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Maricopa County Recount: Nightmare or Farce? (4 Viewers)

timschochet said:
Obviously part of it is Trump. 
 

But part of it is based on a deeper fear, especially in Arizona. Arizona has been a red state forever. Suddenly they’re voting blue. Main reason is more liberals in the suburbs, but to certain people there’s a more insidious reason: minority becoming the majority. It’s the same fear that got Trump elected in the first place. 
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there you go again.  We are afraid of brown & black overtaking white people so we voted for a white guy Trump over a white woman.  I thought you recently said you were not responsible for comments such as this?

well, it's not true & ad nauseum times 90.

so so so tired of this.

 
quick-hands said:
Yea.   The integrity of our elections.   We dont have money for that.   Lol.  
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The integrity of the election was fine...security was fine.

Pretty much everyone outside of Trump and his supporters agree to that...it has been shown by those who actually oversee elections.  It stood up to numerous lawsuits and tremendous scrutiny.

The election was secure and legitimate.  That isn't opinion...its a fact at this point.

 
Amused to Death said:
shadrap said:
think it's the largest county in the State.
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Are we only concerned about election integrity in large counties? Remember the mantra "count every legal vote".
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However you are correct. Its the most populated county in AZ by a margin of 4 to 1. And one Trump happened to lose in a state that went for Biden. Strange that that's the one and only county AZ Trump supporting GOP is concerned with. And only the top of the ticket.

 
Amused to Death said:
The nightmare is that they're giving a third party company control of the ballots and the machines. Who's overseeing the chain of custody? 
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Just some Trumpsters...what could go wrong?  It's not like they aren't constantly getting arrested or screwing things up.

 
So to recap, no deleted databases.

The allegation of deleted data was first raised last week by the auditors and amplified by Trump.

Maricopa County officials responded with fury, denying they deleted any data, which would be illegal, and accusing the auditors of incompetence in not being able to locate the data. On Monday they released a detailed explanation saying auditors didn’t know how the county’s databases were configured, a problem they said would create the error messages auditors received.

Cotton described for senators on Tuesday how he recovered the data, a process that aligned with the county’s explanation, saying everything was accounted for.

Gilbertson of the county Elections Department said the agency stands by its analysis and the directory was never deleted.

 
shadrap said:
there you go again.  We are afraid of brown & black overtaking white people so we voted for a white guy Trump over a white woman.  I thought you recently said you were not responsible for comments such as this?

well, it's not true & ad nauseum times 90.

so so so tired of this.
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They gaslight for a reason - repeat a lie often enough and enough people will come to believe it.  They've succeeded with the help of the MSM.

Think of this:  The party that fought FOR slavery, implemented Jim Crowe and founded the KKK has managed to convince millions of black people to vote for them.  They didn't get those votes because they said THEY were the racists - they simply said it was "the other guys" and repeatedly.  I mean, you have to give them credit for succeeding beyond their wildest expectations.  

 
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Amused to Death said:
"Ted Cruz didn't win Iowa, he stole it. That is why all of the polls were so wrong and why he got far more votes than anticipated. Bad!" - Donald Trump after the 2016 Iowa caucus. 

Its been 4 1/2 years - what has Iowa done to "secure" its elections? Or are they still cheating in Iowa? Or maybe, just maybe....Trump was making baseless accusations? 
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Let us all not forget (as hard as the Trump right would like too) that Trump himself hand picked and put together a voter fraud commission after his win to look into all the 2016 "fraud" he claimed.  What came of that again?  Oh yeah absolutely nothing, it disbanded after 6 months of not finding a thing. 

 
shadrap said:
there you go again.  We are afraid of brown & black overtaking white people so we voted for a white guy Trump over a white woman.  I thought you recently said you were not responsible for comments such as this?

well, it's not true & ad nauseum times 90.

so so so tired of this.
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I wrote before, amd I continue to assert, that a significant part of the reason that Trump was elected in the first place was because of white fears of losing the majority. That’s not something I made up; it’s based on poll after poll of 2016, study after study. It certainly doesn’t apply to every Trump voter, and I will take your word that it doesn’t apply to you. But it’s certainly a huge factor, no matter how many times you deny it, no matter how tired you are of hearing it. 

 
Amused to Death said:
"Ted Cruz didn't win Iowa, he stole it. That is why all of the polls were so wrong and why he got far more votes than anticipated. Bad!" - Donald Trump after the 2016 Iowa caucus. 

Its been 4 1/2 years - what has Iowa done to "secure" its elections? Or are they still cheating in Iowa? Or maybe, just maybe....Trump was making baseless accusations? 
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The second best President ever making baseless accusations? Get outta here 😂. 

 
Zow said:
They audited Maricopa and other counties which didn't turn up anything substantive. So now basically the county hired an openly pro-Trump group to do yet another review of the most populated county. Local election officials are pissed.
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Direct Headline: Report: Arizona has ‘substantive deficiencies’ in post-election audit laws

Two nonprofits recommend removing party authority over audits and requiring risk-limiting audits after every election

By Cole Lauterbach Feb 3, 2021

https://www.thecentersquare.com/arizona/report-arizona-has-substantive-deficiencies-in-post-election-audit-laws/article_415e544e-666f-11eb-9828-b76e4404d45e.html

Direct Headline: Are risk-limiting audits the golden ticket to preventing draconian election recounts?

Algorithm-generated process heralded as way to reform vote verification

By Hollie McKay 11/3/2020

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/are-risk-limiting-audits-the-golden-ticket-to-preventing-a-draconian-election-recount

Direct Headline:  Maricopa County Officials Refusing to Turn Over Routers to Auditors

By Sandy Fitzgerald    Friday, 07 May 2021 11:39 AM

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/maricopa-county-auditors-2020-election/2021/05/07/id/1020526/

Direct Headline: Mega-Donor George Soros Began Targeting Arizona and Georgia Elections in 2015

Posted Tuesday, November 27, 2018

https://amac.us/mega-donor-george-soros-began-targeting-arizona-and-georgia-elections-in-2015/

*******

Maricopa County did multiple hand recounts. They are not required by law to do Risk Limiting Audits. Georgia was required by it's own election laws to do RLAs, and Brad Raffensperger didn't do it ( Of course he didn't do it, his hybrid recount would only find missing votes against a hard tally ( i.e. they ended up finding some thumb drives that were not counted), not verify if the votes were actually legitimate) as it would have cost him his entire political career.  Philip Stark, who created the RLA, came out publicly and said Georgia election law was not followed. He's a data scientist, not a partisan hack, it's his life's work at stake, he has an incentive to protect it. The MSM coverage of Stark was ZERO.

It becomes difficult to find anything substantive when officials who owe their entire careers to George Soros insane video game style of throwing money at a wall to fund their campaigns stonewall actual court orders that would facilitate finding anything substantive. Do you know who else got fat money from Soros? The before mentioned Stacey Abrams. Do you see a pattern emerging when you FOLLOW THE MONEY?

The DNC opposes the kind of ballot verification in Arizona ( and in the critical battleground of Georgia)  that Pelosi demanded to protect Gavin Newsom from his recall. She went even as far as to tell every single member of Democratic Party that the were being warned if they ran in a recall election. What kind of draconian feudal society happy horse #### is that? For Newsom, auditors went line by line, inch by inch, signature by signature.

You have your free speech Woz The BackStabber. You are a licensed and practicing attorney. You've mentioned that exhaustively in public. (Your mistake) You can, as a part of your free speech, defend what is going on in Maricopa County. But to do so, you'll have to openly support the defiance of actual court orders for the release of data and hardware. Like all sworn law enforcement and all licensed doctors, you had to do that little thing called taking an oath right? Your specific oath was to support the Constitution and obey laws and lawful orders.

How can anything substantive turn up when those bought and paid for by George Soros stonewall an actual legal obligation. An issue of which you can not claim any ignorance towards. If you defend these officials who can barely walk with Soros money shoved down their pants legs then all you've done is become the punchline of every stereotype of every lawyer seen on every sitcom in every place on the entire face of the planet. At least these officials got money for their campaigns, what did you get?

You can't enjoy the status that comes with waving your law degree around without being held to the standards that come with them. You then are obligated to not ignore when others violate those standards.

You can defend every last hand recount in Maricopa County as a diversion to sellouts telling a judge to go pound sand as a part of your free speech. But you won't ever get to wave your law degree around here again if you do.

 
BladeRunner said:
I agree.  Many still think Trump had hookers pee on him and colluded with the Russians to steal the 2016 election.

Thanks for pointing that out.  :thumbup:
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I think its possible but like Trump and his minions on voter fraud there is no proof so I would have the sense to not insist it happened.

 
Apple Jack said:
The integrity of our elections is not in doubt. Listen to counsel.
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All this crap about improving the integrity of our elections is bogus and Red states are making voting tougher. All this nonsense  is nothing short of a solution looking for a problem all to stroke the former President's ridiculous massive ego.

 
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BladeRunner said:
They gaslight for a reason - repeat a lie often enough and enough people will come to believe it.  They've succeeded with the help of the MSM.

Think of this:  The party that fought FOR slavery, implemented Jim Crowe and founded the KKK has managed to convince millions of black people to vote for them.  They didn't get those votes because they said THEY were the racists - they simply said it was "the other guys" and repeatedly.  I mean, you have to give them credit for succeeding beyond their wildest expectations.  
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You are not  what you once were, you are what you are now. You don't want to go there. Millions of Republicans voted for Trump because he was pro life but he was pro choice a number of years ago and there is video of him praising Pelosi. Who the heck cares what Democrats were 50-60 years ago

 
So they wasted everyone’s time with this audit only to find that Trump is so unlikable that the managed to get a state that was red for the past 25 years to flip and vote in a guy who is old, but at least reasonably sane.

 
BladeRunner said:
The party that fought FOR slavery, implemented Jim Crowe and founded the KKK has managed to convince millions of black people to vote for them.  They didn't get those votes because they said THEY were the racists - they simply said it was "the other guys" and repeatedly.  I
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I think black people are smart enough to know who the people were who faught for slavery. Guess they weren't fooled into believing the leopard changed his spots just by renaming themselves Republicans. 

 
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the moops said:
In 1900, would you have been a republican or democrat?
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Of course we all would have been Republicans in 1900.

But we would have been the good kind of Republicans. Not the kind who oppose big business, support unions, favor unemployment compensation, support government-provided housing, support unrestricted voting, support prohibition, and support intervention in foreign military affairs -- as the Republican Party of 1900 did.

 
GordonGekko said:
Direct Headline: Report: Arizona has ‘substantive deficiencies’ in post-election audit laws

Two nonprofits recommend removing party authority over audits and requiring risk-limiting audits after every election

By Cole Lauterbach Feb 3, 2021

https://www.thecentersquare.com/arizona/report-arizona-has-substantive-deficiencies-in-post-election-audit-laws/article_415e544e-666f-11eb-9828-b76e4404d45e.html

Direct Headline: Are risk-limiting audits the golden ticket to preventing draconian election recounts?

Algorithm-generated process heralded as way to reform vote verification

By Hollie McKay 11/3/2020

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/are-risk-limiting-audits-the-golden-ticket-to-preventing-a-draconian-election-recount

Direct Headline:  Maricopa County Officials Refusing to Turn Over Routers to Auditors

By Sandy Fitzgerald    Friday, 07 May 2021 11:39 AM

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/maricopa-county-auditors-2020-election/2021/05/07/id/1020526/

Direct Headline: Mega-Donor George Soros Began Targeting Arizona and Georgia Elections in 2015

Posted Tuesday, November 27, 2018

https://amac.us/mega-donor-george-soros-began-targeting-arizona-and-georgia-elections-in-2015/

*******

Maricopa County did multiple hand recounts. They are not required by law to do Risk Limiting Audits. Georgia was required by it's own election laws to do RLAs, and Brad Raffensperger didn't do it ( Of course he didn't do it, his hybrid recount would only find missing votes against a hard tally ( i.e. they ended up finding some thumb drives that were not counted), not verify if the votes were actually legitimate) as it would have cost him his entire political career.  Philip Stark, who created the RLA, came out publicly and said Georgia election law was not followed. He's a data scientist, not a partisan hack, it's his life's work at stake, he has an incentive to protect it. The MSM coverage of Stark was ZERO.

It becomes difficult to find anything substantive when officials who owe their entire careers to George Soros insane video game style of throwing money at a wall to fund their campaigns stonewall actual court orders that would facilitate finding anything substantive. Do you know who else got fat money from Soros? The before mentioned Stacey Abrams. Do you see a pattern emerging when you FOLLOW THE MONEY?

The DNC opposes the kind of ballot verification in Arizona ( and in the critical battleground of Georgia)  that Pelosi demanded to protect Gavin Newsom from his recall. She went even as far as to tell every single member of Democratic Party that the were being warned if they ran in a recall election. What kind of draconian feudal society happy horse #### is that? For Newsom, auditors went line by line, inch by inch, signature by signature.

You have your free speech Woz The BackStabber. You are a licensed and practicing attorney. You've mentioned that exhaustively in public. (Your mistake) You can, as a part of your free speech, defend what is going on in Maricopa County. But to do so, you'll have to openly support the defiance of actual court orders for the release of data and hardware. Like all sworn law enforcement and all licensed doctors, you had to do that little thing called taking an oath right? Your specific oath was to support the Constitution and obey laws and lawful orders.

How can anything substantive turn up when those bought and paid for by George Soros stonewall an actual legal obligation. An issue of which you can not claim any ignorance towards. If you defend these officials who can barely walk with Soros money shoved down their pants legs then all you've done is become the punchline of every stereotype of every lawyer seen on every sitcom in every place on the entire face of the planet. At least these officials got money for their campaigns, what did you get?

You can't enjoy the status that comes with waving your law degree around without being held to the standards that come with them. You then are obligated to not ignore when others violate those standards.

You can defend every last hand recount in Maricopa County as a diversion to sellouts telling a judge to go pound sand as a part of your free speech. But you won't ever get to wave your law degree around here again if you do.
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Wat

 
GordonGekko said:
Ask Woz. You'll be surprised at the answer.
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I genuinely don’t even know what your responsive post is trying to say. The post you quoted of mine had zero legal opinion and analysis - I was merely providing my personal opinion and anecdotal experience of living in the state where the audit is occurring. 
 

In other words, lawyers are allowed to have personal opinions and experiences. 

 
Zow said:
I genuinely don’t even know what your responsive post is trying to say. The post you quoted of mine had zero legal opinion and analysis - I was merely providing my personal opinion and anecdotal experience of living in the state where the audit is occurring. 
 

In other words, lawyers are allowed to have personal opinions and experiences. 
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They're also allowed to point out legal inconsistencies and errors in court decisions and to challenge baseless and incorrect actions, both from courts and from government entities. In fact, some would say they have a duty to do so--an attorney's oath is to honor the law, not to blindly accept what they see as an incorrect determination. Just more GG word salad that doesn't survive actual analysis.

 
An “audit” done by a company with no experience named “Cyber Ninjas” that has produced easily disproved bogus claims (quickly parroted by DJT) which is led by a MAGA, Trump bootlicker, searching for Chinese bamboo ballots, held in gymnasium that shares grounds with a traveling carnival.

Trump personified  :lol:

 
The General said:
An “audit” done by a company with no experience named “Cyber Ninjas” that has produced easily disproved bogus claims (quickly parroted by DJT) which is led by a MAGA, Trump bootlicker, searching for Chinese bamboo ballots, held in gymnasium that shares grounds with a traveling carnival.

Trump personified  :lol:
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is this a preview of what to expect if the results are less than favorable?  why don't we just wait to see what comes out of it?  kinda early to kill the messenger when he hasn't delivered the message.  IMO

 
shadrap said:
is this a preview of what to expect if the results are less than favorable?  why don't we just wait to see what comes out of it?  kinda early to kill the messenger when he hasn't delivered the message.  IMO
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Well since they have never done one before, were using pens that could alter ballots and asked for router admin logins my confidence is pretty low this is legitimate

 
shadrap said:
is this a preview of what to expect if the results are less than favorable?  why don't we just wait to see what comes out of it?  kinda early to kill the messenger when he hasn't delivered the message.  IMO
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Have you read about this company and have you followed what information they have put out so far?

 
shadrap said:
is this a preview of what to expect if the results are less than favorable?  why don't we just wait to see what comes out of it?  kinda early to kill the messenger when he hasn't delivered the message.  IMO
Click to expand...
They accused the county of deleting databases. Trump parroted the claim. Then the county told them they didn't know what they were doing and gave them instructions. Once they followed the instructions, they admitted they found the missing data.

 
Amused to Death said:
They accused the county of deleting databases. Trump parroted the claim. Then the county told them they didn't know what they were doing and gave them instructions. Once they followed the instructions, they admitted they found the missing data.
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that's cool.  Link? legitimate request and not asking in a skanky manner

 
BladeRunner said:
Yeah, you guys follow the NYT and WAPO too and have no issues with them whatsoever.  Why is this company any different?
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Read up about the CEO of this company and tell me that this is a qualified individual to lead an audit.

You can't honestly think this is legit and isn't dangerous. For example - they have already incorrectly claimed that voter databases were deleted. Trump blogs about this. 

 
BladeRunner said:
Yeah, you guys follow the NYT and WAPO too and have no issues with them whatsoever.  Why is this company any different?
Click to expand...
Because despite the rhetoric out of Trump and his supporters those two organizations are still credible sources of news.

This is a company with zero experience performing this...who is going into it with what appears to be a conflict of interest when it comes to independence which would be required of any official audit of a government function.

 
The General said:
Read up about the CEO of this company and tell me that this is a qualified individual to lead an audit.

You can't honestly think this is legit and isn't dangerous. For example - they have already incorrectly claimed that voter databases were deleted. Trump blogs about this. 
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Irrelevant side story. My brother is a director of a cyber security company. In a recent text conversation, he said he used Doug Logan (Cyber Ninja CEO) years ago and can't believe how off the rails he is today. "I worked with the dude, he seemed normal 7 years ago".

 
Dude the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors - a predominently deep red board of elected officials - thinks this thing is a farce. That should say enough. 

 
Amused to Death said:
Irrelevant side story. My brother is a director of a cyber security company. In a recent text conversation, he said he used Doug Logan (Cyber Ninja CEO) years ago and can't believe how off the rails he is today. "I worked with the dude, he seemed normal 7 years ago".
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It happens.

 
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