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Mark Ingram (2 Viewers)

Tommy Collins said:
I like Ingram, but it's pretty obvious Payton doesn't. Last year he was giving the ball to Hightower. This year it's AP. Now they traded AP, which was smart. But I think it's got more to do with the emergence of Kamara than it does for Ingram. I would be cautiously optimistic at this point. They knew what they had in Ingram when they signed AP. The same cannot be said for Kamara.
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While I do think Kamara sees an uptick, Ingram will benefit the most here taking back the plodding runs AP wasted and maybe making something of them. NO b comes a little less predictable too as both backs can catch now.

 
matttyl said:
For years the NO backfield wasn't just a 2 way split, it was 3 way.  That's what this season was also looking like.  But now it's back to a 2 man.  Somewhere either in this thread or a similar one I posted the total number of rushing yards, receptions, receiving yards and TDs that occur in total from the NO RBs, and they were very impressive totals each of the past few years.  If we're really back down to 2 man, even split right down the middle makes for two very good fantasy options.
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Could the Saints RBs be the new Devonta Freeman/Tevin Coleman?

 
matttyl said:
Each of the last 3 seasons he's either been a top 12 overall RB, or at least top 10 or so in PPG when he's missed time.  No, he's not a top 10 RB - that's not what I'm saying. 

If you go back and look at last season, you'll see that the RBs in New Orleans, combined, had over 2,500 yards total, 126 catches and 27 TDs.  In 2015 they had 1,450 rushing yards from their RBs, with 1,034 receiving yards from 122 catches and a total of 18 TDs.  In 2014 it was 1,580 rushing yards with another 882 receiving on 120 catches with 16 total TDs. It's always around or over 2,500 yards with 120+ receptions and somewhere in the vicinity of 20 TDs (more TDs since they got rid of Graham, and now they've lost Cooks).  What I mean is that it's a pretty big total pie.  Say Ingram gets 45% of it (I think that's fair, and that's giving a lot to both a rookie and to an over the hill Peterson).  That's 1,125 yards from scrimmage, 54 receptions and 9 TDs.  Week to week, though, he could be all over the place (just like any WR would be).  If I can get that after the 5th round in a 12 teamer, sign me up all day long. 
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Found it. 

 
matttyl said:
For years the NO backfield wasn't just a 2 way split, it was 3 way.  That's what this season was also looking like.  But now it's back to a 2 man.  Somewhere either in this thread or a similar one I posted the total number of rushing yards, receptions, receiving yards and TDs that occur in total from the NO RBs, and they were very impressive totals each of the past few years.  If we're really back down to 2 man, even split right down the middle makes for two very good fantasy options.
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Yea as long as they don't do something stupid like sign Pierre Thomas this week.

 
We Tigers said:
Ingram had 16 two weeks ago when AD had 9, and 18 in week 4 when AD had 4.  I think 16-18/week is likely, which is basically what Ingram has operated with his past two very successful seasons. 

Kamara gets a nice boost too.  I think he's now looking at 12+ touches a la week 4.  He's fully ready for the Sproles/Bush role.
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Yeah, you're making my point for me. AP's touches dropped by 7 from week 3 to 4 (he actually had 11 touches in week 3 counting the receptions), but Ingram's only went up by 2 while Kamara's tripled from 5 to 15. It's only a 1 week sample size, but still...

 
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humpback said:
Yeah, you're making my point for me. AP's touches dropped by 7 from week 3 to 4 (he actually had 11 touches in week 3 counting the receptions), but Ingram's only went up by 2 while Kamara's tripled from 5 to 15. It's only a 1 week sample size, but still...
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I'm more talking about carries.  Kamara isn't getting 10 receptions every week, but I do think he'll settle in at 5-7 rushes now. He will always be in the mix for 4-7 receptions, but those rushes give him additional stability.  

Ingram gets stability in that he won't have many more 7 or 8 carry games like the first two weeks of the season.  When you add in the fact that he's still always involved in the passing game even with Kamara ascending, you're looking at a guy with a really solid level of opportunities once again. 

 
We Tigers said:
I'm more talking about carries.  Kamara isn't getting 10 receptions every week, but I do think he'll settle in at 5-7 rushes now. He will always be in the mix for 4-7 receptions, but those rushes give him additional stability.  

Ingram gets stability in that he won't have many more 7 or 8 carry games like the first two weeks of the season.  When you add in the fact that he's still always involved in the passing game even with Kamara ascending, you're looking at a guy with a really solid level of opportunities once again. 
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How are you talking about carries when you quoted Ingram's touches? In any event, even if you only look at carries for some reason, AP dropped by 5 from weeks 3 to 4 and Ingram stayed exactly the same- clearly Kamara is the one who benefited from less AP last week.

This obviously is a bonus for Ingram, but I don't think it moves the needle much, and I think Kamara is the bigger beneficiary.

 
Why is no one talking about what Ingram has done over the past month? In his last 4 games he's averaging 21.3 ppg in ppr and is the RB5. What I found interesting is that in that same time span, at least from a fantasy perspective, NO's defense has allowed the 4th fewest ppg to RBs, 6th fewest to WRs, the fewest to TEs and 7th fewest to QBs. The defense has stepped up and NO can lean on their run game. The entire offense essentially goes through Ingram and Kamara now. 

 
SameSongNDance said:
Why is no one talking about what Ingram has done over the past month? In his last 4 games he's averaging 21.3 ppg in ppr and is the RB5. What I found interesting is that in that same time span, at least from a fantasy perspective, NO's defense has allowed the 4th fewest ppg to RBs, 6th fewest to WRs, the fewest to TEs and 7th fewest to QBs. The defense has stepped up and NO can lean on their run game. The entire offense essentially goes through Ingram and Kamara now. 
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He's been great, but the schedule/game flow was close to perfect and then he fumbled twice in the 4th qtr. last week. Fingers crossed that there's little fallout from that....

 
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humpback said:
He's been great, but the schedule/game flow was close to perfect and then he fumbled twice in the 4th qtr. last week. Fingers crossed that there's little fallout from that....
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This. 

I’m hoping this week goes similar to the game last year after he had some fumblitis. Think he ripped SF for like 170 and 2 IIRC. 

 
The game after Ingram lost a fumble last year, he was given 3 carries and lost smother fumble. Then was benched. Week after he went nuts against 49ers.

 
Ilov80s said:
The game after Ingram lost a fumble last year, he was given 3 carries and lost smother fumble. Then was benched. Week after he went nuts against 49ers.
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Thanks. I was too lazy to look up the specifics. I just remember him fumbling a couple times and got benched, everyone panicked, then he blew up on everyone’s bench. 

 
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Mark Ingram rushed 21 times for 131 yards and three touchdowns in the Saints' Week 10 win over the Bills.

Buffalo struggled to stop the Saints’ running game from the first snap, and Ingram took advantage with 43 yards and a touchdown on the opening drive. He kept up the strong running throughout the first half, and he added a second touchdown with a powerful three-yard run in the second quarter. After yet another long run helped set up an Alvin Kamara touchdown on the opening drive of the second half, a Saints takeaway set up Ingram for his third rushing score midway through the third quarter. It was a dominating performance from the entire running game and Ingram in particular. He will be a locked-in RB1 next week against Washington.
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Ingram always had the talent to be an RB1 in fantasy.  He just needed be in a featured back situation.  It's a travesty that it took Payton so long to realize it.  And guess what....the Saints are actually winning games by running the ball and playing good D.

 
fightingillini said:
Ingram always had the talent to be an RB1 in fantasy.  He just needed be in a featured back situation.  It's a travesty that it took Payton so long to realize it.  And guess what....the Saints are actually winning games by running the ball and playing good D.
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He’s still Peyton, you may be cursing him next week for using the kicker in goal line situations.

Tex

 
Yea but this has been the season we've been waiting for with Ingram. Saints winning makes me hope Peyton won't suddenly alter course.

 
Insein said:
Yea but this has been the season we've been waiting for with Ingram. Saints winning makes me hope Peyton won't suddenly alter course.
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Looks like they have decided to finally make a concerted effort to run the ball including inside the 5. They were gashing Buffalo yesterday at a 7+ ypc clip.

I would not be surprised if Brees is back next year on a 1 year deal with Jimmy G. coming back and they make another run at a SB.

 
RBM said:
Top 5 real life rb. All he ever needed was to be treated like a work horse. 
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fightingillini said:
Ingram always had the talent to be an RB1 in fantasy.  He just needed be in a featured back situation.  It's a travesty that it took Payton so long to realize it.  And guess what....the Saints are actually winning games by running the ball and playing good D.
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This meme has long been promoted by frustrated Ingram owners, but there isn't much to back it up.  Those of us who are long-time Saints fans can attest that every year since he has been the coach, Payton has made an effort to establish a running game and each year he has abandoned it in favor of Brees throwing it 50 times each weekend.  He didn't do this because he was stupidly unaware that Ingram should be an RB1 in fantasy if he just got more carries.  He did it because Brees throwing it was more effective than Ingram running it.  Finally in 2017, the offensive line is getting some holes for Ingram (Kamara too) and the running game is excellent.  This is the best the o-line has performed in run blocking since the days of Deuce McAllister.  Other than making a concerted effort to get some run blockers on the line (Ramczyk), this is still the same Sean Payton. 

I like Ingram.  He's a real high-effort guy, but he isn't good enough to run the ball 30 times a game behind a mediocre offensive line.  That's the circumstance he's faced until now.

 
Best RB combo since DeLo/ Stewart in CAR and they are using them correctly now to punish the opposing D. Since they both can catch and run, their subbing in and out doesn't tell the D whether it's a run or pass.

 
worrierking said:
This meme has long been promoted by frustrated Ingram owners, but there isn't much to back it up.  Those of us who are long-time Saints fans can attest that every year since he has been the coach, Payton has made an effort to establish a running game and each year he has abandoned it in favor of Brees throwing it 50 times each weekend.  He didn't do this because he was stupidly unaware that Ingram should be an RB1 in fantasy if he just got more carries.  He did it because Brees throwing it was more effective than Ingram running it.  Finally in 2017, the offensive line is getting some holes for Ingram (Kamara too) and the running game is excellent.  This is the best the o-line has performed in run blocking since the days of Deuce McAllister.  Other than making a concerted effort to get some run blockers on the line (Ramczyk), this is still the same Sean Payton. 

I like Ingram.  He's a real high-effort guy, but he isn't good enough to run the ball 30 times a game behind a mediocre offensive line.  That's the circumstance he's faced until now.
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IMO there's plenty to back it up. Ingram ran for a 5.1 ypc last year and 4.6 the year before, so let's not act like it wasn't working. For whatever reason, Payton seemingly went out of his way to split his workload with inferior RBs, right up until after week 4 when they dealt away AP.

 
worrierking said:
This meme has long been promoted by frustrated Ingram owners, but there isn't much to back it up.  Those of us who are long-time Saints fans can attest that every year since he has been the coach, Payton has made an effort to establish a running game and each year he has abandoned it in favor of Brees throwing it 50 times each weekend.  He didn't do this because he was stupidly unaware that Ingram should be an RB1 in fantasy if he just got more carries.  He did it because Brees throwing it was more effective than Ingram running it.  Finally in 2017, the offensive line is getting some holes for Ingram (Kamara too) and the running game is excellent.  This is the best the o-line has performed in run blocking since the days of Deuce McAllister.  Other than making a concerted effort to get some run blockers on the line (Ramczyk), this is still the same Sean Payton. 

I like Ingram.  He's a real high-effort guy, but he isn't good enough to run the ball 30 times a game behind a mediocre offensive line.  That's the circumstance he's faced until now.
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FYI, I have never owned Ingram in fantasy.  

I don't think the OL was ever the real problem.  As Humpback said, Ingram has had good YPC in previous year, but Payton somehow loved to split the load. 

The big difference is that NO defense is much better, hence better game scripts to get Ingram (and Kamara) the ball a lot.  So Payton is still splitting the load, but the load is about 2x as big as it has in the past.

 
fightingillini said:
FYI, I have never owned Ingram in fantasy.  

I don't think the OL was ever the real problem.  As Humpback said, Ingram has had good YPC in previous year, but Payton somehow loved to split the load. 

The big difference is that NO defense is much better, hence better game scripts to get Ingram (and Kamara) the ball a lot.  So Payton is still splitting the load, but the load is about 2x as big as it has in the past.
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This is the correct take. The Saints ran the ball 24 times in a row last week. It's not like the secret in the past was for Payton to "run the ball 24 times in a row" and he's just now getting it. It's not possible unless you have a defense and game script that makes it possible. 

 
Anyone worried Jonathan Williams is going to take some carries away from Ingram? I'm serious. You know Sean Peyton will do something crazy like that...

 
Insein said:
This is kind of true. He got 134 yds on 11 carries. You'd think they would give him the ball more.
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Hard to do with another great back on the team.  They both are getting utilized.  I'm sure Payton is more concerned with winning games than fantasy stats.

 
Easily one of the best RBs in the league.   Doesn't get his due.   Even now it seems like Kamara gets more press.  

 
SproutDaddy said:
Hard to do with another great back on the team.  They both are getting utilized.  I'm sure Payton is more concerned with winning games than fantasy stats.
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Well just saying he was losing that game because they couldn't run the ball and keep drives alive with Kamara. Brees went nuts to pull them back in the 4th.

 
worrierking said:
This meme has long been promoted by frustrated Ingram owners, but there isn't much to back it up.  Those of us who are long-time Saints fans can attest that every year since he has been the coach, Payton has made an effort to establish a running game and each year he has abandoned it in favor of Brees throwing it 50 times each weekend.  He didn't do this because he was stupidly unaware that Ingram should be an RB1 in fantasy if he just got more carries.  He did it because Brees throwing it was more effective than Ingram running it.  Finally in 2017, the offensive line is getting some holes for Ingram (Kamara too) and the running game is excellent.  This is the best the o-line has performed in run blocking since the days of Deuce McAllister.  Other than making a concerted effort to get some run blockers on the line (Ramczyk), this is still the same Sean Payton. 

I like Ingram.  He's a real high-effort guy, but he isn't good enough to run the ball 30 times a game behind a mediocre offensive line.  That's the circumstance he's faced until now.
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:loco:

Ingram has always been effective, had a solid ypc in virtually every season. It's hard to put up good numbers on 7 or 8 touches though

 
Negative game script kept his touches down. Beyond impressed he logged 155 and a touch on so few carries/catches. If Payton doesn’t want him next season I’m sure others will be standing in line. 

 
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