Marital Advice - Friendly camping trip too friendly? (1 Viewer)

[tommyboy]

this deal is over. But it's not over for you, you have a free pass now. An IOU card. So here's what you do, the next time you have the opportunity to get laid, take it, and I don't mean with your wife. Only then will this episode be settled for you in your mind. Since this is still unsettled in your mind, this is exactly what I would do. And be sure to tell your wife this is what you are going to do. She'll probably jog her memory at the least, and either way now she can feel some of the anxiety you've felt the last week.

 

[squidrope]

Why would Steve use a stall if there were urinals?

Why would 38DD go into stall with Steve?

Why would George tell MITYH multiple times to check on 38DD, if all was ok?

Why would 38DD "attempt" to grab or look at Steves junk if she wasn't interested in said junk?

Why would 38DD's puppies be out of there holsters?

Why would Steve and 38DD arrive at camp later than others?

Why would 38DD not remember that part of the nite?

Tough spot to be in MITYH. Sounds like 38DD was an active participant in the evenings goings on. I'd tell 38DD how Steve claims "she was the aggressor" and see what kind of reaction you get. GL with everything.

 

[Courtjester]

What's your read on Steve then? Did the answers come smoothly like he was expecting to get questioned and had already prepared them? Or was he taken back a little when you said you'd been told she held his junk and she flashed him? If you have a read on him then that's probably your answer. If you believe what he's telling you, then you probably chalk it up to your wife being drunk and silly and move on. It sounds like up to this point you've had a good thing going.If you don't believe him, then.... ??

The first answer he gave, about her being the stall, didn't really seem rehearsed. But i also believe either his wife or daughter was still within earshot, so he wasn't completing the details for me. Sure seemed like he knew exactly what I was talking about though.As for whether or not I really pushed him. I didn't roll over, and I was assertive. I'm not sure yelling or acting 'tougher' would've gotten me any further.

Okay, you're pretty much done here. Absent talking to Steve's wife, you're not gonna get any more info than you already have. I suggest you have a heart to heart with your wife, ask her if she still loves you, find out if she's still committed to the marriage, and if you're confident you're both on the same page in that regard, get on with your lives, focus on your family, hang with different friends, and watch the drinking.

:(

Just to echo, this is the correct answer.Going back to Steve, George, etc to attempt to find additional answers that probably do not exist just makes you look like a loon. Take the above advice and move on with your family.

 

[Shrek]

I know this sounds strange, but I would be more offended by Steve's callous "it wasn't a big deal" reaction than I would to anything else. Knowing myself, my next question would have been "Oh yeah, so you're cool with your wife meatgazing in the bathroom for 15 minutes with your friends?" Anyway, this is not a conversation I would have had over the phone. But that's water under the bridge now.

Your wife was obviously impaired. It appears that Steve was sober enough to supposedly remember everything that went on. It follows that, as your friend, he should have also been sober enough to realize that the situation was not appropriate and was heading somewhere bad. At the very least, when he returned to the campsite. he should have told you what happened.

Sorry MITYH, but it appears that at several different times, Steve had the opportunity to be a friend to you and he elected not to be. Why you would continue to extend him any more opportunities is beyond me, and frankly, seems inappropriate now considering the events that transpired.

I hate to cut friends off. But I have done it before for different, although no less serious reasons. And I've never regretted a single time that I did it.

 

[3C's]

Steve obviously knew you were going to ask him about this, so he had a story all prepared and ready to go. That much is obvious. I would never talk to that guy again.

In the end, you will never really know what happened, so it is all a matter of whether or not you want to believe your wife, and whether you can get past it. Regardless, you two need to talk about this.

I agree there is nothing left to see here. Just take care of your family and leave Steve in the rearview mirror.

What did Steve do?He was just taken a piss when wifey wanted to check out his junk. Doesn't seem like he did anything.

That's the other thing. While it's easy for strangers to say 'cut Steve (and possibly George) out of your life', we have to remember that these are people they've been friends with for a very long time and trusted. Outside of being told he's a 'player', what do we know about Steve? Maybe he's telling the truth and not really out to destroy MIYH's life.In the end it sounds like some inappropriate, drunken silliness but probably something they can all get past.

Good luck in whatever you do from here, MIYH.

 

[DolphinsPhan]

What's your read on Steve then? Did the answers come smoothly like he was expecting to get questioned and had already prepared them? Or was he taken back a little when you said you'd been told she held his junk and she flashed him? If you have a read on him then that's probably your answer. If you believe what he's telling you, then you probably chalk it up to your wife being drunk and silly and move on. It sounds like up to this point you've had a good thing going.If you don't believe him, then.... ??

The first answer he gave, about her being the stall, didn't really seem rehearsed. But i also believe either his wife or daughter was still within earshot, so he wasn't completing the details for me. Sure seemed like he knew exactly what I was talking about though.As for whether or not I really pushed him. I didn't roll over, and I was assertive. I'm not sure yelling or acting 'tougher' would've gotten me any further.

Okay, you're pretty much done here. Absent talking to Steve's wife, you're not gonna get any more info than you already have. I suggest you have a heart to heart with your wife, ask her if she still loves you, find out if she's still committed to the marriage, and if you're confident you're both on the same page in that regard, get on with your lives, focus on your family, hang with different friends, and watch the drinking.

This is about the best advice you will get given the latest update. Definitely time to really sit down with the wife and have a talk. I do not envy you one bit and wish you the best of luck.

 

[Sweet J]

One more thing that I had not thought about before, that might make sense, since we know women are crazy: What about the possibility that your wife IS hiding something, but all that she is hiding is the fact that she took a glance at Steve's Johnson? She might be thinking, "oh, no, my husband would flip if he knew I was in the same stall as another man and looked at his junk. . . I'll just pretend it didn't happen." In this scenario, Steve would be telling the truth, that is all that happenned.

Of course, your wife would have no idea that her "faulty memory" is making it worse -- you've got guys in here that are painting various doomsday scenarios and I'm sure your brain is fried from them.

Just a thought.

 

[SuperJohn96]

bump

 

[Random]

Wow. Any chance your wife and Steve talked and got a story together before you talked to him?

 

[Sabertooth]

I'd pack the kids up to grandmas house. Take your wife over to Steve's place and sit down and talk about it with him and his wife. Get all the cards on the table. I would just spring it on them. Just show up. Their kids can play in their room or something like that.

And I'd spill everything I know, the stall visit, George and his wife walking away from the stall visit, the touching, the bra, everything. Right out in plain view.

If he wasn't filling in details because of his wife, maybe she's like to know some of the details. I assume she wasn't in the mens room. She might like to know what transpired there.

 

[identikit]

Why would Steve use a stall if there were urinals?Why would 38DD go into stall with Steve?Why would George tell MITYH multiple times to check on 38DD, if all was ok?Why would 38DD "attempt" to grab or look at Steves junk if she wasn't interested in said junk?Why would 38DD's puppies be out of there holsters?Why would Steve and 38DD arrive at camp later than others?Why would 38DD not remember that part of the nite? Tough spot to be in MITYH. Sounds like 38DD was an active participant in the evenings goings on. I'd tell 38DD how Steve claims "she was the aggressor" and see what kind of reaction you get. GL with everything.

All very s!!

 

[avoiding injuries]

Based on the how Steve's responses were typed, I actually believe him and probably would have had similar responses had it been me being questioned and nothing "really" happened.

I would use this against your wife and tell her the conversation went down a little differently to see what else you can learn from her foggy memory.

Other than that, your investigating seems to be done. You need to decide whether or not to keep Steve as a friend. I think George is pretty much in the clear. Good luck with the wife and your family.

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

I'd pack the kids up to grandmas house. Take your wife over to Steve's place and sit down and talk about it with him and his wife. Get all the cards on the table. I would just spring it on them. Just show up. Their kids can play in their room or something like that. And I'd spill everything I know, the stall visit, George and his wife walking away from the stall visit, the touching, the bra, everything. Right out in plain view. If he wasn't filling in details because of his wife, maybe she's like to know some of the details. I assume she wasn't in the mens room. She might like to know what transpired there.

and be sure to record the conversation for accurate transcription

 

[wadegarrett]

My guess...

Steve: "You've seen mine...now let me see yours."

Whether or not there was any touching remains to be seen. And it sounds like there is no more investigating that needs to be done.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Sounds to me like nothing happened. A big to do about nothing.

 

[flufhed]

I'm not a frequent poster, but have been around since the cheatsheets.net days as a long-time lurker. I've sympathized with MITYH since page 2 when I got on this train, and have felt pretty bad for the guy while he was getting beat up for not "Mannning Up". I didn't understand why I felt like this since I too agreed that he should have done more, but I stepped back I found out why. MITYH and I are cut from the same cloth, so much so that it could have been me writing the original post. I have many similarities and traits; I live and work in southcentral WI, am probably around the same age, have similar group of friends, and am also far from an Alpha Male since I am passive (or alternately passive-aggressive), avoid confrontation in all but the most serious circumstances, am a "nice guy", and want to trust and believe in people despite evidence showing otherwise. I've been stepped on a few times and can physically defend myself if need be, but have never been in, nor hope to be in, a physical "fight" per se. I can see his rationalization for his actions throughout the process, since I too would likely rationalize and procede in much the same way. I have to say it's an inherent personality trait and it is what it is, it is neither good or bad, right or wrong. He or I will never be the loud, brash and overly confident Alpha Male that many are suggesting he become overnight. His wife chose to be with him knowing full well this is who he is, for better or worse and whether she "settled" or not is irrelevant.JFT

The only thing that really needs to be said at this point is "GROW A SACK". Your wife IS and HAS cheated on you. Wake up. Unless this behavior secretly turns you on then have some dignity and kick her ### to the curb.

What an interesting contrast in posts. FWIW, I'm much more like JFT and MITYH than people like Kais. Great post by JFT, and he's right, there is nothing wrong with being the nice trusting 'passive' guy.

I disagree with that assertion, but only to an extent. There is nothing inherently wrong with it, no. But being a passive person comes with a set of realities that one must be self-aware of in order to manage. One is that you must choose friends and a mate who respect your qualities and are content with them. I stand by my description that in the wrong pack these people can easily find themselves prey for the dominant types if there is a certain dynamic. A wounded buffalo will not be taken advantage of by another buffalo... But if that buffalo decided to go chill out with a pride of lions, well, what do you think would happen?Passive people generally must surround themselves with complimentary people, not merely "friends" who feel an egotistical need to lord over, ridicule and abuse others (often out of character flaws or insecurities of their own). As far as a mate, if someone is going to be with a passive person they should be the sort that's sewn their wild oats and doesn't have any sense of regret for experiences missed. It should be someone mature, secure and confident in the fact that the life chosen comes with comfort, love and commitment that when embraced forms a different variety of happiness than with an Alpha sort or "Mr. Exciting." Make no mistake that passive people come with a different instruction manual... And offer different positives to the world that can be appreciated or abused accordingly. In this circumstance, a passive person was clearly trampled upon. His instinct is to shrug it off, but there is no dignity in that. In order to preserve his basic manhood and rights to the very basic foundation of what is his, he must step out of his comfort zone. In an ideal situation, passive people surround themselves with loyal people who step up and protect them, realizing that true friendships involve people whose differences compliment each other. In this case, those weaknesses were exploited and his choices are to either change the unhealthy dynamic by asserting himself within it, or leaving that dynamic for a new one. Whether his wife would come along is something a counselor should probably be involved in deciding... But right now, after this, a passive MITYH... well that ship has sailed.

Awesome.I am neither an Alpha male or an Omega, but somewhere in-between. Truth be told, closer to MITYH than to the alpha (we'll call me the Delta - never at the top, but not the one hat everyon picks on, either), and many of the lessons above apply in my life, and I have learned them and implemented them. I lucked out with my wife, who is exactly as Mr. Ham describes above, because I met her when I was still a clueless moron about this stuff. But I have had enough friends completely disappoint me that I have learned there is a certain type of guy that is drawn to me as a friend (generally the alpha male who is also deeply flawed and is overcompensating), and I have to recognize that and avoid this type of person, or at least not allow myself to get too close to them as a friend. I am much better off surrounding myself with the Omega types, flawed guys, but guys who are introspective enough to not lash out at the world for their shortcomings.Honestly, Mr. Ham, reading this post made me appreciate my wife in a whole new light. She was not what I would necessarily call a "seasoned" gal when I met her, but she was certainly more experienced than I was. For a while, I was uncomfortable with the power imbalance this caused, even though I have alot of power in our relationship due to the qualities I bring to the table. To this day she still does not know exactly to what degree she did come to the table with more sexual power than me, to the point that I have intentionally outright lied about some things,eft the rest to mystery. And she never will know the truth. I am a firm believer that wife and husbands don't need to know everything about each other. Some things are just better left unsaid for the health of the marriage. In short, while I am a total romantic in many ways, I am also a realist, and I know that relationships are created - they don't just happen naturally. Do I believe in soul mates and true love? I don't know, I guess I do believe some people are the perfect match for one another. And that includes my wife and I, and for the first time I have heard someone describe exactly why my wife and I are the perfect match.Sorry to hijack, but Mr. Ham's post really hit close to home. 5 stars for you, sir.

 

[jagbag]

I'd pack the kids up to grandmas house. Take your wife over to Steve's place and sit down and talk about it with him and his wife. Get all the cards on the table. I would just spring it on them. Just show up. Their kids can play in their room or something like that. And I'd spill everything I know, the stall visit, George and his wife walking away from the stall visit, the touching, the bra, everything. Right out in plain view. If he wasn't filling in details because of his wife, maybe she's like to know some of the details. I assume she wasn't in the mens room. She might like to know what transpired there.

This is what I was thinking as well.Be ready for all answers though.

 

[Mr. Chumley]

I know this sounds strange, but I would be more offended by Steve's callous "it wasn't a big deal" reaction than I would to anything else. Knowing myself, my next question would have been "Oh yeah, so you're cool with your wife meatgazing in the bathroom for 15 minutes with your friends?" Anyway, this is not a conversation I would have had over the phone. But that's water under the bridge now.Your wife was obviously impaired. It appears that Steve was sober enough to supposedly remember everything that went on. It follows that, as your friend, he should have also been sober enough to realize that the situation was not appropriate and was heading somewhere bad. At the very least, when he returned to the campsite. he should have told you what happened.Sorry MITYH, but it appears that at several different times, Steve had the opportunity to be a friend to you and he elected not to be. Why you would continue to extend him any more opportunities is beyond me, and frankly, seems inappropriate now considering the events that transpired. I hate to cut friends off. But I have done it before for different, although no less serious reasons. And I've never regretted a single time that I did it.

It's time to put this behind you. It sounds like the wife got drunk and did some stupid, inappropriate things and so did Steve. Like I said before drinking doesn't take away your ability to tell right from wrong only you inhibitions. Both knew what they were doing was wrong. You should be done with Steve and you should make it clear to the wife that this is to never happen again and that she broke your trust. After that tell her you forgive her and put it behind you never bring it up again and concentrate on being a good husband and father. Don’t let this ruin your marriage or your family. Good luck.

 

[chuckorc]

Anyone notice that the poll has changed? What's up with that? Can I get a ruling?

I mean 198 votes don't just disappear, do they?

 

[ooofffaaa]

Steve not showing up at the wedding is not a good sign.

 

[shuke]

My guess...Steve: "You've seen mine...now let me see yours."Whether or not there was any touching remains to be seen. And it sounds like there is no more investigating that needs to be done.

 

[General Malaise]

I went camping Saturday night and our campsite was across from the bathrooms (small kids in tow). I'm not gonna lie, I spent most of the night in a chair watching people going in and out, ready to be a key witness should any hanky spanky go down.

Sadly, I saw nothing and fell asleep in a chair with a beer in my lap. I woke up to hideous neck pain and a wet crotch. I'm hoping it was not pee.

 

[kcharden]

MITYH,

I don't think you are going to get anything more from George or Steve, or Steve's wife. They have all talked amongst themselves, and my guess is that your wife and Steve have their stories straight. I know it was inconvenient to go speak to Steve face to face, and I am not certain you'd have gotten much more that way. But I wish you could have spoken to him unannounced, face to face somehow.

Anyway, BB's advice is good I think. You may just need to move on and try to put his behind you. At this point, the only resolution you'll find (IMO) is between you and your wife. I think you already know the truth. If you knew they had secks (I don't believe they did) would you need to know what position? Do you see where I'm going with this? You know enough. You don't know the details but you know enough. Now you have to decide where to go from here.

You have learned a lot about some people. I feel for you. Good luck.

Katie

 

[[icon]]

I went camping Saturday night and our campsite was across from the bathrooms (small kids in tow). I'm not gonna lie, I spent most of the night in a chair watching people going in and out, ready to be a key witness should any hanky spanky go down.Sadly, I saw nothing and fell asleep in a chair with a beer in my lap. I woke up to hideous neck pain and a wet crotch. I'm hoping it was not pee.

Campground Columbo™

 

[zoonation]

only thing left to do is check phone records to see if wifey and schlong spoke after the trip.

Otherwise you've got notta.

 

[Dragons]

He already checked phone and emails and came up empty.

At this point, I agree you have as much as you're going to have. I'm with bigbottom, but add counseling.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

What's your read on Steve then? Did the answers come smoothly like he was expecting to get questioned and had already prepared them? Or was he taken back a little when you said you'd been told she held his junk and she flashed him? If you have a read on him then that's probably your answer. If you believe what he's telling you, then you probably chalk it up to your wife being drunk and silly and move on. It sounds like up to this point you've had a good thing going.If you don't believe him, then.... ??

The first answer he gave, about her being the stall, didn't really seem rehearsed. But i also believe either his wife or daughter was still within earshot, so he wasn't completing the details for me. Sure seemed like he knew exactly what I was talking about though.As for whether or not I really pushed him. I didn't roll over, and I was assertive. I'm not sure yelling or acting 'tougher' would've gotten me any further.

Okay, you're pretty much done here. Absent talking to Steve's wife, you're not gonna get any more info than you already have. I suggest you have a heart to heart with your wife, ask her if she still loves you, find out if she's still committed to the marriage, and if you're confident you're both on the same page in that regard, get on with your lives, focus on your family, hang with different friends, and watch the drinking.

bigbottom knows things.....Time to put this to rest and move on.

 

[Commish77]

Having believed from the original post that WIFE at the very least gave oral to Steve, I think the latest update may have me more convinced that MIYH's timeline may just be way off.

In short, I think that Steve's past came into play when determining possible happenings in the stall. Maybe, just MAYBE everyone was innocent aside from pee-pee holding (and maybe boob flashing). Does that end a marriage? No. Does it end the friendship with Steve? Maybe not.

But I'll bet you one thing... MIYH will get up the next time someone suggests he go check on his wife.

 

[Rayderr]

Tell wifey what Steve yold you. Let her know that she needs to get her drinking under control (stressful week or not), no more going off with Steve on her own, and that she's going to be on a short leash for a while.

 

[zoonation]

He already checked phone and emails and came up empty.At this point, I agree you have as much as you're going to have. I'm with bigbottom, but add counseling.

oh, I missed that part.This baby just ran out of legs. The problem for Man w/ Hat is that not knowing the whole story will slowly eat away at him. I agree counselling is the only option now.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

I'm not a frequent poster, but have been around since the cheatsheets.net days as a long-time lurker. I've sympathized with MITYH since page 2 when I got on this train, and have felt pretty bad for the guy while he was getting beat up for not "Mannning Up". I didn't understand why I felt like this since I too agreed that he should have done more, but I stepped back I found out why. MITYH and I are cut from the same cloth, so much so that it could have been me writing the original post. I have many similarities and traits; I live and work in southcentral WI, am probably around the same age, have similar group of friends, and am also far from an Alpha Male since I am passive (or alternately passive-aggressive), avoid confrontation in all but the most serious circumstances, am a "nice guy", and want to trust and believe in people despite evidence showing otherwise. I've been stepped on a few times and can physically defend myself if need be, but have never been in, nor hope to be in, a physical "fight" per se. I can see his rationalization for his actions throughout the process, since I too would likely rationalize and procede in much the same way. I have to say it's an inherent personality trait and it is what it is, it is neither good or bad, right or wrong. He or I will never be the loud, brash and overly confident Alpha Male that many are suggesting he become overnight. His wife chose to be with him knowing full well this is who he is, for better or worse and whether she "settled" or not is irrelevant.I find it hard to believe based on the tale woven that something didn't happen in the bathroom, and find it harder to believe that she doesn't remember. 'Deny to the bitter end' is what I've read over and over from those involved with infedelity, a convenient out is what it is. Hell, if I was in her shoes, I'd do the same thing if I didn't want a divorce and really just made a stupid mistake. Even if the right thing to do is to admit her guilt, spill the beans and beg forgiveness, I doubt she ever will. As others have mentioned, to find out exactly what happened, George needs to be interrigated and not let up until you get the answers you're looking for. ..And those who think George isn't a good friend or is evil, that's probably not the case either. As others have mentioned, George doesn't want to get in the middle, but there is more than that.. George probably doesn't want to hurt his pal MITYH and probably hopes that MITYH lives without the knowledge or finds out on his own that his wife is a cheating whore. In college, we had a close group of 4-5 guys who lived in two adjoining apartments. While the specifics escape me, there came to be some evidence or knowledge that one of the guys, Mike, was being cheated on by his girlfriend. To make matters worse, the dude she was cheating on was one of Mike's other friends that wasn't part of our group. The rest of us all knew about it, but no one had the balls to break Mike's heart with the news and all hoped he would find out on his own. It wasn't until my then -girlfriend (now wife), who knew Mike longer than me and knew Mike's girlfriend, told Mike that he found out. I think we all regret not telling him, but I think if we were asked direct, point-blank questions, we would have told him. Does that make us all A-holes? Yes, but we thought we had Mike's feelings in mind at the time. I still regret not telling him, but he forgave us knowing that we weren't intentially trying to F him over, it was only poor judgement.So my point being A) MITYH, go after George and don't let up. He wants you to know but is both a chicken-s hit and I think doesn't want you to feel the pain he knows you likely will, let him know it won't effect the relationship between you and George and that you will hold him in high regard for being a true friend and B) After you find out more of the story, determine what it means to you, assuming your wife remembers, feels awful and will never tell you the truth. I would think some counciling would be in order if nothing else. You're marriage will be starting from scratch in many ways and if you don't rebuild properly, you risk a complete collapse or lifelong animosity if you stay together. Stay strong man, I honestly feel for you and know you're doing what you think is right, no matter how what the masses here think you should do. Once taken to completion, let it go. Best of luck.JFT

This is a heck of a post, man. I hope MITYH appreciates the time you took to write it.

This guy should post more. Pretty blown away with that one.

I dont know. In the first paragraph he says he avoids confrontations in all but the most serious circumstances. While I agree with this whole heartedly I believe MIYH has found himself in one of those most serious circumstances. I suppose that could be a subjective thing. I personally would put this at the top of my list of most serious circumstances.

I read that as a guy trying to shed some light on the situation by giving a psychological profile of himself, who he sees as similar to ManHat. Guys like this aren't prone to confrontation and while we all agree this is pretty serious, it's a lot lot harder for ManHat to go Rambo on a guy than it is for say, you or DJColts.

Because we all know how GM reacts when his wife is the issue GM:

Woz, you are a complete and utter ****.

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

I went camping Saturday night and our campsite was across from the bathrooms (small kids in tow). I'm not gonna lie, I spent most of the night in a chair watching people going in and out, ready to be a key witness should any hanky spanky go down.Sadly, I saw nothing and fell asleep in a chair with a beer in my lap. I woke up to hideous neck pain and a wet crotch. I'm hoping it was not pee.

don't worry, somebody probably held it for you while you peed

 

[SuperJohn96]

I am with those that think you are not really going to find out any more information from George and/or Steve.

Maybe you could find out more from your wife, as I am convinced she knows what she did based on her reactions to your questions.

But so what...the question (already posed) is where does MITYH go from here?

The cheating or whatever happened is a result of some other issue, and MITYH needs to get to the root of this issue if the marriage is really going to move forward.

MITYH and WIFE need to find out why she did what she did. If MITYH believes that WIFE really doesn't remember, then they need to at least understand and correct what made her cheat.

If he thinks she's still lying/holding back about what she remembers, then MITYH has to determine if counselling is a waste of time.

He already doesn't trust her. If he thinks she is still lying (and never fesses up) then that makes me just want to call a lawyer and see where to take it from there.

 

[Man in the yellow hat]

Having believed from the original post that WIFE at the very least gave oral to Steve, I think the latest update may have me more convinced that MIYH's timeline may just be way off. In short, I think that Steve's past came into play when determining possible happenings in the stall. Maybe, just MAYBE everyone was innocent aside from pee-pee holding (and maybe boob flashing). Does that end a marriage? No. Does it end the friendship with Steve? Maybe not. But I'll bet you one thing... MIYH will get up the next time someone suggests he go check on his wife.

There's some truth here, for sure. My wife and I had very long talk last night. And I did say that if it was any other guy (from the campsite) you walked up there with, I'd be asking a lot fewer questions. He is not the kind of guy that would turn down a 'free' shot at a woman. And she hasn't seen that side of him. I think she's starting to get it now though. She saw him a certain way and was very blinded by that. Ineteresting times are ahead for us. We talked for a couple hours about things last night, and she certainly knows where I stand. We covered a lot of ground.

 

[General Malaise]

MITYH,I don't think you are going to get anything more from George or Steve, or Steve's wife. They have all talked amongst themselves, and my guess is that your wife and Steve have their stories straight. I know it was inconvenient to go speak to Steve face to face, and I am not certain you'd have gotten much more that way. But I wish you could have spoken to him unannounced, face to face somehow.Anyway, BB's advice is good I think. You may just need to move on and try to put his behind you. At this point, the only resolution you'll find (IMO) is between you and your wife. I think you already know the truth. If you knew they had secks (I don't believe they did) would you need to know what position? Do you see where I'm going with this? You know enough. You don't know the details but you know enough. Now you have to decide where to go from here.You have learned a lot about some people. I feel for you. Good luck.Katie

Katie, why do you spell sex 'secks'? TIAHerman

 

[FigJam]

I have a dumb question:I feel like my cousin Vinny...Are you sure about those 15 minutes? You have said you were drunk. Maybe it wasn't that long? The sticking point seems to be the time factor here. Maybe they were innocently joking with each other for a few minutes and that's it. Add that plus the walk back and everyone being drunk, and maybe it's not 15 minutes. If it was 10 minutes, can an innocent story fit? 8? 5?

This is a tough call. Again, we were all drinking. All I can say is this. I remember George clearly coming back a while before Steve and my wife. All I can say is, if George and Steve's wife can pee and be back that fast, then what took Steve and my wife longer? Even if they both peed in the same stall, via taking turns, does it realy take that much longer? I'm not sure what to make of this.

Problem with that theory is it opens it up to the fact that it could have been 30 mins + (ouch)

What's your read on Steve then? Did the answers come smoothly like he was expecting to get questioned and had already prepared them? Or was he taken back a little when you said you'd been told she held his junk and she flashed him? If you have a read on him then that's probably your answer. If you believe what he's telling you, then you probably chalk it up to your wife being drunk and silly and move on. It sounds like up to this point you've had a good thing going.If you don't believe him, then.... ??

The first answer he gave, about her being the stall, didn't really seem rehearsed. But i also believe either his wife or daughter was still within earshot, so he wasn't completing the details for me. Sure seemed like he knew exactly what I was talking about though.As for whether or not I really pushed him. I didn't roll over, and I was assertive. I'm not sure yelling or acting 'tougher' would've gotten me any further.

1. Either george was lying or Steve is.2. The answers look rehearsed to me.3. Your wife INITIATED this, and is claiming no recollection.4. See #3Trust is done no matter what happens now, you either need coucelling or to pull the plug on the marriage.

 

[Alias]

Here is your weekend update. What next?In a shocking twist (riiiiggghht) Steve and his wife did not make it to the wedding. It was actually a pretty good time. George was there, and I didn't learn anything new. He was the only guy there that was on the camping trip. But here's where it gets interesting.I was at my parents' house this afternoon, and Steve returned my call. My cell rang and I saw the ID, but I did not answer considering I was in the middle of a B day lunch (nephew and dad). He left a message saying he'd be around all day and to call him back. So, we drove the couple hours back home, and I dropped my wife and kids off at her parents while I went to 'unpack the car'. So, first thing I did was call Steve back. His four year old answers. Says her dad's outside, but I can talk to her mom. Sweet. So, Steve's wife gets on and we exchange hello's and chat a bit. Steve is outside mowing the lawn, but she stops him and give him the phone. Paraphrased below:Steve: Hey, what's up?Me: Well, the reason I'm calling is my wife says that your camping trip to the bathroom got a little bit out of control.Steve: Ah, well. I don't think it was out of control.Me: Oh, well, she filled me in on her version, so I'd like to hear from you what went down.Steve: Well, nothing really happened. Me: What was she doing in the stall with you?Steve: Oh, she was goofing around. Followed me in and stood behind me, then just kind of jokingly reached over when I was peeing. Nothing happened at all.Me: Well, that sounds like something. So, what happened after that?Steve: Nothing. Me: Did she take her cans out of her shirt or did you?Steve: I don't remember that happening at all.Me: Oh really? She was pretty sure she showed you her rack.Steve: I'm pretty sure I'd remember that. That didn't happen.Me: Oh. OK. Well, so she held your junk while you peed.Steve: Well, not really. She kind of got right behind me and pushed me a bit. Then leaned over and took a peak.Me: As I hear it, she was actually holding your junk, not just looking.Steve: No, I would remember that. She might've gotten a peak, but that's it.Me: Right, OK. She seems to remember things a bit differently.Steve: Dude, I swear. Nothing really went down. I didn't see her rack, and she didn't touch my junk.Me: Well, she's pretty freaked out and wants to hear what you have to say about it too.Steve: If anything would've happened, i would remember it.blah, blah, blah.....____________________________________________________So, now what. It's been confirmed that she was in the stall, and that she was standing pretty much directly pushed up against him from behind. He says she reached for his junk jokingly, but never touched it. There was no explanation given for the length of time it took to make it back to camp. I have not said a word to my wife about this yet. Interestingly, she has not said a word about this in about two days. I have barely talked to her, other than minror chit chat. That's tough during a two hour car ride. She seems like she got over her 'shock' of this pretty quick.Not sure what to do next.....

Quoting the whole thing so that the skimmers can see it...The big unknown is the cans coming out of the bra, seems to me Steve was sober enough to remember everything that happened. His response does not seem that canned, if it was he put on a good act since he got defensive and what not. Your wife can give you no more leads since she was totally drunk. Steve's story does seem to add up considering it was your wife that volunteered to tag along and was being the aggressor. My only advice to you now is just let it breath a few days, not sure how you are feeling, if you are mad at your wife at this point or more angry with Steve.

 

[SuperJohn96]

He already checked phone and emails and came up empty.

At this point, I agree you have as much as you're going to have. I'm with bigbottom, but add counseling.

oh, I missed that part.This baby just ran out of legs.

The problem for Man w/ Hat is that not knowing the whole story will slowly eat away at him. I agree counselling is the only option now.

Not necessarily.If MITYH just assumes that the worst happened, then he can decide for himself if he can live with that scenario.

Whether he knows for sure or not is irrelevant if he can live with that thought. Because he will never find out for sure, unless the WIFE confirms the worst.

 

[zoonation]

Having believed from the original post that WIFE at the very least gave oral to Steve, I think the latest update may have me more convinced that MIYH's timeline may just be way off. In short, I think that Steve's past came into play when determining possible happenings in the stall. Maybe, just MAYBE everyone was innocent aside from pee-pee holding (and maybe boob flashing). Does that end a marriage? No. Does it end the friendship with Steve? Maybe not. But I'll bet you one thing... MIYH will get up the next time someone suggests he go check on his wife.

There's some truth here, for sure. My wife and I had very long talk last night. And I did say that if it was any other guy (from the campsite) you walked up there with, I'd be asking a lot fewer questions. He is not the kind of guy that would turn down a 'free' shot at a woman. And she hasn't seen that side of him. I think she's starting to get it now though. She saw him a certain way and was very blinded by that. Ineteresting times are ahead for us. We talked for a couple hours about things last night, and she certainly knows where I stand. We covered a lot of ground.

sorry dude, but this is bs. "She saw him a certain way"? Yeah, with his pants down. I love how you are letting your wife play the victim now. She was a willing - if drunk - participant. That is the issue. Not Steve.

 

[General Malaise]

I went camping Saturday night and our campsite was across from the bathrooms (small kids in tow). I'm not gonna lie, I spent most of the night in a chair watching people going in and out, ready to be a key witness should any hanky spanky go down.Sadly, I saw nothing and fell asleep in a chair with a beer in my lap. I woke up to hideous neck pain and a wet crotch. I'm hoping it was not pee.

don't worry, somebody probably held it for you while you peed

Do I have to tell my wife?

 

[SuperJohn96]

One more thing about Steve's response.

Whether it was rehearsed or not, it doesn't really matter.

With Steve's history, this is not Steve's first time 'playing' where he shouldn't be, and I bet he's pretty used to lying by now...and you will never get a straight answer from him.

 

[SuperJohn96]

I went camping Saturday night and our campsite was across from the bathrooms (small kids in tow). I'm not gonna lie, I spent most of the night in a chair watching people going in and out, ready to be a key witness should any hanky spanky go down.Sadly, I saw nothing and fell asleep in a chair with a beer in my lap. I woke up to hideous neck pain and a wet crotch. I'm hoping it was not pee.

don't worry, somebody probably held it for you while you peed

Do I have to tell my wife?

She already knows and is posting about it as we speak.

 

[Homewrecker Steve-O]

Well, it is possible however unprobable that nothing happened beyond her grabbing his johnson and him grabbing her tatas. The people that were there are all claiming nothing happened. Two possibilities are: they all have been around enough to know that you deny til you die if the consequences are great enough or they are telling the truth. What are the chances that all 3 (Steve, 38DD, George) all lost their memory and/or blackedout? Pretty slim but possible.

Where do you go from here? Do you want to make the marriage work? If it were my wife it would be over (trust gone = me gone) but putting myself in your shoes I would insist on the following from her, Steve and George.

1. Wife: Counselling for the both of you. The shrink will tell her she screwed up, she's to blame AND you need to be the head of the household. You need to hear all of that just as much as she does. Also she needs to abstain from alcohol if she's blacking out. For her, alcohol in quantity = no inhibitions; bad for a lasting marriage. Sounds like she's not a boozehound but you shouldn't have to police her consumption; so no drinking.

2. Steve: Bye. No contact, no mutual events, no nothing. Your wife still has feelings for him or at the very least is curious enough that she would risk it all to test the waters. Bad dude to have around the missus.

3. George: Give George the right to punch you in the face the next time you disregard his counsel regarding your wife. Also, let him know that if you're not around, drag that beotch the hell out of the situation or beat the guy's ###.

4. You: Demand respect from your wife. Tell her in no uncertain terms that she submits to your requests or it's over. Let her know that a favorable divorce settlement for you would be a breeze, including child custody due to her alcoholism and blackouts. She'll balk saying 'what alcoholism?' but retort with 'explain to the judge why you don't remember grabbing a guy's johnson and the next 15 minutes afterward'.

You seem like a good guy and since you didn't lay that on her while watching the kids, a great father. IMO you need a better wife but if you want to make it work, you need to be calling the shots.

 

[(HULK)]

You know, everyone I know named Steve is a total jerk.

 

[3C's]

Well, it is possible however unprobable that nothing happened beyond her grabbing his johnson and him grabbing her tatas. The people that were there are all claiming nothing happened.

fixed

 

[Yep]

I second that. I've lied in my past and liars make careers of it. They're called salesman. I gotta say you are either REALLY understanding and believe your wife or you're scared to be without her in which case you're saying it's ok she did it. There's no type of recourse for her actions to punish her since you're both adults, that being said though, the old saying goes...."Once a cheat always a cheat" Just keep that in mind. Good luck bro!

 

[kcharden]

MITYH,I don't think you are going to get anything more from George or Steve, or Steve's wife. They have all talked amongst themselves, and my guess is that your wife and Steve have their stories straight. I know it was inconvenient to go speak to Steve face to face, and I am not certain you'd have gotten much more that way. But I wish you could have spoken to him unannounced, face to face somehow.Anyway, BB's advice is good I think. You may just need to move on and try to put his behind you. At this point, the only resolution you'll find (IMO) is between you and your wife. I think you already know the truth. If you knew they had secks (I don't believe they did) would you need to know what position? Do you see where I'm going with this? You know enough. You don't know the details but you know enough. Now you have to decide where to go from here.You have learned a lot about some people. I feel for you. Good luck.Katie

Katie, why do you spell sex 'secks'? TIAHerman

Oh I have seen it spelled that way here before so I thought it was filtered. Silly me. I'm a long time "lurker" and reader of this site. I don't post much. I learn a lot tho!K

 

[PsychoMan]

bump

 

[General Malaise]

MITYH,I don't think you are going to get anything more from George or Steve, or Steve's wife. They have all talked amongst themselves, and my guess is that your wife and Steve have their stories straight. I know it was inconvenient to go speak to Steve face to face, and I am not certain you'd have gotten much more that way. But I wish you could have spoken to him unannounced, face to face somehow.Anyway, BB's advice is good I think. You may just need to move on and try to put his behind you. At this point, the only resolution you'll find (IMO) is between you and your wife. I think you already know the truth. If you knew they had secks (I don't believe they did) would you need to know what position? Do you see where I'm going with this? You know enough. You don't know the details but you know enough. Now you have to decide where to go from here.You have learned a lot about some people. I feel for you. Good luck.Katie

Katie, why do you spell sex 'secks'? TIAHerman

Oh I have seen it spelled that way here before so I thought it was filtered. Silly me. I'm a long time "lurker" and reader of this site. I don't post much. I learn a lot tho!K

I just gave you 5 stars for having breasts.your pal,Gm

 

[NFL Sunday Ticket]

I went camping Saturday night and our campsite was across from the bathrooms (small kids in tow). I'm not gonna lie, I spent most of the night in a chair watching people going in and out, ready to be a key witness should any hanky spanky go down.Sadly, I saw nothing and fell asleep in a chair with a beer in my lap. I woke up to hideous neck pain and a wet crotch. I'm hoping it was not pee.

don't worry, somebody probably held it for you while you peed

Do I have to tell my wife?

can your mother-in-law keep a secret?