weather clearly favors the defense.

Merry Christmas!

 

[phthalatemagic]

The Patriot fans here saying Brady's record is just as legit as Manning's old one are the same people that say the 72 Dolphins were garbage.

 

[Bill Lust]

The Patriot fans here saying Brady's record is just as legit as Manning's old one are the same people that say the 72 Dolphins were garbage.

Actually, I prefer to say that they were TOXIC WASTE.

 

[Phurfur]

I would love to see Brady throw 2 TDs on his first two attempts next week, and then sit out the rest of the game.

Not sure what that would prove, but atleast they wouldn't be trying to run up the score in a meaningless game.

I am the only one the knows that Manning started 16 games the year he set the record. Look it up. This is the dumbest thread of 2007.

 

[Jake22]

Is Brady's 49+ even more impessive since he plays in an outdoor stadium in the Northeast and Manning plays his home games in a dome?

Don't think I'd be pulling the "owned" out here. Too hard to compare outdoor vs indoor as there are way too many variables involved though you'd have to concede that indoor has the advantage there.

have to ask the question how many DEFENSES benefit from playing indoors, i'm sure there were teams that Manning played that were better on turf than on natural grass, have to ask the same question about Brady and some of the defenses he played against this year, only the turf is similar, it was just the weather they had to deal with.also, N.England weather hasn't been bad except maybe last two or three games, Mannings year he could've played in the same amount of bad weather/wind games in the 8 games he played outdoors......bottom line is there is no definitive answer, everyone will have their own opinion...just like I'm of the opinion that this years Patriots team does'nt even come close to alot of the top championship teams over the last 30 years, when it comes to best ever they just don't stack up against teams that had alot better defense and could actually RUN the ball when they needed to...jmho.

 

[Footballg]

Yeah, Pats only have the best defense in the league this year and are one of the best running offenses. But don't let reality disillusion your fond memories of yesteryear. I guess what it takes to be the greatest team is to be 20 years in the can so people don't remember what they want to remember.

 

[Bill Lust]

Yeah, Pats only have the best defense in the league this year and are one of the best running offenses. But don't let reality disillusion your fond memories of yesteryear. I guess what it takes to be the greatest team is to be 20 years in the can so people don't remember what they want to remember.

Contrary to popular opinion, the Pats CAN run the ball, and their defense is not as bad as some around here want it to be, but come on - it is not the best in the league.

 

[Footballg]

I'm open to debate -- if not best, it's top 3. Name me 3 better and tell me why.

 

[Pat Patriot]

If Brady throws a TD to Randy Moss to start the game, Brady will tie Manning, Moss will tie Rice and the Pats will break the record for most points in a Season. That wold be some great synergy.

The Patriots have already wrapped up the best point differential season in the history of the NFL.

Jerry Rice will still have the greatest season by a WR to his credit but if Moss passes him Saturday night, Moss will have the record for most TD's by a WR in a season.

 

[Jercules]

If Brady throws a TD to Randy Moss to start the game, Brady will tie Manning, Moss will tie Rice and the Pats will break the record for most points in a Season. That wold be some great synergy.The Patriots have already wrapped up the best point differential season in the history of the NFL.Jerry Rice will still have the greatest season by a WR to his credit but if Moss passes him Saturday night, Moss will have the record for most TD's by a WR in a season.

If you want to discount a Patriots record, that's the one. Rice had 22 TDs in 12 games - that's just ridiculous, and the fact that Moss may take the record and therefore the recognition of having the best WR season ever (having played an extra 4 games) -that's just wrong. 22 TDs in 12 games stands as the greatest season ever by a WR, regardless of what Moss does on Saturday.

 

[Upchuck]

I seem to remember people crying about Manning padding his stats that year as well. Throwing the ball inside the 5 yard line at every opportunity.

Indy homer here. I recall the stats being padded some but not like Brady this year. AFA throwing inside the 5 yard line, I also recall the Colts not being ABLE to get it done on the ground when in the red zone, so they HAD to throw. I'm old though, so maybe I'm not remembering correctly.

None of it matters anyway, really. And I don't expect the record to stand for too long anyway. Time will tell.

 

[pizzatyme]

Thanks for the post. But, by the responses, I don't seem to be alone in my thinking.

If poll results of 3 out of 4 against your opinion aren't convincing.... Merry Christmas, and good luck to the Colts in the real season.

Check your math.

 

[pizzatyme]

Is Brady's 49+ even more impessive since he plays in an outdoor stadium in the Northeast and Manning plays his home games in a dome?

I understand your intention with this post, but what you've actually done is give the Brady detractors a leg to stand on (as far as this thread goes anyway). By suggesting that speculative hypothesizing is an acceptable measurement of a record's relative importance, you are fueling their argument which is BASED upon speculation. By submitting this argument as a rebuttle, you are giving further creedence to their initial point, despite the fact that it is erronious. The record is the record. No need to add hype to it or detract hype from it. You can love it or hate it, but the numbers won't change for you. Also, let's keep in mind that while it's likely Brady will break the record, it hasn't happened yet.

Nonetheless, given that it's all speculation anyway, if you were to downplay someone here it would certainly have to be Manning. The "indisputable study" on my side is called "Basic Common Sense."

This comes from a Colts take it with a grain of salt...While I think that Brady has had a great year, I cannot give him his due when he passes Manning in week 17 for TDs. Manning in 2004 only played 1 series in week 17. It was painful as a football fan to see Brady still in the game against the Dolphins, up 21 points, airing it out late into the 4th quarter.I like Brady, I'm glad he is getting more recognition this year. But, unless he ties Manning with a TD pass in the 1st series against the Giants, then in my mind, Manning's mark is still the best.49 in 15 games is better than 50 in 16 IMO. Both terrific seasons, just a matter of preference. I know the record books won't care, but do the fans?Does it matter to you?

Thank God he pointed out he's a Colts homer, I never would've guessed otherwise. And presenting some contrived argument about why Manning > Brady, and then saying you're only posting to know "if the fans care," is about as transparent as it gets.

Jerc, thanks for the reply. But, you are wrong here. I've given credit to Brady and the Pats all over these boards. I've defended Brady in the HGH thread.I am asking a legitimate question here. The thread is 3 pages long. I'm okay with you disagreeing.

 

[Footballg]

Thanks for the post. But, by the responses, I don't seem to be alone in my thinking.

If poll results of 3 out of 4 against your opinion aren't convincing.... Merry Christmas, and good luck to the Colts in the real season.

Check your math.

Yeah, he was off by 5% --- busted!! I'm guessing the 30% is some combo of Colts homers and Pats haters.

 

[bostonfred]

There are really very few metrics left for Manning fans to use to claim he's as good as Brady. It's got to be tough watching another one fall. If this thread helps in the grieving process, then I wish you all the best and a very merry Christmas.

Except for career completion percentage, career TD percentage, career yards per attempt and per completion, yards per game, passer rating (if you're into that kind of thing), and TDs per game, and of a course an enormous lead in all the career total categories, he's pretty much got nothing left.PS yes, I know you were fishing. I'm just killing time.

PS#2 no, I'm not saying any of the above necessarily means Manning is better than Brady.

For shame. Career numbers aren't really a valid metric for comparing someone whose first start was in 1998 with someone whose first start was in 2001, but I'd take career winning percentage, career playoff winning percentage, career Superbowls, most supermodels impregnated, and most awesome human alive over all that stuff you just said. Throw in the touchdown record and it's not even close.

Wow, some dude who plays football for your favorite team is now the greatest person on Earth! Good stuff!

Not necessarily. He may have been the greatest person on Earth before he started playing football for my favorite team. It's a chicken or egg argument, which is far more interesting than the current debate. As a tangent, though, I strongly believe that the egg came first. From an evolutionary standpoint, the egg that contained the first chicken was clearly an egg. But the thing that laid that egg was decidedly non-chicken. It was some kind of pre-chicken ancestor that laid an egg containing a mutant. If you believe in creation, the argument could go either way - God could have created the egg, or created the chicken. So we're looking at 100% if you're an evolutionist, and 50/50 if you're a creationist, which at worst means it's roughly 75/25 in favor of egg. Much like the results of this poll - at best, you could say the two were equal, but most people would agree that Brady is better. Hence him being ahead roughly 75/25.

 

[pizzatyme]

There are really very few metrics left for Manning fans to use to claim he's as good as Brady. It's got to be tough watching another one fall. If this thread helps in the grieving process, then I wish you all the best and a very merry Christmas.

Except for career completion percentage, career TD percentage, career yards per attempt and per completion, yards per game, passer rating (if you're into that kind of thing), and TDs per game, and of a course an enormous lead in all the career total categories, he's pretty much got nothing left.PS yes, I know you were fishing. I'm just killing time.

PS#2 no, I'm not saying any of the above necessarily means Manning is better than Brady.

For shame. Career numbers aren't really a valid metric for comparing someone whose first start was in 1998 with someone whose first start was in 2001, but I'd take career winning percentage, career playoff winning percentage, career Superbowls, most supermodels impregnated, and most awesome human alive over all that stuff you just said. Throw in the touchdown record and it's not even close.

Wow, some dude who plays football for your favorite team is now the greatest person on Earth! Good stuff!

Not necessarily. He may have been the greatest person on Earth before he started playing football for my favorite team. It's a chicken or egg argument, which is far more interesting than the current debate. As a tangent, though, I strongly believe that the egg came first. From an evolutionary standpoint, the egg that contained the first chicken was clearly an egg. But the thing that laid that egg was decidedly non-chicken. It was some kind of pre-chicken ancestor that laid an egg containing a mutant. If you believe in creation, the argument could go either way - God could have created the egg, or created the chicken. So we're looking at 100% if you're an evolutionist, and 50/50 if you're a creationist, which at worst means it's roughly 75/25 in favor of egg. Much like the results of this poll - at best, you could say the two were equal, but most people would agree that Brady is better. Hence him being ahead roughly 75/25.

Yes, since this board is frequented by an equal number of Colts and Patriots supporters.

 

[bostonfred]

There are really very few metrics left for Manning fans to use to claim he's as good as Brady. It's got to be tough watching another one fall. If this thread helps in the grieving process, then I wish you all the best and a very merry Christmas.

Except for career completion percentage, career TD percentage, career yards per attempt and per completion, yards per game, passer rating (if you're into that kind of thing), and TDs per game, and of a course an enormous lead in all the career total categories, he's pretty much got nothing left.PS yes, I know you were fishing. I'm just killing time.

PS#2 no, I'm not saying any of the above necessarily means Manning is better than Brady.

For shame. Career numbers aren't really a valid metric for comparing someone whose first start was in 1998 with someone whose first start was in 2001, but I'd take career winning percentage, career playoff winning percentage, career Superbowls, most supermodels impregnated, and most awesome human alive over all that stuff you just said. Throw in the touchdown record and it's not even close.

Wow, some dude who plays football for your favorite team is now the greatest person on Earth! Good stuff!

Not necessarily. He may have been the greatest person on Earth before he started playing football for my favorite team. It's a chicken or egg argument, which is far more interesting than the current debate. As a tangent, though, I strongly believe that the egg came first. From an evolutionary standpoint, the egg that contained the first chicken was clearly an egg. But the thing that laid that egg was decidedly non-chicken. It was some kind of pre-chicken ancestor that laid an egg containing a mutant. If you believe in creation, the argument could go either way - God could have created the egg, or created the chicken. So we're looking at 100% if you're an evolutionist, and 50/50 if you're a creationist, which at worst means it's roughly 75/25 in favor of egg. Much like the results of this poll - at best, you could say the two were equal, but most people would agree that Brady is better. Hence him being ahead roughly 75/25.

Yes, since this board is frequented by an equal number of Colts and Patriots supporters.

Remember what happened last time you rolled your eyes at me? I'm pretty sure it was when you said that there was no way the Pats would be favored at Indy. I don't think you're allowed to roll your eyes at me anymore. Link

 

[pizzatyme]

There are really very few metrics left for Manning fans to use to claim he's as good as Brady. It's got to be tough watching another one fall. If this thread helps in the grieving process, then I wish you all the best and a very merry Christmas.

Except for career completion percentage, career TD percentage, career yards per attempt and per completion, yards per game, passer rating (if you're into that kind of thing), and TDs per game, and of a course an enormous lead in all the career total categories, he's pretty much got nothing left.PS yes, I know you were fishing. I'm just killing time.

PS#2 no, I'm not saying any of the above necessarily means Manning is better than Brady.

For shame. Career numbers aren't really a valid metric for comparing someone whose first start was in 1998 with someone whose first start was in 2001, but I'd take career winning percentage, career playoff winning percentage, career Superbowls, most supermodels impregnated, and most awesome human alive over all that stuff you just said. Throw in the touchdown record and it's not even close.

Wow, some dude who plays football for your favorite team is now the greatest person on Earth! Good stuff!

Not necessarily. He may have been the greatest person on Earth before he started playing football for my favorite team. It's a chicken or egg argument, which is far more interesting than the current debate. As a tangent, though, I strongly believe that the egg came first. From an evolutionary standpoint, the egg that contained the first chicken was clearly an egg. But the thing that laid that egg was decidedly non-chicken. It was some kind of pre-chicken ancestor that laid an egg containing a mutant. If you believe in creation, the argument could go either way - God could have created the egg, or created the chicken. So we're looking at 100% if you're an evolutionist, and 50/50 if you're a creationist, which at worst means it's roughly 75/25 in favor of egg. Much like the results of this poll - at best, you could say the two were equal, but most people would agree that Brady is better. Hence him being ahead roughly 75/25.

Yes, since this board is frequented by an equal number of Colts and Patriots supporters.

Remember what happened last time you rolled your eyes at me? I'm pretty sure it was when you said that there was no way the Pats would be favored at Indy. I don't think you're allowed to roll your eyes at me anymore. Link

Yes, you were spot on there. However, this doesn't make you all-knowing. So, why not try to be less of a tool about it?TIA

 

[Footballg]

Thanks for the post. But, by the responses, I don't seem to be alone in my thinking.

If poll results of 3 out of 4 against your opinion aren't convincing.... Merry Christmas, and good luck to the Colts in the real season.

Check your math.

I'm still waiting on the answer to this math quiz. Just tell us, please.

 

[pizzatyme]

Thanks for the post. But, by the responses, I don't seem to be alone in my thinking.

If poll results of 3 out of 4 against your opinion aren't convincing.... Merry Christmas, and good luck to the Colts in the real season.

Check your math.

I'm still waiting on the answer to this math quiz. Just tell us, please.

Buhbye :wave:

 

[bostonfred]

On October 8th, I offered you a chance to call off the bet. Eleven days later, you asked me to let you out of the bet. Five days after that, you decided to call it off yourself. And now you have the audacity to say I'm being a tool about it? I said before that I would have given it to charity. You waited until the last minute to back out of it because you realized you were going to lose. I can post the PMs if you want.

I didn't say a thing about it then, and my only comment in the thread was that it looks like it wasn't such a laughable statement after all, but I won't abide by you calling me a tool for anything related to that bet. You have no moral high ground on this one.

 

[pizzatyme]

On October 8th, I offered you a chance to call off the bet. Eleven days later, you asked me to let you out of the bet. Five days after that, you decided to call it off yourself. And now you have the audacity to say I'm being a tool about it? I said before that I would have given it to charity. You waited until the last minute to back out of it because you realized you were going to lose. I can post the PMs if you want. I didn't say a thing about it then, and my only comment in the thread was that it looks like it wasn't such a laughable statement after all, but I won't abide by you calling me a tool for anything related to that bet. You have no moral high ground on this one.

Yes, please post PMs. I told you it was your choice, after you offer to call it off. You didn't respond. I waited 5 days for that response. Since, you didn't respond, I made the call myself.Maybe I didn't visit the board for 11 days? You offered to call it off, I did so since you didn't respond to me.And, the tool comment was for you playing God and telling me if I can question your statements upon this board.Yes, to me, that is being a tool.

 

[jasonbay]

a record is a record, but what about Rice's 22 in 12 compared to if Moss breaks that <whatever he finishes with> in 16? your thoughts on that, Rice had a average of 1.83 td per game.. if he continued on that pace he would of had 29. I mean Brady and Peyton avg per game are going to be similar, but let's just say Moss catches 2 to give him a record of 23, that'd be 1.43 compared, would you not say that's a fairly big gap? or is my logic flawed?

 

[bostonfred]

On October 8th, I offered you a chance to call off the bet. Eleven days later, you asked me to let you out of the bet. Five days after that, you decided to call it off yourself. And now you have the audacity to say I'm being a tool about it? I said before that I would have given it to charity. You waited until the last minute to back out of it because you realized you were going to lose. I can post the PMs if you want. I didn't say a thing about it then, and my only comment in the thread was that it looks like it wasn't such a laughable statement after all, but I won't abide by you calling me a tool for anything related to that bet. You have no moral high ground on this one.

Yes, please post PMs. I told you it was your choice, right after you offer to call it off. You didn't respond. I waited 11 days for that response. Since, you didn't respond, I made the call myself.Maybe you didn't visit the board for 11 days? Seems like there was enough chances for you to come to the board to defend your beloved Patriots over an 11 day span, no?And, the tool comment was for you playing God and telling me if I can question your statements upon this board.Yes, to me, that is being a tool.

We can call this off now, if you want. It's going to be tough enough to police this bet, since all it takes is one book to favor the Pats, or one book to put the Pats on the moneyline, for one of us to at least make an argument. Or if you want we can have the loser give it to charity.

I'm all for giving money to charity. I'm okay calling it off. But I will say that when Dallas blows up Buffalo tonight, I'm not sure that NE will be favored next week, let alone in Indy if both are undefeated.I'll let you make the call there. I'm good either way.

I gave you an out. You didn't take it. I had no interest in chasing you down, so I let it stand. Then two weeks later, you pop up with this.

BF,Seems like the wise thing to do is cancel this thing. I'll leave it up to you however.Russ~

You're the one who took eleven days. I offered you a chance to back out on October 8th. You didn't decide you wanted to call it off until October 19th, because you had decided that it was "the wise thing to do" once you realized you were going to lose.

Since you don't have the courtesy to respond to my PM or questions within the thread we made the bet, I am calling it off.

It took you five days to decide to call it off yourself. I was out of the country on business when you cancelled the bet, while watching the Red Sox win the World Series, and by the way getting ready to get married on November 3rd, the day before the game, so I was a little busy. If you check my posting history, it went down dramatically right around then. I had one post on October 19th, in the ALCS thread. I posted a couple more times on three days later, but by then, the board software wouldn't have popped it up as a new message. So to recap, I offered you a chance to back out on the 8th. You said you were fine either way. No further conversation, the bet's still on. Eleven days later, it looks like you're going to lose, and you decide it's the wise thing to do to call it off. I don't get back to you quickly enough, so you call it off yourself, and get an attitude with me to boot. I don't know how you can be on such a high horse when it has no legs to stand on.

 

[phthalatemagic]

And, the tool comment was for you playing God and telling me if I can question your statements upon this board.Yes, to me, that is being a tool.

 

[PsychoMan]

I'm more impressed with the guy that did it in fewer games, but a record is a record, and soon enough, Brady's name will replace Manning's in the books.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Here's a novel take on the situation...

I don't care and have nothing but contempt for the passing record, at least in terms of what it's become.

I'll be happy to see Brady, Moss et.al. with the "records" but what's really going on here is taking advantage of systematic over-protection of QBs and WRs due to the lobbying efforts of Bill Polian and other GMs and owners who've been trying to crack the Patriots dominance this decade by creating unfair advantage in the passing game. So what does NE do? Acquires Moss, Welker, Stallworth, Washington, etc. and abandons the running game, not because they can't run, but because its a waste of time.

There's been a lot of talk about karma in the shark pool over the past few months, which is ironic, because karma is basically over-reliance on habituated patterns. Some teams decided they needed to protect the passing game [over-reliance on habituated patterns] to blunt NE's dominance, and created some BS rules through the competition committee, and now New England is passing the ball down everyone's throats.

What are these rules you speak of? Link?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2005Jan10.html

Thanks, that article speaks of having the officials enfore existing rules. So, where is the link to new rules?

They are new rules because they were not strictly enforced prior to the Colts and other teams lobbying the rules committee after the 2003 season. SeniorVBDStudent's point is correct - we can thank the Colts for creating an environment where it is much easier to pass than it was just a few years ago. Jaworski says it right in the middle of the article. Kind of ironic that the Pats are now taking advantage of it.

Jaworski's comments:"There's no doubt about it; it's had a tremendous effect," said Ron Jaworski, a former NFL quarterback turned ESPN commentator. "I certainly wouldn't want to be a cornerback or a safety in this league right now. In the next five years, every single passing record in this league won't just be broken, they'll all be shattered."

Now I like Jaws, but he's certainly not a prophet. How is it then that he was so accurately able to predict the future? Obviously, it's because what Bill Polian and others orchestrated through the competition committee was blatently advantageous to a pass-oriented offense, and now they get to reap what they sow.

 

[Buttmonkey]

The real record: Brady 3 - Manning 1

If you want to judge as to who is better, that's all that needs to be said.

Brady > Manning

 

[Colin Dowling]

The real record: Brady 3 - Manning 1If you want to judge as to who is better, that's all that needs to be said. Brady > Manning

3 Super Bowl wins is a record? I didn't know that.

 

[MDSkinner]

I may be wrong but I would guess that many years from now people will not remember that Manning had the record in 15 games plus 1 series.

So if you are asking will it mean less to fans that Brady will be doing it in 16 games as opposed to 15 plus 1 series, I think the answer is no. I think people will not remember that years from now. This year, perhaps it will mean slightly less, in the long run not at all.

 

[pizzatyme]

Here's a novel take on the situation...

I don't care and have nothing but contempt for the passing record, at least in terms of what it's become.

I'll be happy to see Brady, Moss et.al. with the "records" but what's really going on here is taking advantage of systematic over-protection of QBs and WRs due to the lobbying efforts of Bill Polian and other GMs and owners who've been trying to crack the Patriots dominance this decade by creating unfair advantage in the passing game. So what does NE do? Acquires Moss, Welker, Stallworth, Washington, etc. and abandons the running game, not because they can't run, but because its a waste of time.

There's been a lot of talk about karma in the shark pool over the past few months, which is ironic, because karma is basically over-reliance on habituated patterns. Some teams decided they needed to protect the passing game [over-reliance on habituated patterns] to blunt NE's dominance, and created some BS rules through the competition committee, and now New England is passing the ball down everyone's throats.

What are these rules you speak of? Link?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2005Jan10.html

Thanks, that article speaks of having the officials enfore existing rules. So, where is the link to new rules?

They are new rules because they were not strictly enforced prior to the Colts and other teams lobbying the rules committee after the 2003 season. SeniorVBDStudent's point is correct - we can thank the Colts for creating an environment where it is much easier to pass than it was just a few years ago. Jaworski says it right in the middle of the article. Kind of ironic that the Pats are now taking advantage of it.

Jaworski's comments:"There's no doubt about it; it's had a tremendous effect," said Ron Jaworski, a former NFL quarterback turned ESPN commentator. "I certainly wouldn't want to be a cornerback or a safety in this league right now. In the next five years, every single passing record in this league won't just be broken, they'll all be shattered."

Now I like Jaws, but he's certainly not a prophet. How is it then that he was so accurately able to predict the future? Obviously, it's because what Bill Polian and others orchestrated through the competition committee was blatently advantageous to a pass-oriented offense, and now they get to reap what they sow.

Honestly, I'm good with that. I think Brady deserves the accolades. They've had one hell of a season. There is nothing wrong with him having some records to his name. I was just curious if it meant anything different since it is apples and oranges in reality. Over time, it will not matter, I understand that. I was asking for this year.I'm good with the Colts getting beat by a better team. Especially when it happens with the rules being enforced correctly.

 

[PsychoMan]

The real record: Brady 3 - Manning 1If you want to judge as to who is better, that's all that needs to be said. Brady > Manning

All that shows is that Brady's teams have been better than Mannings.

 

[DropKick]

Is Brady's 49+ even more impessive since he plays in an outdoor stadium in the Northeast and Manning plays his home games in a dome?

Not really. In 2004 Manning tossed 8 TDs in December. Brady has 9 in Dec. Both have played 4 games.

Of course really.Fact=Throwing the ball inside in a controlled environ is easier than throwing it outside.

Fact=Throwing the ball inside or in good weather outside is MUCH, MUCH easier than throwing it outside in bad weather.

Those facts are indisputable and if you look at the HUGE, HUGE advantage Manning had in playing conditions it seems rather obvious that what Brady has done is even more impressive.

To each his own.

Fair enough. BTW, do you have a link to the studies of those "undisputable facts"? I'd like to read up on them. TIA

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap?game_i...p;override=trueHere's your link. It's one of many examples that can be found of NFL games affected by weather conditions. Of course, we both know you don't need the internet as a substitute for common sense... don't we?

If Brady breaks the season record.... well... then he has the most TD passes in a season. (duh?)

If you would like to hold onto the "most TD passes thrown through 15 games mark"... well be my guest.

As far as most impressive... well, that is subjective but my vote goes to Dan Marino's 1984 season. 48 TDs and over 5,000 yards in his first year as a full time starter.

I'm pretty sure I can find examples of outdoor games not affected by weather as well. In your argument above, you proposed that ALL outdoor games are tougher to throw in than ALL indoor games. I don't believe that to be true.

Why don't you focus on one small task at a time? Start with finding examples of indoor games affected by weather.

While this is true, I would also say that playing indoors gives the defense a distinct advantage as well. When playing outdoors, the offense has the advantage in adverse conditions since the WRs know their routes and the defense has to adjust. While playing indoors, on perfect footing, the defense is usually able to react much more quickly.Or would you disagree to that? I know many players, both current and past, have mentioned that bad weather helps the offense.

I would agree Terrible weather helps noone and especially when compared to playing in a dome. However, how many games this year or in Brady's career has he had to play in Terrible weather?

Again (no surprise).. not a single example of weather conditions affecting the game planning or execution of an indoor game. Why are you avoiding the question? Oh, thats right.. even though anyone with an IQ above a pencil is well aware that dome play is more conducive to offense than the cold, wind, rain, snow or mud conditions inherent outdoors, you won't admit it only because it doesn't help your argument. Terrible weather games this season for Brady? Off the top of my head at least two; the Ravens and the Jets. There were other games when wind conditions were enough of a factor to be aware that you playing with the wind or against it. Thats just over 13% of his games this season and that seems pretty consistent with his career.

How about Manning?