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Mark Ingram (2 Viewers)

Chaka said:
Alvin Kamara? Really? Guy rushes for 600 yards with 35 catches per year at at Tennessee and now he's going to steal significant touches from a legitimate triple-threat like Ingram? 

Not seeing it.
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Peyton will give him goal line over Ingram

 
I'd be curious to know for those who owned Ingram last year, how many of you are actually interested in drafting this guy again?

And if you are interested, my next question would be: Why would you do that to yourself?

 
Alright well you guys just confirmed he was a terrible pick for me in the 5th round in a 12 team PPR. He's a flex/bench player for me so I don't have to rely on him as a starter. 

 
kyoun1e said:
I'd be curious to know for those who owned Ingram last year, how many of you are actually interested in drafting this guy again?

And if you are interested, my next question would be: Why would you do that to yourself?
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The way I see it, AP is done and will get hurt, just be ineffective or his fumbling issues will land him on the pine. Which should give Ingram a decent amount of touches. 2 years ago, he was really effective in the passing game which gave him a huge boost in PPR. I don't see how a rookie or AP is going to take that away from him. Now will he be a top 10 back? probably not, but will he be top 15-20, i would say there is a very good chance of that. 

Who are you taking in that late 5th - late 6th over Ingram as an RB? 

I have owned him for the past 2 years, FWIW. 

 
candian fantasy guy said:
The way I see it, AP is done and will get hurt, just be ineffective or his fumbling issues will land him on the pine. Which should give Ingram a decent amount of touches. 2 years ago, he was really effective in the passing game which gave him a huge boost in PPR. I don't see how a rookie or AP is going to take that away from him. Now will he be a top 10 back? probably not, but will he be top 15-20, i would say there is a very good chance of that. 

Who are you taking in that late 5th - late 6th over Ingram as an RB? 

I have owned him for the past 2 years, FWIW. 
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no one.  much rather have a wr or graham with how i draft.  i agree the rbs are garbage there.  why take any of them

 
kyoun1e said:
I'd be curious to know for those who owned Ingram last year, how many of you are actually interested in drafting this guy again?

And if you are interested, my next question would be: Why would you do that to yourself?
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I am way off Ingram this year.  I have owned him in the past and he's been decent for me.  But this year with AP and kamara I'm out.  I I could get him in the 10th rd maybe.  

 
candian fantasy guy said:
The way I see it, AP is done and will get hurt, just be ineffective or his fumbling issues will land him on the pine. Which should give Ingram a decent amount of touches. 2 years ago, he was really effective in the passing game which gave him a huge boost in PPR. I don't see how a rookie or AP is going to take that away from him. Now will he be a top 10 back? probably not, but will he be top 15-20, i would say there is a very good chance of that. 

Who are you taking in that late 5th - late 6th over Ingram as an RB? 

I have owned him for the past 2 years, FWIW. 
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I'll go WR if I have to.

Even if AP is done, Payton will find somebody else to steal touches.

The first and tenth time Payton does a TE sweep at the goaline instead of handing off to Ingram will drive you mad.

NO THANKS AT ANY ADP

If you want to win AND have fun with this hobby, DND.

 
Each of the last 3 seasons he's either been a top 12 overall RB, or at least top 10 or so in PPG when he's missed time.  No, he's not a top 10 RB - that's not what I'm saying. 

If you go back and look at last season, you'll see that the RBs in New Orleans, combined, had over 2,500 yards total, 126 catches and 27 TDs.  In 2015 they had 1,450 rushing yards from their RBs, with 1,034 receiving yards from 122 catches and a total of 18 TDs.  In 2014 it was 1,580 rushing yards with another 882 receiving on 120 catches with 16 total TDs. It's always around or over 2,500 yards with 120+ receptions and somewhere in the vicinity of 20 TDs (more TDs since they got rid of Graham, and now they've lost Cooks).  What I mean is that it's a pretty big total pie.  Say Ingram gets 45% of it (I think that's fair, and that's giving a lot to both a rookie and to an over the hill Peterson).  That's 1,125 yards from scrimmage, 54 receptions and 9 TDs.  Week to week, though, he could be all over the place (just like any WR would be).  If I can get that after the 5th round in a 12 teamer, sign me up all day long. 

 
He's been a top 15 ppr back despite sharing touches the last two years. I'm comfortable calling that a trend and love having him as part of my top 3 RB rotation.

 
ryno1980 said:
He's been a top 15 ppr back despite sharing touches the last two years. I'm comfortable calling that a trend and love having him as part of my top 3 RB rotation.
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Agreed. Happy that he's my #3 RB in a PPR league. Peterson is not a good pass-catcher and the Saints will struggle to run the ball with any consistency. I could see Ingram as a target monster out of the backfield.

 
Picked him up. Had the 12th pick though so unfortunately he's my RB1 with Frank Gore and CJ Anderson. Not my best backfield ever.

 
TripItUp said:
Usage does not equal talent.
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Y'know TIU you provide a lot of "hot takes" of the one-definitive-statement-absent-analysis-type. Do people find them helpful? The reason I ask is because, even if I agree with your original premise I find it difficult to take you seriously when it seems that you don't put much thought into your posts.

Do you ever do longer breakdowns of your takes? Specifically as it relates to Ingram I would love to hear more from people like you who do think he may be the third best RB on the Saints and why they think that way.

I personally find that having informed opinions from people who disagree with me to immensely helpful. Particularly for players that I may be unreasonably high, or low, on.

 
Chaka said:
Y'know TIU you provide a lot of "hot takes" of the one-definitive-statement-absent-analysis-type. Do people find them helpful? The reason I ask is because, even if I agree with your original premise I find it difficult to take you seriously when it seems that you don't put much thought into your posts.

Do you ever do longer breakdowns of your takes? Specifically as it relates to Ingram I would love to hear more from people like you who do think he may be the third best RB on the Saints and why they think that way.

I personally find that having informed opinions from people who disagree with me to immensely helpful. Particularly for players that I may be unreasonably high, or low, on.
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I don't enjoy writing out prolonged posts and prefer to keep it short and sweet.  

My opinion on Ingram is that he lost his burst last year and looked very mediocre at times. 

 
candian fantasy guy said:
The way I see it, AP is done and will get hurt, just be ineffective or his fumbling issues will land him on the pine. Which should give Ingram a decent amount of touches. 2 years ago, he was really effective in the passing game which gave him a huge boost in PPR. I don't see how a rookie or AP is going to take that away from him. Now will he be a top 10 back? probably not, but will he be top 15-20, i would say there is a very good chance of that. 

Who are you taking in that late 5th - late 6th over Ingram as an RB? 

I have owned him for the past 2 years, FWIW. 
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While I tend to agree that Peterson is closer to being done then being an all-pro - do you really think he'll be worse than Tim Hightower?

 
I love Ingram, but man is he treated like crap by the Saints.

Puts up monster numbers last year on limited usage, then benched for a fumble.

post-fumble benching puts up a career game when he finally gets the feature back touches, then goes into a timeshare. 

Finishes with a terrific overall season, is rewarded by the saints with a HOF RB to share the backfield. :doh:  

why do the saints hate Mark Ingram? 

 
Sean Peyton is crazy ... I'd not be surprised to see Kama the #1 back, ADP #2 and Ingram benched

Ingram is an awesome professional for putting up with the Saints and the way they've treated him 

 
TripItUp said:
I don't enjoy writing out prolonged posts and prefer to keep it short and sweet.  

My opinion on Ingram is that he lost his burst last year and looked very mediocre at times. 
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By "at times", do you mean occasionally, as is the case with every player in the NFL looking mediocre "at times"? Otherwise I completely disagree, I think he looked damn good last year overall and if anything he had more burst than in the past.

 
TripItUp said:
I don't enjoy writing out prolonged posts and prefer to keep it short and sweet.  

My opinion on Ingram is that he lost his burst last year and looked very mediocre at times. 
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Thank you. I am not sure the film says the same. In fact it looks like he ran stronger in the second half of the season thank he did in the first half.

Either way I appreciate the opinion.

 
Chaka said:
Don't be silly.
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You're the one that is claiming that the Saints spending a premium pick(s) on a talented pass catching back has minimum effect on Ingram when Sean Payton's history proves otherwise.

Ingram is a very good back but being dismissive of Kamara because it suits your narrative is far more silly.

 
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Dr. Octopus said:
You're the one that is claiming that the Saints spending a premium pick(s) on a talented pass catching back has minimum effect on Ingram when Sean Payton's history proves otherwise.

Ingram is a very good back but being dismissive of Kamara because it suits your narrative is far more silly.
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Okay but don't twist it into something that it clearly wasn't.  Kamara's credentials coming out of college were suspect, he was never the lead back in Tennessee. I admit that I know nothing about Jalen Hurd, but he seems massive for a RB at 6'4" 220lbs. What was his story and why was he ahead of Kamara?

Kamara has shown some ability in preseason and obviously Payton likes him well enough to have spent a third on him. Using that logic exclusively suggests that first round trumps third round, but perhaps draft position is a bit of a simplistic calculus to use to judge such things.

My only point was/is that Ingram is a known commodity who performs equally well in the running and receiving game. He is a proven, legitimate triple-threat and, as far as we know, is the only RB who opens up the entire playbook to the offense.  Most of the talk in the Kamara thread started around how he was a great receiver and would he take the Sproles/Bush/Cardet role because that role does not appear to have changed so I don't think the person occupying that role should have an impact on our expectations for Ingram in this season.

Are you suggesting Kamara will occupy a larger role than Sproles or Cadet (Ingram never played with Bush) have in the past?

In the past three seasons Ingram has had 255 (13 games), 216 (12 games) and 251 (16 games) touches per game (averages to 17.6 touches/game).  

I would love to hear how much do you see Kamara impacting Ingram? Do you think Ingram will drop below 15 touches/game because of Kamara?

 
Stealthycat said:
Sean Peyton is crazy ... I'd not be surprised to see Kama the #1 back, ADP #2 and Ingram benched

Ingram is an awesome professional for putting up with the Saints and the way they've treated him 
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He did resign there though.  While we as fantasy owners scratch our heads at the usage, maybe he buys in to what Payton is selling. Hasn't really amounted to much the last 4 seasons win wise but Ingram might be fine with the way things are.

 
Chaka said:
Okay but don't twist it into something that it clearly wasn't.  Kamara's credentials coming out of college were suspect, he was never the lead back in Tennessee. I admit that I know nothing about Jalen Hurd, but he seems massive for a RB at 6'4" 220lbs. What was his story and why was he ahead of Kamara?

Kamara has shown some ability in preseason and obviously Payton likes him well enough to have spent a third on him. Using that logic exclusively suggests that first round trumps third round, but perhaps draft position is a bit of a simplistic calculus to use to judge such things.

My only point was/is that Ingram is a known commodity who performs equally well in the running and receiving game. He is a proven, legitimate triple-threat and, as far as we know, is the only RB who opens up the entire playbook to the offense.  Most of the talk in the Kamara thread started around how he was a great receiver and would he take the Sproles/Bush/Cardet role because that role does not appear to have changed so I don't think the person occupying that role should have an impact on our expectations for Ingram in this season.

Are you suggesting Kamara will occupy a larger role than Sproles or Cadet (Ingram never played with Bush) have in the past?

In the past three seasons Ingram has had 255 (13 games), 216 (12 games) and 251 (16 games) touches per game (averages to 17.6 touches/game).  

I would love to hear how much do you see Kamara impacting Ingram? Do you think Ingram will drop below 15 touches/game because of Kamara?
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Kamara is much better than Cadet but unlikely to be better than Sproles (we'll see). Cadet is a very limited so it's not surprising that Ingram's passing game role was expanded when Cadet was the only other option - but Kamara's involvement should cut into Ingram's receptions. Peterson further complicates things.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Kamara is much better than Cadet but unlikely to be better than Sproles (we'll see). Cadet is a very limited so it's not surprising that Ingram's passing game role was expanded when Cadet was the only other option - but Kamara's involvement should cut into Ingram's receptions. Peterson further complicates things.
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I think Kamara has little impact this year.  

 
Chaka said:
Okay but don't twist it into something that it clearly wasn't.  Kamara's credentials coming out of college were suspect, he was never the lead back in Tennessee. I admit that I know nothing about Jalen Hurd, but he seems massive for a RB at 6'4" 220lbs. What was his story and why was he ahead of Kamara?

Kamara has shown some ability in preseason and obviously Payton likes him well enough to have spent a third on him. Using that logic exclusively suggests that first round trumps third round, but perhaps draft position is a bit of a simplistic calculus to use to judge such things.

My only point was/is that Ingram is a known commodity who performs equally well in the running and receiving game. He is a proven, legitimate triple-threat and, as far as we know, is the only RB who opens up the entire playbook to the offense.  Most of the talk in the Kamara thread started around how he was a great receiver and would he take the Sproles/Bush/Cardet role because that role does not appear to have changed so I don't think the person occupying that role should have an impact on our expectations for Ingram in this season.

Are you suggesting Kamara will occupy a larger role than Sproles or Cadet (Ingram never played with Bush) have in the past?

In the past three seasons Ingram has had 255 (13 games), 216 (12 games) and 251 (16 games) touches per game (averages to 17.6 touches/game).  

I would love to hear how much do you see Kamara impacting Ingram? Do you think Ingram will drop below 15 touches/game because of Kamara?
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I agree that Kamara shouldn't impact Ingram much, but it's Payton we're talking about, and he let the plodding Tim Hightower take a decent chunk of his workload, so..

 
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What is Ingram now? I kept him in my keeper league but as an RB3/4, bye week filler. He has upside, esp. with injuries, but he's inconsistent (acknowledging weird NO situation), talented but inconsistent. Intriguing player to have on the bench with upside. If he's your #2 RB, not so good.

 
I think Ingram is an easy top-20 back this year, and no more likely to be inconsistent than any other back you get around his price.  

I've had all my drafts for the year, but I had him in the same tier as Cook and Hyde and ahead of Fournette, Mixon, and Montgomery.

 
I wouldn't touch Ingram with a 10 foot pole. Much rather have Abdullah, Cook, or even Perkins.

At least I know they're going to be involved. For every 25 ingram gets you, you're going to get a 3 or a 4 or a 5. Do you start him every week? Does he drop 30 on your bench than you plug him and get 4? Those are the worst guys to own for me. 

 
packer_junkie said:
I wouldn't touch Ingram with a 10 foot pole. Much rather have Abdullah, Cook, or even Perkins.

At least I know they're going to be involved. For every 25 ingram gets you, you're going to get a 3 or a 4 or a 5. Do you start him every week? Does he drop 30 on your bench than you plug him and get 4? Those are the worst guys to own for me. 
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I won't touch Ingram where he's going either, but you're crazy if you'd rather have Perkins over him.  Especially when part of your rationale is the possibility that RB scores you 3-5 points.  

 
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