Mark Ingram (1 Viewer)

[Breesisdaman]

http://www.saintsreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197057

Many Saints fans are thinking various things as far as what Mark Ingram's selection means to the team as this recent poll shows. Some really do not think Ingram is the best back on the Saints roster and the guy that started the Poll thinks Chris Ivory is the best back. As of now Ingram and PT are tied for the best back followed by Chris Ivory and then Bush. As for the posts in the thread, many fans see a yet another RBBC in the Saints future and are not buying the fact that Mark Ingram was drafted to be the man in New Orleans. Its quite a different take reading that board than reading Blooms column about Mark Ingram. Maybe it takes a while for Mark to separate himself from the other backs but I kind of doubt it.

 

[Eastwood]

sounds like the people polled were extremely drunk from Mardi Gras

 

[Sabertooth]

Where is Bloom's column posted?

 

[Breesisdaman]

Where is Bloom's column posted?

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2011/11bloom_movers_rb.phphttp://subscribers.footballguys.com/2011/11bloom_100_postdraft.phpJust a couple. I also read what he says in Twitter.basically he down grades Pierre Thomas, Reggie Bush, Chris Ivory, and makes the point that the Saints didn't give up a second and next year's first to continue running a committee at running back. I agree (I am sounds7 on the Saints board and thats the exact post I made there)

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

I thought you were bushisdaman?

Whoever THINKS is the best back is irrelevant, Ingram is their new toy and will be the bell cow for the foreseeable future. I can see 20+ carries for Ingram from day 1.

 

[identikit]

Those type of polls are pretty much worthless IMO.

 

[Breesisdaman]

I thought you were bushisdaman?Whoever anyone THINKS is the best back is irrelevant, Ingram is their new toy and will be the bell cow for the foreseeable future. I can see 20+ carries for Ingram from day 1.

Bushisdaman ceased to exist after the "Its been fun New Orleans" tweet

 

[Breesisdaman]

Those type of polls are pretty much worthless IMO.

Yeah I agree, I just find it a little unusual that Ingram isnt running away with that poll. Maybe there is far too many LSU fans voting with Nick Saban bias. Thats the only logical conclusion I can reach.

 

[Todem]

It is Ingrams job...plain as day. PT will have a decent role but Bush is gone unless he takes a massive pay cut.

 

[Couch Potato]

If you listen to the fans, pretty soon you'll be sitting with them.

-- Marv Levy

 

[sihaokills]

The fans are no doubt stupid

 

[saintfool]

i see the same two-back role for PT and Ingram that was so effective for the Saints their superbowl run. ingram and PT will work in tandem with ingram likely being the GL back. Pierre catches the ball really well and knows how to work the screens that Payton runs. ingram might get there in time but it's a tall order right out of the gate. ivory might stick around after pierre is traded/cut but his inability to catch a pass really hurts the offense. fans that think he was the #1 going into this season - before the draft obviously - forget how much of the playbook was lost with him on the field.

 

[guderian]

From looking at the poll, the vast majority of people said that they were withholding judgement until they see Ingram play and of those that voted, Ingram was in the lead followed by Pierre Thomas and Ivory. Since Thomas and Ivory have both posted a season with over 5 yards per carry in the last couple years, I don't think it's reasonable to expect to see Ingram as the unanimous choice.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

Yeah I can't really picture Ingram getting more than 12-15 touches per game with Thomas there. You guys were probably drafting Ryan Mathews in the first round last year too.

 

[Jeff Haseley]

I am not as convinced that Ingram will be getting 20+ carries a game. He may be the Saints new toy on offense, but when has Sean Payton and the Saints used just one RB in their offense? You have to go back to 2006 with Deuce McAllister, Payton's rookie year as HC.

Saints 100+ carry rushers by year

2010 - 1, Chris Ivory 137 carries

2009 - 2, Mike Bell 172, Pierre Thomas 147

2008 - 3, Pierre Thomas, 129, Deuce McAllister 107, Reggie Bush 106

2007 - 2 Reggie Bush 157, Aaron Steck 114

2006 - 1 Deuce McAllister 244

Since McAllister's 244 carry season in 2006, only 8 times has a Saints RB reached 20 carries in a game.

Heading into 2011 the Saints have Ingram, Thomas, Ivory and Bush on their roster. Unless their roster gets thinner at RB, I am not a big fan of Ingram as a fantasy RB1. I would not be surprised to see Ingram lead the team in carries, but I don't think he'll be the only one with 100+ rushes for the team. Can he be a big fantasy producer? Yes. Will he be a Top 5 or even Top 10 type of back? I am not so sure.

Here's the lowest number of carries for a RB in the Top 10 (non PPR) in the last five years

2010 - #8 LeSean McCoy 207 carries 221 FP

2009 - #9 Joseph Addai 219 carries 201 FP

2008 - #9 Maurice Jones Drew carries 197 223 FP

2007 - #7 Marion Barber 204 carries 198 FP

2006 - #8 Maurice Jones Drew 166 carries 228 FP

It's possible Ingram could be the primary source of receptions for the Saints backfield. If that's the case, he has an excellent chance of being a Top 10 back. Each of the backs listed above had high reception totals (at least 44 recs). The question is - will he be the primary receiving back? If Reggie Bush returns, those chances seem less likely. As of right now, I'd rank Ingram as a Top 20 RB, but really nothing higher than Top 12.

 

[fruity pebbles]

I am not as convinced that Ingram will be getting 20+ carries a game. He may be the Saints new toy on offense, but when has Sean Payton and the Saints used just one RB in their offense? You have to go back to 2006 with Deuce McAllister, Payton's rookie year as HC.

Saints 100+ carry rushers by year

2010 - 1, Chris Ivory 137 carries

2009 - 2, Mike Bell 172, Pierre Thomas 147

2008 - 3, Pierre Thomas, 129, Deuce McAllister 107, Reggie Bush 106

2007 - 2 Reggie Bush 157, Aaron Steck 114

2006 - 1 Deuce McAllister 244

Since McAllister's 244 carry season in 2006, only 8 times has a Saints RB reached 20 carries in a game.

Heading into 2011 the Saints have Ingram, Thomas, Ivory and Bush on their roster. Unless their roster gets thinner at RB, I am not a big fan of Ingram as a fantasy RB1. I would not be surprised to see Ingram lead the team in carries, but I don't think he'll be the only one with 100+ rushes for the team. Can he be a big fantasy producer? Yes. Will he be a Top 5 or even Top 10 type of back? I am not so sure.

Here's the lowest number of carries for a RB in the Top 10 (non PPR) in the last five years

2010 - #8 LeSean McCoy 207 carries 221 FP

2009 - #9 Joseph Addai 219 carries 201 FP

2008 - #9 Maurice Jones Drew carries 197 223 FP

2007 - #7 Marion Barber 204 carries 198 FP

2006 - #8 Maurice Jones Drew 166 carries 228 FP

It's possible Ingram could be the primary source of receptions for the Saints backfield. If that's the case, he has an excellent chance of being a Top 10 back. Each of the backs listed above had high reception totals (at least 44 recs). The question is - will he be the primary receiving back? If Reggie Bush returns, those chances seem less likely. As of right now, I'd rank Ingram as a Top 20 RB, but really nothing higher than Top 12.

All of those guys werent very good though or got injured during the season, reducing their numbers of touches.

 

[Instinctive]

I think Ingram will be in on the GL as well - Ivory fumbles too much to trust him there.

 

[Breesisdaman]

I think Ingram will be in on the GL as well - Ivory fumbles too much to trust him there.

Not to mention Ivory being back there tells the opposing defense you are going to run.

 

[adrenaline]

Even AP & CJ shared the rock in their rookie seasons, I think people that expect Ingram to be a bell cow from day one are going to be disappointed. I expect him to have the most carries on the team, but there isn't going to be as many available in NO as there was in Min & Ten.

 

[cvnpoka]

Where is Bloom's column posted?

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2011/11bloom_movers_rb.phphttp://subscribers.footballguys.com/2011/11bloom_100_postdraft.php

Just a couple. I also read what he says in Twitter.

basically he down grades Pierre Thomas, Reggie Bush, Chris Ivory, and makes the point that the Saints didn't give up a second and next year's first to continue running a committee at running back. I agree (I am sounds7 on the Saints board and thats the exact post I made there)

i would trust that the saints are going to implement a backfield situation that they feel is best for winning football games. theres plenty of circumstantial evidence backing the argument that ingram is the most talented back and will be the most effective. ill even go as far as to say that ingram will be "given every chance" to be the lead back. but, ultimately, ingram has to earn the role by outperforming the rest and making plays on the field. i dont think its unreasonable for someone to hold the viewpoint that ingram wont accomplish that.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

basically he down grades Pierre Thomas, Reggie Bush, Chris Ivory, and makes the point that the Saints didn't give up a second and next year's first to continue running a committee at running back. I agree (I am sounds7 on the Saints board and thats the exact post I made there)

While I agree with the general point that Ingram will be the bellcow, can we stop this particular argument already? This whole "teams don't give up xxxx to get a committee back or complimentary player or whatever" stuff. Teams do it all the freaking time.

 

[menobrown]

I just don't see Ingram being the bell cow, it's just not Payton's style.

He's been a head coach or offensive coordinator for 11 straight seasons now. Only twice has his lead back garnered more than 60% of the teams total rushing attempts. Once was Tiki Barber who finally got over 60% of the carries but it was pretty clear the Giants preferred to go RBBC as they almost stubbornly kept running the far less effective Ron Dayne for two whole seasons before finally giving Tiki the lions share of carries. The only other time a lead back got more than 60% of the attempts was Troy Hambrick the year after the Cowboys released Emmit and they had almost no other viable options.

Pierre has been an effective player when healthy, Ivory was extremely effective last year and than the chance Reggie returns. Ivory might get lost in the shuffle here since he's so limited in the passing game but PT is going to get his and Reggie will as well if he returns.

Only way I see Ingram being a bell cow is if attrition hits the RB spot which with this group is very likely considering all 4 of them have suffered fairly lengthy recovery time injuries over the past 2 years. Bad news is part of the Ingrams perceived draft drop was his knee.

As for the point about people drawing a line about spending a high pick on a guy meaning he must be a bell cow. History suggests otherwise. They spend a much higher pick on Reggie and proceeded to give Mcallister considerably more carries and more total touches than Reggie. They also paid Reggie around $8 million last year to be part of a RBBC so with this team it does not appear either draft pedigree or money paid has anything to do with you being the bell cow RB.

 

[TheWheel]

I think PT and Ingram are going to end the season pretty close in carries with the hot hand taking over more of the duties. Bush's odds of staying around are based on how much money he is willing to give up. He isn't going to find a much better situation. Ivory is the insurance.

Ingram could be Duece Jr.

 

[eakfootball]

Those type of polls are pretty much worthless IMO.

I agree, people don't usually put their real opinion, just the one that will cause the most controversy.

 

[Instinctive]

The thing is, Ingram doesn't need 20+ carries and bellcow status to be a top RB. All he needs is 200-250 total touches, and even then if he is the guy who gets TDs, he can easily be top ten a la MJD back when Taylor was in Jacksonville.

If PT and Ivory combine to make up a similar amount of workload as Taylor did then, Ingram could be a very valuable piece of a fantasy team.

 

[ThePittbully]

I think the talent of Ingram is going to win out in this situation. IMO he's going to be head and shoulders above the competition in this stable of backs and Payton will likely still continue a RBBC, but Ingram will earn the majority of time as the season progresses. That's what I think anyway, by the end of the season I would expect something like a 60/40 split at least. On top of that, as already mentioned by some, I think he's going to be the goal line guy and that means plenty of scoring opportunities.

 

[shortbow]

I think the talent of Ingram is going to win out in this situation. IMO he's going to be head and shoulders above the competition in this stable of backs and Payton will likely still continue a RBBC, but Ingram will earn the majority of time as the season progresses. That's what I think anyway, by the end of the season I would expect something like a 60/40 split at least. On top of that, as already mentioned by some, I think he's going to be the goal line guy and that means plenty of scoring opportunities.

This is what everyone thought and still thinks about Charles and Jones in KC. They will still be a committee and they will still be close to 50/50

 

[fruity pebbles]

I think the talent of Ingram is going to win out in this situation. IMO he's going to be head and shoulders above the competition in this stable of backs and Payton will likely still continue a RBBC, but Ingram will earn the majority of time as the season progresses. That's what I think anyway, by the end of the season I would expect something like a 60/40 split at least. On top of that, as already mentioned by some, I think he's going to be the goal line guy and that means plenty of scoring opportunities.

This is what everyone thought and still thinks about Charles and Jones in KC. They will still be a committee and they will still be close to 50/50

Little different situation don't you think?

 

[menobrown]

I think the talent of Ingram is going to win out in this situation. IMO he's going to be head and shoulders above the competition in this stable of backs and Payton will likely still continue a RBBC, but Ingram will earn the majority of time as the season progresses. That's what I think anyway, by the end of the season I would expect something like a 60/40 split at least. On top of that, as already mentioned by some, I think he's going to be the goal line guy and that means plenty of scoring opportunities.

This is what everyone thought and still thinks about Charles and Jones in KC. They will still be a committee and they will still be close to 50/50

Little different situation don't you think?

Yes. Charles just has to contend with Jones while Ingram has to deal with PT, Ivory and maybe Bush. That and Charles is a proven NFL star while at this point we only think Ingram might be.

 

[Instinctive]

I think the talent of Ingram is going to win out in this situation. IMO he's going to be head and shoulders above the competition in this stable of backs and Payton will likely still continue a RBBC, but Ingram will earn the majority of time as the season progresses. That's what I think anyway, by the end of the season I would expect something like a 60/40 split at least. On top of that, as already mentioned by some, I think he's going to be the goal line guy and that means plenty of scoring opportunities.

This is what everyone thought and still thinks about Charles and Jones in KC. They will still be a committee and they will still be close to 50/50

Little different situation don't you think?

Yes. Charles just has to contend with Jones while Ingram has to deal with PT, Ivory and maybe Bush. That and Charles is a proven NFL star while at this point we only think Ingram might be.

1. Charles is a completely different type of back than Ingram.2. Charles is a top 5 dynasty back, and he scores like it too3. If Ingram produced like Charles does he would be well worth the 1.01 and I would be ecstatic.4. What point are you guys trying to make here, short/meno?

 

[Breesisdaman]

I am wondering as this discussion goes on if the Saints, feeling they put too much pressure on Bush to replace Deuce and be the man might learn from such mistakes and ease Ingram into it so as to not put too much on his shoulders too soon. You know be cautious with him so to speak. Or is Ingram going to make it impossible for them to have any thoughts of easing him into it. I think Ingram wants to be the man and will earn it on the field and not with any pre NFL hype like Bush had although Ingram is hyped and has a Heisman trophy of his own. Ingram doesn't have any where near the expectations and hype Bush had.

 

[menobrown]

4. What point are you guys trying to make here, short/meno?

That Ingram is in a worse situation and is not a proven NFL player like Charles.

 

[menobrown]

feeling they put to much pressure on Bush to replace Deuce and be the man might learn from such mistakes and ease Ingram into it so as to not put too much on his shoulders too soon.

Reggie Bush year one: 16 games, 155 carries, 88 receptions.Duece Mcallister during Reggie's rookie year: 15 games, 244 carries, 30 receptions.So Duece played one less game than Reggie but had 89 more carries and 31 more touches. Than in Reggies second year the season started with Reggie and Deuce basically splitting carries almost dead even before Duece got hurt.I don't know how anyone can see that as anything other than a RBBC and leaves me needing to ask you how you interpret that as the Saints having put to much pressure on Reggie to replace Duece?

 

[shortbow]

I think the talent of Ingram is going to win out in this situation. IMO he's going to be head and shoulders above the competition in this stable of backs and Payton will likely still continue a RBBC, but Ingram will earn the majority of time as the season progresses. That's what I think anyway, by the end of the season I would expect something like a 60/40 split at least. On top of that, as already mentioned by some, I think he's going to be the goal line guy and that means plenty of scoring opportunities.

This is what everyone thought and still thinks about Charles and Jones in KC. They will still be a committee and they will still be close to 50/50

Little different situation don't you think?

Perhaps I should have bolded what I was referring too. People have been saying this about charles since preseason last year, its not the case, unless PT gets hurt again, or Ingram blows PT completely away which is unlikely in NO he will be the 40 and likely the 10-20% with Ivory getting the other 10-20%.

 

[Go deep]

I am amazed at how many people actually think there is going to be a full blown RBBC in NO this season.

The only way it happens is if Ingram is not as good as advertised(which is possible) or he gets hurt. Assuming he is the back that NO hoped when they drafted him in the first round, he will get at least 60% of the RB touches.

The only reason the NO backfield seems deep is because they havnt had anyone good enough to take the starting job. Does anyone think if Adrian Peterson or even Rashard Mendehall were in NO last year there would have been a full RBBC?

Reggie Bush averaged 4.5 carries a game last year, and that was without Ingram there and injuries to their other backs. Ivory didnt have a carry until Thomas got hurt in week 3. Thomas averaged 3.2 YPC last year. How anyone thinks this team is deep at RB is beyond me. It seems pretty clear that NO is/was in desperate need for a starting RB and they addressed it by selecting the best RB in the draft.

 

[menobrown]

I am amazed at how many people actually think there is going to be a full blown RBBC in NO this season.

And I"m amazed that people actually think it's not going to be a full blown RBBC. I just don't see how people continue to ignore 11 years of data on how Payton uses his RB's.

 

[Go deep]

I am amazed at how many people actually think there is going to be a full blown RBBC in NO this season.

And I"m amazed that people actually think it's not going to be a full blown RBBC. I just don't see how people continue to ignore 11 years of data on how Payton uses his RB's.

I didnt ignore it, i just read it differently. Who has he had since Deuce(at the end of his career) that could carry a full load? Mcallister has 274 touches in 15 games in Paytons first year with the Saints. I expect at least a similar workload for Ingram this season....of course assuming Ingram is as good as people think, and stays healthy. ETA. Disclaimer, with the lockout, there might not be enough time for rookies to fully grasp the offense which could cost Ingram playing time early in his rookie season.

 

[cobalt_27]

I am amazed at how many people actually think there is going to be a full blown RBBC in NO this season.

And I"m amazed that people actually think it's not going to be a full blown RBBC. I just don't see how people continue to ignore 11 years of data on how Payton uses his RB's.

I'm not at all. They didn't give up a #2 and a #1 next year in the hopes of Ingram being part of a committee. They could have filled that through FA. He's not going to get Emmitt Smith type carries, obviously. But, I definitely see him getting upwards 300 carries by Y2.

 

[menobrown]

I am amazed at how many people actually think there is going to be a full blown RBBC in NO this season.

And I"m amazed that people actually think it's not going to be a full blown RBBC. I just don't see how people continue to ignore 11 years of data on how Payton uses his RB's.

I didnt ignore it, i just read it differently. Who has he had since Deuce(at the end of his career) that could carry a full load? Mcallister has 274 touches in 15 games in Paytons first year with the Saints. I expect at least a similar workload for Ingram this season....of course assuming Ingram is as good as people think, and stays healthy. ETA. Disclaimer, with the lockout, there might not be enough time for rookies to fully grasp the offense which could cost Ingram playing time early in his rookie season.

That's fair enough. We might just have a different opinion of what we think of as a RBBC.I do think Ingram is going to have value and while I would forecast him for a smaller role I can certainly see him getting a workload similar to what we saw a healthy Duece receive. But the year Duece got 244 carries equated to 52% of the teams total rushing attempts so I still view that as a RBBC.

 

[Go deep]

I am amazed at how many people actually think there is going to be a full blown RBBC in NO this season.

And I"m amazed that people actually think it's not going to be a full blown RBBC. I just don't see how people continue to ignore 11 years of data on how Payton uses his RB's.

I'm not at all. They didn't give up a #2 and a #1 next year in the hopes of Ingram being part of a committee. They could have filled that through FA. He's not going to get Emmitt Smith type carries, obviously. But, I definitely see him getting upwards 300 carries by Y2.

Yeah, im not at all concerned that Payton has used a RBBC over the past few years. Thats no surprise with guys like Pierre Thomas, Mike Bell, Lynell Hamilton, and Chris Ivory at RB(I dont count Bush because he is more a WR/KR than RB.).

 

[menobrown]

I am amazed at how many people actually think there is going to be a full blown RBBC in NO this season.

And I"m amazed that people actually think it's not going to be a full blown RBBC. I just don't see how people continue to ignore 11 years of data on how Payton uses his RB's.

I'm not at all. They didn't give up a #2 and a #1 next year in the hopes of Ingram being part of a committee. They could have filled that through FA. He's not going to get Emmitt Smith type carries, obviously. But, I definitely see him getting upwards 300 carries by Y2.

What a tired argument. They gave up the second pick of the draft for Reggie and did not make him a feature back.

 

[Go deep]

I am amazed at how many people actually think there is going to be a full blown RBBC in NO this season.

And I"m amazed that people actually think it's not going to be a full blown RBBC. I just don't see how people continue to ignore 11 years of data on how Payton uses his RB's.

I didnt ignore it, i just read it differently. Who has he had since Deuce(at the end of his career) that could carry a full load? Mcallister has 274 touches in 15 games in Paytons first year with the Saints. I expect at least a similar workload for Ingram this season....of course assuming Ingram is as good as people think, and stays healthy. ETA. Disclaimer, with the lockout, there might not be enough time for rookies to fully grasp the offense which could cost Ingram playing time early in his rookie season.

That's fair enough. We might just have a different opinion of what we think of as a RBBC.I do think Ingram is going to have value and while I would forecast him for a smaller role I can certainly see him getting a workload similar to what we saw a healthy Duece receive. But the year Duece got 244 carries equated to 52% of the teams total rushing attempts so I still view that as a RBBC.

I think there will be a RBBC in NO this year, as there will be on every team in the NFL. I just dont think it will be the type of RBBC we have seen in NO over the past 4 or 5 years(since Deuce was healthy).

 

[cobalt_27]

I am amazed at how many people actually think there is going to be a full blown RBBC in NO this season.

And I"m amazed that people actually think it's not going to be a full blown RBBC. I just don't see how people continue to ignore 11 years of data on how Payton uses his RB's.

I'm not at all. They didn't give up a #2 and a #1 next year in the hopes of Ingram being part of a committee. They could have filled that through FA. He's not going to get Emmitt Smith type carries, obviously. But, I definitely see him getting upwards 300 carries by Y2.

What a tired argument. They gave up the second pick of the draft for Reggie and did not make him a feature back.

An alternative hypothesis is that he never turned into the back they thought he might become and was oft-injured. Ingram is a completely different type of back.

 

[Breesisdaman]

What a tired argument. They gave up the second pick of the draft for Reggie and did not make him a feature back.

Reggie Bush was supposed to be the second coming of Gale Sayers. He played his way into a committee IMO. He should have become the man if you believed the pre draft hype. I dont think Sean Payton ever intended on Bush being a change of pace back lost in RBBC. Reggie couldnt take the every down pounding but Ingram? probably so.

 

[Go deep]

I am amazed at how many people actually think there is going to be a full blown RBBC in NO this season.

And I"m amazed that people actually think it's not going to be a full blown RBBC. I just don't see how people continue to ignore 11 years of data on how Payton uses his RB's.

I'm not at all. They didn't give up a #2 and a #1 next year in the hopes of Ingram being part of a committee. They could have filled that through FA. He's not going to get Emmitt Smith type carries, obviously. But, I definitely see him getting upwards 300 carries by Y2.

What a tired argument. They gave up the second pick of the draft for Reggie and did not make him a feature back.

A tired argument is better than a terrible one. Do you think the Saints would have taken Bush that high had they known how bad of a runner he would turn out to be?

 

[Go deep]

What a tired argument. They gave up the second pick of the draft for Reggie and did not make him a feature back.

Reggie Bush was supposed to be the second coming of Gale Sayers. He played his way into a committee IMO. He should have become the man if you believed the pre draft hype. I dont think Sean Payton ever intended on Bush being a change of pace back lost in RBBC. Reggie couldnt take the every down pounding but Ingram? probably so.

Reggie may not have been able to take an every down pounding, but i bet the Saints thought he could be the type of player that Jamaal Charles or Lesean Mccoy are, i know i did.

 

[menobrown]

I am amazed at how many people actually think there is going to be a full blown RBBC in NO this season.

And I"m amazed that people actually think it's not going to be a full blown RBBC. I just don't see how people continue to ignore 11 years of data on how Payton uses his RB's.

I'm not at all. They didn't give up a #2 and a #1 next year in the hopes of Ingram being part of a committee. They could have filled that through FA. He's not going to get Emmitt Smith type carries, obviously. But, I definitely see him getting upwards 300 carries by Y2.

What a tired argument. They gave up the second pick of the draft for Reggie and did not make him a feature back.

An alternative hypothesis is that he never turned into the back they thought he might become and was oft-injured. Ingram is a completely different type of back.

Yes Ingram is a different back but Reggie was plenty healthy that first year but certainly not very effective as a runner.But if we are going to analyze effectiveness I ask you to examine his 3 year tenure as Giants OC. First two years was a RBBC approach despite the fact that Barber was clearly superior to Dayne. Barber did not start getting bulk of carries until year 3 which also happened to be the year Payton was stripped of his playing duties after week 7 I believe. In 7 weeks under Payton that year Tiki averaged just over 16 carries a game. In the 9 weeks after he lost play calling duties Tiki's usage spiked to 21 rushing attempts per game.

 

[KellysHeroes]

if they want to replace 2 RBs with knee problems with a bellcow; then why trade back into the 1st round for an RB with knee problems...

It was a bad move IMO, they could of gotten just as good as an RB with their 2nd.

And if your going to Rate a player based on the trade a team made for them than Julio Jones is 1.01 by a wide margin.

I much rather Green and Jones before Ingram

 

[menobrown]

What a tired argument. They gave up the second pick of the draft for Reggie and did not make him a feature back.

Reggie Bush was supposed to be the second coming of Gale Sayers. He played his way into a committee IMO. He should have become the man if you believed the pre draft hype. I dont think Sean Payton ever intended on Bush being a change of pace back lost in RBBC. Reggie couldnt take the every down pounding but Ingram? probably so.

I disagree. Mcallister was still very much a very effective player when they drafted Reggie. Feel the plan all along was to use them both.

 

[Breesisdaman]

As much as it pains me to say. McAllister was just not in Sean Paytons plans. He was one of Jim Haslett's guys. Payton drafted Bush to replace Deuce IMO not to share the backfield with him. I think Deuce won him over however. But Payton pretty much turned over most of that Jim Haslett team from the year before. Guys like Joe horn, Stallworth, Aaron Brooks all shown the door. (Justified) Deuce was not such an easy out because he was a fan favorite. Even though Payton accepted him in the end I still think if Deuce had remained healthy in the following years he would have been traded or allowed to walk as a FA.