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Mark Ingram (3 Viewers)
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Synthesizer
Footballguy
Good call on this. With this big game he should get in to the top 10 RBs for the year.Its just too bad he's not a stud RB.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Holy crap. I have Snead too.
snead, Ingram, Thomas and Brees working out this week!
snead, Ingram, Thomas and Brees working out this week!
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Nice call on playing all Saints this week. So hard to call who gets the points in the WR crew, but seems like everyone is getting theirs today.Holy crap. I have Snead too.
snead, Ingram, Thomas and Brees working out this week!
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
NeverEnough
Footballguy
Hmm, maybe I should not trade him
That's pathetic. He's a plodding old man. Ingram 10 ypc.Hightower still had more touches than Ingram.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Yet somehow Ingram with a 31.7 day and Hightower with only 19.5
seems pretty effective though....
that Rams D might not be #1 ranked after today. Guess it's true that you're only as good as your last game.
Im running Hightower out at flex here on out. Starting the entire Saints O but Fleener & Cooks.
Bugg
Footballguy
I posted a few pages back about trying to trade him all season in a dynasty rebuild. I never got any offers that I thought were worth taking. Last week, I sent out an offer asking for Alshon Jeffery in return. Guy could not make up his mind with the concussion tag hanging on him most of the week. I got a message at half time of the NO game that he would accept the offer. I sold. Think I did the right thing for my rebuild team, but it still feels...?Magic_Man said:
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Think I benched him twice this year. He's got around 66 points in those two games.belljr said:
And this is the problem.Think I benched him twice this year. He's got around 66 points in those two games.
There was no way I was starting him this week. Supposed tough run D. Coming off a concussion. "Logic" had many thinking Hightower would get the lion's share.
Of course, nope.
So now we'll all start him next week in what looks to be a great matchup.
But the stars will most likely lose alignment and Ingram will go 16-49-0; 3-18, Hightower gets 2 TDs.
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
"Logic" should have had many thinking this is a full-blown RBBC and has been for about a month. Because that's the reality, matchup/concussion thing aside. Expecting anything different after at least 3 or 4 weeks of this is trying to trick yourself into something that isn't really there.
This is completely a committee situation and likely will be for the foreseeable unless one of the two gets hurt.
As was already mentioned, the answer is probably "If you can afford to start both, you should probably start both." They each seem to be getting at least in the neighborhood of 15 touches a week in an explosive offense and seem to be rotated in the RZ so could have a shot at TDs. Their upcoming schedule looks good, etc.
By no means am I advocating for what Payton is doing, just pointing out he IS doing this; he is splitting the touches relatively evenly when both guys dress. Expecting either of them to turn into a consistent 20+ touch guy when both are active is probably a pipe dream.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I don't think anyone here expects that at this point. and we're all extremely aware of the situation. There's 20 pages of folks discussing exactly that.
i've got both and have started both a couple of times now to favorable results.
The frustration you're seeing from some folks over the last few pages is the same frustration they've had all year. They'd love to see Ingram get 25 touches on a weekly basis.
We all now know he won't, but it's a bit weird that he doesn't, though as you say, the results are positive so Payton will continue to do it, and we owners can continue to benefit from it.
The challenge for me is that it puts all my eggs into one basket with way too many Saints, and that scares me for week 15 (playoffs) when they're AT AZ and I'll have 5 Saints in my lineup at QB, WR1, WR2, RB2 & Flex.
for now I think Ingram owners are thrilled with these huge games. With a long layoff and a full week of practice I thought he was a good start. And while I hate to be the "if only you take away that play" guy, but 12 of Hightowet'a 19.x points came on a 50 yard touchdown pass from a WR while they were up multiple scores. Kinda flukey. Hightower could have easily had a 7 point game.
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NeverEnough
Footballguy
drfeelgood
Footballguy
I think Peyton will continue to use both Ingram and Hightower, but Ingram will more than likely get the most points simply because he is better.
belljr
Footballguy
Same 2 games for meThink I benched him twice this year. He's got around 66 points in those two games.
Hu-Tang Clan
Footballguy
MattFancy
Footballguy
For real haha. I just don't get what he sees in Hightower. Ingram has done so much more with the same or less amount of touches. No reason Hightower should be getting 15+ carries a game.
thatguythere
Footballguy
Lions have given up two rushing TD's all year. One to Lamar Miller in week 8 and one to the assman on Thanksgiving.
thatguythere
Footballguy
Who in their right mind wouldn't have benched him this week if they had legit other options? All we heard about is how he was knocked out, concussion protocol, blah, blah.
I played Jennings in a cakewalk matchup and got burned.
I played Jennings in a cakewalk matchup and got burned.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I guess I'm not in my right mind because I started him in 2 leagues and also had Hightower, Smallwood, Powell and either Asiata or McKinnon to choose from. So I guess it depends on how you define "legit". Many apparently started Hightower over him. I was going to do that, but swapped out a couple hours before the game because Ingram said he was fine, he got cleared and he's the guy I spent a 2nd round pick on in one league and traded for in another. So I chose to live and die with my top player over the backup who might get play.
That's ok - I'll take my "wrong mind" 31.7 points to the bank.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
To be fair, he only had 1 "0" week, when he got benched.
Orherwise his swings are well within the norms for a strong RB2/borderline RB1 on a weekly basis.
Most weeks his floor was ~10
He's had a couple 30+ point monsters and the rest are in the 14-22 range.
As my RB2 I couldn't be happier. I don't see how you can feel good about missing such a huge game from him, but then it depends on what you dealt him for.
I rolled him out there with confidence.
I also somehow benched him the game he fumbled and was benched, and the game he was knocked out in. I didn't like the match-ups and went with my gut on both. But I also started him the week he blew up against SF. I've been right with this guy this year, which is probably why I don't feel too disappointed by him.
My team is a literal monster. Brees, DJ, Bell, Fat Rob as my flex (Ingrams and Ware's old spot), Mike Evans, T, Willams and now Watkins back(might be the flex now). It is a super flex league keeper league so I traded Ingram and Ware for Russel Wilson as my second QB. Stafford was not cutting the mustard anymore. Ingram has had 6 single digit games and 5 double digit games in standard scoring. That is not acceptable. Last year's Ingram was awesome. This year's version is unpredictable. Not his fault really. Payton is who he is and really kills Ingram's value.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
ny team is better than yours and ingram is just fine.
in PPR he's been a great RB2.
Fat Rob gonna break your heart down the stretch against all those great run defenses.
My plan is to start him the rest of the season, so roll with himLet us know when you decide to bench him.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
Exactly. The rub is he's still giving Hightower as many, or more, touches. It's never really been in question that Ingram's the superior player(well, at least not to anyone not on the Saints payroll, I guess).Yeah, except Hightower still gets more touches.
Due to injuries and ineffectiveness(looking at you, Jeremy Hill), I've been starting both in the league where I own the pair since the Niners game. I assume each week it's going to blow up on me, (because...Payton) but so far it's worked out okay. Doesn't make me comfortable, but I'm going to keep doing it as long as both keep scoring.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I'm doing the same.
this week at home vs the Lions? I'm rolling out Brees, Ingram, Thomas and Hightower at Flex...would love to get Snead in my lineup too, but with M.Evans & Moncrief I just don't have a spot.
I think Cooks gets some love this week after his doughnut, so for now Hightower gets the nod over Snead at Flex since he's gonna get his 14+ touches and possible GL action.
I'd saddle up even more Saints if I had em.
Hu-Tang Clan
Footballguy
Hightower is no where near as effective as Ingram with his touches and we all know that and I assume Payton knows that. I'm guessing there is something that Payton sees/knows that makes him limit the touches Ingram gets to keep him as effective as he's been and also fresh. Maybe he thinks that 20+ touches is his breakdown point or something.
Rodrigo Duterte
Footballguy
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Have a tough time choosing 3 RBs to run this weekend between Ingram, Ware, Lat. Murray and Booker. My sense is to start Ingram against the Lions at home, and sit Murray as he has the hardest matchup of all 4 backs, but then playing the matchups with these guys has not been effective given coaching decisions on how workload is split, these RBs occasionally crapping the bed even against favorable matchups, etc.
Not sure I can bench Ingram after a weekend like that tho.
Not sure I can bench Ingram after a weekend like that tho.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
IMO Murray is the no-brainer bench between those two. He has the toughest matchup, and he splits carries. Ingram has a higher floor and ceiling based on offense and SOS this week. One man's opinion, and of course I'm often wrong, but that's my gut take on this.
That said, Ware didn't get as much love against Denver as folks expected and I've not been following Booker as closely. So I'm speaking only to the Murray/Ingram question.
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5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
Ingram gets a start easily, IMO, as long as Brees is healthy and active. With Drew at QB none of their backs are ever facing a stacked box. It's prolly the primary reason Ingram can be as productive as he has been on his touches(ditto, THT).
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Have almost the exact same decision (minus Ware as an option).Stompin' Tom Connors said:
One thing to note: DET vs the run is not a slam dunk matchup. I also have Hightower. A lot of people are thinking of starting both Ingram and Hightower. I think this would be unwise.
It's hard to sit Murray now. That offense is rolling, they're at home, Carr with finger issue could mean more running, and they've finally whittled down the backfield to Murray and Richard as a change of pace. Read some statistic that Murray is running a lot of pass patterns as well. In short, this guy is getting the touches.
Ingram vs. Booker is tougher. Ingram has tons of upside, but this feels like the classic trap again. Game after a blow up (where everyone benches him), so now we all go in and...Payton screws everyone and the inexplicable takes place. For example, T. Cadet (who has been inactive) plays a big role in the passing game and lowers Ingram's floor and ceiling. I'm not impressed with Booker BUT I think the game script will favor Denver. I can't see JAX moving the ball AT ALL. Turnovers. 3 and outs. Could mean several opportunities for Booker.
I'm tempted to just go Murray and Ingram. I drafted both in this particular league, hated hitting the draft button with both of them, and in a win and get in situation I'm just thinking I should sleep in the bed I made months ago.
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Pigskin Fanatic
Footballguy
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
same here on both of the points quoted. and i'm probably running murray and ingram as well, have hyde as an option too but doubtful i consider him over the other two. careful Tom, i'm almost tempted to sit him because he had a week like that. it's the charlie brown syndrome. hightower probably ends up with 30 carries for 5 td's this week against detroit. with murray, his usage has been great, though it is a tough matchup coming up. since his big game against Denver, though, i've been less inclined to even look at his matchup. lower ceiling than ingram, but higher floor than many many rb's out there.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
You have to think hightower can't have too many more years and him…
Hard to say based on the cluster that has been his season, but I would say he has potential to pay off valuing him at that ranking, yes.
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5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
THT's a free agent at year's end, IIRC. Also has to be around 31 or 32 by the time next seasons rolls around. I expect he'll be gone. The rub is Payton is probably going to bring in Timmy 2.0, whomever that may be, so little will change. Hell, it may wind up being Lasco.
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massraider
Footballguy
Maybe, until the draft.
I have him on a dynasty team and sure don't think of him that way. And no one will give me that kind of return, I would bet.
