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Manny / Hermida / Jason Bay trade (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter wilked
- Start date
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Just trying to keep up with the nerd who swallowed the official MLB book of stats.
(that's how you do the thumbs up thingy)Bay is worse offensively than Manny, but I'm in no mood to do the math for the linears. Off the top of my head I'd say he gives back all the his glove makes up for it. Really it looks like a wash with the bat.Maybe not. I need to go find the league difficulty factors for this year, and look closer at baserunning. Worst case scenario is a wash, best case scenario is maybe a full win better.
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wilked
Footballguy
Time to relive some fave Manny moments
This is a big one, maybe the biggest for me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0_f1fYkllo
This is a big one, maybe the biggest for me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0_f1fYkllo
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I
ianfitzy
Guest
I'm going to have to say no to this one. Have you ever heard of Ted Williams?Manny is the best Sox hitter I've ever seen, maybe the best, period. I'll be sorry to see him go.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
But maybe he's never seen him.I'm going to have to say no to this one. Have you ever heard of Ted Williams?
I
ianfitzy
Guest
Maybe... The way I took it was Manny was the best Sox hitter he had ever seen and maybe the best Red Sox hitter period. If he means he is the best hitter he has ever seen then this makes a lot more sense.But maybe he's never seen him.I'm going to have to say no to this one. Have you ever heard of Ted Williams?
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
So what time does the used car salesman get into work in the morning?
MrJimmy
Footballguy
The first season I remember watching was 1968. Never actually saw Ted play.You got any better Sox hitters since '68? And Manny has to be on a very short list for best hitters in baseball during that span.Maybe... The way I took it was Manny was the best Sox hitter he had ever seen and maybe the best Red Sox hitter period. If he means he is the best hitter he has ever seen then this makes a lot more sense.But maybe he's never seen him.I'm going to have to say no to this one. Have you ever heard of Ted Williams?Manny is the best Sox hitter I've ever seen, maybe the best, period. I'll be sorry to see him go.
Darth Cheney
Footballguy
Wasn't it wilked who a couple of years ago was celebrating the defensive prowess of ManRam? Bay can't play the Monstah the way ManRam can.
Knightro
Footballguy
Selig is going to have to sign off on it because of the money involved. One source has it where all the players are traded AND Boston is paying Manny's salary for the rest of this year. With that much money flowing in the deal, Selig has to sign off (anything over 1m requires his approval).
Darth Cheney
Footballguy
If Manny goes..... I'll be dancing like the Munchkins did when Dorothy dropped a house on that witch.
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
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Insoxicated
osted by Jayson Stark
Here's what I know about the status of this deal, as of this morning:
• An official of one of these three teams placed the odds of this getting done today at "50-50."
• Multiple sources have said that outfield prospect Mike Stanton is not in this trade, although Boston asked for him and Pittsburgh has been insisting on a prospect of his caliber, in addition to Jeremy Hermida and other prospects.
• Despite reports that left-handed reliever John Grabow would wind up in Boston, indications are that he would actually go to the Marlins if this trade gets done.
• The status of Marlins pitcher Ryan Tucker (recently sent back to the minor leagues to be converted to the bullpen) remains uncertain. Tucker, according to a baseball man who has spoken to the teams involved, is still a name that's "in play."
Here's what I know about the status of this deal, as of this morning:
• An official of one of these three teams placed the odds of this getting done today at "50-50."
• Multiple sources have said that outfield prospect Mike Stanton is not in this trade, although Boston asked for him and Pittsburgh has been insisting on a prospect of his caliber, in addition to Jeremy Hermida and other prospects.
• Despite reports that left-handed reliever John Grabow would wind up in Boston, indications are that he would actually go to the Marlins if this trade gets done.
• The status of Marlins pitcher Ryan Tucker (recently sent back to the minor leagues to be converted to the bullpen) remains uncertain. Tucker, according to a baseball man who has spoken to the teams involved, is still a name that's "in play."
pollardsvision
Footballguy
as a rays fan, obviously i'd rather the sox dump manny without gettting bay in return (especially when the rays could really use him).
that said, i could see bay's production slipping a bit if he goes to boston.
he's having as good a season as manny, if not better, and he's a better defender.
the trouble is that he's never played a meaningful MLB game in his life, much less heated september games in yankee stadium (or in front the rabid crowd at the trop). there's no way to know how he'll react to a playoff race in a new league combined with the pressure of replacing manny ramirez.
still, given the situation, it'd be a nice get for the sox.
that said, i could see bay's production slipping a bit if he goes to boston.
he's having as good a season as manny, if not better, and he's a better defender.
the trouble is that he's never played a meaningful MLB game in his life, much less heated september games in yankee stadium (or in front the rabid crowd at the trop). there's no way to know how he'll react to a playoff race in a new league combined with the pressure of replacing manny ramirez.
still, given the situation, it'd be a nice get for the sox.
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Insoxicated
I'm of the opinion that this is a net wash defensively and thereby a downgrade overall for boston. Manny may flounder at times out there but he can play that wall very well, typically pulling balls down barehanded either off the wall or on one hop and firing them, usually quite accurately, within a half second or so to the desired base. Last year manny was one of (if not the) league leaders in assists from the outfield due to his strong arm and ability to field balls very cleanly off the monster. I'm not sure how well that's represented in the defensive stats.
[icon]
Insoxicated
This could be said about every single player on the Marlins roster.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
As I've said, he's my favorite player in baseball not in a Yankee uniform. I will love to see him out of the East though. If this gets done, this is a really interesting deal from a lot of aspects, not the least of which is that we have a superstar stud that has basically dogged it to get traded and it worked. I'm sure it's happened before, but I can't remember off the top of my head a player of this caliber doing it. Wonder if it will have any impact on Red Sox future negotiations, or league wide for that matter.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
And if this happens, can the Marlins sell out some games?
blackjack23
Footballguy
Finally, someone telling the truth.
Jefferson the Caregiver
Rebel Without A Pause
On the other hand, Bay will have a better lineup around him. You can spin the meaningful games both ways. Yeah, there's more pressure, some people thrive on it though and it brings out their A game.I don't doubt Bay gets a big boost just by the crowd at Fenway and the fact that the games count for something, I bet he flourishes, not flounders.
Jefferson the Caregiver
Rebel Without A Pause
Who's not telling the truth? Is anyone denying Bay is a downgrade from Manny overall?I think most of us here are just thinking if we get anyone back, we could do a lot worse than Bay.If I thought this was going to blow over next week, I wouldn't want a trade, its obviously not a good situation though.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
true, which means that no matter how this turns out, the red sox will be worse off than they were yesterday.but i guess that's what happens when a crazy guy suddenly decides that the best way to position himself for a big contract is to play somewhere besides for the defending world champions.This could be said about every single player on the Marlins roster.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
maybe he does. like i said, there's really no way to know.i've always liked bay as a player and if it were any team besides the red sox (or yanks), i'd be rooting for him to succeed.
blackjack23
Footballguy
Jefferson the Caregiver
Rebel Without A Pause
No, not really. You are only reading what you want.Its a bad situation. Wilked, as a Sox fan, is just reiterating the positives. Nobody would want a trade of Bay for Manny in a normal situation but this situation has deteriorated, it is not normal. All I see Wilked saying is its not that bad, which is pretty much where I am on this as well (if it happens).
[icon]
Insoxicated
So if boston trades manny they're worse off but if nothing happens they're still worse off?true, which means that no matter how this turns out, the red sox will be worse off than they were yesterday.This could be said about every single player on the Marlins roster.
And what does this have to do with the complete inexperience of the Rays squad in the postseason? I love how you mention it as a drawback for bay but dismiss it for the entire Rays rosters
Take off the homer glasses, kid.
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If someone could assure me that Jason Bay's knee will be 100% next year, that's a pretty nice deal for the Sox.
In no way am I saying that Bay is near the hitter that Manny Ramirez is, but considering Bay has yet to reach 30, and consistently puts up 100 rbi, 100 run years on the absolute worst team in the majors, well that bodes decently for the future. Plus, you are paring 15 million/year in payroll to address other needs.
I'd rather have Ramirez for the rest of this year. But, I'd rather have Bay over the next 5 years.
Of course, the knee is a potential issue.
In no way am I saying that Bay is near the hitter that Manny Ramirez is, but considering Bay has yet to reach 30, and consistently puts up 100 rbi, 100 run years on the absolute worst team in the majors, well that bodes decently for the future. Plus, you are paring 15 million/year in payroll to address other needs.
I'd rather have Ramirez for the rest of this year. But, I'd rather have Bay over the next 5 years.
Of course, the knee is a potential issue.
Alias
Footballguy
Manny is the better hitter (38.1 VORP vs 33.5 VORP)
Bay is the better defender (+4 UZR vs -20 UZR)
RC WS OPS Name
70 15 .932 Ramirez
75 19 .900 Bay
Intangibles
$12.5 MM less then Manny
the Manny distraction will be removed allowing the Sox to focus on the task at hand
I think this is the best the FO can hope for, it is not as bad as people are making it out to be.
Bay is the better defender (+4 UZR vs -20 UZR)
RC WS OPS Name
70 15 .932 Ramirez
75 19 .900 Bay
Intangibles
$12.5 MM less then Manny
the Manny distraction will be removed allowing the Sox to focus on the task at hand
I think this is the best the FO can hope for, it is not as bad as people are making it out to be.
Darth Cheney
Footballguy
I understand that the numbers work out for Boston....and that Bay..statistically isn't too far from ManRam. I just don't see Bay being able to do to half as much that Manny did in the past in clutch situation. I know the statgeeks don't like clutch (AWHHHPP SIR, SIR, IF YOU TAKE THE NUMERICAL COSIGN OF THE NUMBER OF AT BATS AND DIVIDE IT BY HIS SHOE SIDE WHILE KEEPING IN MIND THAT PLUTO WILL BE IN LINE WITH VENUS DURING THE PLAYOFFS AND YOU WILL DEFINITELY SEE THAT SCIENCE AND MATHEMATICS HAVE PROVEN CLUTCH TO BE A FALSE IDEA!!!.....AWHHHHHP) but I've seen Manny play. He's money in tight situations.
blackjack23
Footballguy
Nobody is saying its that bad. All Im saying as a Yankee fan is I am so glad to see Manny go.
greedygoat
Footballguy
Luis Gonzalez down?This could be said about every single player on the Marlins roster.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
This was the first year I became an "anti-Manny" guy. He's been absolutely incredible to watch, but the "Manny being Manny" stuff this season has been much worse than any other. Bay is a solid player, and frankly he's more than I thought the Sox could get for him at this point.
I'm fine if he stays, fine if he goes. It's probably a downgrade, but he's been ridiculous this year, especially pushing down a 65 year old man, and I'm just not desperate anymore.
I really don't look at defensive baseball stats, so I could be way off, but I've always thought Manny was an above average fielder at Fenway. I just think he knows how to play that wall really well. He's pretty scary on the road though.
I'm fine if he stays, fine if he goes. It's probably a downgrade, but he's been ridiculous this year, especially pushing down a 65 year old man, and I'm just not desperate anymore.
I really don't look at defensive baseball stats, so I could be way off, but I've always thought Manny was an above average fielder at Fenway. I just think he knows how to play that wall really well. He's pretty scary on the road though.
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
I agree.I would like to see who the prospect is coming with Bay.
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
Manny wigged out after 8 years in Cleveland,
now he wigs out again after 8 years in Boston.
I'll gladly take Jason Bay, he has almost identical
offensive numbers as Manny this season, plus
he's 7 years younger than ManRam.
do it.
now he wigs out again after 8 years in Boston.
I'll gladly take Jason Bay, he has almost identical
offensive numbers as Manny this season, plus
he's 7 years younger than ManRam.
do it.
Reaper
Footballguy
While somewhat true - Listening to talk radio at lunch it sounded like Mets fans were the loudest and worrying the most.....Funny how the hosts and Mets fans seem to think Manny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BayNot even a question. I'm sure they know Bay a lot more than Sox or Yankee fans.IMO throw all the stats out - Manny is INSANE at crunch time. In many people's opinion the most INSANE clutch hitter ever.
Tremendous Upside
Footballguy
Well he's insane, I'll give you that...
=Smackdown=
Footballguy
For once we agree on something.I've seen him bash the Yankees silly over the years - I do not want that happening to my Mets.
Edit to add because it needs to be said again - Bay ain't no Manny - not even close - i don't care how you compare their numbers this year.
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Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/spli...p;type=batting3Look at the close/late stats.For once we agree on something.
I've seen him bash the Yankees silly over the years - I do not want that happening to my Mets.
Edit to add because it needs to be said again - Bay ain't no Manny - not even close - i don't care how you compare their numbers this year.
They suck.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
you completely misinterpreted the meaning of that. there is no "good" in this situation for the sox, assuming anybody they get will not be able to provide what manny does on the field. on the baseball field, boston will not be better off from this.(and i never said i think boston would be worse off if nothing happens.)[icon] said:So if boston trades manny they're worse off but if nothing happens they're still worse off?pollardsvision said:true, which means that no matter how this turns out, the red sox will be worse off than they were yesterday.[icon] said:This could be said about every single player on the Marlins roster.pollardsvision said:
And what does this have to do with the complete inexperience of the Rays squad in the postseason? I love how you mention it as a drawback for bay but dismiss it for the entire Rays rosters
Take off the homer glasses, kid.
when have i ever dismissed the lack playoff experience for the rays?
i'm pretty pessimistic about their chances of actually making the playoffs.
Reaper
Footballguy
It hasn't been Close OR Late yet.http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/spli...p;type=batting3Look at the close/late stats.For once we agree on something.
I've seen him bash the Yankees silly over the years - I do not want that happening to my Mets.
Edit to add because it needs to be said again - Bay ain't no Manny - not even close - i don't care how you compare their numbers this year.
They suck.
Talk to me in October.
Kraft...
Footballguy
totally dead?
Jefferson the Caregiver
Rebel Without A Pause
Just posturing, the deal is going down, who's bluff gets called is the only question here.They already got Manny to sign off on it, there is absolutely no way he is back in Boston.
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
WEEI just reported.
DEAL is DEAD.
Pittsburgh is now negotiating with Tampa Bay.
DEAL is DEAD.
Pittsburgh is now negotiating with Tampa Bay.
Finless
Footballguy
You're wrong. I know people. There's other things going on I don't have the liberty of discussing. May post an update in my blog later.
Wrigley
Footballguy
Per Rotoworld
